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Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 41

post #1201 of 2557
I have a 101, 3 years old, 5000 hours on it, and i can notice some red artificats on a black screen in the pitch dark. Also dont think it's as black as it was initially. Also, there is some small pieces of the screen peeling(doesnt affect viewing the tv at all)

Still the best tv i have seen, tho the sony 4k tv is impressive.
post #1202 of 2557
That shows how opinions can be different based on which store you go to because I saw thwe sony 4k set and thought it looked a lot worse than the Samsung one, but I figured all along it was probably their settings or something about the demo.

How would you describe black bars in pitch black, as far as how dark? I am still trying to figure out just how bad my set is compared to normal because the bars are bright enough to really distract me in a pitch black room. To the point where I am buying another set and selling mine... I haven't noticed the red tint so far though.
post #1203 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyqureshi View Post

Well, that joy was a bit short lived:
I see some pixel artifacts on the screen at certain content, here is an example:http://i.imgur.com/0qGUtfK.jpg


What voltages I need to adjust to clear this up?

Edit 1:
These are the default voltages before and after :
VOL SUS 128
VOL OFFSET 113
VOL RST P 026 (Is this too low?)
VOL XPOFS1 085
VOL XPOFS2 063
VOL YKNOFS1 D 138
VOL YKNOFS4 D 149
VOL YKNOFSA D 128

Edit 2:
New values
VOL SUS 170
VOL OFFSET 113
VOL RST P 026
VOL XPOFS1 085
VOL XPOFS2 063
VOL YKNOFS1 D 158
VOL YKNOFS3 D 148
VOL YKNOFS4 D 169
VOL YKNOFSA D 148

I had a combination of windows open (on win 7) that kept the sparkles on, then raised VOL SUS up to 170 and saw the sparkles disappear. After FAN command, a very few sparkles remain. May be need to raise VOL SUS above 190?
Thanks

Did you reset hours meter also ?

I wouldn't raise SUS any higher because it's getting to very high levels. In the service manual it states that if SUS goes up then ABL should be lowered.

But what happens if you put everything back to stock values and put SUS to 152, YKNOFS1D to 118, and YKNOFSAD to 152 But everything else at stock values ?
post #1204 of 2557
I also reset the hours meter.

My Current values are, only SUS was raised to 163 i'm keeping rest as default.

VOL SUS 163
VOL OFFSET 113
VOL RST P 026
VOL XPOFS1 085
VOL XPOFS2 063
VOL YKNOFS1 D 138
VOL YKNOFS4 D 149
VOL YKNOFSA D 128

I played around with other VOLs by keeping SUS to the default value, which did nothing to the purple sparkles, these disappeared only after I raised SUS to above 160.

I still have inky blacks, but I do see some random white sparkles in dark/semi-dark parts of a scene, mostly depends on the scene ... i will try to lower the ABL and see if these white sparkles disappear ... these appear randomly, you have to be about a 1 ft away from the screen to see them.

I will also try your suggestion of SUS to 152, YKNOFS1D to 118, and YKNOFSAD to 152 and see what happens.
post #1205 of 2557
These aren't magic numbers but just something very similar to what fixed my 500A about 99%.

The thing is that each panel has different amounts of ageing from the next and SUS and a couple of others can be slightly different. My one had nearly 11,000 hours when i reset the first time.

Afaik abl is just a safety measure and isn't really anything to do with artifacts. It's the auto brightness limiter for different HZ.

But as mascoir pointed out and to me a long time ago it's YKNOFS1D (lowering) for ridding white sparkles above black after resetting
Edited by Stu03 - 10/10/13 at 11:30am
post #1206 of 2557
Thanks Stu03, I will just lower the YKNOFS1D and hope that white sparkles disappear.

Did you also reset the pulse meter?
If yes, how long ago and have you noticed anything out of ordinary?

Thanks
post #1207 of 2557

This is my first post in this forum so hello to everybody.

 

Yesterday I have taken the decision to try adjusting the service menu settings of my 5700 hours, ruby-red LX-5090H after having carefully read all your posts in this thread.

I took the "safe" way of not to reset the pulse counter, since it really appears to me that it is something I should absolutely not do, not knowing exactly what the consequences may be in the short and long term and knowing that such action is not reversible.

