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Experiencing audio dropouts on Star Wars? - Page 5

post #121 of 663
9/22/11 at 8:48am
Player: Sony S-360
Receiver: Denon AVR-590
Episode(s) affected: Episode II and IV
Player set to Bitstream or PCM: Bitstream

I noticed several audio dropouts during both of these films. I can't set the player to decode internally since it will only play the DTS core. I'm thinking of just getting a new player, a Sony S-380 that decodes DTS-HD MA internally since that seems to resolve the issue. I have the latest firmware installed.
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post #122 of 663
9/22/11 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

Player: Sony S-360
Receiver: Denon AVR-590
Episode(s) affected: Episode II and IV
Player set to Bitstream or PCM: Bitstream

I noticed several audio dropouts during both of these films. I can't set the player to decode internally since it will only play the DTS core. I'm thinking of just getting a new player, a Sony S-380 that decodes DTS-HD MA internally since that seems to resolve the issue. I have the latest firmware installed.

I was thinking like that too. Move my denon 3800 to the family room and get a new oppo bdp-93 for my basement HT. However, it was just posted here that even the newer 9x oppos have issues (no rear sound for episode 4)! Maybe you'll solve the dropout, but I would not assume getting a new player solves all the issues.

I'm expecting that Amazon package today or tomorrow. Now I don't know if I even want to try it out. I was willing to overlook all the special effects screwing around on this edition, but these technical issues are just making it harder to spend that 80 bucks.
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post #123 of 663
9/22/11 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post

Latest update from Oppo:


"We have confirmed this to be true on the BDP-8x and BDP-9x platforms, at least with Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. We have not tried the other discs in the series to confirm if the same errors occur.

The Surround Back channels are not working with the player set to LPCM (HDMI) or when using the analog outputs."

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.

So, at this point we can probably expect Oppo to be all over it if there's anything that can be done on their end.

That is my (A New) Hope.

Oppo is as always, the real deal.
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post #124 of 663
9/22/11 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyS View Post

I have already contacted Panasonic directly and was given the token "insert a 2GB SD card..." response. I replied, explaining I already had one installed and informed them of the video glitches with Episode II. They responded back asking for some player specific information from me (serial number, date of purchase, etc.). Here's hoping they issue a fix as the BD35 is my primary player in my HT.

I can only tell you that the engineers in Japan are aware of the playback problem on the BD35 (video glitches) as they actually heard about that one directly from Fox/LFL before they heard about it from me (or other customers). But the front line customer support people aren't always in contact with the engineers in Japan and until there is a solution, the Panasonic support people will probably be working from their usual scripts and making their usual suggestions.

Panasonic tends to be pretty good with firmware upgrades if it does turn out to be something they can fix so I'd say BD35 owners just need to be patient for now.

-CB
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post #125 of 663
9/22/11 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunofagundes View Post

Did anybody get a reply from Denon? I sent them an email 4 days ago and still didn't get a reply

Actually, I'm still waiting for confirmation from them too. Their initial response was that they could not reproduce the issue so I passed on some additional suggestions.

I would imagine that if/when they do reproduce it, they're going to want to understand and consider the full implications of this before they make any public statements. I believe some of the Denon receivers are field/user upgradeable but some are not.

No word back from Onkyo yet either.

-CB
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post #126 of 663
9/22/11 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

I can only tell you that the engineers in Japan are aware of the playback problem on the BD35 (video glitches) as they actually heard about that one directly from Fox/LFL before they heard about it from me (or other customers). But the front line customer support people aren't always in contact with the engineers in Japan and until there is a solution, the Panasonic support people will probably be working from their usual scripts and making their usual suggestions.

Panasonic tends to be pretty good with firmware upgrades if it does turn out to be something they can fix so I'd say BD35 owners just need to be patient for now.

-CB

Good to hear - thanks again, Chris!

Also promising on the potential update front that FOX/LFL already knew of the problem when in contact w/ Panasonic. I assume that when the BD35 price dropped a couple XMAS seasons ago, those players ended up in a relatively large number of homes.
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post #127 of 663
9/22/11 at 10:56am
Yep, I took back 3 different sets before figuring it was a Receiver issue.
I went and bought a Yamaha V571 and it has no issue playing all disk.
It was a expensive weekend to say the lease,but I actually like the Yamaha better then the Denon. Been with Denon since 1991.
Player set to Bit-stream:
My set WAS:
Denon 2309CI
Sony BDP 370
NO picture issues at all.

