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Star Wars comparison *PIX* and *VID* - Page 2

post #31 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post


I understand where you coming from. I am comparing basically what PQ upgrade the blu-ray is from the non-anamorphic original theatrical DVD that some claiming that these are the preferred version and that playing them on a upscaling DVD will make it look "not that bad".

Harmy's version is the best compromise.
post #32 of 282
Xylon, I love your threads and I am all about screenshots and there is no subjectivity involved! Yes the blurays are a massive jump compared to non-anamophic dvd's which I believe had 525i masters if they were from the laserdisc. Is there an HD print anywhere of the unaltered original trilogy?

In my eyes the dvd's back from 2004 are such a big jump the non-anamorphic dvd's are unwatchable. Then again I quite buying non-anamorphic dvd's back in the late 90's.
post #33 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

I understand where you coming from. I am comparing basically what PQ upgrade the blu-ray is from the non-anamorphic original theatrical DVD that some claiming that these are the preferred version and that playing them on a upscaling DVD will make it look "not that bad".

I tried watching the non-anamorphic 2006 originals and even with my Oppo BDP-93 which does an excellent job of scaling and deinterlacing, I found them unwatchable even on my 60" display from nine feet back. Now, if I watch them on my 20" monitor from three feet back, they aren't too bad (though still not good really).
post #34 of 282
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

Xylon, I love your threads and I am all about screenshots and there is no subjectivity involved! Yes the blurays are a massive jump compared to non-anamophic dvd's which I believe had 525i masters if they were from the laserdisc. Is there an HD print anywhere of the unaltered original trilogy?

In my eyes the dvd's back from 2004 are such a big jump the non-anamorphic dvd's are unwatchable. Then again I quite buying non-anamorphic dvd's back in the late 90's.

None as far as broadcast HD.
post #35 of 282
Yea there is no HD master of the unaltered original theatrical trilogy ever broadcast they have all been from the same master as the Blu-rays were taken from and that is the 2004 se.
post #36 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

Xylon, I love your threads and I am all about screenshots and there is no subjectivity involved! Yes the blurays are a massive jump compared to non-anamophic dvd's which I believe had 525i masters if they were from the laserdisc. Is there an HD print anywhere of the unaltered original trilogy?

In my eyes the dvd's back from 2004 are such a big jump the non-anamorphic dvd's are unwatchable. Then again I quite buying non-anamorphic dvd's back in the late 90's.

Harmy recreated the originals in 720p : http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/top...T/topic/12905/
post #37 of 282
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

Xylon, I love your threads and I am all about screenshots and there is no subjectivity involved! Yes the blurays are a massive jump compared to non-anamophic dvd's which I believe had 525i masters if they were from the laserdisc. Is there an HD print anywhere of the unaltered original trilogy?

In my eyes the dvd's back from 2004 are such a big jump the non-anamorphic dvd's are unwatchable. Then again I quite buying non-anamorphic dvd's back in the late 90's.

I just can't condemn the PQ outright of the blu-ray because it just look so damn good on my setup. That's why pictures and video comparison are there now to provide others to decide for himself/herself . Through the years the screenshot comparisons posted here at AVS has been an invaluable source.

The only way most fans will be satisfied regardless of the PQ upgrade is that when they get the TE version remastered in 4K fanboys approved. I was tempted to go to that path posting every scene where I think it ruined their childhood memories If I did that it will take weeks just to finish one "review".

For now this is what we have and overall the Star Wars PQ did not offend me.

Maybe when I get to Empire Strikes Back . . .
post #38 of 282
Wow. Just when I thought Xylon was surely dead or kidnapped he comes back and starts kicking ass with screenshot comparisons.

The pumped up colors and unnecessary cgi additions killed this release for me, and that was back in 2004. On the bright side I'm sure Adywan or some other fan with tons of time can reconstruct a proper version with the elements here.
post #39 of 282
I agree these are the best the original trilogy has ever looked. The problem is Conan the Destroyer has a better looking bluray. When an insignificant film like that clearly outdoes episodes 4-6 in terms of clarity and detail on the screen we have a problem! For the amount of money Fox and Lucas will make on this there is no excuse for recycling 7 year old dvd masters! I remember posters saying they were done in HD to match the quality of the prequel trilogy. Bottom Line is the prequel trilogy clearly outclasses episodes 4-6 which IMO look very average at best. 4K would be needed to bring them on line with episodes 1-3. I guess we will wait for the 3-D release in 2015-17 to get IMO decent versions of the original trilogy.
post #40 of 282
If they did a 4k scan of the SE's (not 2004) I would buy them only if Lowry are not involved and there is no nasty floating "grain" I have no hope of the TE's becoming available
post #41 of 282
Thread Starter 
post #42 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

Harmy's version is the best compromise.

