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Experiencing audio dropouts on Star Wars? - Page 14

post #391 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhythmx View Post

My guess would be that Episode V and VI don't have much in the way of discrete back surround mix.

That's certainly true with my setup. Zilch from the surround backs for those two movies.

That being said, they've done a great job mixing the surround sides, because there were times I thought for sure the backs were participating in the soundscape, it was that full. However, rewinding the scenes and putting my ear up to the speakers revealed nothing coming out of the backs.

Until someone tells me they're getting a discrete mix from those back surrounds (for episodes V & VI), I'm thinkin' they are mute. Whether that's intentional, is another story.
post #392 of 663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

Pioneer is telling me they can't reproduce any player-specific problems in playback on the BDP-320 on this set. They do point out that they delivered a firmware update in August for playability and encourage owners to make sure they have the latest firmware applied

Chris,

Did Pioneer mention what the firmware version number(s) are for the August update? Was it just the 1st DSP they updated?

Again, the 1st DSP on my Pioneer 94TXH is currently at 2.012 and it was installed in January 2011.

Mark
post #393 of 663
Denon 3808 AVR & Denon 3800 BD player (LPCM mode). Watched episode 1 with no issues. Watched episode 2 with pixelation in two scenes. I seem to remember seeing pixelation in that same exact place where Anakin rescues his mother when I was watching the DVD some time ago(?)

AVR shows multi-channel 7.1 with all 7 input channel lights on, so I'm sure it's decoding properly. The only really noticeable back sound effect in ep2 was the dart "swoosh" before it hits that shape shifter bounty hunter. There just isn't much back effects in either of these two. It's mostly 5.1 with some occassional back effect. It's still a great sound track though.

I played a little bit of ep1 in bitstream and it's the same as LPCM as far as back channel sound is concerned. No bombs so far. Too scared to bitstream the whole thing front to back. I'm going to stick with LPCM since the fw is more up-to-date in my BD player.
post #394 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

Chris,

Did Pioneer mention what the firmware version number(s) are for the August update? Was it just the 1st DSP they updated?

Again, the 1st DSP on my Pioneer 94TXH is currently at 2.012 and it was installed in January 2011.

Mark

I think the note was about a Pio BD player, not an AVR.
post #395 of 663
I'm experiencing the same drop-out issue with the Star Wars Blu-Rays....I only got the original trilogy and have only gone through 'A New Hope', but I get the surround crackling in the silent beginning with 'Lucasfilm, LTD...A long time ago....'', and some audio dropouts throughout at the same places. Player is a Sony BDP-S350 with latest firmware, so I can't do a full multichannel LPCM from the DTS-HD MA.

I found an older firmware update (via USB to RS323 port) with Denon AVR2809 Setup Tool 0.0.12, but it's from '09 whereas the one that fixes this DTS-HD MA issue is apparently from Jan. '10.

I was considering just getting a new BD player that does an internal DTS-HD MA decode and full multichannel LPCM stream, but I'll wait a little bit since I PM'd jdsmoothie to see if he could send me the latest firmware update.
post #396 of 663
Bottom line after watching all six episodes (in sequence for the first time in my life), is these discs are messed up. There's no way they should have authored them to have so many issues with current and not very old players and receivers. There's no excuse why I should have back surround action only in PCM, and only on episodes I-IV with the level of gear I own.

It's tiresome to hear that it's on the back of the gear manufacturers; that THEY have to keep up with all the ******** coming down the line from the disc people. Bluray has been around long enough, IMHO, that everthing should be uniform from one production house to another.

Other than that, plenty of cheesy acting here and there, but the story....from episode 1 to 6 there's a great backstory that gets told somehow, someway.
post #397 of 663
I feel the same way you do, Jive...especially considering they're probably the most anticipated BluRay releases of all time. But I'm willing to stretch my patience a little bit more and see if I can fix it with the firmware update. Apparently this is an issue with other discs with newer DTS-HD Master tracks...but it's still a pain in the a$$. The big problem is when this happens, it makes you sensitive to it so you're not just watching the movie, you're waiting to see what else is wrong. Of all the movies that you want to just sit back and enjoy....Star Wars...you're siting there and forced to judge the transfer. We'll see.
post #398 of 663
Im confused, I have a fat PS3 so I have to use PCM to get lossless tracks during blu rays. I didn't think this was a set back since its just letting the player decode instead of my Denon 591. Yeah my 591 just says "multi ch" without DTS MA or DTHD displaying but the end result is the same correct?

