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Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by stroud View Post

Good point about Clearing backup data of EEPROM!! Yes I wouldn't want to do that. As I say I have been into the service menu a few times with hyper terminal and have got used to navigating with the remote once in (a bit like using the Pioneer Service Remote). I usually enter FAY to get into the service menu to make some changes and enter FAN to get out.

I have a UK model PDP-LX5090 with the red tint. Looking at the service manual, the procedure you mention looks very much like the procedure for
Panel replacement.

8.4 ADJUSTMENT WHEN THE SERVICE PANEL ASSY IS REPLACED

After the panel is replaced with one for service, voltage margin adjustment is required.

The procedure is:

Turn the unit on. / [PON]
Enter Factory mode. / [FAY]
Set PM/B1-B5 to CLEAR (to clear the pulse meter). / [CPM]
Set HR-MTR to CLEAR (to clear the hour meter). / [CHM]
Turn the unit off. / [POF]

Turn the unit on. / [PON]
Enter Factory mode. / [FAY]

Enter the tentative setting value of the replacement panel

VOL SUS / [VSU ∗∗∗] 128
VOL OFFSET / [VOF ∗∗∗] VOF indication value
VOL RST P / [VRP ∗∗∗] VRP indication value
VOL XPOFS1 / [VX1 ∗∗∗] 085
VOL XPOFS2 / [VX2 ∗∗∗] 047
VOL YNOFS1 D / [V1F ∗∗∗] V1F indication value
VOL YNOFS3 D / [V3F ∗∗∗] V3F indication value +0
VOL YNOFS4 D / [V4F ∗∗∗] V4F indication value
VOL YNOFSA D / [VYF ∗∗∗] 128

Again this is for replacing the panel, not the red issue. I think I will try to clear the logs and then check the picture and adjust the settings as you have said. Will keep you posted.

Exactly...I think this process is tricking the display into thinking it's a new panel to restart the aging process even though the panel is aged. I did find it interesting lowering the VOL RST P a couple of clicks lowered my MLL from .001 to 0.
post #152 of 2557
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post

I did re-install the ControlCal patch after he left and saw no hint of red tint so I think it's safe to assume the patch is fine. Will the red tint come back...who knows only time will tell. I don't think Pioneer would send out panels with wrong voltages I think each panel just ages differently. I did have a chance to re-calibrate last night and got some interesting results. My D3 Pro is capable of reading down to .001 which is what my panel read before all this. Last night it read 0 which I know is not actually 0 but now my mll is lower than the threshold of my meter! My panel calibrated flawlessly like all Pioneer panels do but my rgb values were different compared to my calibration results prior to all this. Regardless...after all this no red tint and slightly deeper blacks(which I couldn't tell to much of a difference being deeper but my meter did)so I am happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mascior View Post

Exactly...I think this process is tricking the display into thinking it's a new panel to restart the aging process even though the panel is aged. I did find it interesting lowering the VOL RST P a couple of clicks lowered my MLL from .001 to 0.

Great news that the patch didn't mess anything up. I guess once I have my panel reset then that will get rid of the whole panel aging process using the slides and I won't be able to use D-Nice's settings anymore. Oh well I would rather have my pure blacks back . As far as you saying your panel MLL measured lower, I wonder if maybe the settings are a little too dark and some of the blacks are getting crushed. I know you mentioned the MLL is affected when you change the voltage levels. I was thinking that your MLL reading 0 sounded right because I have heard the 500M measures 0.0005 but you said you have a 600M so I guess it is a little higher but I am not sure what it is.

I'm glad others are trying the process out so we can see if this process works in multiple instances and if you guys find out exactly what values need to be changed then we can tell the service techs that come out if they are unfamiliar with it. Thanks!
post #153 of 2557
Okay done it!

Black is back!!!

I will try to explain what I have done so maybe others are in with a chance of fixing theirs. When I say black is back, it really is black. The movie bars are invisible in the dark, and if I put the TV on an unused input, you cannot see the screen at all. There is no difference between screen and bezel.

Before the screen was a kind of dark grey with a red hue / tinge coming from the right hand side, worse at the bottom. All that has completely gone. I was expecting a grey screen at best but black is really black.

Following on from what mascior said earlier, I cleared the pulse meter and the hour meter (just these two, as described in the service manual for replacing the panel). I then turned the TV off and back on. I then checked for any sparkles or screen artefacts and there were none at all on any input (TV and blu ray tested).