 

After having played around in sequence with VOL YKNOFSA D, VOL RST P and VOL YKNOFS1 D, I got to the conclusion that there is no real "solution" to the red tint problem. By playing with the voltages the only result that we can get is to lower the luminosity of the "black" (the MLL), and hence "hide" the problem (but not solve it). Anyway this inevitably brings a number of detrimental effects:

  • on the response time of the pixels (just check by using pattern mask 44 after having displayed mask 43 for a few seconds),
  • a much pronounced image retention effect,
  • and almost surely, even worse effects in the long run.

 

Unfortunately I wish that I could find a red cutoff setting in the SM that could simply lower the residual red subpixels' emission in blank screens, but I noticed that the setting found in PANEL-2 ADJ menu is not affecting 0% blacks, and also all other controls specifically relevant to the reds appear not to have any effect on the issue.

 

So, I fully agree with D-Nice, playing with the settings in SM does not lead anywhere, and we're better accept living with a red tinted "black" that is not as black as it should be, or sell the unit and buy a better alternative (though I cannot think of any, at presnt).

 

To cut it short, I restored all the settings to their original values and end of story. This is just a summary of my experience that I wanted to share with you.

post #1208 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyqureshi View Post

Thanks Stu03, I will just lower the YKNOFS1D and hope that white sparkles disappear.

Did you also reset the pulse meter?
If yes, how long ago and have you noticed anything out of ordinary?

Thanks

Yes i reset both.

Had white sparklies above black which was cured by lowering YKNOFS1D. I think the magic number for my 500A was 113. Has red/magenta misfiring on moving images which was cured by raising FSA D to 151/152 something like that. And SUS cures static red/magenta looking misfiring on white/lighter colors by raising SUS to 152.

I reset the 500A few times (first time OCT 2011, very last time FEB this year) (because of all the playing around) and these three worked for me the very last time. I didn't touch anything else the last time or RSTP which factory value was 18. The manual low colors had to be changed and the brightness/gamma control. After resetting my gamma was 2 or 3 and brightness +3 or +4.

That 500 is sold now to a friend here in Scotland - and have my new 500m now which i am keeping fingers crossed doesn't end up developing red tint or the other issue of raised MLL.

But this new one is just past 520 odd hours now and the image gets better all the time. Super dark which looks like it is only about one quarter of a click of the brightness setting (if you know what i mean) from being off on an all black screen....It has gotten quite a bit darker since i bought it at 24.5hrs. Then it was about one click of the brightness setting/control above absolute black. But now my eyes have to adjust for a good minute in blackout to tell it's even on after this last 50 or so hours. Something has changed automatically internally - either very gradually or all of a sudden. I don't know because i don't always watch in the dark until last thing at night and during the day it looks black all the time anyway.

Sincerely hope it stays that way as i couldn't be bothered with all the resets/adjustments again tbh. I just hope the components and/or algorithms last the distance this time because i won't find a better display until OLED U-HD comes down in price and with it the massive lag issues they have being early gen which is important to me being a pretty keen gamer
Edited by Stu03 - 10/12/13 at 11:33am
post #1209 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by onununo View Post

This is my first post in this forum so hello to everybody.

Yesterday I have taken the decision to try adjusting the service menu settings of my 5700 hours, ruby-red LX-5090H after having carefully read all your posts in this thread.
I took the "safe" way of not to reset the pulse counter, since it really appears to me that it is something I should absolutely not do, not knowing exactly what the consequences may be in the short and long term and knowing that such action is not reversible.

After having played around in sequence with VOL YKNOFSA D, VOL RST P and VOL YKNOFS1 D, I got to the conclusion that there is no real "solution" to the red tint problem. By playing with the voltages the only result that we can get is to lower the luminosity of the "black" (the MLL), and hence "hide" the problem (but not solve it). Anyway this inevitably brings a number of detrimental effects:
  • on the response time of the pixels (just check by using pattern mask 44 after having displayed mask 43 for a few seconds),
  • a much pronounced image retention effect,
  • and almost surely, even worse effects in the long run.

Unfortunately I wish that I could find a red cutoff setting in the SM that could simply lower the residual red subpixels' emission in blank screens, but I noticed that the setting found in PANEL-2 ADJ menu is not affecting 0% blacks, and also all other controls specifically relevant to the reds appear not to have any effect on the issue.

So, I fully agree with D-Nice, playing with the settings in SM does not lead anywhere, and we're better accept living with a red tinted "black" that is not as black as it should be, or sell the unit and buy a better alternative (though I cannot think of any, at presnt).

To cut it short, I restored all the settings to their original values and end of story. This is just a summary of my experience that I wanted to share with you.