If PCM does not have any issues on the discs I don't get why some are so pissed.
post #399 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstate-avfan-da View Post

Im confused, I have a fat PS3 so I have to use PCM to get lossless tracks during blu rays. I didn't think this was a set back since its just letting the player decode instead of my Denon 591. Yeah my 591 just says "multi ch" without DTS MA or DTHD displaying but the end result is the same correct?

If PCM does not have any issues on the discs I don't get why some are so pissed.

If it's a true multich in PCM/decode, then it is the same, but I think that some are just annoyed that their receiver is having problems with the decode when it should be handling everything for every title when it says so. Some like myself have a little older BluRay player (Sony BDP-S350) that doesn't do multich PCM for DTS-HD MA (only 2-ch mixdown) and can only out put that bitstream for the receiver to decode....and there's where the problems arise for some. You just figure that in this day and age...and from a title/company like Star Wars/Lucasfilm no less, that these types of 'bugs' would be tested and ironed out before releasing.
post #400 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by rchung9 View Post


If it's a true multich in PCM/decode, then it is the same, but I think that some are just annoyed that their receiver is having problems with the decode when it should be handling everything for every title when it says so. Some like myself have a little older BluRay player (Sony BDP-S350) that doesn't do multich PCNM for DTS-HD MA (only 2-ch mixdown) and can only out put that bitstream for the receiver to decode....and there's where the problems arise for some. You just figure that in this day and age...and from a title/company like Star Wars/Lucasfilm no less, that these types of 'bugs' would be tested and ironed out before releasing.

Ah I get it, didn't know PCM was handled differently on other players.
post #401 of 663
Just installed the firmware update on my Denon AVR-2809ci and it seemed to have worked. No more crackling in the surround speakers during the 'A long time ago....' silent intro, and the dropouts that were repeatable in various spots seemed to have disappeared when bitsreaming the DTS-HD MA track.

Hopefully now, I can just continue and watch Empire without any sound/codec distractions (any new firmware to remove the new effects shots added by Lucas? heh.... ).

Big thanks to jdsmoothie for the firmware update.
post #402 of 663
Using a slim PS3 with the latest firmware and a Pioneer SC-27 with the latest firmware, while playing the Star Wars blu-rays my volume will randomly jump to maximum. This has only ever happened with the Star Wars blu-rays, no other blu-rays cause this. It's HDMI and the Pioneer is doing the decoding.

It's a bit startling. I have a dB limit set on the SC-27 which might be kicking in and preventing something worse. Next time it happens, I'll document it better as to the details. It's happened on Episode IV as well as one of the other discs.
post #403 of 663
is everyone having trouble?
i dont want to buy the boxset and have issues

my setup is a Onkyo NR709 and PS3 Slim
post #404 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrafuzzyllama View Post

is everyone having trouble?
i dont want to buy the boxset and have issues

my setup is a Onkyo NR709 and PS3 Slim

"Everyone," no. But numerous with certain receivers do. Do a search within this thread for NR709 and see what ya get for issues and/or firmware fixes etc.
post #405 of 663
Watched 'Empire Strikes Back' on BluRay tonight....it looked and sounded great. To this day, it still impresses me just how glorious of a film this is, how giant of a leap it was in every aspect from the first film, and how nothing in the prequels even holds a candle to it. No dropouts or audio issues at all, as far as I can tell, after the AVR-2809ci firmware update. :up:
post #406 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaKane View Post


Until someone tells me they're getting a discrete mix from those back surrounds (for episodes V & VI), I'm thinkin' they are mute. Whether that's intentional, is another story.

I've only watched them once, but I am sure that when the probes launch from the Star destroyer at the beginning one is heard from the back surrounds. I am sure wind on Hoth and some ambient noise on Dagobah also come from the back surrounds. I had flagging issues with the 2004 DVD release of V, but the BD seems to play fine.
post #407 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

I've only watched them once, but I am sure that when the probes launch from the Star destroyer at the beginning one is heard from the back surrounds. I am sure wind on Hoth and some ambient noise on Dagobah also come from the back surrounds. I had flagging issues with the 2004 DVD release of V, but the BD seems to play fine.

Thanks, CAVX. I'll give it a listen and report back. I do recall thinking that the probe launch you mentioned had used the backs, but then came up silent with my ears pressed to the speaker.

As I mentioned earlier, the side surround mix is really well executed, giving one the impression of a much fuller soundscape. It's only when I'd put my ear right up to the back speaker that I realized what I thought had been coming out of them, was only coming from the sides.
post #408 of 663
Okay, I've just watched the beginning of episode V with the rear back speakers pressed to my ears.