That was it, the problem was gone and my blacks had returned.

For good measure I checked the voltages and they were exactly the same as before I cleared the counters (I had made a note of them). My TV had 4000+ hours on it.

I think what is happening is that the TV adjusts itself for various parameters based on average usage over time and somehow after many hours this goes out of sync. I am thinking it may be because we have always used calibrated settings and the panel hasn't been pushed that hard. Maybe Pioneer thinks everyone is using Standard or Dynamic?

All I can say is I am extremely pleased with the result and can't wait to start watching it again. I hadn't noticed how the black luminance had changed over time. It has not only got rid of the red tint, but the whole screen was kind of grey before and this fix got rid of all that. Now I have black again like new.

Brilliant!

Big thanks mascior, you have fixed my TV!

I will post the full procedure soon so hopefully others can try to fix theirs too
post #154 of 2557
This is freakin incredible.. Yes! Please post the complete procedure! Thank you guys!
post #155 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by stroud View Post

Okay done it!

Black is back!!!

I will try to explain what I have done so maybe others are in with a chance of fixing theirs. When I say black is back, it really is black. The movie bars are invisible in the dark, and if I put the TV on an unused input, you cannot see the screen at all. There is no difference between screen and bezel.

Before the screen was a kind of dark grey with a red hue / tinge coming from the right hand side, worse at the bottom. All that has completely gone. I was expecting a grey screen at best but black is really black.

Following on from what mascior said earlier, I cleared the pulse meter and the hour meter (just these two, as described in the service manual for replacing the panel). I then turned the TV off and back on. I then checked for any sparkles or screen artefacts and there were none at all on any input (TV and blu ray tested).

That was it, the problem was gone and my blacks had returned.

For good measure I checked the voltages and they were exactly the same as before I cleared the counters (I had made a note of them). My TV had 4000+ hours on it.

I think what is happening is that the TV adjusts itself for various parameters based on average usage over time and somehow after many hours this goes out of sync. I am thinking it may be because we have always used calibrated settings and the panel hasn't been pushed that hard. Maybe Pioneer thinks everyone is using Standard or Dynamic?

All I can say is I am extremely pleased with the result and can't wait to start watching it again. I hadn't noticed how the black luminance had changed over time. It has not only got rid of the red tint, but the whole screen was kind of grey before and this fix got rid of all that. Now I have black again like new.

Brilliant!

Big thanks mascior, you have fixed my TV!

I will post the full procedure soon so hopefully others can try to fix theirs too

Please do! I would love to have my screen live up to the Kuro hype! BTW...does doing this trash the ISF caibration modes though?
post #156 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

Great news that the patch didn't mess anything up. I guess once I have my panel reset then that will get rid of the whole panel aging process using the slides and I won't be able to use D-Nice's settings anymore. Oh well I would rather have my pure blacks back . As far as you saying your panel MLL measured lower, I wonder if maybe the settings are a little too dark and some of the blacks are getting crushed. I know you mentioned the MLL is affected when you change the voltage levels. I was thinking that your MLL reading 0 sounded right because I have heard the 500M measures 0.0005 but you said you have a 600M so I guess it is a little higher but I am not sure what it is.

I'm glad others are trying the process out so we can see if this process works in multiple instances and if you guys find out exactly what values need to be changed then we can tell the service techs that come out if they are unfamiliar with it. Thanks!

I could be wrong, and if I am someone please correct me, but I don't think you need to run slides if you're doing this on an older set. The point of slides is because the phosphors physically age much quicker when they're first used. AFAIK, resetting the drive board has no impact on the actual age of the phosphors themselves so unless you have some IR you're trying to get rid of or you're getting sparkles due to being undervolted from what the phosphors presently need (ie you need to push through more content to get the set to "catch up"), you shouldn't need to do anything like that this time around. My guess is that if D-Nice's settings were looking good for you still, you should be able to just reapply them and they should be fine.
post #157 of 2557
Okay here is exactly what I did to fix the red tint issue on my PDP-LX5090. Please note that the service menu can be dangerous and you do this at your own risk.

Step 1 concerns connecting your TV to Hyperterminal. If you are already okay with issuing RS232 commands, proceed to step 2.

Step 1

You will need:

A computer with serial port (you can buy USB to serial adaptors if you don't have one).
A serial cable (9 pin to 9 pin, female to female, straight not null modem).
Hyperterminal (included with XP).

