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Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 48

post #1411 of 2557
that's a bad omen
just read the guide from top to bottom not the other way wink.gif


STOP!
DONT DO IT!!!
i just remember one post about your model...but now i have forgot it.
what was it again?.
something about a fire after the reset?



just joking
Edited by pg_ice - 12/29/13 at 9:23am
post #1412 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

I bet if I look at ^ his post history, I will find posts where he had a problem with some electronics. I love, also, how you imply that a product not working properly is the fault of the person who bought it, not who made it. lol
We all face electronics issues at some point, but we're definitely not as unreasonable as you are when it comes to finding a solution for it online, people literally told you every single viable option to help you out but you kept on beating the poor dead horse. So I felt like they should know this if they haven't seen your whole Kuro black level arguments before, resetting the entire panel isn't a walk in the park.
post #1413 of 2557
Main thing I am worried about is that there will be differences navigating the menu and also the settings. What if something is so different about the 111 that one of the numbers is supposed to be totally different? Also, as the panel ages, do the voltage numbers change themselves or do they always remain the same and other things change?

Hopefully I can try this soon! I am just waiting on the cables to get here and then I have to either lug my stupid desktop into another room or borrow someone's laptop. Hopefully those are my only problems, as they would be minor small. smile.gif

Oh, by the way, is there anything else I need to look for when deciding if a voltage setting needs to be changed, other than the sparkles on white or the blobs on black? I wonder if it will also be difficult to be sure if I have the settings right since really you'd need a true calibration to know for sure if something is still not right/

Let's say after I think I have the settings right, I then notice in pitch black it's glowing too much. Would there be something else to change in the voltage settings to get it darker, or would there be nothing left to try?
post #1414 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Hopefully I can try this soon! I am just waiting on the cables to get here

do it now! smile.gif
i dont understand
you said that you had connection with the Kuro and now you dont have any cables?

just do it and post comments after the reset
it will be interesting to hear about the result
post #1415 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Let's say after I think I have the settings right, I then notice in pitch black it's glowing too much. Would there be something else to change in the voltage settings to get it darker, or would there be nothing left to try?

the answer is in the guide
i added it yesterday.

i will not answer anything more until you have done the reset tongue.gif
post #1416 of 2557
how is it going somelogin?
to Slow
SPEED UP! smile.gif
post #1417 of 2557
Last night I successfully got my laptop to finally communicate with my Kuro using a program called KuroControl, apparently written by an AVS Forum member. However, I feel extremely uncomfortable with the thought of resetting my Kuro using this particular program. I am unable to use Hyperterminal. pg_ice recommends using the program ControlCAL. I'm considering purchasing a ControlCAL registered activation key so that I can do the full reset on my KRP-500M. Someone please tell me that I can feel safe using ControlCAL. smile.gif
post #1418 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post

I guess you could come over and I could show you. I am not sure how you can be so sure what I am looking at,is it .00004? . Not sure about that , but MUCH BLACKER than .0002, maybe .00008 or .00007 ????

Please show us your measurements, what meter and what software are you using. ?
Yes I have owned two 8G Kuro's and one 9G Kuro.
If it was someone other than you taking the measurements then what meter did they use.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicaband View Post

A word of advice to whoever is encouraging somelogin to do the reset, be prepared to troubleshoot with him for the rest of your lives.

Yes you are 100% correct, there is no manufacture setting reset for service mode.
If someone is tempted to go into the service mode, take screen shots and log everything you do, be very careful.

I would also suggest going back in this thread and compare what others have done in the service menu.

Remember the service menu is meant for trained service technicians.

ss
post #1419 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

Last night I successfully got my laptop to finally communicate with my Kuro using a program called KuroControl, apparently written by an AVS Forum member. However, I feel extremely uncomfortable with the thought of resetting my Kuro using this particular program. I am unable to use Hyperterminal. pg_ice recommends using the program ControlCAL. I'm considering purchasing a ControlCAL registered activation key so that I can do the full reset on my KRP-500M. Someone please tell me that I can feel safe using ControlCAL. smile.gif

I was a beta tester for Controlcal back in the 8G Kuro days, and wouldn't have been without CC when calibrating my 8 and 9G Kuros.

