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Integra DHC-80.3 - Page 23

post #661 of 4252
Alright, alright, I probably will eventually get a 4k projector. But it will more likely be that I bought whatever I bought to get other features and not the 4k feature. Remains to be "seen" yet how 4k performs with woven screens. I mean, like, won't all those little pixels fall through?
post #662 of 4252
The move to 4k is a natural answer. And movie theaters need to offer something "special" that most people don't have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The driving force behind upscaling SD was the increasingly larger "hi-def" displays that were being sold. Simply feeding a 480i image to a larger 1920 x 1080 display causes blockiness and scaling to the additional pixels restores diagonals and non-straight lines to what they should be. Before the displays went to higher resolution, they just went bigger. Remember the first rear projection TVs and how they were much worse from standard TV viewing distances?


Before we had speakers behind us, placing some there was a no-brainer. Most rooms have four walls, and the rear wall was speaker-less. And once the bullet/arrow/hand phaser goes past our noggins, we are already focusing on the next one to be fired. This goes to the crux of DSX and other "additional" front speakers; they are up front where our angular discrimination is more precise.

Theresa touched on it up the page - display size. Apple's "retina display" feature is based on pixel density at the limit of the human eye's ability to see more information. At the present size, more pixels simply would not be seen. In our theaters, we are already maxed out on screen size; they are not going to double from here. So twice as many pixels ... even with 4k source content ... will not be seen.

From markus767's sig - "In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole, the "industry" will exert themselves mightily to make this a matter of believing because if they let it be decided by science .. the "eyes" have it or more correctly, don't have it .. no one but those with very, very large theaters would buy 4k.

Jeff

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Keith,

My point is that most of us won't see increased resolution even after content is 4K. Most of us already have as big a display as can be used ... physically and/or aesthetically .. in our spaces. And our seating is in place, partly with consideration of how close we can sit and not see pixel structure, but probably in most cases if we sit any closer, we will need to turn our heads to see the limits of the display.

So, given that we won't be 1) moving to larger displays, 2) sitting closer to the size we have now, and 3) our eyes can't see any more picture detail ... at display sizes and viewing distances ... most of us won't see increased resolution even after content is 4K.

Jeff
post #663 of 4252
Why is the upscaling to 4K important in any way? When we update our displays to 4K won't they provide upscaling within? I would rather my display to the upscaling.
post #664 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Alright, alright, I probably will eventually get a 4k projector. But it will more likely be that I bought whatever I bought to get other features and not the 4k feature. Remains to be "seen" yet how 4k performs with woven screens. I mean, like, won't all those little pixels fall through?

This is one of the current problems with 4k and some PJ screens. The little pixels fall through the little holes and all you get is a blank screen. It's a very detailed blank screen of course but it can make the movie hard to follow. Some people are suggesting resolving it by filling in every other little hole on the screen with a special mastic, but it's a time-consuming job for sure, and ultimately it downreses the screen back to 2k which sort of defeats the objective. Another possible solution being proposed by THX is to attach very small hooks to the pixels - in the source equipment - so small they will be invisible to the viewer, but they will grab onto the little holes in the screen and prevent the new, little pixels from falling through. It's still in the prototype stage - they can get the little hooks to attach to the little holes - but getting them to let go again is a pig, and it's creating motion blur.
post #665 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

Why is the upscaling to 4K important in any way? When we update our displays to 4K won't they provide upscaling within? I would rather my display to the upscaling.

It depends on which AVR or source equipment or screen you have. The current 4k upscaler in the latest Onkyo models uses the Marvell QDEO chip which is currently reckoned to be one of the best, if not *the* best in the business, so it is likely to do the job better than the upscaler in the screen itself.

In fact, the latest Onkyos' VP abilities rival those in the best dedicated Video Processors according to the review in the current issue of Home Theater Magazine - apparently it aced even the toughest tests on the test discs.
post #666 of 4252
RS-232 Codes and IP Control Codes:

Look thru the manual and can not find any of this info. i will be working on programming my bitwise controller so that I may control this, but can not track down any of this info. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also any thoughts on preference of rs232 vs Ip?

Thanks in advance
post #667 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It depends on which AVR or source equipment or screen you have. The current 4k upscaler in the latest Onkyo models uses the Marvell QDEO chip which is currently reckoned to be one of the best, if not *the* best in the business, so it is likely to do the job better than the upscaler in the screen itself.

In fact, the latest Onkyos' VP abilities rival those in the best dedicated Video Processors according to the review in the current issue of Home Theater Magazine - apparently it aced even the toughest tests on the test discs.

