Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 16

Originally Posted by olyteddy

OK, I don't own a Kuro but I have to ask. With over 400 replies in this thread, is this a major flaw with the 'Mighty Kuro' or is it just that there are so many of them out there and they're starting to get old? Or is it something else?

Originally Posted by powertoold


I have the tint on my 500m, but I remember seeing it a longg time ago. Honestly, it's a non-issue if you watch the TV with *any* amount of light in the room. The room basically has to be pitch black for me to see any of the redness.

It's difficult to even use the word "tint" because that would imply the red color adulterates the whole display. In reality, the red only shows up on black in a completely dark room, and even then, it's subtle.

Originally Posted by D-Nice

Your display is normal... as are 95% of the displays in this thread where their owner think they have red blacks.

What you are seeing is the idle charge illuminating your filter which is purplish red. On top of that your grayscale is redder from 0-10% stimuli than the rest of your grayscale. Those two factors will make your idle luminance a deep purplish red. Depending on how red your grayscale is between 0 and 10% stimuli will dictate how much red appears in the normal purplish red idle luminance. Although the redder 0-10% can be calibrated out, to a certain extent, it cannot be 100% calibrated out.

Having typed the above, there are a few Kuros out there that literally have a red idle black (MLL). It is not widespread and only affects a small number of Kuros.

Originally Posted by AlanBuck

You just pretty much described how mine looks. The room has to be pretty dark to notice it. It is a purplish red tinted slightly glowing black. Since I bought the set (6020) used with about 2000 hours on it I have no idea how it looked when new. It now has about 3200 hours and seems about the same as when I got it. It was upgraded with the Elite board swap and calibrated by ChadB. Excepting the slight reddish blacks, and some DSE issues it looks wonderful Thanks to D-Nice for clarifying this. You are a huge asset to this forum.

Originally Posted by stroud

For those who have the bad type of red tint or have already reset the pulse counter, the service manual states that various adjustments are made according to the pulse meter. The pulse meter is used to determine accumulated usage time of the plasma display panel.
After digging through the patent database I found a patent filed by Pioneer in 2006 (attached) which deals with this concept. It was also the only source I could find that makes reference to adjustments for accumulated time usage" and it is feasible that the Kuro range would have used these concepts.

Abstract: "Pulse voltage values and/or pulse widths of a variety of drive pulses that are applied to the plasma display panel are adjusted in accordance with the accumulated usage time of the plasma display panel."

From reading the patent I have determined the following values to be adjusted automatically according to accumulated usage.

Reset Pulse

Sustain Pulse

Scan Pulse

Pulse Width

RGB Values (to maintain white balance)

The diagram below shows how the changes are applied over time. I noticed that the reset pulse curve increases quite steeply which may explain why I needed to adjust it upwards after reset. I still seem to be within tolerance values on scan pulse, sustain pulse and pulse width.

Pulse width appears to be adjusted at a set period in time (t1) rather than a gradual adjustment. No reference is made to the exact time that this would occur.
RGB values are interesting. Figure 14a shows that over time red remains constant, green falls slightly and blue deteriorates the most. Figure 14b shows how the levels are shifted to compensate. Blue remains constant, green is reduced slightly and red is reduced the most.
I think that although these adjustments happen automatically, scope for adjustment has been provided through the panel adjustment nodes in the service menu. My intention is to figure out what these adjustments do so that I can adjust my PDP should any side effects occur in the future.

Originally Posted by D-Nice

That patent has nothing to do with your display in the manner you posted.

All PDPs driving parameters are adjusted over time. This has been the case since the very first PDP.

I applaud you for continuing to research how PDPs work. However I think you need to come to terms that your PDP module is out of spec in relation to it's aging and the driving software and there is nothing you can do about it unless you either get a brand new PDP module or decrypt the firmware and regards resequence the pulse counter to be in line with your current panel age.

Originally Posted by mascior

Oh and D-Nice you are correct about the module being out of wack with the panel aging. My guy said the only side effect that he could see us having is to keep readjusting the rest voltage as the panel ages to get rid of unwanted side effects or at worst change out the Y board which is around $600 plus installation.

Originally Posted by Ronmck

you do not think we will be able to properly and safely eliminate this distraction?

Thanks,
Ron

Originally Posted by mascior

After speaking with my guy at Pioneer service today...here is what he told me based of the e-mail I sent him last week. By resetting your panel with out changing the X and or Y board can cause effects to the following voltages and settings: VOL SUS, VOL OFFSET, VOL RST P, and Panel white balance 60 & 72 hz. The rest of the voltages from VOL XPOFS1 to SUS FREQ are fine because those voltages are adjusted per X/Y board and since they are not being changed those values are fine. However now the VOL SUS needs to be re-adjusted to 215v(reguardless of the 128 value) by meter inside the panel, next the VOL OFFSET & VOL RST P both need to be adjusted up using the MKCS01 patern at 60hz until all sparkles are gone, and last you will need a good spectroradiometer or colorimeter to recalibrate your panels main white balance at 60hz/72hz because the values are no longer correct for your panel.

Originally Posted by mascior

After speaking with my guy at Pioneer service today...here is what he told me based of the e-mail I sent him last week. By resetting your panel with out changing the X and or Y board can cause effects to the following voltages and settings: VOL SUS, VOL OFFSET, VOL RST P, and Panel white balance 60 & 72 hz. The rest of the voltages from VOL XPOFS1 to SUS FREQ are fine because those voltages are adjusted per X/Y board and since they are not being changed those values are fine. However now the VOL SUS needs to be re-adjusted to 215v(reguardless of the 128 value) by meter inside the panel, next the VOL OFFSET & VOL RST P both need to be adjusted up using the MKCS01 patern at 60hz until all sparkles are gone, and last you will need a good spectroradiometer or colorimeter to recalibrate your panels main white balance at 60hz/72hz because the values are no longer correct for your panel.

Originally Posted by GabeG


If you're just changing vol rst p, would that change white balance?

Originally Posted by Mac13

So I was able to get a hold of someone in customer support that was aware of the patch Mascior had talked about and they set me up so that I can call my local authorized Pioneer repair company to come out and assist with this. Like Mascior, I was going to have them help me out in the service menu by resetting the logs or at least adjusting some of the voltages since I was a little nervous to get in there and mess with it myself. I am not too sure I want to proceed with this now that it sounds like resetting the pulse log could screw the panel up in the long run. I guess I could still have them just adjust the voltages to see if it helps the red tint at all. I have to call the service company within 30 days to set up my appointment. What do you guys think I should do?

Originally Posted by Mac13

Did you mess with any of the other voltages such as SUS? Did dialing the vol rst p down get rid of the tint completely or just lessen it a little?

Originally Posted by renet

In France Two guys have been able to get their black back with the pulse reset.

Cyrano :
vol sus 128
vol offset 113
vol rst p 022

Bernov :
VOL SUS 128
OFFSET 113
RST P 024

but a third has a flash problem with his screen
his VOL RST P is of 002
in your opinion is there a link between the weakness of his VOL RST P and
his failure ?