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Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 2557
Not looking good for me resetting mine with some of these recent posts, such as one person saying it ruined shadow detail, one person saying settings are just a loose guide so nobody will know for sure how I can fix it if something looks wrong, and now the latest one saying he would rather live with something very noticeably bad black-level wise (or maybe that even after the reset the black level was bad). I hope I'm not wasting time and money with this.
post #1502 of 2557
On the avs disc, by the way, do you usually go by the test with ONLY brightness when setting it? Because I remember the one that had both brightness and contrast on the same screen showed a totally different brightness setting being needed.
post #1503 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Not looking good for me resetting mine with some of these recent posts, such as one person saying it ruined shadow detail [...]
somelogin, I was the person who said that when I did the reset about 3 nights ago. I was actually wrong when I said that. I was too quick to post that comment. Shadow detail was NOT ruined. I found out that all that needed to be done was that brightness had to be raised a tiny bit, and when I did that, all detail near black was visible. I can now see all 28 squares of one of the black level test patterns I use.

Again, I was mistaken when I said it was ruined.

I've had my 500M since April 2009. D-Nice did a wonderful job patching and calibrating it in September 2009. Several years later, I noticed the elevated grey "blacks" and red tint. It was annoying, and I was depressed about it. Several nights ago, I finally did the reset. The red tint is completely gone, and the black level of my 500M is something that I never thought could be possible with a plasma. In fact, it's almost 9:00 PM here in the Boston area, and I'm sitting in my room typing this on my laptop, with my 500M right in back of me displaying a pure black test pattern. When I turn the light off, and close the laptop lid, so that my room is pitch dark, the black level of my 500M is so dark that it looks like it's one hair away from looking like the screen is OFF. The black level really is that deep. I'm not kidding. It feels like I have a new video display.

This Forum and its members here are awesome. Without them, I never would have known about this reset.
Edited by Shawn1 - 1/1/14 at 6:06pm
post #1504 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

On the avs disc, by the way, do you usually go by the test with ONLY brightness when setting it? Because I remember the one that had both brightness and contrast on the same screen showed a totally different brightness setting being needed.

On the Spears and Muncil disc there is a pluge low which I use for brightness. The contrast pattern I use to set contrast which also has an bar on top for brightness too. However, with the bright contrast bar below and the darker brightness bar above, it's hard for your eyes to adjust, and you end up raising the brightness too high to see the numbered bars. Always use a separate pattern for brightness and a separate pattern for contrast.
post #1505 of 2557
Wxman...

Raising YKNOFS1D should not have "ruined" gamma - that means you were doing too much for one voltage. Didn't you think to try moving FS1D with a few notches of YKNOFSAD. Like five of each up the way. Stop - check - raise again if need be.

Compensation must be taken into account with previous ageing - that can't be gotten around.

Again, when i reset, i moved YKNOFSAD up to 152
post #1506 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

somelogin, I was the person who said that when I did the reset about 3 nights ago. I was actually wrong when I said that. I was too quick to post that comment. Shadow detail was NOT ruined. I found out that all that needed to be done was that brightness had to be raised a tiny bit, and when I did that, all detail near black was visible. I can now see all 28 squares of one of the black level test patterns I use.

Again, I was mistaken when I said it was ruined.

I've had my 500M since April 2009. D-Nice did a wonderful job patching and calibrating it in September 2009. Several years later, I noticed the elevated grey "blacks" and red tint. It was annoying, and I was depressed about it. Several nights ago, I finally did the reset. The red tint is completely gone, and the black level of my 500M is something that I never thought could be possible with a plasma. In fact, it's almost 9:00 PM here in the Boston area, and I'm sitting in my room typing this on my laptop, with my 500M right in back of me displaying a pure black test pattern. When I turn the light off, and close the laptop lid, so that my room is pitch dark, the black level of my 500M is so dark that it looks like it's one hair away from looking like the screen is OFF. The black level really is that deep. I'm not kidding. It feels like I have a new video display.