1. Connect the computer to the TV with the serial cable.
2. Start Hyperterminal (Start > All Programs > Accessories > Communications >HyperTerminal).
3. It will ask you to create a new connection. Name it whatever you want (TV for example) and choose an icon (can be any) and click OK.
4. On the next screen (Connect To), ignore the phone number field and change the Connect using' drop down box to your serial port (usually COM1) and click OK.
5. Next you will see COM1 Properties'. The default bits per second or Baud rate is 9600 for Pioneer displays.
6. Set BPS: 9600, Data Bits: 8, Parity: None, Stop Bits: 1, Flow Control: None and click OK.
7. Next go to File > Properties and open the Settings tab. Click on ASCII Setup..' button. Make sure Send line ends with line feeds' is NOT checked and make sure Echo typed characters locally' IS checked. Click OK and Click OK on the properties screen.
8. You should now be set to communicate with the TV. To test all is okay, put the TV in standby (red light on front).
9. Now type PON in the Hyperterminal and press Enter. The TV should turn on (blue light). Now type POF and press return and it should go back to stand by. Please note typing in Hyperterminal is odd and everything will appear on one line. This is normal. Don't try to move the cursor with the mouse or anything like I did. Just type commands (even if they overwrite what you have just typed) and press Enter. That's it.
10. Hopefully the TV responded to PON and POF. If so then you are ready to do the fix.

Step 2.

1. Make sure your TV is in stand by (red light on front).
2. Type PON and press Enter (TV should turn on).
3. Type FAY and press Enter (Enter Factory Mode).
4. Type CPM and press Enter (Clear pulse meter).
5. Type CHM and press Enter (Clear Hour meter).
6. Type POF and press Enter (turn TV off).
7. Unplug TV for 15 seconds or so.

Note changes are not visible until the TV has been turned off and on again.

That was all I did. The red tints have gone and black luminance is back to normal. If you see sparkles on the screen you may need to adjust VOL SUS and the VOL RST P as mentioned in this forum although mine did not need adjusting.

Good luck to anyone trying this technique and please be careful. Messing around in the service menu will probably invalidate your warranty and could break your TV.

Good luck
post #158 of 2557
will this work on windows 7?
post #159 of 2557
This is fantastic news!

Can ControlCal be used to do this procedure?
post #160 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastshasdow View Post

will this work on windows 7?

Haven't tried with Windows 7 and I know it doesn't come with Hyperterminal. You can download it for free though.
post #161 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpapp View Post

This is fantastic news!

Can ControlCal be used to do this procedure?

I'm not sure, I have only used the procedure above.
post #162 of 2557
Stroud,
Ok thanks! Do you think I can use that method on my pro 101fd? The service menus should all be the same correct?
post #163 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastshasdow View Post

Stroud,
Ok thanks! Do you think I can use that method on my pro 101fd? The service menus should all be the same correct?

I'm sure the service menu structure is the same for all 9G Kuros.
post #164 of 2557
Mascior and Stroud,

Procedures noted and will be keeping this with the Kuro User's Manual as I feel that the panel requires this reset each time ISF calibration is due.

Mine doesn't have red tint yet and it is comforting to know there is a simple fix to resolve this issue.

Thanks heaps!
post #165 of 2557
Anyone know if doing this procedure will wipe out stored ISF settings?

>would love to hear D-Nice or turbe weigh in on this.
post #166 of 2557
Wow - does anyone know if this applies to an 8g (specifically my pro 1150hd)?
post #167 of 2557
mascior or stroud-
where did you get your values from for your VOL SUS AND VOL RST P? i tried this fix and though my blacks are now black, i now have pink sparklies(UGH!!). i tried raising the vol rst p values, but im not sure where mine are at in the first place so im not sure if im in the right ballpark.
post #168 of 2557
I noted my original values which were as below. I didn't change them at all and they persisted after the pulse and hour reset.

VOL SUS 128
VOL OFFSET 113
VOL RST P 023
VOL XPOFS1 085
VOL XPOFS2 063
VOL YKNOFS1 D 138
VOL YKNOFS4 D 149
VOL YKNOFSA D 128
post #169 of 2557
awesome, but what command did you use to show those values?

also....what panel do you have?

thanks again
post #170 of 2557
Once in Factory Mode I use the remote to navigate around so I can make a note of existing settings. It helps to know the menu structure and how to move around the various levels also. Try to get hold of the service manual for your TV as it has all the info. I got mine for free at http://elektrotanya.com/?q=keres. This will show you the remote keys and also the menu structure. You can use the supplied remote as it is almost the same as the Pioneer Service Remote.

