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Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 39

post #1141 of 2557
Sometimes if they get dirty and clogged up inside they run louder because they have to work harder. But it could be you just have a noisy one. My dvd drive is extremely quiet, i can't hear the fans (actually have acute hearing) but putting my hand at the back can feel the hot/warm air being pushed out. I never liked the noise of the 360 before the games were able to be played off the hard drive. The fans blasting away - the dvd spinning like mad. Like you said, like a aeroplane before this was enabled years back imho.

But my point being - these fans in my 500 are extremely quiet, almost like a soothing constant purr to me. But i guess it wouldn't be for everyone.

I just like the idea of my new Kuro keeping as cool as possible 100% of the time wink.gif
post #1142 of 2557
Damn. I've noticed the red tint issue cropping up slowly but I didn't think it was much of a problem. Now my 500M has it pretty bad to the point where I can see it in letterbox movies. Bummer. I don't feel comfy with the reset dance.
post #1143 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

Damn. I've noticed the red tint issue cropping up slowly but I didn't think it was much of a problem. Now my 500M has it pretty bad to the point where I can see it in letterbox movies. Bummer. I don't feel comfy with the reset dance.

That's unfortunate.

Perhaps making an appointment with a renowned Kuro expert may be your best bet if you are in the US...
post #1144 of 2557
I'm hoping there's a fix. Even if I had the money right now to buy another panel I can't think of one that would best the 500M,
post #1145 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

I'm hoping there's a fix. Even if I had the money right now to buy another panel I can't think of one that would best the 500M,

I am sure a calibrator can eliminate (hide is probably a better word with this issue) some of the red tint. I still only notice my red tint in a completely dark room (with dark content on the screen). I see the red tint creeping in the bars at the top and bottom but it's not overwhelming. If the scene is bright or has any light at all, I can't see it. If I have any light on at all in the room, it's impossible to see. I rarely watch tv any more in a completely dark room so it hasn't been a huge issue for me. Still trying to decide if I want to sell it or not.
post #1146 of 2557
This really stinks. D-Nice calibrated it when I first got it and it looked great. The red tint is a slow creep and I pretty much ignored it until the other night watching Evil Dead and seeing it in the bars. Maybe D-Nice can calibrate it away. smile.gif
post #1147 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

This really stinks. D-Nice calibrated it when I first got it and it looked great. The red tint is a slow creep and I pretty much ignored it until the other night watching Evil Dead and seeing it in the bars. Maybe D-Nice can calibrate it away. smile.gif

I am sure he can help it but I am not sure about getting rid of it entirely (unless you didn't have the actual red tint problem). He is an amazing calibrator (he did one of mine tv's) so I have no doubt he can help. Have you tried turning on a lamp? I know it defeats the purpose a bit but it will completely eliminate the red tint from my experience. I have a small lamp by my couch that I have on regardless that isn't bright and I can't see the tint at all when it's on.
post #1148 of 2557
I use the Ideal-Lume bias lighting when I watch movies. I think this is probably one of the reasons it took me so long to discover this issue.
post #1149 of 2557
Wow. Decided to really look at this issue on my 500M. It's really bad. Pretty much uniform but that's no consolation. I had a great TV . . . once. frown.gif
post #1150 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

Wow. Decided to really look at this issue on my 500M. It's really bad. Pretty much uniform but that's no consolation. I had a great TV . . . once. frown.gif

I really feel for you... I know what it feels like as i'm sure many others do. It gets into your head no doubt about it. My last KRP500A had the affliction in a bad way. It was fixed (reset and re-adjusted to the best of my amateur ability) eventually before it was sold on. But even now with my new 500m with extremely low hours i still find my eyes being drawn to the right hand side of the glass and the top right when showing blacks on about each time i have done so so far - maybe ten times. Almost a subconscious habit even - maybe even slight paranoia tbh eek.gif

Of course it's just black but i can't help it, i'm sure it will subside with time - i think eek.gif lol.

I think the best way to help the situation would be to get expert technical help, for the sake of a few hundred bucks it would transform the screen and the perception you have of it at this moment in time. Any Pioneer Kuro plasma is just too good to be worrying about if it can be somehow sorted imho smile.gif

My 2 cents
post #1151 of 2557
I'd be more than willing to have the set fixed but I can't seem to find what's wrong with on the net. Am I missing something? Can I get this fixed professionally?

Crappy iPhone photo . . .

post #1152 of 2557
DP
post #1153 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

I'd be more than willing to have the set fixed but I can't seem to find what's wrong with on the net. Am I missing something? Can I get this fixed professionally?

Crappy iPhone photo . . .


