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Star Wars musings and various considerations - Page 2

post #31 of 84
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

I mean seriously, was Vader screaming NOOOOOOO at the end of ROTS the moment when the average person is supposed to be clued into his fall from grace? We couldn't have figured that out when he pulled the lightsaber on the children?

His scream in ROTS is in response to Padme's death, not a clue of his fall from grace, which like I said before is somewhat relevant in ROTJ as the emperor is about to kill their son... But that ROTJ scream certainly wasn't needed. As I still haven't watched it, I have to yet to conclude if i can live with it or not
post #32 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

Is this "NOOOOOOO" thing really such a big deal? I don't think so. Sure it's DIFFERENT, but it's not so illogical that it leaves me dumbfounded, going "why the hell is THAT in there??!!" like some of the other changes.

I don't think the issue is that it's necessarily illogical, but that it was utterly superfluous. One of the coolest things about Vader is that he could convey his state of mind without speaking or even facial expressions. Just the positioning of his head was often all that was needed. And not just in the scene that has everyone up in arms (although that's probably the best example.)
post #33 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

If future generations watch the series from episode 1-6, they can reconcile the journey from Anakin's fall to his redemption without superficially adding in dialogue. Anakin/Vader's actions during his fall( killing children, turning on the Jedi) and his redemption( turning on the emperor) aren't sufficient enough for the viewer? What more do you need than his actions, which as is often said, speak louder than words?

I mean seriously, was Vader screaming NOOOOOOO at the end of ROTS the moment when the average person is supposed to be clued into his fall from grace? We couldn't have figured that out when he pulled the lightsaber on the children? We need a mirroring 'NOOOOOO' at the end of ROTJ to get clued into his redemption? Lifting the emperor over his head, the image of him looking back and forth at Palpatine and Luke, the climaxing music, wasn't enough?

Again, I don't need the "NOOOOOO."
Perhaps others do.

Vader's "NOOOOO" means much more in the post prequel world than it did way back in the 80's.
NO to the Darkside.
NO to the lies of the Sith.
NO to the lie of Padme's death.
NO to the wasted years as DV.
NO to the grief and death he participated in and often initiated himself.
NO to the concept of the Empire.
NO to the hunting down of Jedi.
NO to dictatorship.
NO to the threat to Leia.
On and on....


Quote:
Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

I'm not sure what Lucas was going for with the Christensen ghost but any positive reasons are overshadowed by negative backlashes.

Maybe he wanted to show Anakin when he was still good?

How about....in Jedi "heaven" devils are not allowed?

Anakin was a Jedi (angel).
When he transmorgaphied into DV, Anakin died.
And DV was a Sith (devil).
Now that DV is dead at the end of Ep.6, Anakin is alive again.
post #34 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Again, I don't need the "NOOOOOO."
Perhaps others do.

Vader's "NOOOOO" means much more in the post prequel world than it did way back in the 80's.
NO to the Darkside.
NO to the lies of the Sith.
NO to the lie of Padme's death.
NO to the wasted years as DV.
NO to the grief and death he participated in and often initiated himself.
NO to the concept of the Empire.
NO to the hunting down of Jedi.
NO to dictatorship.
NO to the threat to Leia.
On and on....



How about....in Jedi "heaven" devils are not allowed?

Anakin was a Jedi (angel).
When he transmorgaphied into DV, Anakin died.
And DV was a Sith (devil).
Now that DV is dead at the end of Ep.6, Anakin is alive again.

Wow - I thought I was responsible for major SW spin back in the day....


I see the JEDI additions - both recent & prior - as well as the other alterations on the BD set in a different light than most of my fellow old school SW fans.

Being someone who saw the original SW as a 7 yr old in 1977, you would think that lack of a proper O-OT release in a current format should cause my head to explode. It doesn't. I ENJOY the changes (mostly). Still never got over the Greedo deal, but the 1080p redux is the most palatable to me. I will live.