This Forum and its members here are awesome. Without them, I never would have known about this reset.

Incredible aren't they. I remember the buzz seeing stock black levels on the 500A the first time it was reset after all that time with elevated MLL and a terrible dose of the red tint.

Hoping and praying this new 500M doesn't go the same way - it only a matter of approximately 900hrs old but there is plenty time for it to happen i guess eek.gif

Would rather not have to do all this again on the M if i can possibly help it but it's just a luck thing now whilst keeping fingers crossed.

Just a pity all these Kuro's have been afflicted with this big time issue
post #1507 of 2557
Well, thanks everyone. I still figure it's worth me trying and if it does work I will probably still be posting to thank people 20 years from now. lol I've gone through so much just to get a good tv. I only finally resorted to buying used ones when all of the newer models dissatisfied me by either hurting my head extra much (possibly due to more flicker of pannys) or had bad viewing angles (full array led sets) and in fact even CCFL LCD sets were bothering my head so I thought why in the world keep a CCFL set and it STILL be hurting my head? So I finally decided to get the best of the best and if it would hurt my head too much then I would only watch it occasionally and use my old CCFL LCD the rest of the time. Then I got stuck with elites with a horrible black level, but it was too hard to confirm because I have a vision issue going on and I kept thinking maybe I was seeing worse blacks due to that issue, but apparently not... as others have the black level issue.
post #1508 of 2557
Looks like today's the day. I had two different packages UPS and the USPS were working together on sending me, and I see I tracking that both packages had UPS change it to them delivering rather than bothering with the USPS, and both say scheduled for today. One is already out for delivery and the one with my cables isn't, though, so not sure what's up with that... they wouldn't put them on two trucks, I assume, so I hope they didn't screw up and me have to wait until tomorrow still.
post #1509 of 2557
Well, I finally got the hang of changing and copying ISF settings and changed the side masks and looked at hours. Waiting before doing any of this main stuff. I wish I couldn't se the hours. lol But when you buy a used tv you really can't realistically assume you'll get low hours and I can't just keep[ buying tv after tv until I get one without many.
post #1510 of 2557
Back from the dead wink.gif

Answer to the 10 PMs i got in the last days.

The guide was deleted because i was pissed off that i had added one more problem after the reset that wasnt there before.
i didnt think the guide was complete and it still isnt.
i dont know if its only my 5090 or if everyone who do the reset will get this problem.
thats why you need to check this before and after the reset.

New problem: Pixelsparkles near black from 5% IRE
you can see an example of it here:
http://www.jopezu.com/plasma.htm
there is no way in hell to get rid of them with the voltage settings in the servicemenu
i have tried everyone of them.

why these sparkles occurs is because the low IREs of the picture near black has to high voltage.
i could minimize the sparkles if i lowered VOLSUS but then a 100% white field got magenta misfires instead.

if you lower VOLSUS you lower the voltage at the low IREs but also at the Higher IREs.
VOLSUS is just an overall voltage adjustment and adjusts the whole panel.

i have solved it by now but not with the voltage settings but with hardware adjustment to a volt regulator.

the guide will be up soon and also with a second guide that solves a mystery than it seems that noone ever
thinked of.
YES you can reduce plasma BUZZING! smile.gif
but not by moving your seat position in the room so you dont hear it wink.gif
an adjustment to one of the volt regulators is all that is needed.

whats even better is that when you reduze the buzzing and your components gets happy you will also reduce the PWM noise in the picture!
the new power surge made "some" improvement to the buzz and the noise in the picture but not as big difference as this voltage regulator adjustment made.

its crazy what discoveries you can do when you start to adjust things.
i will explain in the second guide how ro reduce the buzzing that occurs mostly with bright scenes and even worse if you have raised ABL.
Edited by pg_ice - 1/3/14 at 12:51am
post #1511 of 2557
Perhaps it should be pointed out in your guide that not every Kuro is the same be it size (or) model.

