Integra DHC-80.3 - Page 114

Hi Guys and Gals

I currently have the DHC 80.1 and I have been following this thread for quite awhile now and contemplating when should I make the move to upgrade.

Just last week, the OSD on my 80.1 stopped working. No volume indicator. No setup menu. No instruction screen when the Audyssey mic is plugged in. I checked the settings and the cables and they are seem to be fine. Don't want to do a reset as it will be a pain to re-do the setup without OSD.

Just curious, has anyone encounter a problem like this in the past?

Thanks

I have the Integra 80.3 processor and 70.1 amp. My main home theater room is 5.1, using five of the 70.1's nine channels. The system is set up to also provide stereo audio to two other rooms via Zones 2 and 3 on the 80.3, using the remaining four channels on the 70.1.

My question is whether it is inadvisable for any reason to have all three rooms listening to audio at the same time. For example, listening to background music throughout the house. (I think) I know from the old days that it is possible to do damage to an amp or speakers by having too many speakers being driven at the same time.

I have a mix of 8- and 4-ohm speakers (including AR-LST's - 9 drivers in each box) and a powered sub in the main listening room. I believe the Zones 2 and 3 speakers are 8-ohm.

Am I risking problems if the speakers in all three rooms are run at once?
Edited by ed1 - 1/8/13 at 1:45pm

 Have you used the suggestions that I gave in the 80.1 forum?

So long as the amp is kept cool and isn't being driven into clipping, it should be fine.

Verify the impedance and sensitivity of your remote speakers. Efficient speakers would need minimal power to produce a reasonable sound level..

When driving separate zones, the amp is likely to draw more power (and get warmer) than if it were being used to drive a multi-channel surround-sound system. The surround-sound channels tend to draw less power on average than the front channels. Driving separate zones is the same as driving multiple pairs of front-channels.

On the other hand, using separate amps for the remote speakers would be a more conservative approach. You should verify that the wiring and volume controls for the remote speakers are of good quality and protected against accidental damage, since shorts would take out the amp being used for your HT, and not just the one driving the remote speaker system.

Thanks for your response, Selden.

The remote zones are using Polk 2-way ceiling mounted speakers. Their documentation indicates they are compatible with 8-ohm outputs with recommended power up to 125 watts per channel. (I believe the 70.1 puts out up to 145 watts/channel @ 8 ohms.) Efficiency is listed as 90db. Frequency response is 30hz to 26khz. There are no volume controls to those speakers other than the 80.3's Zones 2 and 3 volume buttons on the main front panel. The speakers are wired directly to the 70.1's output terminals. They are approximately 20 years old, so I don't know whether their efficiency/resistance has changed. They still sound fine.

I do not send high volume levels to the remotes and have never noticed the 70.1 amp getting very warm.

I am assuming from your post that I should be OK with all speakers on at once. But if anyone feels otherwise, please chime in.
Edited by ed1 - 1/8/13 at 2:45pm

On my DHC 80.3 I hooked up a set of balanced xlr wires to the amp and reran XT32. The trims came out 10 DB higher than with RCA interconnects? Instead of 74 db I got 82 DB? I have 4ohm speakers and Sunfire amp rated at 800 wpc @ 4 ohms.

Yes except for reseting the unit which I explained why I did not do it - Don't want to do a reset as it will be a pain to re-do the setup without OSD.

 Until my 80.2 failed completely, I was able to get things working by pulling the power cord & when plugging it back in do it while holding in the On / Standby SW.
This did not loose the config.

Hearing more and more of 80.2's failing (HDMI boards mainly, but I've read some other issues). Are people having issues with the 80.3 thus far?

I understand that the DHC-80.3 will not pass digital audio from an attached component to Zone 2 or 3 speakers. I have an Oppo Blu-ray player connected to my 80.3 via HDMI and, in some situations, I would like to be able to play a CD in the Oppo, or use the Oppo to play music from a networked computer via SMB, and have the audio pass to Zones 2 or 3. As the Oppo will provide a signal to both its HDMI and analog output terminals simultaneously, I would like to add an RCA cable from the Oppo to the 80.3's analog input terminal for the same connected device (the Oppo). But, I see this on page 96 of the 80.3's owner's manual:

"If signals are present at more than one input, the inputs will
be selected automatically in the following order of priority:
HDMI, digital, analog."