Yeah it is.
post #43 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

I guess we will wait for the 3-D release in 2015-17 to get IMO decent versions of the original trilogy.

That would be my guess as well.

I would certainly hope they do a fresh scan for those (not that I plan on seeing them anyway). Doing a 3D conversion from a 1920:1080 master of a film that was shot in scope is just ridiculous. I hope they go 4K, I couldn't care less if that's technically giving the original trilogy better treatment than the stuck-in-2K prequels.

A 4K scan of the OT could be used to make an ultimate edition blu-ray set that not only includes the 3D conversion, but the '97 SE and - with the proper restoration - the original versions.
post #44 of 282
+1
post #45 of 282
Well we might not even see that in the future if TPM bombs at cinemas next Feb - I think they said they won't do any more if it bombs.
post #46 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

The dvd's which are some of the most stunning the format has ever released and hold up far better then they should when comparing them to the blurays.

I do agree with that. The DVDs look very good for DVDs.
post #47 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Wow. Just when I thought Xylon was surely dead or kidnapped he comes back and starts kicking ass with screenshot comparisons.

The pumped up colors and unnecessary cgi additions killed this release for me, and that was back in 2004. On the bright side I'm sure Adywan or some other fan with tons of time can reconstruct a proper version with the elements here.

Not to take away from the thread, yet I must say I am happy to see Xylon walking the halls of AVS again. Glad you are back in action brother.

Now where in the hell have you been and if you were in the hospital you could have had the nurse post for you.

Thanks for the screen caps, checking them out now.
post #48 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

Well we might not even see that in the future if TPM bombs at cinemas next Feb - I think they said they won't do any more if it bombs.

I won't be going to see any of these films in 3-D. The 97 SE's were a brilliant fluke and did far better than anticipated and Lucas made $millions off it. I am all for 3-D if the film was originally shot that way. Post production 3-D I have rarely seen ever look really good. It is like colorizing a B&W movie.
post #49 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

I won't be going to see any of these films in 3-D. The 97 SE's were a brilliant fluke and did far better than anticipated and Lucas made $millions off it. I am all for 3-D if the film was originally shot that way. Post production 3-D I have rarely seen ever look really good. It is like colorizing a B&W movie.

Yeh true but up until this point we haven't seen a converted 3D movie that has the same amount of big work put into it like TPM or Titanic (also next year).

If James Cameron thinks his Titanic conversion is good well then it probably is..

But yes the new-at-cinemas conversions like HP7 Part 2 need to die
post #50 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

Yeh true but up until this point we haven't seen a converted 3D movie that has the same amount of big work put into it like TPM or Titanic (also next year).

If James Cameron thinks his Titanic conversion is good well then it probably is..

But yes the new-at-cinemas conversions like HP7 Part 2 need to die

Thing I fear with post-production 3D is that people will look like those lifesize cardboard cut-outs used for advertising.. . Alice in Wonderland 3D, which is probably the best of the post-production conversions, still looks fake 3D. Especially in the beginning prior to her going to wonderland, you see rows of people ... they all look like carboard cut-outs but on different planes... I'm not sure how Titanic is going to look much different.
post #51 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

something horribly digital is going on in that Tatooine shot with the droids.

I admit that stuff doesn't look exceptional on ANH.
post #52 of 282
Now that I have looked at Xylon's videos on my 1080p computer, they appear very accurate to what I saw this evening in my HT.
post #53 of 282
Great work Xylon! Always wait for your reviews/comparison pix!

It's obvious that for the time being, these are perhaps the best looking and best sounding versions of Star Wars available anywhere.

However with the upcoming 3d re-releases in the theater and the fact that the 40th anniversary of the original movie release is coming up that George will come out with another definitive version.

I sincerely hope that he goes the Blade Runner route and offers all versions of the movies but hopefully with updated 4k or 8k visual remasters and the super 6.1 DTS HD-MA audio.

However I don't think Lucas will ever release the unaltered versions in such high quality because the majority of star wars fans would copy and upload them and share them as many times as possible and only watch those unaltered versions than the versions he wants to be the definitive ones, and he's trying his darndest to make sure that people forget all about them.

It's classic propaganda. The longer Lucas holds out, the less people remember the unaltered theatrical versions and the more people grow up only knowing the special edition or DVD versions which are also always shown on Spike etc.

I honestly don't mind some changes such as making the lightsabers glow much better or accurately, ewok's blinking, better explosions or "blaster" effects. But when you change key lines or fundamentally alter how a character is perceived it's ridiculous. Or the addition of useless CG characters or scenes that look out of place.