Interestingly, with my set-up, there was no rear back speaker activity when the pods launched, as CAVX described, but they do kick in when Solo arrives at the rebel base (a personnel carrier drives by; bleating ton tons - or whatever ton tons do), so I stand corrected, there is definitely rear back activity in The Empire Strikes Back.

Therefore, the only film of the original trilogy that I still haven't heard anything from the surround backs is episode VI. I'll give that another listen...another day...in a galaxy far, far away (couldn't resist ).

One thing's for sure, the surround backs are minimal in frequency of use, which is unfortunate, as there are so many great scenes where they could've been used.

Thanks again, CAVX, for pointing me in the right direction. I really appreciate it, mate.
post #409 of 663
I've just taken another listen to ESP.

My system is far from top end, but here goes. The player is a Phillips BDP3000 (used for its 21:9 mode and subtitle shift, not required for the SW films) connected via HDMI to a Pioneer VSX1018 THX Select 2 AVR. Pre-outs feed the 2 way active LCRs and SW. Surrounds are passive and run off the build in amps of the AVR.

Anyway...

When presented with 5.1 (including EX encoded) sound, the THX mode allows for EXtended surround operation with selection between THX EX, THX + DPLII or THX Select Cinema 2 (which is my preferred listening mode) before going to music and game modes, but when presented with discrete audio (like the 6.1 tracks on the SW films), the only modes are THX CINEMA, THX MUSIC or THX GAME.

I had sound in the Back Surrounds from the beginning of the film. Most of it is low level ambient noise, but the back surrounds are active the whole time. The launch of the probe is actually an example of real time panning from screen to back wall with the sound being heard in both the side surrounds, then the back surrounds.

In modern films where they can specifically mix for extend surround, you will hear greater separation between the sides and backs of the room. In this case, the sound track has only really been "sweetened" to play back through an EX system, then encoded as 6.1.

Hope that helps.
post #410 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by boylan13 View Post

Actually, in my experience, the *opposite* of this is true. I have an Integra DTC-9.8 pre/pro and my neighbor has my old Onkyo TX-SR605. I also never got around to applying the DTS bomb DSP fix (apparently there was more than one DSP fix made available for these receivers) to either of these units. So I have base level (factory) firmware and DSP on both units.

I personally have *not* been able to reproduce the DTS Bomb problem on the "Star Wars" discs on these units. The people who *have* heard the DTS bomb issue on the x05 and x06 receivers seem to be those who have said that they did apply the DSP and/or firmware updates to their units. So, in my own opinion (based on my own experience) it seems like the "fix" - the update to the DSP to prevent the earlier DTS bomb, actually enables this latest DTS bomb problem to occur on the "Star Wars" discs. But I admit this is speculation since there really does not appear to be a 100% reliable reproduction of the issue on affected Onkyo and Integra units.

-CB

So your experience then the same as mine, not opposite. I did also thought that the DSP fix from 3 years ago, might have something to do with this issue on Onk/Integra products today WRT SW, but as I alluded in my earlier post, the data presented here is too unscientific to make any meaningful theories.
post #411 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

I had sound in the Back Surrounds from the beginning of the film. Most of it is low level ambient noise, but the back surrounds are active the whole time. The launch of the probe is actually an example of real time panning from screen to back wall with the sound being heard in both the side surrounds, then the back surrounds.

Just curious, when you say you had the back surrounds active from the beginning of the film, did you also hear the musical score through them? Or was it isolated to sound effects and ambient noise?
post #412 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaKane View Post

Just curious, when you say you had the back surrounds active from the beginning of the film, did you also hear the musical score through them? Or was it isolated to sound effects and ambient noise?

There always appears to be something coming from them. At no stage did I find them "silent". The sounds are mostly ambient noise and there is some of the score that can be heard from them as well. At one point, it appeared that they were not active, so I lightly touched the cone and could feel it vibrating, so a very low level of sound.

The Back Surrounds of an EX system (regardless if the sound track is matrix encoded or discrete) should behave as if they are a 'centre' channel to the surrounds and a good mixer will use them and not just pan from LS to RS and back without using the BS.

I'd say if a sound track was mixed that suddenly snaps to the back surround, that it would not appear smooth and would even be distracting. The use of the back surrounds in these SW films are not distracting. It is a very convincing seamless blend and very enveloping.
post #413 of 663
^^^

Thanks again, CAVX. My set-up seems to act differently, not only with the Star Wars films, but with the LOTRs, as well. I'm only hearing random sound effects that seem to fill in that spatial gap between the two sides, although they do exhibit panning aspects from time to time.