Unless things have changed, the full reset is for ISF and other users modes, not service mode.
I also recall a program that would work with CC that you could use to check how many hours where on your Kuro.

Maybe Turbe can explain what can and can't be done using CC.
Anyway I would ask Turbe about using CC and service menu. wink.gif

ss
post #1420 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

pg_ice recommends using the program ControlCAL. I'm considering purchasing a ControlCAL registered activation key so that I can do the full reset on my KRP-500M. Someone please tell me that I can feel safe using ControlCAL. smile.gif

You do not need ControlCal to perform a reset.
Edited by GF21 - 12/29/13 at 2:57pm
post #1421 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Please show us your measurements, what meter and what software are you using. ?
Yes I have owned two 8G Kuro's and one 9G Kuro.
If it was someone other than you taking the measurements then what meter did they use.?


ss

Silly

D-Nice calibrated by Pioneer 101 (tweaked the black level) , D-Nice used a Klein meter to calibrate and measure the MLL of .0002 . not sure of the software used .

Unrelated to the D-Nice calibration , I made ONE adjustment in the service menu that lowered the MLL to even a lower level , I did this before and unrelated to PG ICE posting he had lowered his Pioneer to very dark black levels using the same adjustment , I do not have a way to measure the black level only to say it is MUCH lower than the .0002 MLL , I can change the adjustment back and forth at any time to compare , I have not noticed any loss of detail or PQ issues ,I have my display in an all black room with no outside light coming in . I can only estimate what the MLL would measure now ,

I do NOT recommend making any service menu adjustments to anyone , if you do you make them @ your own risk .
Edited by qwknuf6 - 12/29/13 at 4:56pm
post #1422 of 2557
qwknuf6, what exactly did you do and what is the secret black mode by D-Nice ?
Edited by GF21 - 12/29/13 at 3:38pm
post #1423 of 2557
Thanks for the replies, guys. Please disregard my prior few posts.

I just now discovered how to access the service menu using KuroControl. I even (very carefully) navigated a little bit through the menu structure, just to see what it was like. I even got to check out my panel hours, which was over 5,000 hours. I thought that was pretty cool.
Edited by Shawn1 - 12/29/13 at 3:47pm
post #1424 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by GF21 View Post

qwknuf6, what exactly did you do and what is the secret black mode by D-Nice ?

read the guide at page 43 its simple
but you should do the reset first.

secret black mod by D-Nice is that he uses a software program that he got from a Pioneer Engineer.
we adjust using the service menu and rs232 commands.

Everything on a plasma and the Kuro is driven by different voltages.
colors/gamma/peak brightness/near black brightness
if you adjust voltages with a program or in the service menu doesnt matter.
the end result is the same.

the biggest secret black mod is the reset itself
thats the one that brings back the original blacks and picture quality.
the other tweaks after are just finetuning
Edited by pg_ice - 12/29/13 at 4:06pm
post #1425 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by GF21 View Post

You do not need ControlCal to perform a reset.

true
any program that can send rs232 commands will work.
but i have only used controlcal so no experience with the others.
the workflow is the same with any program.
post #1426 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by GF21 View Post

qwknuf6, what exactly did you do and what is the secret black mode by D-Nice ?