I can see the red tint in your pic and that's exactly what mine looked like (obviously it is more pronounced in person). I say looked because I finally decided to move on and sell it. All I can tell you is that a calibrator will most likely be able to improve your image but the red tint can't be fixed (as far as I know) unless you do the reset and then you risk damaging it even further. The tint will never fully go away nor has Pioneer acknowledged or fixed this issue. I know a few (and I stress few) have had luck with Pioneer swapping their set or installing a new screen (I think it is literally a couple of people) but this can't be repaired without replacing the plasma itself or resetting it. I almost did the reset on mine because it was out of warranty but I was worried I would do more damage in the long run. I got an amazing offer on my set and finally decided to move on.

Now I have to decide what to do next. Another plasma, a close out Elite lcd, or maybe even a low hours 151 smile.gif.

I honestly can relate because when I found the red tint I was pretty horrified. Mine wasn't bad but from what I have read it gets worse over time on some sets. Mine was definitely more pronounced compared to when I first noticed it. Of course most people I showed it to could not see the tint. If I had never found this thread over a year ago, I probably would never have noticed it (since I don't watch movies in the dark anymore). It's hard to unsee though once you know it's there.

My advice is to get D-Nice or another good calibrator to calibrate the set. If you don't want to do that and it bothers you this much during viewing, maybe it's time to move on. It's frustrating and believe me I understand first hand.
Edited by YOTR - 7/25/13 at 6:48am
post #1154 of 2557
Thanks for the info. On this issue I found it first and searched it out. Bummer really. I just bought a new Denon 4000 and was looking forward to buying and Oppo BDP soon. Not really in the mood to watch movies on it now. It was such a pleasure owning this TV for awhile. D-Nice calibrated it awhile back and I remember throwing on Batman and thinking holy cow this is awesome. Saving up for a new panel is not that bad I guess but I have no idea what I'd buy, I was hoping this TV would have lasted until OLED and other advancements made it easy to upgrade. mad.gif
post #1155 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

Thanks for the info. On this issue I found it first and searched it out. Bummer really. I just bought a new Denon 4000 and was looking forward to buying and Oppo BDP soon. Not really in the mood to watch movies on it now. It was such a pleasure owning this TV for awhile. D-Nice calibrated it awhile back and I remember throwing on Batman and thinking holy cow this is awesome. Saving up for a new panel is not that bad I guess but I have no idea what I'd buy, I was hoping this TV would have lasted until OLED and other advancements made it easy to upgrade. mad.gif

I was the same way. This tv was supposed to last me a few more years at least ( I had mine for a little over 3 years) until OLED became more affordable or something else matched it. I am not sure I will go plasma again but lcd does not impress me at all (except for an elite lcd but it's still really expensive). I thought about just getting a mid level lcd and just upgrading in 2-3 years again but I haven't made up my mind yet (dreading the inevitable cloud/flashlighting issues). I am so used to having a plasma that doesn't exhibit IR at all, so the new panasonic's scare me a bit (even though most users are reporting no IR issues on the new VT60's).

I am sure you could get a good amount for your set if you wanted to go down that road. I agree though it's not an easy decision on what to replace it with though.
post #1156 of 2557
I don't think I could ever do an LCD set even the Elites. Something about the look to me that doesn't sit well. I'll have to get another plasma but I hate doing it now. I may wait until next year to see if there are any improvements in the tech and just suffer through the deepest red blacks on the market. rolleyes.gif I wonder what I could get for the 500M? I'll have to check and see what people are selling them for on craigs or ebay.
post #1157 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

I don't think I could ever do an LCD set even the Elites. Something about the look to me that doesn't sit well. I'll have to get another plasma but I hate doing it now. I may wait until next year to see if there are any improvements in the tech and just suffer through the deepest red blacks on the market. rolleyes.gif I wonder what I could get for the 500M? I'll have to check and see what people are selling them for on craigs or ebay.

The viewing angle issue is what bugs me about LCD's (along with the clouding. flashlighting, and black levels) so it is hard for me to consider one also. I have a feeling I will just cave and get a plasma again but I am trying to consider everything. If it really does bother you this much, I would sell it now. Mine annoyed me but I could have held onto it for another year. I just happened to get an amazing offer so I finally decided to jump. I am not sure what you could get but I would say $1000-$1500 is a good guess. That would go a long way towards a new set.
post #1158 of 2557
Well I guess it's time to start researching. I need to see if I can at least wait until next year's crop of plasma TV''s to see if I can at least stay on a par with the 500M in it's less red days. Maybe I'll throw a hook out on Craigslist to see if I get any bites. Will you explain to my wife why I need to get a replacement TV? smile.gif
post #1159 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by VidPro View Post