I do have rather nice (albeit less than official) digital copies of the O-OT that I can always scratch my nostaligia itch with. Would not mind a nice HD transfer from Uncle George - and I will buy it if it ever comes to pass.

But in revisting the series on BD with my kids (in particular my 8 yr old), I appreciate that this is how THEY see Star Wars. Its a new thing for them & a rediscovery of sorts for me. WHile the twist in ESB will be spoiled, my kids currently do not realize Ani becomes Vader (they have watched I & II with mom & I so far) - they get their own surprise.

While my own childhood SW memories are still intact & I have the O-OT preserved in a nice (if imperfect) digital form, I appreciate that those are my memories. SW belongs to my kids now. I'm enjoying every minute of this new BluRay "travesty" of a redux with my family. That is worth $80 at the very least.

Love your new signature, BTW.
post #35 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

His scream in ROTS is in response to Padme's death, not a clue of his fall from grace, which like I said before is somewhat relevant in ROTJ as the emperor is about to kill their son... But that ROTJ scream certainly wasn't needed. As I still haven't watched it, I have to yet to conclude if i can live with it or not

I don't especially care about the one in ROTS, as silly as it came off it was a part of that movie. The scream that's been added into ROTJ, however, is a silly, pointless addition to a scene that was effectively perfect. I've been on many Star Wars forums where some people feel that sequence was the best part of the whole saga. It would seem the only person who felt it needed changing....is Lucas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Again, I don't need the "NOOOOOO."
Perhaps others do.

Vader's "NOOOOO" means much more in the post prequel world than it did way back in the 80's.
NO to the Darkside.
NO to the lies of the Sith.
NO to the lie of Padme's death.
NO to the wasted years as DV.
NO to the grief and death he participated in and often initiated himself.
NO to the concept of the Empire.
NO to the hunting down of Jedi.
NO to dictatorship.
NO to the threat to Leia.
On and on....



I know that you don't need it. I merely question why Lucas felt others needed it. Anyways, we can go on and on about this, in my opinion it's an unnecessary addition.
post #36 of 84
I'm not a fan of the changes at all. A lot of them don't make any sense to me and actually change the story for the worse (Greedo shoots first, Han stepping on Jabba's tail, Hayden's Force Ghost). The other problem with a lot of the new additions is that they don't mesh well with the existing movie. The CG additions look out of place, The lightsabers are still inconsistent in color and some of the additions are just sloppy. For example, Jabba's door is now HUGE, but the interior shot still shows the same small door.

What's really a shame is that Lucas has chosen to divide his fan base instead of following the benchmark that Blade Runner set for Blu Ray releases. On the bright side, there are some very good fan edits out there that try to preserve the original versions as much as humanly possible.
post #37 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Too many of the changes make the scene worse, not better. Jedi Rocks. REALLY?? Vader screaming noooooo at the end of Jedi? I figured out what was going on with Vader when I was ten, are you saying today's generation is too dumb and needs a verbal cue?

- Even if today's generation is too simplistic to see the turmoil going on in Vader, it is made apparent a moment later when he picks up the Emperor and throws him to his death. I don't think anyone thought Vader was going for an Argentine Tango lift.
post #38 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

Is this "NOOOOOOO" thing really such a big deal? I don't think so.

It screws with one of the best scene ever in the history of motion pictures. Yea its a big deal for me.

As side note, few know that they actually changed Darth Vaders helmet for this scene(in the orginal version) to make him look sader. A very good subtle filmtrick.
post #39 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

It screws with one of the best scene ever in the history of motion pictures. Yea its a big deal for me.

Yeah, the scene was perfect as it was. The addition seems to be a byproduct of a whim, or at least I hope it was decided on a whim as it is scary to think that this came about from critical thinking.

No worries though, because we'll get another version years from now that includes other "improvements" but remove the added dialogue.
post #40 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post


I know that you don't need it. I merely question why Lucas felt others needed it. Anyways, we can go on and on about this, in my opinion it's an unnecessary addition.