D-Nice has his own software , I do not know what he does to lower black levels , I used the same adjustment in the service menu that PG ICE used . See his post .
post #1427 of 2557
D-Nice doesn't perform any resets, his changed settings should be to determine ? Does someine have a TV moded by D-Nice ?
post #1428 of 2557
My advice FWIW about the reset process. First, if you have a red tint, or rising blacks, try to get you set recalibrated to see if that will solve your problem. If that doesn't work, you can choose to live with it, call a repairman, especially if you are lucky enough to still have a warranty. If none of those are acceptable, and you have no problem trying the reset after reading up on it, then go for it. Your tv won't blow up, and in most cases will be better with the tweaks. Do the reset. display a 100 white slide to look for magenta sparkles and a 5% near black slide to look for white sparkles. Pop in a blu ray and watch a movie with a lot of detail and blacks. if it look better, you may not have to tweak much. I did a bunch of tweaking, and in the end only had to raise SUS VOL from 128 to 138 to get rid a of few magenta sparkles and lower YKNOFS1D from 143 to 134 to get slightly better gamma. I also rasied ABL, which really does add some pop. The reset got rid of the red tint and slightly higher blacks. Next just let it settle down for a few hundred hours while the algorithms start doing their thing again. I am not going to say one way or the other to do it. I had nothing to lose. A 5 year old tv, not under warranty, and nothing a recalibration could fix. If it failed, I probably would have got the ZT60. Now, I won't.
post #1429 of 2557
I just did the reset on my KRP-500M. The red tint is completely gone, and I can't believe how black the blacks are. The glow is gone. I'm actually in shock. It really does look like an OLED. However, from what I can see, when I put up some black level test patterns I found on the internet (using the PlayStation 3 browser), details in near black seems to be blended in with the blackness. I wonder if brightness needs to be put up a click. I'm guessing it might be a good idea for me to wait a few hundred hours, so that everything can settle in before I make any more changes.
post #1430 of 2557
GO Shawn1 smile.gif
great work

"I'm actually in shock"
thats the reset in a few words

use the MP4 testpatterns from avshd709 instead.
you have everything there
http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

details in near black seems to be blended in with the blackness. I wonder if brightness needs to be put up a click.

you should wait
do not raise the brightness if you dont need to
its the gamma that is higher and its probably also some undervolting thats why
wait some days and do the test in the guide
Edited by pg_ice - 12/29/13 at 7:22pm
post #1431 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

GO Shawn1 smile.gif
great work

"I'm actually in shock"
thats the reset in a few words
Thank you. Your guide has been invaluable.

I'm looking at a pure black test pattern in a pitch black room, and believe me when I say this... There is no glow coming from the screen. It really does look like my 500M is off. That's a HUGE difference from the slightly reddish-tinted grey glow from before. Amazing.
post #1432 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

Thank you. Your guide has been invaluable.

I'm looking at a pure black test pattern in a pitch black room, and believe me when I say this... There is no glow coming from the screen. It really does look like my 500M is off. That's a HUGE difference from the slightly reddish-tinted grey glow from before. Amazing.

great
btw have you done the tweaks after the reset in the guide?
you should add those new values as fast as possible

these:
Raise VOL SUS to 150-180 (because of previous phosphor ageing it can be safely raised now)
Lower YKNOFS1D to 112.
Lower YKNOFS3D to 124 (may stop tint returning).

wait a few days for this one and do the black test instead
Raise YKNOFSAD to 148.

after that raise ABL smile.gif
post #1433 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

great
btw have you done the tweaks after the reset in the guide?
you should add those new values as fast as possible

these:
Raise VOL SUS to 150-180 (because of previous phosphor ageing it can be safely raised now)
Lower YKNOFS1D to 112.
Lower YKNOFS3D to 124 (may stop tint returning).

wait a few days for this one and do the black test instead
Raise YKNOFSAD to 148.

after that raise ABL wink.gif
pg_ice, immediately after the reset, this is what I changed:

VOL SUS: 128 to 153
YKNOFS1D: 138 to 112
YKNOFS3D: 128 to 124
YKNOFSAD: 128 to 148

That's it. I didn't change anything else.
post #1434 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

great
btw have you done the tweaks after the reset in the guide?
you should add those new values as fast as possible

these:
Raise VOL SUS to 150-180 (because of previous phosphor ageing it can be safely raised now)
Lower YKNOFS1D to 112.
Lower YKNOFS3D to 124 (may stop tint returning).

wait a few days for this one and do the black test instead
Raise YKNOFSAD to 148.

after that raise ABL smile.gif

pg_ice, was curious what your YKNOFS1D was factory set before the reset.
post #1435 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

pg_ice, was curious what your YKNOFS1D was factory set before the reset.

dont know right now
maybe at was 138?
i have the values somewhere
YKNOFS3D was at 128 thats what i know now


just updated the guide again for YKNOFSAD.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361871/official-pioneer-kuro-reddish-tint-problem-thread/1260#post_24033727