Myself, I've watched the re-releases and special edition versions so much, I've almost forgotten what watching the original versions unaltered was like. Here's hoping a final 4k or 8k definitive version comes out with the unaltered versions, just as a final nod to the die-hard star wars fans.
post #54 of 282
I wouldn't get your hopes up - I have a feeling that there won't be another release of Star Wars (any) for many many years. We all know how long it took for it to come to DVD. Well it has taken just as long to get to Blu-ray - so I'm sure that Lucas will want to make us think that this Blu-ray release is the 'best' version available for some time yet.

I don't think we will see another mini-release like the 2006 DVDs of the OUT - as it's pretty obvious that this Blu-ray release has been somewhat of a rush job in many areas, so for Fox/Lucasfilm to release the untouched OT on Blu-ray really isn't on the cards since it would actually require a good amount of effort to make it look any good (rescans, whatever). If they can't even do that for Lucas's preferred newest Star Wars - then there is no way in hell they will do it for the OUT.

Besides, I'm sure in Lucas's eyes the OUT is 'dead an buried'.

The only foreseeable release I can see any time within the next few years is a 3D one - and that might not even happen as I mentioned before.
post #55 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by NagysAudio View Post

The reason why most 3D conversions fail is because they're done by low forehead borderline retards. The same uneducated/talent-less fools responsible for idiotic CGI cartoons like the Star Wars prequel trilogy, X-Men: First Class, and countless other films from 1999-present.

No. 3D conversions fail because you can't really fake 3D information with a 2D plane. You just can't. I work with clients who ask me all the time if I can convert 2D to 3D for the final output, and my answer is always no. While I don't like it, there are many talented people who work on this kind of stuff, some of whom are friends of mine. They do it because they are forced to through their job. They don't do it for the art of the craft, they do it for the money. That and when you work for someone like Lucas, you typically do what he says or you don't work in the industry anymore. We all have bills to pay, but for you to blatantly insult those who are trying to make a living and pursue their career is unwarranted, especially when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
post #56 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post
I agree these are the best the original trilogy has ever looked. The problem is Conan the Destroyer has a better looking bluray. When an insignificant film like that clearly outdoes episodes 4-6 in terms of clarity and detail on the screen we have a problem! For the amount of money Fox and Lucas will make on this there is no excuse for recycling 7 year old dvd masters! I remember posters saying they were done in HD to match the quality of the prequel trilogy. Bottom Line is the prequel trilogy clearly outclasses episodes 4-6 which IMO look very average at best. 4K would be needed to bring them on line with episodes 1-3. I guess we will wait for the 3-D release in 2015-17 to get IMO decent versions of the original trilogy.
Yes there is

they want you to buy it again later on
post #57 of 282
20th Century Fox showed 10mins from Titanic 3D at ComicCon.

It made quite an impression apparently:

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=81022

Yeah...

"Opening on the crowd scene in the docks as the ship is boarding, the most noticeable thing about the footage is how much detail there is. When a film is converted to 3D, objects are rotoscoped and separated out onto layers. Ordinarily there are only a few layers in a shot, but with Titanic, it would seem that stereographers have put every single object onto a separate plane. The effect is astonishing - and completely justifies a 3D version of the film."

I'm looking forward to it
post #58 of 282
I suspect within the next five years we'll see a lot of new scans in general as part of the home video business model is and always was to find ways to re-sell the same movie over and over again to the customer. With DVD, sometimes they could get away with this by just using new extras, but since Blu-ray's main focus is PQ and AQ, the studios will have no choice but to do new scans if they want to sell the same movie yet again. Recycling older masters with EE and DNR I don't believe with work for them.
post #59 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

With DVD, sometimes they could get away with this by just using new extras, but since Blu-ray's main focus is PQ and AQ, the studios will have no choice but to do new scans if they want to sell the same movie yet again. Recycling older masters with EE and DNR I don't believe with work for them.

Predator UHE? Raging Bull? Warner's box-o-crap re-releases? Also The Phantom Menace shows us that new transfer still doesn't necessarily mean it'll be good, even from the major studios. I can see the following as a realistic scenario for some movies:

1st Blu-ray release: from ancient, crappy HD master
|
| two years later
v
2nd Blu-ray release: repackaging, maybe new extras
|
| three years later
v
3rd Blu-ray release: new transfer, but it's been ruined for some reason or other (DNR)
|
| five years later
v
4th Blu-ray release: finally from a good transfer (if lucky)

To keep on topic, I'll be passing on Star Wars for this round. Maybe they'll do better when the 3D conversions come around (assuming they don't use the Lowry transfers again, which honestly wouldn't surprise me at this point.)
post #60 of 282
I doubt blu ray will be around in 5 years. Unfortunately.
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