It's unnecessary for me too.
I don't need it all to come to grips with DV's state of mind.

I'm just sayin'......
post #41 of 84
You know Lucas was puffin' away on a Marley sized spliff and watching the Muppet Show late at night. When all of a sudden he gets an Lets combine Dr. Teeth and Animal to create the grooviest of all groovers Tatooine has ever seen.
post #42 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

You know Lucas was puffin' away on a Marley sized spliff and watching the Muppet Show late at night. When all of a sudden he gets an Lets combine Dr. Teeth and Animal to create the grooviest of all groovers Tatooine has ever seen.

OK, I understand...it's late....you've had a long day...
post #43 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

I hope it was decided on a whim as it is scary to think that this came about from critical thinking.

It came from George Lucas having total control over the franchise, and surrounding himself with people whose only job is to say 'Yes, Masta'( in Vader voice and kneeling).
post #44 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

It came from George Lucas having total control over the franchise, and surrounding himself with people whose only job is to say 'Yes, Masta'( in Vader voice and kneeling).

I think you hit the nail here. Since he is the big guy in Lucasfilm people think twice before they give any critisism. And the irony could very well be that such fear may be unfounded. Since many people would appriciate advice, as long as you accept that the guy in charge may still want to do it his way. But at least he heard a second opinion before his decision.

And before anyone says that George doesnt listen to critisism, please compare the amount of screentime Jar jar has in Ep1 and what he has in Ep2 and Ep3.

Sure he will not admit he was wrong so we will never see the orginal killing of Greedo again, just a compromise with Greedo shooting slower for each edition.
post #45 of 84
Here's a musing for you:

I'm not buying that steaming pile until someone goes back and does a proper job on the original, un played with, version.

Until then, no, GL, just no....

Seggers
post #46 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I think you hit the nail here. Since he is the big guy in Lucasfilm people think twice before they give any critisism.

The original Star Wars films were created by a coalition of talented people-screenwriters, directors, special effects gurus, actors etc etc. Lucas, while it was 'his' story, was on close to equal footing with everyone. Now, as he's created this empire with him ironically sitting in the role of Palpatine, there's no objective voice equal in clout to challenge him. Yeah I know, that sounded a bit melodramatic lol.
post #47 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

OK, I understand...it's late....you've had a long day...

Yes, the day was long. But now Friday has arrived and the weekend can't be far behind. May the Force be with us.
post #48 of 84
I've got sort of a conspiracy-theory/technical question:

Lucas says that they restored the "new" version but not the original one and that it would be too expensive to restore the original one to blu-ray. However, wouldn't they first restore the original print before adding in any updates? And wouldn't it seem reasonable that they would add in the new changes to separate film stock and leave the restored original alone?

I find it hard to believe that they would remaster the original and then somehow (if it's even possible) add in the changes to THAT master.
post #49 of 84
We also have to consider the role Lucas' ex-wife plays in this. I believe she can claim royalties from the original movies, correct? If Lucas is creating 'alternative' Star Wars films, perhaps she has no legal right to claim royalties if they're 'different' movies? Of course, if that's true, he only needed to alter the films once( the 97 special versions).
post #50 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

We also have to consider the role Lucas' ex-wife plays in this. I believe she can claim royalties from the original movies, correct? If Lucas is creating 'alternative' Star Wars films, perhaps she has no legal right to claim royalties if they're 'different' movies? Of course, if that's true, he only needed to alter the films once( the 97 special versions).

Ahhhh. You may be onto something there! If that's the case, then it'll be a long time before we see the originals.

Cary
post #51 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post

Ahhhh. You may be onto something there! If that's the case, then it'll be a long time before we see the originals.

Cary

I mean, I don't know... I'm just going on various reports and hearsay on that one. But if there's any inkling of truth to it, she's entitled to a cut of the profits should the originals be released. So yeah, we literally may have seen the last release of the originals on that limited edition DVD back in 2006, where they were included as a 'bonus'.