"YKNOFSAD: 128 to 148"
not important right now
you can leave it at 128 and do the blacktest later
Edited by pg_ice - 12/29/13 at 7:16pm
post #1436 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

dont know right now
maybe at was 138?
i have the values somewhere
YKNOFS3D was at 128 thats what i know now


just updated the guide again for YKNOFSAD.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1361871/official-pioneer-kuro-reddish-tint-problem-thread/1260#post_24033727

"YKNOFSAD: 128 to 148"
not important right now
you can leave it at 128 and do the blacktest later

Thanks. Mine was at 143 and was just trying to figure out if there was a big range for YKNOFS1D between different tv's. If that is the case lowering to 112 may or may not be good. A lot of settings are at 128 such as SUS VOL and YKNOFSAD, but YKNOFS1D is not one of them.
post #1437 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

Thanks. Mine was at 143 and was just trying to figure out if there was a big range for YKNOFS1D between different tv's. If that is the case lowering to 112 may or may not be good. A lot of settings are at 128 such as SUS VOL and YKNOFSAD, but YKNOFS1D is not one of them.

lowering YKNOFS1D to 112 was Stu03s tip
i have not tested different values with that one yet so i dont know what it changes.
maybe you have?
post #1438 of 2557
It definately changes gamma. Too high, and your screen glows grey instead of black. It can really wash out an image and actually make grey images appear to have a red tint if too high. You get rid of black splotches on empty screen if you jack it up, but then you mess up the inky blacks. I think it one of those numbers you need to let settle down after lowering. You will get that black rain with lower values, but does not affect the image until you get lower than 112 or so. Then you will see black lag during a movie. At least on my tv.
post #1439 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

It definately changes gamma. Too high, and your screen glows grey instead of black. It can really wash out an image and actually make grey images appear to have a red tint if too high. You get rid of black splotches on empty screen if you jack it up, but then you mess up the inky blacks. I think it one of those numbers you need to let settle down after lowering. You will get that black rain with lower values, but does not affect the image until you get lower than 112 or so. Then you will see black lag during a movie. At least on my tv.

ok but from what i have learned is that YKNOFSAD changes all settings at once.
thats the main adjuster
i think its smarter to just leave YKNOFS1D at 112 and only adjust YKNOFSAD

you get the same washed out effect if you raise YKNOFSAD to much

maybe i do some testing with YKNOFS1D tomorrow

i really dont need to do any more tweaking on my Kuro
the picture is so damn good its crazy.
but its allways fun to do some testing..if you can get it even better haha
never satisfied!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

Then you will see black lag during a movie. At least on my tv.
no black lag here.
that means that i still isnt close to the lower limit smile.gif
i think i leave my values as they are
Edited by pg_ice - 12/29/13 at 7:56pm
post #1440 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

ok but from what i have learned is that YKNOFSAD changes all settings at once.
thats the main adjuster
i think its smarter to just leave YKNOFS1D at 112 and only adjust YKNOFSAD

you get the same washed out effect if you raise YKNOFSAD to much

maybe i do some testing with YKNOFS1D tomorrow

i really dont need to do any more tweaking on my Kuro
the picture is so damn good its crazy.
but its allways fun to do some testing..if you can get it even better haha
never satisfied!
no black lag here.
that means that i still isnt close to the lower limit smile.gif
i think i leave my values as they are

Thanks for the explanation. I think you are right about lowering YKNOFS1D to 112. From what i have read, tweaking YKNOFSAD in general does change all settings at once, but usually not in a uniform way like one would expect. So I guess that's why you still have to adjust YKNOFS1D prior to YKNOFSAD. I did lower YKNOFS1D to 115 from 143, but had some magenta sparkles on a moving image until I bumped up YKNOFSAD from 128 to 135, per instructions by Stu03. I set VOL SUS at 150. Lowering YKNOFS1D to 112 does produce inky blacks! Will see how things settle down over the next week before anymore tweaks. Kept my ABL at 230 :-) That ain't a changing!
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