Still got the Sony BD and so far no Static at the title of each disk or audio drop outs. Funny thing to me was , ROTS and ESB played fine through the Denon.
And BTW, The 2309ci is NOT firmware upgradable unless sent into Denon.
I love Denon but if there is ONE Blu Ray I WANT TO see and hear perfectly its Star Wars.
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post #128 of 663
9/22/11 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan P. View Post

I was thinking like that too. Move my denon 3800 to the family room and get a new oppo bdp-93 for my basement HT. However, it was just posted here that even the newer 9x oppos have issues (no rear sound for episode 4)! Maybe you'll solve the dropout, but I would not assume getting a new player solves all the issues.

I'm expecting that Amazon package today or tomorrow. Now I don't know if I even want to try it out. I was willing to overlook all the special effects screwing around on this edition, but these technical issues are just making it harder to spend that 80 bucks.

I went ahead and bought an S380 and walla!...no dropouts. Sounds great. Also, this player is much faster than the S360 out of the box and I like that it provides the bitrate for the audio when you press display. The S360 did not have that. Very nice. Now I have a bedroom BD player.
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post #129 of 663
9/22/11 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

I went ahead and bought an S380 and walla!...no dropouts. Sounds great. Also, this player is much faster than the S360 out of the box and I like that it provides the bitrate for the audio when you press display. The S360 did not have that. Very nice. Now I have a bedroom BD player.

So, you replaced your BD player and it fixed it??
I tried my Bedroom LG BD player and it still did it.
What brand is the s380 ? Sony?
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post #130 of 663
9/22/11 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricST View Post

So, you replaced your BD player and it fixed it??
I tried my Bedroom LG BD player and it still did it.
What brand is the s380 ? Sony?

Yes. It's a Sony. Under $100 practically everywhere. Not bad. I think the real issue is bitstreaming vs. internal decoding. If you're player internally decodes DTS-HD MA, then set it to do so. It should take care of the issue. The S360 did not decode DTS-HD MA, instead sending the lossy core track. The S380 internally decodes the audio, so no dropouts.
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post #131 of 663
9/22/11 at 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xlr8yourMac View Post

The bigpix forum thread focuses on Rcvrs as culprit vs players - and it would be nice if everyone posting included their firmware versions in the recvrs. (The A2000 listing there and owner post on issue did not mention firmware version used)

That other A2000 report was kind of vague and likely another issue. There are lots of reports of various Yamaha AVRs playing the HD bitstream from these discs with no problems, so I don't think they will need firmware updates.
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post #132 of 663
9/22/11 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

Yes. It's a Sony. Under $100 practically everywhere. Not bad. I think the real issue is bitstreaming vs. internal decoding. If you're player internally decodes DTS-HD MA, then set it to do so. It should take care of the issue. The S360 did not decode DTS-HD MA, instead sending the lossy core track. The S380 internally decodes the audio, so no dropouts.

I will disagree with you that the player is at fult.
I switched out the receiver and that fixed out the trouble for me. Still using the BDP 370 that I was using with the Denon receiver but now have a Yamaha and that is what fixed it for me.
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post #133 of 663
9/22/11 at 12:45pm
Thread Starter 
I wouldn't eliminate the possibility (just yet) that firmware updates to EITHER the player or receiver might possibly solve the problems. Since I am having video issues in addition to the audio issues, perhaps I'll need firmware updates to both?

Mark
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post #134 of 663
9/22/11 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricST View Post

I will disagree with you that the player is at fult.
I switched out the receiver and that fixed out the trouble for me. Still using the BDP 370 that I was using with the Denon receiver but now have a Yamaha and that is what fixed it for me.

If the S360 had been able to decode DTS-HD MA internally, it wouldn't have been an issue. So...technically, it was the players fault.

But yeah, I know it's a receiver/player combo problem more than likely. A new player is cheaper than a new receiver and I love my Denon and don't want to replace it until it dies.