Most are driven differently for a start.

Also i wouldn't be as an amatuer (no offence) be encouraging people to take the back plate of their Kuro's and (playing) with voltage pots.

Most people who knew absolutely anything at all about plasma's knew these voltage pots are there already. But these are not necessary on Kuro's... Because that is (why) Pioneer put all the voltage controls in the service menu's.

Taking the back of the tv's isn't necessary - you don't know better than the engineers who designed these thing's (again no offence) it's potentially dangerous physically and irresponsible and it could break permanently someone's tv.

You are trying to help i know but you need to know where to draw the line.

I pointed out how to fix the white noise weeks ago - i can't believe it has taken you so long to notice it - you swore blind it wasn't there.

And as mascoir with a 600M in the past has mentioned these artifacts will likely go anyway with hours as thing's settle down.

With time.

These tv's aren't behaving like new because they are all (mostly) thousands of hours old.

:edit:

It should be noted also that in the past people have at one time or other electrocuted themselves by taking the back of their tv's. And others hve basically 'popped' their tv's permanently by trying to "tweak" voltage pots by not knowing what they are doing.

It's a different thing altogether taking the back of a tv as an amatuer replacing a broken component that has been proven to be broken by a multimeter for example when no electricicty is going through.

Rather than playing with live voltage/pots... Also there are many high charge live voltage points on the back of a plasma that just one touch can blow the lot and themselves.
Edited by Stu03 - 1/3/14 at 3:31am
post #1512 of 2557
you should see the picture now!!
you can take your sour KRP and put it in the trashcan after you have seen this one tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Most people who knew absolutely anything at all about plasma's knew these voltage pots are there already.

who are they?
i like to meet them
to bad that they NEVER write on these forums wink.gif

but ok i make a question here so we can see if "they" are crawling out of their caves.
for you who knows about these pots already
how many are there to adjust?
and why where they set incorrectly from the factory?

i dont see the spakles from the wieving position only when i get close.
usually i dont sit 0.5 m infront of the tv thats why i didnt see them until now.

i got FOUR!
i say it again
FOUR FIXES with two tiny adjustments to two pots!

LESS PWM NOISE
LESS BUZZING! damn this tv is quiet now with a 100% white field at 90cd/m2 (ABL at 230)
NO MAGENTA MISFIRES WITH A 100% WHITE FIELD! yes i had them before due to the 19k hours usage. (raising VOLSUS in the service menu wasnt enough)
NO WHITE SPARKELS NEAR BLACK.

damn it was worth it! smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Perhaps it should be pointed out in your guide that not every Kuro is the same be it size (or) model.

do you really think people are so DUMB so they think every kuro is exactly the same?
you are making fools out of people smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

it's potentially dangerous

i have not written the guide yet so cool down.
yes its dangerous and it can kill you if you are not catious.

i think most people knows that adjusting pots while the tv is on near 400V power supply and high voltage transistors IS dangerous.
its not something you do the day after you got drunk.
and its not for everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

and it could break permanently someone's tv
i had 8 P-PWR powerdowns for under voltage protection while i adjusted.
but at that point the 100% white field was more looking like this LG tv here.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1372479/lg-plasma-panel-tweaks-for-better-blacks/1290#post_22863794
the tv still works
amazing protection system on these Kuros wink.gif

also you are fast telling people what the should and shouldn't do.
why ?
do you really think that i care what you say when i look at my Kuro now haha ?
tonight there will be some beer and enjoying the most epic picture i have ever seen on any tv.
Edited by pg_ice - 1/3/14 at 7:07am
post #1513 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

you should see the picture now!!
you can take your sour KRP and put it in the trashcan after you have seen this one tongue.gif
who are they?
i like to meet them
to bad that they NEVER write on these forums wink.gif

but ok i make a question here so we can see if "they" are crawling out of their caves.
for you who knows about these pots already
how many are there to adjust?
and why where they set incorrectly from the factory?

i dont see the spakles from the wieving position only when i get close.
usually i dont sit 0.5 m infront of the tv thats why i didnt see them until now.

i got FOUR!
i say it again
FOUR FIXES with two tiny adjustments to two pots!

