Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 36

I've been reading a lot about the "red-ish" blacks that should be caused by the voltage settings of for example my KRP-500A.
The thing is i can't seem to find out how to change these voltage values...
I have a DB9-USB cable (or whatever it's called) and a ControlCAL profile which i used for setting my ISF.
I think what i need is to access the service menu, but that it's only possible by a special remote controller.
I've got an NAD HTRC 1 remote that can be accessed through my PC, if that can be used.
I know that i might be going in circles and that is why i'm asking you for help
Mickey, Denmark

I'm still waiting for the Tech to call and set up next appointment to replace the Logic Board. The issue is the Service Remote. Pioneer has canceled the order twice now. Last we spoke, Pioneer was shipping it on the 26th. Crossing my fingers.
My Extended Warranty is over but my service ticket remains. I can renew for another year or two in Mid March. They have offered to give me a new set but in my opinion, there isn't one as good as the PRO-111FD. The Panasonic Z may just be that but its not out yet. Once it arrives and is proven to be "as good' in picture quality, I may jump out of my Kuro. However, if they can fix my Kuro I'll be as happy as the day I bought it.

New logic board was installed an hour ago and to no avail. The red tint was gone for about 5 minute but came creeping back. Discouraged tech spoke with Pioneer directly after the install to initiate the board with the service remote. Tech mentioned the voltage adjustments and was cut off immediately. Pioneer wanted nothing to do with messing with the voltage to the point were Pioneer said there wasn't any for this set. However, they said the next step is to replace the Main Board. I wait yet another week in this painful process.

Question: Does the main board reset the the TVs hours of operation? I'm at "12959H 42M". Assuming the factory settings are set if the set was brand new (I've not touched them as I've never had access to service menu), I'm curious if this "hours of operation reset" mentioned in this thread would then by default fix this issue.

I've added images for fun

Logic Board


The Beast within

Edited by mopar426 - 3/9/13 at 4:40pm

IIRC you have to reset the pulse as well (if that's what it's called), not just the hours.

What is IIRC?

If I remember correctly

Oh da, and here I thought it might mean Interlaced Image Reflection Calibration.

Yes, I'm joking now.

Imo i think it is genuinely a waste of much needed spare parts for ageing display models that might genuinely need them for something else.

If a voltage re-adjustment/reset/both - remedies the issue then that (should) be Pioneers approach.

It does no harm as far as calibration accuracy afterwards - according to some who calibrated their plasma after tweaks and or resets.

I want to agree with this statement but have no backing to do so other than this thread. On the contrary Pioneer wanted nothing to do with Voltage adjustment to the point of arguing with the Tech that one doesn't exist in the 111. (As absurd as that sounds)
I paid for a warranty and its paying for these parts four years later. If Pioneer is directing this show and wishes to put new parts in this set then I will allow such. At this point the only waste for me is my time...and only time will tell if the maker of this set actually can fix this issue.

Consider yourself lucky Pioneer is even doing something other than stick their heads in the sand and claim its normal. I've been dealing with their avoidance for over 2 years, and over that time my set has become progressively worse, to the point the red has invaded the picture itself. Displaying near black test patterns, there is red at 0, 1, 2, 3, and a little at 4. I've given up on Pioneer Canada's attitude and unwillingness to address this issue, and have filed a small claims court suit against them.

Keep us up to date with your replacement board, and hopefully it will correct the problem.
Edited by vega509 - 3/2/13 at 12:49pm

Main Board was replaced Friday afternoon. It was a "repaired" board though. I asked if it would be contain the factory settings as if new and was told yes. No proof though. After it was installed the tech was unable to show me the hours of operation. I'm skeptical to say the least. As you may be able to concluded, it did nothing to fix the problem. Even at the setup screen when it asks "Home " or "Store", there it was along the bottom and top bezel as if there was a red back-light seeping out around the frame. As far as I know that board could have been pulled from another 111 that had the same problem. Yeah that's me being paranoid I guess.

Tech says its the panel. Said it before he even put the Main Board in but "that's what Pioneer said to do". The next step is a new panel, but wait, they state they cant get one. So three surgeries later and time off work I'm exactly were I started. 1515.96 in parts and 430.00 in labor, all covered by my warranty, I'm now faced with a decision; Keep it or Trade it in? My options are to trade it now for Panasonic V series, w 5 year warranty and calibration or see how long I can hold out for the Panasonic Z coming out April or May and I'll probably have to throw in a little cash to get there. I currently believe the PRO-111FD is the best but as my wife said "Yours isn't if you have a red tint you cant get rid of".