Is your S370 still bitstreaming to the Yamaha?
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post #135 of 663
9/22/11 at 1:22pm
panny bd 60 set on bitstreaming to an old rca stereo receiver. no surround just stereo.

audio dropout in aotc at specified location in movie.
will change to pcm and see if i can duplicate
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post #136 of 663
9/22/11 at 1:52pm
pops in rears onkyo 605 nd PS3 slim
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post #137 of 663
9/22/11 at 2:45pm
Player: PS3 80GB (not slim, no bitstreaming, latest firmware)
Receiver: Denon 3808ci

On Episode V, Chapter 26 (Yoda's Hut) it freezes and stutters.

I got through Episode IV without any problems.
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post #138 of 663
9/22/11 at 2:58pm
Denon was able to reproduce the problem and identified it as one that has already been fixed (seen on "The Golden Compass" Blu-ray... also DTS-HD MA 6.1). So much for this being related to THX Media Director... The good news is that if you have a network-connected Denon receiver, an update to the latest firmware should do the trick.

The bad news is that those without a network connection on their receiver will need to send it in or bring it in to a local service center for the update. They suggested calling Denon support to open a ticket and arrange to have it shipped to a service center for the update. They briefly considered developing a fix that could be delivered via RS232C from a PC (for those receivers that include an RS232 port), but nixed the idea as it was too risky (could brick the receiver).

-CB
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post #139 of 663
9/22/11 at 3:40pm
C'mon Panasonic - find the bug causing the video BD35 video glitches!!!
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post #140 of 663
9/22/11 at 3:41pm
Yeah, the closest Denon repair shop is a good 300 miles away and I don't feel comfortable sending something like this through the mail.
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post #141 of 663
9/22/11 at 3:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

C'mon Panasonic - find the bug causing the video BD35 video glitches!!!

Exactly how I feel! I'm not experiencing any audio dropouts without a corresponding video pause/freeze/pixelation. I haven't had any DTS bombs (loud pops or static). But the audio does disappear a second or two before the image freezes and the audio doesn't return until after the image is back in normal motion. And, again, in each case I was able to fast-reverse playback and play the same section over again and it played fine.

I really think (and really hope) that this is an issue that can be corrected in firmware for my BD35.

And, FWIW, the DSP firmware update I had done to my Pioneer 94TXH receiver earlier this year specifically addressed the issues found with Golden Compass (among other titles).

Mark
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post #142 of 663
9/22/11 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

The only player-specific issue I'm personally aware of is the Panasonic BD35 with some video glitches, which Panasonic is aware of and will hopefully be able to fix. These don't seem to occur on other Panasonic players. Anyone who has video glitches should report them to their player manufacturer for investigation.

The audio issues appear to be receiver-specific and can be worked around by putting the player in PCM mode (which means the receiver won't have to deal with the raw DTS-HD MA stream).

-CB

Thanks again Chris!

I confirmed that Episode II plays fine with no video glitches on my Panasonic BD60! So, here's hoping they develop a firmware upgrade for the BD35 and push it out soon - I'm watching them IV, V, VI, I, II, III so they have a little time!

Tomorrow I call Denon and see what they can do for my AVR-889 (which turns 3 on Monday). According to their website, I have an authorized service center 18 miles from my house so I will gladly drive it down to have it upgraded! Come on Denon - keep a long time user happy!
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post #143 of 663
9/22/11 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

Exactly how I feel! I'm not experiencing any audio dropouts without a corresponding video pause/freeze/pixelation. I haven't had any DTS bombs (loud pops or static). But the audio does disappear a second or two before the image freezes and the audio doesn't return until after the image is back in normal motion. And, again, in each case I was able to fast-reverse playback and play the same section over again and it played fine.

I really think (and really hope) that this is an issue that can be corrected in firmware for my BD35.

And, FWIW, the DSP firmware update I had done to my Pioneer 94TXH receiver earlier this year specifically addressed the issues found with Golden Compass (among other titles).

Mark

In my case, the video issues on AOTC @ 1:19:30 & at the 2 hour mark continue in the exact same spot every time. REW & replaying the section nets the same exact glitch @ the same point.
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post #144 of 663
9/22/11 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by estoniankid View Post

panny bd 60 set on bitstreaming to an old rca stereo receiver. no surround just stereo.

audio dropout in aotc at specified location in movie.
will change to pcm and see if i can duplicate

"Old" receiver? Does it have HDMI connections? Or were you bitstreaming lossey DTS core via digital coax or optical?
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post #145 of 663
9/22/11 at 4:54pm
Thread Starter 
I did a bit of testing and I am convinced that we have 2 (or more) different issues going on with these Star Wars discs.