LESS PWM NOISE
LESS BUZZING! damn this tv is quiet now with a 100% white field at 90cd/m2 (ABL at 230)
NO MAGENTA MISFIRES WITH A 100% WHITE FIELD! yes i had them before due to the 19k hours usage. (raising VOLSUS in the service menu wasnt enough)
NO WHITE SPARKELS NEAR BLACK.

damn it was worth it! smile.gif
do you really think people are so DUMB so they think every kuro is exactly the same?
you are making fools out of people smile.gif
i have not written the guide yet so cool down.
yes its dangerous and it can kill you if you are not catious.

i think most people knows that adjusting pots while the tv is on near 400V power supply and high voltage transistors IS dangerous.
its not something you do the day after you got drunk.
and its not for everyone.
i had 8 P-PWR powerdowns for under voltage protection while i adjusted.
but at that point the 100% white field was more looking like this LG tv here.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1372479/lg-plasma-panel-tweaks-for-better-blacks/1290#post_22863794
the tv still works
amazing protection system on these Kuros wink.gif

also you are fast telling people what the should and shouldn't do.
why ?
do you really think that i care what you say when i look at my Kuro now haha ?
tonight there will be some beer and enjoying the most epic picture i have ever seen on any tv.
more pics then
post #1514 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

you should see the picture now!!
you can take your sour KRP and put it in the trashcan after you have seen this one tongue.gif
who are they?
i like to meet them
to bad that they NEVER write on these forums wink.gif

but ok i make a question here so we can see if "they" are crawling out of their caves.
for you who knows about these pots already
how many are there to adjust?
and why where they set incorrectly from the factory?

i dont see the spakles from the wieving position only when i get close.
usually i dont sit 0.5 m infront of the tv thats why i didnt see them until now.

i got FOUR!
i say it again
FOUR FIXES with two tiny adjustments to two pots!

LESS PWM NOISE
LESS BUZZING! damn this tv is quiet now with a 100% white field at 90cd/m2 (ABL at 230)
NO MAGENTA MISFIRES WITH A 100% WHITE FIELD! yes i had them before due to the 19k hours usage. (raising VOLSUS in the service menu wasnt enough)
NO WHITE SPARKELS NEAR BLACK.

damn it was worth it! smile.gif
do you really think people are so DUMB so they think every kuro is exactly the same?
you are making fools out of people smile.gif
i have not written the guide yet so cool down.
yes its dangerous and it can kill you if you are not catious.

i think most people knows that adjusting pots while the tv is on near 400V power supply and high voltage transistors IS dangerous.
its not something you do the day after you got drunk.
and its not for everyone.
i had 8 P-PWR powerdowns for under voltage protection while i adjusted.
but at that point the 100% white field was more looking like this LG tv here.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1372479/lg-plasma-panel-tweaks-for-better-blacks/1290#post_22863794
the tv still works
amazing protection system on these Kuros wink.gif

also you are fast telling people what the should and shouldn't do.
why ?
do you really think that i care what you say when i look at my Kuro now haha ?
tonight there will be some beer and enjoying the most epic picture i have ever seen on any tv.

Really.. I think you are drunk tbh.

I am not telling anyone to do anything - anyone with half a brain knows that taking the back off a tv and adjusting pots with no original reference to go by is crazy.

So tell me, where did the original engineers and designers go wrong with adjustments on the voltage pots ?. Or exactly what these should be at the back. Presumably you know that you have been adjusting VSUS etc etc.

Dumb you say - out of four weeks total ypu have been doing this for at least two of these ypu thought every Kuro was the same. Also you didn't even know that ABL had to be adjusted per HZ. The other Classic you came away with that according to you there is no such thing as a professional calibrator. I'm just thankful you will never be getting anywhere near my Kuro.