The Video Processing in the 80.3/3009/5009 is the aboslute best I have seen to date in a Receiver/Pre-Pro.
post #668 of 4252
Does it clean up streaming video well?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

The Video Processing in the 80.3/3009/5009 is the aboslute best I have seen to date in a Receiver/Pre-Pro.
post #669 of 4252
I finally bit the bullet and bought the 80.3. How would I use the 12 volt triggers to turn on my amplifier? The amp does not have a built in trigger. Thanks, Don
post #670 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaudio View Post

I finally bit the bullet and bought the 80.3. How would I use the 12 volt triggers to turn on my amplifier? The amp does not have a built in trigger. Thanks, Don

http://www.xantech.com/Controls/Cont...Switchers/AC1/

Pay attention to current draw.
post #671 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

There is additional gain from collocating the subs. +6dB I think. Mid-wall placement front-and-back (or side/side) produces the smoothest LF response possible with "two" subs. So, four subs set up like I have it produces better performance than one in each of the four corners.

Jeff

Thanks

Terry
post #672 of 4252
I'm sure that there are those that would argue that I have it backwards.

Jeff
post #673 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

There is additional gain from collocating the subs. +6dB I think. Mid-wall placement front-and-back (or side/side) produces the smoothest LF response possible with "two" subs. So, four subs set up like I have it produces better performance than one in each of the four corners.

Jeff

This is totally room dependent as to what kind of response you'll see, there is no right answer until it's actually tried. The room will determine where the subs will sound best, not just where they should be.

It's all in the room. It took me almost a week to get my 10 dialed in properly with my DCX. I just sold 2 of the 18's for a couple new Mach 5 21's once Mark gets them to me. Generally 4 subs in 4 corners will only smooth out response and "stacked" pair will have much more SPL but again, it's totally room dependent. I'm hoping the pro kit will get them dialed in even more. I'm fairly happy with the XT32 but theres much room for improvement.
post #674 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

Why is the upscaling to 4K important in any way? When we update our displays to 4K won't they provide upscaling within? I would rather my display to the upscaling.

Yes, but as per normal these days which device scales better? It is nice to have two options. And who knows, at the end of the day the Marvell chip could be better. Guess we will SEE.
post #675 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Yes, but as per normal these days which device scales better? It is nice to have two options. And who knows, at the end of the day the Marvell chip could be better. Guess we will SEE.

Uh, let's see.... there is currently a $700 difference between buying the 80.3 and getting a new Onkyo 5508. For the $700 I get 4K upscaling when 4k displays in any affordable form and sources to feed it (other than PC) are at least 2 years out. So, we have 4K upsampling when it isn't fully realized. Not, to mention, that displays and the sources themselves will offer upscaling and will do so likely better than this chip when 4K is ready for primetime. Finally 4K will almost certainly have a new HDMI revision associated with it which the 80.3 will not be able to process.

Yeah, so it would be a waste of $700...
post #676 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

Uh, let's see.... there is currently a $700 difference between buying the 80.3 and getting a new Onkyo 5508. For the $700 I get 4K upscaling when 4k displays in any affordable form and sources to feed it (other than PC) are at least 2 years out. So, we have 4K upsampling when it isn't fully realized. Not, to mention, that displays and the sources themselves will offer upscaling and will do so likely better than this chip when 4K is ready for primetime. Finally 4K will almost certainly have a new HDMI revision associated with it which the 80.3 will not be able to process.

Yeah, so it would be a waste of $700...

current hdmi 1.4 is capable of 4K res's. as well as all the cables.
post #677 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

This is totally room dependent as to what kind of response you'll see, there is no right answer until it's actually tried. The room will determine where the subs will sound best, not just where they should be.

It's all in the room. It took me almost a week to get my 10 dialed in properly with my DCX. I just sold 2 of the 18's for a couple new Mach 5 21's once Mark gets them to me. Generally 4 subs in 4 corners will only smooth out response and "stacked" pair will have much more SPL but again, it's totally room dependent. I'm hoping the pro kit will get them dialed in even more. I'm fairly happy with the XT32 but theres much room for improvement.

If your room has 90 degree angles with parallel walls and floor/ceiling, then there is science that shows that I am right.
post #678 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

Uh, let's see.... there is currently a $700 difference between buying the 80.3 and getting a new Onkyo 5508. For the $700 I get 4K upscaling when 4k displays in any affordable form and sources to feed it (other than PC) are at least 2 years out. So, we have 4K upsampling when it isn't fully realized. Not, to mention, that displays and the sources themselves will offer upscaling and will do so likely better than this chip when 4K is ready for primetime. Finally 4K will almost certainly have a new HDMI revision associated with it which the 80.3 will not be able to process.

Yeah, so it would be a waste of $700...

If one is in the market for a high quality/high value pre/pro, and 4k upsampling comes along for the ride, then that's great.

Jeff
post #679 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

If your room has 90 degree angles with parallel walls and floor/ceiling, then there is science that shows that I am right.