Sorry to hear playing around with the voltages didn't work out for you.

I reckon yours is a classic example of why Pioneer Germany performed a complete clearance/reset before re-adjustment of the guys voltages on his LX5090H in Germany a eighteen or so months back
Edited by Stu03 - 10/12/13 at 8:52am
post #1210 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stookza View Post

thx Stu smile.gif

Yes i meant for that.

But when i close the tv with the standby like u said, it doesnt work. frown.gif

I mean that the voltage settings are saved but the picture is not the same as like when im inside of the voltage adjusments..

So to enjoy the best picture quality which i like, i mean for strong backlight, shining white, high luminanace and contrast, i always have to watch it inside the service menu while the menu is on the background

And only after i clicked ok to enter specific to the voltage settings again i get that picture which i like and when i exit i lose that picture again but not the settings.
I know what this dude is talking about. When you enter the service menu and alter the settings the whites are much stronger, blacks are blacker etc and then when you turn it off and on again to watch content it isn't the same as it looks when in the service menu.

I always thought that perhaps the picture in the service menu was using a different 'setting' like dynamic etc and didn't think much of it.

Can you guys confirm you see the same effect when in the service menu vs normal?

As Stookza says, the actual changes stay in the menu, but the picture definitely is different.
post #1211 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Yes i reset both.

Had white sparklies above black which was cured by lowering YKNOFS1D. I think the magic number for my 500A was 113. Has red/magenta misfiring on moving images which was cured by raising FSA D to 151/152 something like that. And SUS cures static red/magenta looking misfiring on white/lighter colors by raising SUS to 152.

I reset the 500A few times (first time OCT 2011, very last time FEB this year) (because of all the playing around) and these three worked for me the very last time. I didn't touch anything else the last time or RSTP which factory value was 18. The manual low colors had to be changed and the brightness/gamma control. After resetting my gamma was 2 or 3 and brightness +3 or +4.

That 500 is sold now to a friend here in Scotland - and have my new 500m now which i am keeping fingers crossed doesn't end up developing red tint or the other issue of raised MLL.

But this new one is just past 520 odd hours now and the image gets better all the time. Super dark which looks like it is only about one quarter of a click of the brightness setting (if you know what i mean) from being off on an all black screen....It has gotten quite a bit darker since i bought it at 24.5hrs. Then it was about one click of the brightness setting/control above absolute black. But now my eyes have to adjust for a good minute in blackout to tell it's even on after this last 50 or so hours. Something has changed automatically internally - either very gradually or all of a sudden. I don't know because i don't always watch in the dark until last thing at night and during the day it looks black all the time anyway.

Sincerely hope it stays that way as i couldn't be bothered with all the resets/adjustments again tbh. I just hope the components and/or algorithms last the distance this time because i won't find a better display until OLED U-HD comes down in price and with it the massive lag issues they have being early gen which is important to me being a pretty keen gamer

Well lucky for you that you found a new 500M. I'm hoping that my PRO101-FD can last another 2-3 years so by then 4K OLED TVs would be somewhat affordable. My Kuro still has a beautiful picture though.
post #1212 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyqureshi View Post

Well lucky for you that you found a new 500M. I'm hoping that my PRO101-FD can last another 2-3 years so by then 4K OLED TVs would be somewhat affordable. My Kuro still has a beautiful picture though.

Indeed.

Only a 4K OLED with (no obvious performance issues) to speak of will realistically beat your screen.

Kuro owners are very fortunate - if talking about flat panels and 1080P.

wink.gif
post #1213 of 2557
BOTH of my 500M monitors show the "red pixels" around the center of the screen when I use Save1 or Save2... The red spots are far less apparent when using Standard power management. Luckily the pixels are only visible in very-particular situations, so it's almost a non-issue. For the record, I'm typing this reply on one of my 500Ms, and I can see the red pixels right now, but then again I'm using Save2 tongue.gif
post #1214 of 2557
I was playing with power save modes on the 500M the other day and apart from the obvious drop in contrast/light output the PS1 mode looks very nearly as clean as standard power mode. In fact it is almost imperceptible.

Power save mode 2 has obvious PWM/dither on some solid colors/objects. Blue, white and green was the most notable.

Standard/off is super clean on everything HD if the material allows.

But it has to be under two feet to notice that noise on power save mode 2. So i guess it wouldn't matter in most cases.