What to do? Thoughts? Suggestions? Can I live with a the Second Best "V" or wait for the potential new King Z created by those engineers who made the Kuro as bad ass as it is...well not mine. I see 111's on E-bay for Two Grand but I'm getting more than that on the swap out.

Below is the Main Board



Model #

Edited by mopar426 - 3/9/13 at 4:44pm

It's really retarded from Pioneer's side to not want to try adjusting the voltages, we all know they're there and it's pretty much the only thing that help make changes to the red tint.

I say wait, next gen consoles will come out by the end of the year and more sets will be available and features that could be helpful (such as HDMI 2.0 and stuff like that). I am looking to upgrade to a bigger display myself and the options out there suck hard at the moment, is there any word on Sharp producing another Elite model? Because that would have potential to finally match the Kuro or exceed it in terms of PQ.

so say it is the panel, have just read over on the uk av forums, from a well know calibrator.

Are you stating this well known calibrator agrees that it is the panel? Evidence is mounting but what exactly is going on? D-Nice had stated it was set up wrong at the factory. Is it ruined? Does it get worse? Mine has spread (viewable) about 3" from bottom.

from what i have read over on that forum yes, take a look yourself

Just did a quick search. read a couple interesting things about an lx5090 and Pioneers take. I clearly don't understand why this only effects the bottom and top of my panel and not the rest of the viewable area?

I'm not sure if all red tint issues behave the same, but my 5020FD had very very little red tint near the top and bottom bezel, I was barely able to notice it even in a completely dark room when I first caught the issue, but as time progressed it became A LOT worse, it was easy to notice it even in a semi dark room because the red tint was covering pretty much half of the screen.

Oh not you as well

It's not the panel. The panel needs to be driven by something - something adjusted clears the tint.

It's not the panel. It's a get out clause because they aren't made anymore.

= Saves money.

Techs i spoke to swore on their pets life - it's not the panel.

Someone is lying then.

I read recently a service manual of the last monitors before the KRP's.

Plenty interesting stuff in there. And (the importance) of (correctly) setting up each of the voltages in conjunction with waveforms etc etc and a whole lot more.

In fact there is far more information in the older manuals than is in the 8 & 9G's.
Edited by Stu03 - 3/11/13 at 7:41am

I have new Y Board, New Logic Board and New Main Board. If its not any of those boards and its not the panel, as you state, then what is it?
Is there information that the panel gives back, that makes the Logic board try to correct (for age?) thus creating this issue?

IF its simply a voltage adjustment then for a Pro-111FD, what is said adjustment? Give a step by step on how to get to that part of the service menu. I could try it before I trade it for a Panasonic V or Z.

LOL LOL,

The well known calibrator that stated this on the AVForums is talking about matters he does not know anything about. Routinely his advice is countered by well thought out arguments and is several times made incorrect statements about calibration which were corrected by other members. I begs the question if we can trust any information regarding technical aspects.

As Stu03 has already stated here, the panel is driven which is causing the issue. As this occurred over time and can be adjusted out, shows that the nature of the red tint does not emanate from the panel. Several generations have seen these issues, which use different panel types. Even other manufacturers have seen the same problem. I think D-Nice has accurately observed the problem and conducted experiments accordingly. All the evidence points towards the driving side of the panel.

This forum is much more open to the concept of the red tint, and seems like the AVForums is rather stunted because of the continuous negative comments made.

I hope you get things sorted ASAP Mopar, its said to see that they are unable to pull their finger out and fix it.

So it is possible the refurb Main Board is trying to drive the panel the same way as the old Main Board, with the same result. What is making it do that? That's why I ask if the panel itself has any data (hours of operation) that could tell any Main board or Logic Board or Y Board to do what they are doing. "Hey, I've got over 10,000 hours, I need this to be done to help me cause someone three years ago though I would".

Also, why is it only along the bottom (fades to black within 3 inches) and top (faded to black within 1"). The only logic (and boy I'm finding I don't have much left on this one) I can come up with is the clustering of the pixels in rows at the bottom and top experience more or less elements; heat, vibration, magnetic waves or whatever, as they are associated with an edge, than those in the center of the panel who's environment is as that of its neighbor therefore acting the same. Stupid I know but this really has me baffled.