Tell me why all the voltages are included in the service menu's? - just because you aren't capable of fixing from there doesn't mean you should be encouraging others to butcher their Kuro's and risking life and limb.

It's you sir who is trying to tell people what to do. I'm just taking the logical approach.

You honestly believe you know better than the original designers/engineer after one month. It's absurd. No one has ever been so ridiculousy arrogant.

Have another drink and think again.
post #1515 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyboy View Post

more pics then

pics of what?
post #1516 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post


So tell me, where did the original engineers and designers go wrong with adjustments on the voltage pots ?.

they got to many drinks before adjusting them wink.gif

but ok
people seems to have some huge problems here and can't take any new changes that they dont believe in or have tried themselves.
so the guide will NOT be posted.
all this bitching is so lame.

if someone still wants to know how to adjust the pots
send a PM
Edited by pg_ice - 1/3/14 at 7:57am
post #1517 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

pics of what?
your kuro, since the new changes:)
post #1518 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigyboy View Post

your kuro, since the new changes:)

look at the pictures thread
still problem with the camera.
post #1519 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

I am not telling anyone to do anything - anyone with half a brain knows that taking the back off a tv and adjusting pots with no original reference to go by is crazy.

so why do you wrote about the risks before?
are you drunk ? wink.gif
post #1520 of 2557
If it turned out that the hardware change did really fix all of those things, maybe people could find a technician who would do them for a charge. Especially if anyone knows one personally. lol
post #1521 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

they got to many drinks before adjusting them wink.gif

but ok
people seems to have some huge problems here and can't take any new changes that they dont believe in or have tried themselves.
so the guide will NOT be posted.
all this bitching is so lame.

if someone still wants to know how to adjust the pots
send a PM

People will do what they want with their own tv's.

But from speaking with one or two people in the UK who adjusted LG tv's for black tweaks etc caused more issues than they began with.

These were people who knew what original pot voltages should be on the back of the tv's.

It caused screen burn or very bad image retention, stuck/dead pixels a few weeks/months down the line.

Only techs/engineers know how to adjust to reference at the back of the panels as they have the numbers we aren't privy to probably for good reason as well as all the health and safety stuff.

On other tvs inside the back there are voltage guide numbers - i don't think Pioneers have that
post #1522 of 2557
I'm happy you're back. pg_ice.

I performed the reset on my 500M last weekend. I now have deep, inky, bezel-blending blacks, and the red tint is gone. When viewing the one blu-ray movie I own, I have been noticing an artifact that I haven't seen prior to the reset.

On certain scenes, on certain areas of the picture (darker areas), I notice flashing dots, that appear and disappear in an instant. The color of these dots looks, to me, like the color of a lightning bolt, or the flash of a camera, if that makes any sense. I'm guessing these are the so-called "sparkles."

As much as I would like to get rid of this unwanted artifact, there is no way I am going to attempt to remove the back panel of my 500M. In fact, if someone were to offer me $1,000 in cash to remove the back panel of my Kuro, I still wouldn't do it.

I'm hoping the sparkles will disappear over time. If worse comes to worse, I guess I can learn to ignore it.
post #1523 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

I'm happy you're back. pg_ice.

I performed the reset on my 500M last weekend. I now have deep, inky, bezel-blending blacks, and the red tint is gone. When viewing the one blu-ray movie I own, I have been noticing an artifact that I haven't seen prior to the reset.

On certain scenes, on certain areas of the picture (darker areas), I notice flashing dots, that appear and disappear in an instant. The color of these dots looks, to me, like the color of a lightning bolt, or the flash of a camera, if that makes any sense. I'm guessing these are the so-called "sparkles."

As much as I would like to get rid of this unwanted artifact, there is no way I am going to attempt to remove the back panel of my 500M. In fact, if someone were to offer me $1,000 in cash to remove the back panel of my Kuro, I still wouldn't do it.