Well I guess it's time to start researching. I need to see if I can at least wait until next year's crop of plasma TV''s to see if I can at least stay on a par with the 500M in it's less red days. Maybe I'll throw a hook out on Craigslist to see if I get any bites. Will you explain to my wife why I need to get a replacement TV? smile.gif

LOL! It is hard to convince someone especially if you are the only person seeing the tint. None of my friends could spot it. One of them finally did but he didn't think it was that big of a deal. The current panasonics are as dark (at least in my opinion) as any of the kuro's except the 500m or 101. This is coming from ex Kuro owner now also. I'm not a hardcore videophile like I was a few years ago though (kids, other priorities) so the VT60 is close enough to me. Honestly though I think you would be splitting hairs at this point with regards to black level. The VT70 (or whatever it may be called) will probably be a tad darker but I don't know how noticeable it will be compared to this years model. It's up to you in the end. If you can deal with the red tint for another 6-12 months, then do that and see what's out there. Otherwise sell it and get the VT60 or ZT60. I sold mine because I knew I would never get an offer like that again for a 3+ year old tv and I was concerned about the red tint.
post #1160 of 2557
YOTR. A reset won't do any harm as long as it is done properly then tweaked for previous ageing. A bloke in Germany had his done by Pioneer techs/engineers about two years ago. No panel replacement was needed. They would have used some sort of equipment for correctly measuring voltages after resetting
post #1161 of 2557
If I could get Pio techs out to do the work I'd call right now.
post #1162 of 2557
^ I have a 151 that looked somewhat like VidPro's after ~7k hours. Bear in mind he has the "elevated red in 0/black issue", not the much more serious and intolerable red screen that was the initial panic-point of this thread. That latter one has darker reds that start in one part of the screen and eventually covers the whole screen with somewhat varying intensity. Everyone can see that. What VidPro has is very light and even, and as YOTR said, people who aren't used to the display don't really notice it especially during regular programming. What VidPro has is also not to be confused with the slight magenta/violet/purple tinge you can see from 9G screens, sometimes even when they're turned off in the right light, that is perfectly normal. <- That was a summary of things already said in this thread...

VidPro's problem can be fixed by anybody who knows *exactly* what to do in less than 10 minutes after entering your house. That includes setting up and running through the appropriate built-in test patterns, and even a few iterations to make the minimum change required to do the job. Your black contrast ratio could easily improve by over 100X (1000!) over that with the "red tint" if you want to play the numbers game at max output...it certainly is very visible and *may* be even better than when new, being that these are mass-produced items.

This is not something that can be done *properly* over the net or phone, just as a calibration cannot since it is totally device dependent. It requires some knowledge, some minimal equipment (at least to fix this exact problem), but more to the point, it requires somebody with the required knowledge to be physically there. That last is the cost part: while the person who meets those requirements has to travel to get there, they might as well do "other things", like a cal, and maybe adjust the primaries first if you're a "perfectionist". The relatively few people who know exactly what to do possibly have to come from far away, if they're even willing or able to at all. An independent calibrator who is earning an actual living by doing it cannot typically afford to just specialize in one type/brand of display, so may not have the exact knowledge to fix this problem (it can't be "calibrated" out), but some certainly do. IOW it's not going to be really cheap to fix unless you're willing to do the work yourself. These displays are amazing feats of engineering and chemistry which you'll really only truly appreciate if you do the technical education yourself. They are very adjustable for aging/deterioration, and what you don't want to do is reset the panel to make the system think it's a brand new one when it's not. [Edit: What Stu03 said while I was typing is true, but is a much more complicated and unnecessary procedure, with potential negative future ramifications, for *this* particular problem.]

Bear in mind what I said is based on viewing a pic of VidPro's display taken with I'm presuming an uncalibrated phone camera and viewed here on an uncalibrated computer monitor (I really oughta fix that lol...). To reiterate: someone's gotta be there.
Edited by cfraser - 7/25/13 at 9:59am
post #1163 of 2557
Hi and thanks for that info. As crappy as that iPhone image is it's pretty good at showing what I am seeing. If anything the tint is brighter in real life. Until this issue I was thinking of having the TV calibrated again by D-Nice if possible. I'd gladly pay for that and a repair to get my Kuro back.
post #1164 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

YOTR. A reset won't do any harm as long as it is done properly then tweaked for previous ageing. A bloke in Germany had his done by Pioneer techs/engineers about two years ago. No panel replacement was needed. They would have used some sort of equipment for correctly measuring voltages after resetting