I played Episode IV (A New Hope) for the first time. I immediately skipped to Chapter 16 and within 1-2 seconds I heard a VERY brief audio dropout. That dropout did NOT affect the image in any way. I played that section over and over and that brief audio dropout was there each and every time when I had my BD35 set for Bitstream to my Pioneer 94TXH. Then I tried two things:

1) I switched the BD35 to PCM and the audio dropout disappeared (still running through the 94TXH).
2) I ran an HDMI cable directly from the PD35 to my TV and tried with the BD35 in PCM and Bitstream. Directly to the TV the audio dropout disappeared.

Conclusion: For that brief audio dropout, there can be no doubt that the receiver is causing it.

But it is important to note that this very brief audio dropout is NOTHING like what I experienced with Episode II and Episode III. In fact, I never heard any other similar audio dropouts on those discs. On BOTH of those discs I lose sound and end up with frozen video for multiple seconds. And, as mentioned, the instances where it happens are not repeatable.

So, absolutely, we have two completely different issues here. That puny audio dropout after the start of Chapter 16 on Episode IV is nothing compared to the video freezes and pixelation.

Come on Panasonic... We need a firmware update for the BD35 an other affected players!

Mark
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post #146 of 663
9/22/11 at 5:07pm
I just checked AotC and I am seeing NO issues in either of the spots mentioned. (Not gonna go through the whole movie just yet.) Is anyone else seeing the problem I have in ESB?
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post #147 of 663
9/22/11 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post


Exactly how I feel! I'm not experiencing any audio dropouts without a corresponding video pause/freeze/pixelation. I haven't had any DTS bombs (loud pops or static). But the audio does disappear a second or two before the image freezes and the audio doesn't return until after the image is back in normal motion. And, again, in each case I was able to fast-reverse playback and play the same section over again and it played fine.

I really think (and really hope) that this is an issue that can be corrected in firmware for my BD35.

And, FWIW, the DSP firmware update I had done to my Pioneer 94TXH receiver earlier this year specifically addressed the issues found with Golden Compass (among other titles).

Mark

I have experienced the same freezes with corresponding audio drops, very irritating. I am using a pioneer elite 23fd bluray player and a pioneer elite vsx33 - both have the latest firmware.
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post #148 of 663
9/22/11 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

Denon was able to reproduce the problem and identified it as one that has already been fixed (seen on "The Golden Compass" Blu-ray... also DTS-HD MA 6.1). So much for this being related to THX Media Director... The good news is that if you have a network-connected Denon receiver, an update to the latest firmware should do the trick.

The bad news is that those without a network connection on their receiver will need to send it in or bring it in to a local service center for the update. They suggested calling Denon support to open a ticket and arrange to have it shipped to a service center for the update. They briefly considered developing a fix that could be delivered via RS232C from a PC (for those receivers that include an RS232 port), but nixed the idea as it was too risky (could brick the receiver).

-CB

I'm very much aware of this firmware as my 2808 has a RS232 port and Denon actually did produce a fix that could be installed from a PC. I know this to be true because I was able to get that fix from a Denon rep here on AVS (From the 2808 owners thread) and I installed it using a laptop. This was almost 2 years ago I believe so, I have that firmware update that Denon is talking about and it obviously does not fix the Star Wars problems.

Here are the current firmware version numbers from my Denon 2808ci:

Main - ver 30.25
Sub- ver 00.37
DSP1 - 36.57
DSP2 - 39.45
A PLD - A2941010
V PLD - A2940002
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post #149 of 663
9/22/11 at 7:57pm
Player Panasonic DMP-BDT310
Receiver Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH
Bitstream
I can confirm the problem goes away when set to PCM but a signifigant drop in sound quality comes with that mode. Im not willing to use PCM
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post #150 of 663
9/22/11 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin770 View Post

Player Panasonic DMP-BDT310
Receiver Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH
Bitstream
I can confirm the problem goes away when set to PCM but a signifigant drop in sound quality comes with that mode. Im not willing to use PCM

That means you don't have something setup properly. PCM is the same as bitstream as long as the same data is being used. Both are lossless.
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