Does this mean that if I connect the Oppo to BOTH the HDMI and RCA inputs (for the same connected device) on the 80.3, that it will NOT be able to pass the analog signal to Zones 2 and 3?

Or, does it mean that it will select the HDMI signal to play audio in the main listening room, and at the same time select the signal from the RCA input to play the same music simultaneously in Zones 2 and 3?
Edited by ed1 - 1/9/13 at 5:54am

I doubt the Onkyo could simultaneously play two different inputs on teh same channel, if that's what you're getting at. But it does not look at every input and refuse to play, say, the sound from the TV when set to TV just because a BD player is connected on another input channel. You'd have to connect /assign the analog output to a separate input . So, for example, HDMI to DVD and analog to CD. THen play the CD channel through the other zones.

Yes, JHaz, I guess I was asking whether the 80.3 could simultaneously pass the HDMI signal from a connected device to the main listening room and the analog signal from the same device to Zones 2 and 3 if both signals were connected to the respective inputs on the 80.3 marked for the same connected device.

And, I see that your feeling is that it could NOT do that.

So, the only way to have all 3 rooms listening to the player simultaneously (while retaining HDMI signal input for the main room) is to connect the analog signal to the input terminals marked for a different connected device, correct?

I can't believe it but it worked. I also unplugged the TV as the HDMI input has ARC on it. I guess every electronic gear has some form of persistent information that can cause mayhem. Still don't know what cause this problem in the first place (could it be Darbee which I added between 80.3 and my TV and then removed/returned as what it did was not that significant for me)

Thanks Carl.

I wonder if that is in reference to a single input point. Example if you have HDMI and optical connected to Game, only the HDMI input will work no matter what is active. I made that inadvertent mistake initially when I connected an HDMI cable to the wrong input.
Edited by jima4a - 1/9/13 at 7:31pm

You are confirming what, unfortunately, seems to be the case - that using a single input channel of the 80.3, it is not possible to play a CD in both the main listening room and Zones 2 and 3 if an HDMI cable is connected from the player, even if both HDMI and RCA cables are connected to the 80.3's inputs on the channel for the player. It appears that the RCA cables need to be connected to a different input channel, requiring the selection of one active channel for the main listening room and another active channel for Zones 2 and 3.

That seems to be the only way to get the CD playing in all rooms at once.

Someone, please correct me if this is wrong. Thanks.

I solved this problem by using a different analog input for the same source, i.e. Bluray is connected by HDMI and then the RCA outs of the Bluray are connected to the Tape input. You then use Tape to play on the zones and Bluray in your main listening area.

Thanks, jongig. That seems to be the only way. I have already ordered the cables I need to do just that!

It just seems like a lot of steps to play music everywhere.

Why doesn't the DHC-80.3 allow the pass-through of digital signals from remote devices to the Zones? I believe that other receivers/processors can do this.

I don't use extra zones on the 80.3 (do with the 4310) but I thought it had extra DACs for that purpose. Kind of surprises me if it can't.

I'm sorry to belabor this issue, but I am still unsure of how the DHC-80.3 handles multiple signals coming in to the same source channel.

In addition to my Blu-ray player which I was referring to in the above discussion, I have a CD player connected in two ways. First, an optical cable is connected to an optical input on the 80.3, which was mapped to the TV/CD channel of the 80.3. This would play music into the main listening area, but not in the remote Zones.

So, when setting up the system, I added an RCA cable from the CD player to the 80.3's analog sound inputs marked for the TV/CD channel.

With both optical and RCA cables connected this way, I am able to select TV/CD and hear the audio from the CD player in both the main room and the remote Zones simultaneously.

With this behavior existing for the CD player signal(s), I am still hoping that I will be able to do the same with the Blu-ray player - connecting HDMI and RCA cables to the BD/DVD inputs on the 80.3 and hear a CD in the main listening room and the Zones simultaneously.