If the actual pioneer tech would do it, I would have been okay with that. I just didn't want to attempt it myself and mess something up only to have a brick in my house afterwards. My friend has the same issue a few blocks away and Pioneer came out and wouldn't do anything. The tech even heard about the red tint issue but stated he could not reset the set. Pioneer keeps saying the same thing that it was normal and within spec. His was worse than mine (he has a 500m by the way that started developing it way before mine).
post #1165 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

^ I have a 151 that looked somewhat like VidPro's after ~7k hours. Bear in mind he has the "elevated red in 0/black issue", not the much more serious and intolerable red screen that was the initial panic-point of this thread. That latter one has darker reds that start in one part of the screen and eventually covers the whole screen with somewhat varying intensity. Everyone can see that. What VidPro has is very light and even, and as YOTR said, people who aren't used to the display don't really notice it especially during regular programming. What VidPro has is also not to be confused with the slight magenta/violet/purple tinge you can see from 9G screens, sometimes even when they're turned off in the right light, that is perfectly normal. <- That was a summary of things already said in this thread...

VidPro's problem can be fixed by anybody who knows *exactly* what to do in less than 10 minutes after entering your house. That includes setting up and running through the appropriate built-in test patterns, and even a few iterations to make the minimum change required to do the job. Your black contrast ratio could easily improve by over 100X (1000!) over that with the "red tint" if you want to play the numbers game at max output...it certainly is very visible and *may* be even better than when new, being that these are mass-produced items.

This is not something that can be done *properly* over the net or phone, just as a calibration cannot since it is totally device dependent. It requires some knowledge, some minimal equipment (at least to fix this exact problem), but more to the point, it requires somebody with the required knowledge to be physically there. That last is the cost part: while the person who meets those requirements has to travel to get there, they might as well do "other things", like a cal, and maybe adjust the primaries first if you're a "perfectionist". The relatively few people who know exactly what to do possibly have to come from far away, if they're even willing or able to at all. An independent calibrator who is earning an actual living by doing it cannot typically afford to just specialize in one type/brand of display, so may not have the exact knowledge to fix this problem (it can't be "calibrated" out), but some certainly do. IOW it's not going to be really cheap to fix unless you're willing to do the work yourself. These displays are amazing feats of engineering and chemistry which you'll really only truly appreciate if you do the technical education yourself. They are very adjustable for aging/deterioration, and what you don't want to do is reset the panel to make the system think it's a brand new one when it's not. [Edit: What Stu03 said while I was typing is true, but is a much more complicated and unnecessary procedure, with potential negative future ramifications, for *this* particular problem.]

Bear in mind what I said is based on viewing a pic of VidPro's display taken with I'm presuming an uncalibrated phone camera and viewed here on an uncalibrated computer monitor (I really oughta fix that lol...). To reiterate: someone's gotta be there.

Great post. I first noticed mine in the top right and bottom right corners of the set (red was coming out of hte bezel it seemed). Over the months it looked a lot like his picture does. When I turn off all the lights in my house and just put it on a black input, the set definitely had a red tint to it. I noticed recently that even with a light on in the room, you could faintly see the red tint on a blank input (most people probably wouldn't have seen it though).

VidPro, if you could get D-Nice to come to your area again (or if he is touring), he is the one I would go with. He calibrated mine in the past and to me if anyone can at least mask or alleviate some of the tint, he is the person to go with. Plus he could restore your black levels back to a more acceptable level which might help with the tint. It might not all go away, but you may be able to live with it. Again a calibration is another $400-$500 dollars so that is up to you. I trust D-Nice big time though.

I know I was about due for another calibration in the fall if I had kept it. My black levels were still good with a light on but in a dark room, they had a grey look to them (I know they were not like that a couple of years ago).
post #1166 of 2557
As best I can tell from VidPro's pic, and if my interpretation is correct*, I am as close to 100% sure as possible (don't want to speak for him) D-Nice could put that back to normal *before* he did a cal. It would be better than brand new then if you consider the cal...

* I don't see why it shouldn't be if the "red tint" is even and came "all at once" (but you may have really only noticed it later, this thread doesn't help there lol...). I have seen 9G sets with the real "red problem", and they sure don't look like that, they are completely intolerable IMO. 151 or 500M, it's the same thing that needs to be done, according to the manuals...

Also, you must visually evaluate *with* a video input, even if it's 100% black (i.e. 0% luminance) due to the way these sets operate. To clarify what I said above, you use the built-in patterns for their intended evaluation purpose when making the required adjustment(s), after visually evaluating that something even needs to be done in the first place.
Edited by cfraser - 7/25/13 at 12:28pm
post #1167 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

If the actual pioneer tech would do it, I would have been okay with that. I just didn't want to attempt it myself and mess something up only to have a brick in my house afterwards. My friend has the same issue a few blocks away and Pioneer came out and wouldn't do anything. The tech even heard about the red tint issue but stated he could not reset the set. Pioneer keeps saying the same thing that it was normal and within spec. His was worse than mine (he has a 500m by the way that started developing it way before mine).