I'm hoping the sparkles will disappear over time. If worse comes to worse, I guess I can learn to ignore it.

Try lowering YKNOFS1D about 20 clicks , you could also try lowering YKNOFSAD , sound like a voltage is a tad to high .
post #1524 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post

Try lowering YKNOFS1D about 20 clicks , you could also try lowering YKNOFSAD , sound like a voltage is a tad to high .
Thanks for the advice.

The factory value of YKNOFS1D was originally 138. Right after the reset, I lowered it to 112.

The factory value of YKNOFSAD was orignailly 128. Right after the reset, I raised it to 148.

Do I adjust these values from the original numbers from the factory? Or do I adjust them from the new numbers I recently set them at?

Thank you.
post #1525 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

Thanks for the advice.

The factory value of YKNOFS1D was originally 138. Right after the reset, I lowered it to 112.

The factory value of YKNOFSAD was orignailly 128. Right after the reset, I raised it to 148.

Do I adjust these values from the original numbers from the factory? Or do I adjust them from the new numbers I recently set them at?

Thank you.

I would adjust from the settings you have now , Try just the YKNOFSAD , lower it to 128 and see what that does to your sparkles .
post #1526 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post

I would adjust from the settings you have now , Try just the YKNOFSAD , lower it to 128 and see what that does to your sparkles .
Interesting. So I'll be changing YKNOFSAD back to its original factory value of 128 (from 148). I'll try it later on tonight. Thanks.
post #1527 of 2557
Shawn

What happens if you lower or raise brightness - or change the gamma presets 1 through to 5 and back again ?
post #1528 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Shawn

What happens if you lower or raise brightness - or change the gamma presets 1 through to 5 and back again ?
Stu, I just tried your advice -- lowering and raising the brightness, and changing the gamma presets -- and it has no effect on the occasionally flashing sparkles.

It's interesting to note that the sparkles only appear while the movie is playing. When the movie is on pause, the sparkles do not appear at all.
post #1529 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post

Stu, I just tried your advice -- lowering and raising the brightness, and changing the gamma presets -- and it has no effect on the occasionally flashing sparkles.

It's interesting to note that the sparkles only appear while the movie is playing. When the movie is on pause, the sparkles do not appear at all.

Yes i should have been clearer, what i should have said is did the sparkles get worse when you raised the brightness a step at a time ?...

Are you able to put up a dark screen or black signal when the white misfires are there all the time - and then access the service menu's/voltages at all Shawn ?
post #1530 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Yes i should have been clearer, what i should have said is did the sparkles get worse when you raised the brightness a step at a time ?...

Are you able to put up a dark screen or black signal when the white misfires are there all the time - and then access the service menu's/voltages at all Shawn ?
I just lowered YKNOFSAD back to 128 and I still see the sparkles. I'm going to raise it back up to 148, the point where I originally set it right after the reset.

It doesn't really seem that big of a deal. Maybe I'm being a little too OCD about this.

I don't even see the sparkles when playing video games. Neither did I notice the sparkles when I tested several computer animated films on DVD (Toy Story 2, Ratatouille, Up, Nightmare Before Christmas). I haven't seen the sparkles on any of the Netflix videos I've seen. So far, I only notice the occasionally flashing dots on the Blu-ray disc The Breakfast Club (even in high definition, this film is pretty grainy-looking).

Like I said, I'll raise YKNOFSAD back to 148, as per the instructions and advice located somewhere in this thread. I really don't want to spend any more time playing with the voltage values in the service menu. I'm just happy I got my black levels back to being black. I feel the best thing to do now is just to let my 500M settle, and then, in time, get it professionally calibrated.

Thanks for the advice.

Edit:
I'm 10 minutes into watching the Up DVD, desperately looking to see the sparkles... and I don't see any! Now I'm thinking these "sparkles" are actually part of the graininess of The Breakfast Club Blu-ray. Boy, do I feel like a fool. redface.gif
Edited by Shawn1 - 1/3/14 at 3:16pm
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