FYI, I just clicked on a link, didn't read the whole thing as it was quite long, but picked out a snippet where she is credited as an Editor for Star Wars(1977) and Return of the Jedi(1983).
post #52 of 84
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post

Ahhhh. You may be onto something there! If that's the case, then it'll be a long time before we see the originals.

Cary

lol imagine how pissed she must be then!
post #53 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

The original Star Wars films were created by a coalition of talented people-screenwriters, directors, special effects gurus, actors etc etc. Lucas, while it was 'his' story, was on close to equal footing with everyone. Now, as he's created this empire with him ironically sitting in the role of Palpatine, there's no objective voice equal in clout to challenge him. Yeah I know, that sounded a bit melodramatic lol.

Yeah, kinda...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

lol imagine how pissed she must be then!

I am not GL, but I slept in a Holiday Inn.... have an ex too.

I wouldn't give mine my used toilet paper....
post #54 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

Anybody else find the "NOOOOOOO" humorous?--considering George is, in a way, "raping" the films/our childhoods/etc.?

careful about using the word 'raping' some mods find it offensive.
post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

+1

I was there too.
At the Grauman's Chinese Theater, during a midnight showing, the entire audience actually STOOD UP and cheered.
I have never seen anything comparable before nor since.

When I saw it on its second day of its release, 1st day word of mouth spread like wildfires in Texas - Dude, you have to see this movie. Dude you have to see it now before everyone tells you about it -

sold out theater, Century 21 in San Jose, waited in line like 1 1/2 hours to get in and I'll never forget that opening scene.

And at the end of the movie, not he beginning,
everyone cheered and gave it a standing ovation.

Never seen that before and probably never will again.
post #56 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by estoniankid View Post

When I saw it on its second day of its release, 1st day word of mouth spread like wildfires in Texas - Dude, you have to see this movie. Dude you have to see it now before everyone tells you about it -
sold out theater, Century 21 in San Jose, waited in line like 1 1/2 hours to get in

Exactly what happened in L.A.


Quote:
and I'll never forget that opening scene.

Neither will I.
post #57 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

I mean, I don't know... I'm just going on various reports and hearsay on that one. But if there's any inkling of truth to it, she's entitled to a cut of the profits should the originals be released. So yeah, we literally may have seen the last release of the originals on that limited edition DVD back in 2006, where they were included as a 'bonus'.

FYI, I just clicked on a link, didn't read the whole thing as it was quite long, but picked out a snippet where she is credited as an Editor for Star Wars(1977) and Return of the Jedi(1983).

Others will surely come here & try to discredit this -and it has never been 100% confirmed & likely never will be. But I do think it very well is Marcia Lucas & the $$ she would stand to get out of an "original" trilogy release. From what I have read in the past, Marcia took a sizable chunk of George's original SW $$ in the divorce settlement.

She is still credited on the Spec Ed. versions, but reportedly a loophole was placed into - or inadvertently was added into - the financial details of the Lucas divorce. It is only the '77/'80/'83 versions that make Marica any real $$.

This is also considered a big reason why George sold off what became Pixar - a lot of his SW money was taken from him by the ex & her lawyers. Marica gets exactly zero from any business ventures post-divorce. That obviously includes all things SW

I can totally understand that George really won't issue the O-OT properly out of bitterness @ his ex. Broken hearts often lead to nasty grudges.
post #58 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwebb1970 View Post

i can totally understand that george really won't issue the o-ot properly out of bitterness @ his ex. Broken hearts often lead to nasty grudges.

+1
post #59 of 84
Finally opened my SW set and watched The Phantom Menace tonight. The AQ was simply outstanding. After the pod race I wanted to raise my hands to Alderaan, let out a Krayt dragon whoop, and do the yub-nub jig right then and there.
post #60 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

After the pod race I wanted to raise my hands to Alderaan, let out a Krayt dragon whoop, and do the yub-nub jig right then and there.

Would it be too much to ask you to put it on video and share it with us?
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