Nope sorry man, it's totally room dependent. You seem to think your right about everything but you've never probably even set yours up properly.
Come see us in the DIY section and we'll see how far you get

The room is everything, some people just have bad rooms and nothing will sound good or be able to be setup properly. After sub crawling, you may find that to smooth out response, you may need a sub in the middle of the room. If it's not a perfect room (most peoples aren't) SP, Type of subs (ported, sealed, IB, horn), phase, timing, proper EQ will all come into play. It's not just a matter of "well they should go here" doesn't always work.
post #680 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Nope sorry man, it's totally room dependent. You seem to think your right about everything but you've never probably even set yours up properly.

This is the A/V Science forum and here's mine..
Quote:


Come see us in the DIY section and we'll see how far you get

More people in one place fumbling around and not utilizing research in their solutions does not make them right. You might want to put me on ignore, 'cause that's where you just went.
post #681 of 4252
Just FYI, for those interested in the Onkyo 5509, it will be released in the US. I have it confirmed form Onkyo headquarters in Europe. They apparently just made this decision. I will be adjusting my order for a new pre/pro accordingly. Outside of all of the features, the 5509 is also a really nice looking piece of AV gear.
post #682 of 4252
Thanks, that's good news!
post #683 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

I currently have the Integra Research RDC-7 Processor.
That is why I have read all 20 plus pages on this Thread.
Just purchased the Runco VX-11d to replace my older Runco VX5000ci.
So looking to up date the now older Integra RDC-7.

The reason I would consider up dating to the 80.3 Integra is this.
The new audio formats.
Especially the 7.1 which would be great.
In my case I suppose that would be 7.4 since I have 4-subs.

Any of the Pros here care to comment on the surround steering abilities of the 80.3.
That is what I really am interested in.
Sound in a movie that is switched to each individual speaker.
If any of you can enlighten me on that with this unit it would be greatly appreciate.

Terry

Not sure what you are asking about. With Blu-ray and Mch SACD, there are discrete source channels which the prepro just transmits to the appropriate channels. That's how I use it. There are also a plethora of sound modes to synthetically expand stereo or 5.1 to 7.2. You can also use Audyssey DSX or its Dolby or DTS counterparts to go to 9.2. You can also use THX if you prefer. But, personally, I prefer to just listen to the source as recorded in 2.0, 5.0, 5.1 or 7.1.
post #684 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

This is the A/V Science forum and here's mine..

More people in one place fumbling around and not utilizing research in their solutions does not make them right. You might want to put me on ignore, 'cause that's where you just went.

O wow a science paper LOL. Just proves you got nothing my man, first hand experience trumps "science papers" every time. Go post this on the DIY thread and see what you get. We only have sub designers, room experts and a ton of people that lead the field in subsonic's. Let me know how your paper you googled works out for you LOL
post #685 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post

Just FYI, for those interested in the Onkyo 5509, it will be released in the US. I have it confirmed form Onkyo headquarters in Europe. They apparently just made this decision. I will be adjusting my order for a new pre/pro accordingly. Outside of all of the features, the 5509 is also a really nice looking piece of AV gear.

Thats cool! Just seems like a sneaky move on onkyos part. seem like they wanted to get some 80.3's in the wild before they released it.
Either way, that good news for everyone. I would have taken the 5509 over the 80.3 if just for styling reasons alone.
post #686 of 4252

I currently have the Integra Research RDC-7 Processor.
That is why I have read all 20 plus pages on this Thread.
Just purchased the Runco VX-11d to replace my older Runco VX5000ci.
So looking to up date the now older Integra RDC-7.

The reason I would consider up dating to the 80.3 Integra is this.
The new audio formats.
Especially the 7.1 which would be great.
In my case I suppose that would be 7.4 since I have 4-subs.

Any of the Pros here care to comment on the surround steering abilities of the 80.3.
That is what I really am interested in.
Sound in a movie that is switched to each individual speaker.
If any of you can enlighten me on that with this unit it would be greatly appreciate.

Terry
post #687 of 4252
I had a RDC-7 then an Onkyo 885. The 885 had all lossless codecs, but made me stop listening to CD's. Now I have the Onkyo 5508, twin sister of the 80.2, and I am again listening to my CD collection.

Jeff
post #688 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

O wow a science paper LOL. Just proves you got nothing my man, first hand experience trumps "science papers" every time. Go post this on the DIY thread and see what you get. We only have sub designers, room experts and a ton of people that lead the field in subsonic's. Let me know how your paper you googled works out for you LOL

Grow up FFS.
post #689 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post

[

Any of the Pros here care to comment on the surround steering abilities of the 80.3.
That is what I really am interested in.
Sound in a movie that is switched to each individual speaker.
If any of you can enlighten me on that with this unit it would be greatly appreciate.

Terry

It's not referred to as "steering" anymore. In the days of Dolby Pro Logic that would have been a good question. But steering went out with matrixed surrounds. All channels these days are discrete ... no pumping, amigo.

Jeff
post #690 of 4252
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Grow up FFS.

Na not feeling it.
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