However, when I run PCM, at least with the Star Wars episodes IV thru VI, I seem to get more of what you're describing, which includes part of the score mixed into those backs.

Who knows what's going on with my gear?
post #414 of 663
Last night I watched episode 3 and experienced an odd glitch (Pioneer 320 BD player). When the movie got to chapter 39, the chapter/time line graphic popped up for a few seconds. This is the only point where this happened and it was not repeatable when I scanned back and played through that point again. I didn't have any glitches on any of the other episodes.

Anyone experience anything like this?
post #415 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaKane View Post

^^^

Thanks again, CAVX. My set-up seems to act differently, not only with the Star Wars films, but with the LOTRs, as well. I'm only hearing random sound effects that seem to fill in that spatial gap between the two sides, although they do exhibit panning aspects from time to time.

However, when I run PCM, at least with the Star Wars episodes IV thru VI, I seem to get more of what you're describing, which includes part of the score mixed into those backs.

Who knows what's going on with my gear?

I'd say there is 2 possibilities - 1. your player or 2 your format decoder in the AVR. Maybe I just got lucky here, who knows. I don't think the discs are at fault as there are more than just myself that are not having playback issues and those that do (including yourself) seem to have no issue when selecting PCM.
post #416 of 663
I just bought the Sony BDP-S380 today and I immediately had problems with the SW blu rays.

I noticed that the animated transitions between menus stutter, skip and even freeze for a bit before finally finishing. The firmware is up to date and I've tried the discs on two different players but it's always the same story. It's not just one disc either. I tried the prequel archive disc as well as the OT archive disc and both have laggy animated menus. I highly doubt the damage is exactly the same that it would allow for the same problem on both discs.

Anyone else having these troubles?

I guess I should also clarify that the movies play wonderfully. Well, I've only sat down to watch TPM so far but I've had no trouble watching the film or any of the archive footage that I've seen. It's strictly a problem with the animated menu transitions.

Thanks for any help!

--T
post #417 of 663
My back surrounds are working fine on Ep IV. PS3 slim bitstreaming to an Onkyo 608. I also don't have audio dropouts, or the DTS bomb.
post #418 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post

There always appears to be something coming from them. At no stage did I find them "silent". The sounds are mostly ambient noise and there is some of the score that can be heard from them as well.

I hear ya, CVX, but these following quotes from Rhythmx mirror what I'm getting:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhythmx View Post

The back channel or rear channel is used exclusively for sound effects in the SW movies. Music is not mixed in the channel, but when effects call for it, it is definitely active. The rear channel in these movies is not supposed to be always active. The surrounds seem to take care of most of the ambient music etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhythmx View Post

My guess would be that Episode V and VI don't have much in the way of discrete back surround mix. The back surround is only used for certain effects. I haven't had the chance to check out 5 or 6 yet, but all of the first 4 episodes have discrete back surrounds active. However, they are not like the side surrounds, they are quiet through a lot of the movie.

I think this is what we should be hearing. I'm basing this on not only my experience with Star Wars, but with other titles as well, including Lord of the Rings. Surround backs are occasionally active, and are not providing or mirroring the side surrounds, especially in regards to integrating the music score to those back speakers.

What you have been describing sounds more like a matrixing of the side surrounds. Sounds great in the soundscape, but I'm not too sure this was the way the mix was intended.

Quite the conundrum. I'd like to hear other people's experience as to what they are hearing in the back surrounds for these Star Wars Blu-rays. Are they sporadically active? Or are they always active?

Shark Cohen, you just posted that your back surrounds are working fine. Can you chime in with more specific info regarding this topic?
post #419 of 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxTK421xx View Post

I just bought the Sony BDP-S380 today and I immediately had problems with the SW blu rays.

I noticed that the animated transitions between menus stutter, skip and even freeze for a bit before finally finishing. The firmware is up to date and I've tried the discs on two different players but it's always the same story. It's not just one disc either. I tried the prequel archive disc as well as the OT archive disc and both have laggy animated menus. I highly doubt the damage is exactly the same that it would allow for the same problem on both discs.

Anyone else having these troubles?

I guess I should also clarify that the movies play wonderfully. Well, I've only sat down to watch TPM so far but I've had no trouble watching the film or any of the archive footage that I've seen. It's strictly a problem with the animated menu transitions.

Thanks for any help!

--T

I'm using an S380 with the latest firmware and have had no troubles at all with the menus. Strange.
post #420 of 663
I had troubles at the beginning, then i updated my Denon 2809 with the April 2010 FW and everyting was fine again...
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