And, since this seems to work on the CD source channel, I am again wondering what is meant in the user manual by:

"If signals are present at more than one input, the inputs will
be selected automatically in the following order of priority:
HDMI, digital, analog."

I don't know whether the 80.3 is using the optical signal from the CD player for the main room and the analog signal for the Zones. Or, whether the optical signal to the main room immediately switches to analog the moment the Zone is turned on so that the 80.3 is transmitting only one analog signal. If that is the case, I wonder whether the analog signal has any processing by the 80.3 before being output to the main room.

Further thoughts on this, anyone?

the sun won't go supernova if you experiment and find out. I don't run zones so this stuff doesn't stick real well, but I thought most recent devices could send a stereo signal, whether digital or analog, to the second zone, but cannot decode, downmix and convert multichannel to send it to the second or third zones. Try unplugging your analog cables to the tv input and see if sound still gets to the second zone. try connecting the bdp to whatever input you want and see if it works. If it does, super. if not, then use a diffeerent input channel to get a stereo (analog if necessary) signal to send to the other zones.

The reason is that the DAC doesn't get power when the zones are on. I kind of agree with their decission because I like the unit using less power and for the most part I found it easy to live the way it's made.

jongig, if that is the case, does that mean that if both a digital and an RCA cable are connected from a CD or BD player to the same source input, then only the digital signal is used if only the main listening area is on and only the analog signal is used for both the main listening area and the zones if one or more zones are on? If so, then in the latter case Audessey would be OFF in the main listening area, correct?.

I have both optical and RCA connected from my CD player to the 80.3's TV/CD input. When this player is on for both the main listening area and a zone, the Audessey/Dynamic EQ lights remain ON in the 80.3 display for the main listening area.
Edited by ed1 - 1/11/13 at 10:28am

FWIW, it was always my impression that the issue relates to additional software (and hardware, I suppose) implementation that would be required to decode a multichannel input then convert it to multichannel analog for the main zone, while simultaneously decoding the multichannel input, creating a remix to two channe, then using separate DAC to convert to analog for the second zone. just not enough dacs and decoders available. AFAIK. None of which necessarily controls whatever logic the system uses when it "hears" input on SPDIF and/or HDMI and/or analog all on the same input channel.

I have to relate to mine and how it’s used and maybe that will help. When I’m listening to BD in the “main-area” and then want to listen to that same source in either of the two zones I can and here is how.

The main zone is setup the way we’d expect and you choose BD to listen to BD. In zone-2 I choose “Tape” to listen to BD. Of course you can change names to make it easy and on the zone remotes I have the tape input labeled as BD. I probably don't need to mention this but the analog side of the BD is connected to the Tape input of the Integra.

It may be that if you connect the analog side and the digital side of a DVD player to the DVD inputs of the Integra that you may get analog out to the zones and digital out to the mains but I’m not sure. I have a Pioneer DVD player with digital or analog but it has a switch and will not do both simultaneously.

I am curious to answer your question and in the next week if I get a chance I’ll give it a try.

I have played with my system and I use the zones very heavily. I have a multi zone amp and have incorporated zone-2 into several areas of the house, garage, pool, and deck. Zone-3 I have for bedrooms and bathrooms. I can control zones on/off remotely by turning on the amp using a Insteon switch and then volume control knobs in the rooms. The 12-volt signal from the Integra is the master and that way zone amps are not left on.
Edited by jongig - 1/11/13 at 1:10pm

I do not use multi zones, but just to clarify one point. The prepro will convert a stereo analog signal via a-d, and it can thereby apply Audyssey to it. This is not true of Mch analog. So, I think you may be leaping to conclusions. Also, am I wrong in feeling that one cannot have both a digital and an analog source set up for the same Integra input? I thought for both a digital and analog connection from the same device, e.g., a player, you had to use two different input sources on the Integra side of things. I really does not matter to me and how I use my system, but I found what you said curious.

fitzcarldo215, I can confirm that I have both an optical cable and an RCA cable connected to the "TV/CD" inputs. When only the optical was connected, there was no audio sent to the zones. When the RCA cable is added, audio is sent to both the main listening area and the zones and the Audessey light remains on.