I have a PDP-LX5090 (UK Model).
post #171 of 2557
ok thanks. mine is a krp-500m. i think my issue is the VOL RST P, but im not sure what my value is near. yours is at 023, but mascior is at 108. thats a big difference. i followed your procedures, but getting pink sparkles now. i know those values should not have changed, but im not sure why i have these sparkles now. thanks again for your help
post #172 of 2557
I hate to say this, but I have a bad feeling that eventually someone will try this who is also a person that does not fully understand the risks, and they will not follow proper procedures and get careless in making changes where they should not and end up bricking their set.
post #173 of 2557
Stroud or Mascior,

I've looked into the Factory mode to see if I can log into the service menu and to take note on the VOL SUS and VOL RST P settings on my Kuro.

I have an LX609A (Australian model release).

I've pressed the DOWN arrows on the Remote Control but could not see these settings on the pages I looked at.

Is there a sub menu on each page? Which page should we look into to access and note the 2 settings mentioned above?

I have close to 4000 hrs on my Kuro and was just curious!

Thanks,
post #174 of 2557
Success! I used the method Stroud described, and my blacks are back!

It did deactivate the ISF modes, but when I went to re-activate them, all the settings were intact.

(5020FD with Elite I/O board)
post #175 of 2557
Can I use Stroud's method on a 5020fd without the Elite I/O board, or will Pioneer need to do a software update?
post #176 of 2557
i've tried it and it seems to work! It seems the black level is so much blacker now!

The reset has not affected the ISF settings. Will soon check the calibration as soon as I have the time. I don't think it has shifted the calibration much... I can't tell! The picture still looks simply stunning!

BTW, how often should ISF calibration be checked or re-calibrated? I'm thinking of performing this reset each time I do the calibration on this TV. Good idea or not?

I love my Kuro panel! I'm going to give her a hug!
post #177 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1forsnow View Post

ok thanks. mine is a krp-500m. i think my issue is the VOL RST P, but im not sure what my value is near. yours is at 023, but mascior is at 108. thats a big difference. i followed your procedures, but getting pink sparkles now. i know those values should not have changed, but im not sure why i have these sparkles now. thanks again for your help

Sorry about this guys...I typed my VOL RST P wrong. It is 018 not 108.
post #178 of 2557
Please remember that this method is straight out of the service manual and is the same method used by service engineers if they are replacing the panel.

I strongly recommend any person thinking of doing this to get the service manual.

Once the two counters are cleared, the service manual will tell you tentative voltage values to set (if you need to) and also a series of mask tests to perform if you have the sparkles and what to do to get rid of them.

Make sure you get the service manual for your specific TV as they may be different.

I would not recommend changing voltage value if you don't know what they already are (make a note of them), and also only change them with the remote in the service menu as you can only change them incrementally. I would recommend changing them in increments of 1 and checking again.

I attach the remote keys guide and also the service menu structure for my 5090. Hopefully it will help anyone who has the sparkles

 

factory_layout.pdf 21.904296875k . file

 

remote_keys.pdf 150.658203125k . file
post #179 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrodoob View Post

i've tried it and it seems to work! It seems the black level is so much blacker now!

The reset has not affected the ISF settings. Will soon check the calibration as soon as I have the time. I don't think it has shifted the calibration much... I can't tell! The picture still looks simply stunning!

BTW, how often should ISF calibration be checked or re-calibrated? I'm thinking of performing this reset each time I do the calibration on this TV. Good idea or not?

I love my Kuro panel! I'm going to give her a hug!

Awesome...glad to see this worked for you. I would recommend a re-cal about every 3000 hours.
post #180 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrodoob View Post

i've tried it and it seems to work! It seems the black level is so much blacker now!

The reset has not affected the ISF settings. Will soon check the calibration as soon as I have the time. I don't think it has shifted the calibration much... I can't tell! The picture still looks simply stunning!

BTW, how often should ISF calibration be checked or re-calibrated? I'm thinking of performing this reset each time I do the calibration on this TV. Good idea or not?

I love my Kuro panel! I'm going to give her a hug!

So what we have here is a milder case of the Panasonic rising blacks issue...but with a red tint thrown in. I have control-cal. Wonder if I can use that to reset the panel? Or can one use the factory remote to do all this? I sure don't want to tackle fixing a subtle problem and end up with a big mess unless I know exactly what I am doing! lol
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