Yes it's definitely not covered by any sort of warranty or anything, it's a thing paid for separately out of warranty (even in warranty). They wouldn't be able to cover something like that in warranty because imagine the time and money it would cost pio even if enough techs were able to do it, well it's what i think anyway. All manufacturers have rules as to what is covered and what isn't and it varies, anything not covered in the written rules is paid for by customer presumably if the manufacturer won't. I don't know if all Pioneer guys would do it but the one i spoke to here in the UK said anything is fixable. They will imho know much more about it than letting on. But when i spoke to the guy on the phone (service centre not pioneer customer service) he mentioned a voltage on the relevant to the Y board after a reset for ridding a certain type of artifact i asked about. But he didn't say exactly what voltage as he wasn't permitted to say so.

I couldn't see any artefacts after a bit of patience and practice and the guy who bought it loves it, so presumably it's not visible, or if it is maybe only nose up at screen and most don't watch like that wink.gif
Edited by Stu03 - 7/25/13 at 12:52pm
post #1168 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Yes it's definitely not covered by any sort of warranty or anything, it's a thing paid for separately out of warranty (even in warranty). They wouldn't be able to cover something like that in warranty because imagine the time and money it would cost pio even if enough techs were able to do it, well it's what i think anyway. All manufacturers have rules as to what is covered and what isn't and it varies, anything not covered in the written rules is paid for by customer presumably if the manufacturer won't. I don't know if all Pioneer guys would do it but the one i spoke to here in the UK said anything is fixable. They will imho know much more about it than letting on. But when i spoke to the guy on the phone he mentioned a voltage on the relevant to the Y board after a reset for ridding a certain type of artifact i asked about. But he didn't say exactly what voltage as he wasn't permitted to say so.

I couldn't see any artefacts after a bit of patience and practice and the guy who bought it loves it, so presumably it's not visible, or if it is maybe only nose up at screen and most don't watch like that wink.gif

In the US, they won't touch it. They don't offere a seperate service that you can pay for so they will reset it in or out of warranty. I mean if you wanted to buy an entirely new panel through warranty (the glass itself not an entirely new set), maybe that's an option but there probably isn't stock left and it would cost a fortune. So maybe in the UK it is different but in the US, there is no option. You either deal with the red tint, get your set calibrated to mask or remove some of it (heck maybe you discover you don't have the true red tint issue), you deal with it for the time being, or you sell it.

For me it was time to move on. I love Pioneer and they have been my only tv brand for over 5 years. I have had quite a few Kuro's over the years so it's unfortunate it had to end this way. I truly hope your set does not have the issue down the road. It's rare to find one with so few hours on it like yours. I have 6 friends I know that have various Kuro models and they all have the red tint issue except one (he has a 151 but it has less than 1000 hours on it). Some worse than others, some had it appear way quicker or later than another set. My friends 500m had it appear at the 500-600 hour mark. Mine appeared at around the 2500-3000 hour mark as far as I can tell. It seems to vary.
post #1169 of 2557
It definitely does vary you are certainly spot on there. I just wish the people who tweaked the red tint out ages ago in the past or reset and re-adjusted would come back on thread and report any returning of the tint or not as the case may be. Or if any ramifications have happened, because it must be nearly two years now since it all started, people trying to help themselves. Maybe they are still fine and have just gone back to enjoying instead of analysing like us - or maybe sold up and moved on to something new. Be nice to find out about some but it's looking more and more unlikely now the more time that passes any updates sadly
post #1170 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

For me it was time to move on. I love Pioneer and they have been my only tv brand for over 5 years. I have had quite a few Kuro's over the years so it's unfortunate it had to end this way. I truly hope your set does not have the issue down the road. It's rare to find one with so few hours on it like yours. I have 6 friends I know that have various Kuro models and they all have the red tint issue except one (he has a 151 but it has less than 1000 hours on it). Some worse than others, some had it appear way quicker or later than another set. My friends 500m had it appear at the 500-600 hour mark. Mine appeared at around the 2500-3000 hour mark as far as I can tell. It seems to vary.
I am continually reminded by some (or one at least) how Pioneer is superior to the competition in nearly every measurable way even today. This just doesn't seem to jibe with that narrative. And I loved my 111FD (no detectable red tint after about 2000-2500 hours), DSE and all, but it was time for an upgrade.
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