I would assume that the localisation of electric field is greater at the edge where the components are situated. These area's coincidently show the increased area's of temperature when operating. Elevated temperatures can affect the plasma conditions affecting the discharge parameters. Plasma is the ionization of atoms from a gas molecule, and the increase in temperature and you increase the energy given to the dissociated ions. More energetic ions for a given gas density would affect the electrical parameters within the plasma region and through the plasma.

The panel itself is a physical stack of materials, each owning to a particular property (DBD, TCO, Filters etc). Natural ageing of the panel which results in the degradation of phosphors from plasma ignition. This degradation is assumed to be uniform across the panel with each RGB having an associated decay rate from exposure. Images despite being non-uniform and rapidly altering which would allow us to assume through watching a host of mixed material as we do to age evenly. Only would be experience uneven wear from burn in if the panel was used permanently with a logo in place. In normal operation, nothing should change in the panel composition apart from this natural ageing.

Obtaining the red tint defect is a non-uniform discharge that is localised to the hottest area's of the panel. As the panel is the "non-active" part of the device and is only excited by the "active" driving side, it indicates the driving side of the panel is defective or in abnormal operation. Voltage tweaking has proven this to be the case. If the panel was defective, it would be a permanent feature despite the "active" input, just like burn-in.



Mopar, I assume the fact your panel still exhibits this defect that the appropriate adjustments have not been made (hours/pulse cleared, voltage adjustment etc). It is possibly likely that individual components have memory for storing specific discharge functions. I hope you get it sorted soon. If not the the ZT60 / F8500 are only around the corner, and looks like the F8500 is going to be an excellent set.

Ok, great read. Thank you.

So, if the voltages are adjusting to compensate for age thats based on hours/pulse, then what were they in the beginning and is this so basic that anyone who hits the right amount of hours will begin this dreaded downgrade from black to red?

I have not adjusted one setting in the service menu to date. Just looked at it when she was under the knife. I would like to try to adjust a VOL and see. I do recall seeing the VOL YKNOFSA at 128...I think. I've read someone dropped theirs to 88 and have their KURO again. My issue is I don't have the dang service remote anymore. I have also seen the attempts made with a hyper-terminal but that seams a bit shaky. I do have a Universal Remote MX-7??. if i could get codes that would be awesome.

The fact that I can basically swap this PRO-111RT (RT for Red Tint) for a VT50, get it calibrated and get 5 more years of a warranted set seams a no-brainer....slightly different story on the Z as I may have to dig in the wallet a bit.

I just want to know

I started noticing a reddish hue in black material a few months ago in my 5020. I have no idea how many hours I've used it but I purchased it in Feb. 2009, four years and one month ago. I don't think I will spend any time or money in trying to fix it, will probably go with a ZT60 or F8500 in the coming months and be done with it.

I, too, wonder if it's an inevitability on all 9G panels, eventually. I purchased my 111FD around the same time as you and have not much over 2000 hours with no sign of creeping redness. Relatively light usage after 4 years, with it mostly being reserved for Blu-ray (and the occasional TV serials earlier in its life; say, the first 2 years).

I would guess it affects 10% of Kuro's.

It's an easily fixable issue. Just needs care most of all - and a bit of patience.

The only upgrade in a F8500 over 60" or ZT will be size.

I have a new 500M sat waiting for me with fourteen months Pioneer warranty remaining.

Couldn't ask for more until 4K res 0MLL (pro) display is here few years in the future.

I would guess it affects 10% of Kuro's.

It's an easily fixable issue. Just needs care most of all - and a bit of patience.

The only upgrade in a F8500 over 60" or ZT will be size.

I have a new 500M sat waiting for me with fourteen months Pioneer warranty remaining.

Couldn't ask for more until 4K res 0MLL (pro) display is here few years in the future (hopefully)

Can't see how it can be an upgrade otherwise

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's an easy problem to fix though, trying to fix it brings a whole bunch of issues that you'll have to go through trials and errors trying to eliminate them if that's even possible, will probably even require further tweaking as time progresses. It's annoying as hell.

I too got a new 500M not long ago, but I really need a larger set by now, 50" just doesn't cut it anymore. PS4 should be here by the end of the year and I hope there will be a nice large set that I can get by then or till mid 2014 at most, Kuro's PQ set some very high standards and I won't settle for something that doesn't at least match it.

65" set that matches the Kuro's PQ but produces even better blacks during low contrast scenes would be perfect, I honesty don't care much for 4K in a display panel because I'd like to have that on a 120"+ projector screen instead to actually see the resolution improvement.
Edited by metallicaband - 3/14/13 at 2:14am