This would be consistent with the 80.3 using ONLY the analog signal if, as you say, it is converting the stereo analog signal to digital and applying Audeysey.

As soon as I receive the cables I ordered, I will try the same approach with HDMI and RCA from the Blu-ray player. The question I am having is whether the dual cable set up will send audio to both the main listening area and the zones, yet leave the HDMI connection unimpaired for Blu-rays/DVDs for the main listening area when desired. I am curious as to whether the main listening area will be receiving audio over the HDMI or the RCA connection. I'm not really sure that I can determine which would be active for the main listening area if the 80.3 can convert stereo analog to digital and apply Audessey.

I appreciate everyone's input on this.

   I am not sure how revlent my comment is, as I am not using "Zones." I use my Laser Disk on the "Game" input. The sound portion of the input
is through "Optical." All was well until I tried to play an older LD that did not have a digital track. I had to use the "RCA" connection, but it did not
work until I disconnected the "Optical" connection. I basically leave the "RCA" cables connected & remove the "Optical" cable when trying to
play one of the older disks. The fact that you see the Audyssey light on may mean that it may only be being used in the main area.

I have mine in a rack using a Midatlantic custom shelf and face plate but I noticed they make a rack kit for the 80.3.

Has anyone used the rack mount kit and is it a better idea, looks or otherwise? My second thought is heat and maybe without the shelf
the unit may stay cooler. My 9.8 had a HDMI board go bad and since I always noticed the unit was hot I thought it
might be due to heat. My closet has forced air cooling but maybe I should do more for the 80.3. I'd also like to see a picture of the
unit from the front in a rack with the rack mount kit.

   I bought the rack kit for the 1st Integra (A 9.9) From there I transfered it to a 80.1 then to 80.2 & 80.3. The kit numbers changed, but the original kit worked. (I don't know what the diff was)
The Integras are rack size themselves, so very little of the mounts show. I built the rack myself, so how it would look in your rack, you will have to visualize yourself. On top of the 80.3 is my
HD Radio adapter & my Darblet.
  There is two inches of space above & below the 80.3. Below is two Sumo amps that drives my four Polk 10B surround speakers. There are two 4 inch muffin fans on either side at the bottom for cooling.
 

I'm not an 80.3 owner, but I know my way around AVR zone operations.

Earlier, when you listed THIS: "If signals are present at more than one input, the inputs will
be selected automatically in the following order of priority:
HDMI, digital, analog."

I believe they are/were simply referring to the MAIN zone...should have zero affect on the reality that the 2nd and 3rd zones will only accept analog inputs.

Basically, it's an "unadjustable" order of use with main zone digital inputs (which again, really doesn't affect the way the other zones operate).

Now, with higher end Denon AVR's you can "force" a given input type to the top of this prioritization list (EXP: you can choose: DIGITAL/ANALOG/HDMI to be first), or you can leave it set to "AUTO" which seems to operate very similarly to how I would guess your Integra is running the show (including the supplied order of importance). In this functionality, it will prioritize the MAIN zone as indicated in the manual, but will also (as I would imagine is also described in the manual, somewhere) ONLY play analog inputs to zones 2 and 3.

SO, if indeed you connect a given components digital and analog inputs to the same Integra input- so long as the connected device outputs both analog and digital signals simultaneously- you should have no problem playing it in both the main and secondary zones...BUT, you should almost certainly expect a reverb/delay between the main and secondary zones due to how the DSP operates on either (I cannot speak for the Integra but I know the Audyssey applied to the main room of Denon AVR's causes the sound to arrive later than the zones not being EQ'd).

I'm fairly confident with this explanation, but if someone has a different idea, I'm all ears.


And by the way, the reason for my visit: is there any word on an 11.X channel (and perhaps digital inputs to the zones, lmao) replacement for this anytime soon...been scouring the thread and haven't found anything.


thanks,

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 1/16/13 at 7:01am