But i have never noticed that red pixel thing on Power save 2... But every panel is slightly different by default but i will have another look later
post #1215 of 2557
Speaking of that..... in D-nice's early reviews of elites, where he made setting suggestions he says to have the power saving mode on something and I never understood why. I always have it turned off, figuring it will mess whites and high contrast scenes up.
post #1216 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Speaking of that..... in D-nice's early reviews of elites, where he made setting suggestions he says to have the power saving mode on something and I never understood why.
Don't sweat it, BOTH of my 500M's show the same red spots, and they have almost the same amount of hours, but one used Save2 almost 80% of the time, where the other was only using Save2 for ~30% of the time.
post #1217 of 2557
I am going to be mad if this new 111 has this issue. (new to me, still used)
post #1218 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

I am going to be mad if this new 111 has this issue. (new to me, still used)

When does this 111 land ?
post #1219 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Speaking of that..... in D-nice's early reviews of elites, where he made setting suggestions he says to have the power saving mode on something and I never understood why. I always have it turned off, figuring it will mess whites and high contrast scenes up.

Are you sure ?

I always thought he suggested them being off, especially before calibration
post #1220 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

I am going to be mad if this new 111 has this issue. (new to me, still used)

Did you ever solve your black level issue?
post #1221 of 2557
stu, I could have sworn that I saw many times that he said power saving not off, but now I see he has it listed as off. I don't think I was confusing the orbiter mode either, so I am really confused.

soprano, no, I bought another of the same model also unseen.... And so now I will have to sell one or the other. I hope I didn't gets crewed over again.
post #1222 of 2557
You really need to see these things in person before you buy. Do you know how many hours are on it?
post #1223 of 2557
I already told him that. It's no use.
post #1224 of 2557
Can't. It's not like elites are raining from the skies. If they're so likely to be bad that I shouldn't risk them, then they are overrated. Everyone always insisted they were built so perfectly.
post #1225 of 2557
Not a 9G but, my 2007 PRO-150FD is going strong and still renders a great image.
post #1226 of 2557
I guess I have no choice but to give up. I'll probably keep my old one and sell the new one. Same or even worse black level. Guess I will never know for sure if it's my eye issues causing them to all look that way or if I was lucky enough to get two with the same problem. Also, for a calibrated tv, it seems off to me. Even with the Disney wow disc advanced brightness it seems like it's not dark enough.

Apparently I am going to have to be unhappy for years. And now when I sell one of them, watch someone will buy it and get mad and demand me let them return it, when I've been stuck with both of these. I am always the one stuck with everything and then I'm blamed when others don't like something I sell.

I guess i'll have to keep my old one because why try to sell one with a messed up hdmi input I would have to mention when I don't ened it anyway so can sell this one and it have no issues other than if this black level is messed up, which I will never know.

I didn't see any red tint, but maybe the black level is so bad I can't find it. lol The only thing better on this one than mine is that this one is not making popping noises like mine. hopefully mine will pop, pop, pop and finally break totally while still under warranty.... but even if it did, there's nothing else I can buy because nothing makes me feel any better off. If a calibrator had offered to check black level cheaply, at least I would have known what's up, but for them to come and spend like 2 minutes on it they all want half as much as a full calibration. I really need to just hope a relative wants one of these.
post #1227 of 2557
Having a calibrator measure your current TV would've been less expensive than the path you've taken..."just sayin'."
post #1228 of 2557
That's so true. You could've had a calibrater check out your first 111, somelogin, instead of buying a new one and your issue would of definitely been solved. Contact D-Nice or something.


But since you said the black levels are the same, my guess is the kuros blacks doesn't impress you.
post #1229 of 2557
It wouldn't have been solved, necessarily. Whether or not it's a true problem would be discovered, but if it turns out it is indeed a bad level, it wouldn't solve anything.

I've contacted him, but he hasn't answered lately. And too bad I bought this second one because a 101 popped up which is very possibly in an area d0nice would be in and I could have paid d-nice to calibrate it out there before I get it, where it would at least be close, despite not my actual lighting. Then we'd know for sure what level it has too.

As I've said before, I was impressed with the ST50 black level and the ST30 black level and the Samsung D7000 black level. So if this is normal and I'm not impressed, then the elites have worse black levels than those, which everyone claims is not true.
post #1230 of 2557
The second 111 appears to me to look a bit more 3D. I wonder what contributes to that. COuld it be since it was calibrated? Would accurate grayscale be what would lead to a more three dimensional look to the picture? It couldn't be contrast, I don't think, because it seems to me to have a worse black level than mine or the same.
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