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Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 23

post #661 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

No.

Presumably that is assuming that the red tint that ragingd is seeing is a fault. Perhaps it is the norm for Kuro's.

D-Nice posted this to one of my earlier questions:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=455


The link above advises that some faint purple/red tint is normal in 0-10% stimuli, and I think that these are the situations that most of us are commenting that we can see the issue. (Lights off in the room and watching dark scenes). Unless I've totally misunderstood what D-Nice was telling me.

So perhaps this comes back to the issue of some of us do not know what is the norm and what is a fault with our Kuro's? I know I'm not sure and I do not know another Kuro owner to take a look at their set.

Interestingly, I rang Pioneer UK again and they have agreed to send a Authorised Service Centre Engineer around to take a look. The Engineer is visiting tomorrow. I'll post what they tell me.
post #662 of 2557
Thanks KuroMike for posting. The tint on my set is not faint, I wish it was but it seems to be getting worse. The middle of the screen is fine but everything around it is purplish/red. The tint can be seen with no input before the set goes completely black and it can be seen when there is dark scene in any movie. I didn't notice it sooner because I have not watched much on my set in a few months.
post #663 of 2557
My friends Kuro has this issue. I looked at it a few days ago. I could notice it in a completely dark room but honestly it wasn't that obvious. I agree scenes with lighter colors makes it hard to see the red tint. During a completely dark scene though, you can make it out at the top right and bottom by his bezel. It's like a slightly red glow.

He is contemplating selling it now because it bugs him so much. He called Pioneer about it but they stated it was normal and that it was not a defect.

He got a really good offer on it from a friend he works with. I won't discuss price but I was pretty shocked at what he was offered. There is nothing better out right now though (at least in my opinion) unless he wants to shell out for an Elite LCD.

I have read through some of the thread but I guess the general consensus is that Pioneer is in general probably not going to fix it. He is not going to go into the service menu and honestly I doubt I would either. What is everyone doing about this that has the problem? Are you just going to deal with it? I reminded him that all technology has it's issues and that LCD TV's were not exception.
post #664 of 2557
Well I'm glad there are no reports (here) of the 4280 having this issue, since I have one. I'm very sensitive to reds and would have spotted it day one. In fact, the first week I had my set I turned the red push off in the SM. Anyway, I just turned off the lights and saw no red on the black screen without the source on, and no red watching a little of Dark City.

Just thought I'd chine in, in case any other 4280 owners show up.
post #665 of 2557
I don't see any issues with my 4280 either. Still has excellent pq, I still get a kick out of people who think it's 1080p
post #666 of 2557
Well I decided to call Pioneer myself this afternoon to inquire about the red tint for my friend (they blew him off a few days ago claiming it was normal). I directed them to this thread. The person stated he had heard about the issue and this thread which I was surprised about. He stated though that this was just a normal process of the aging of the plasma. I let him know that my friend didn't have this when he bought his set new. He stated again that this was just the normal aging process.

So it's pretty obvious that Pioneer is going to do nothing regarding this issue. He stated my friend could have a tech come out but that there was no fix for it and it was normal. He mentioned that going into the Service Menu and changing settings was a bad idea (he specifically brought up some of the changes that some of the posters have tried) and that it would lead to further issues down the road even though it improved the picture right now. He wouldn't elaborate but it was obvious it was something he was aware of.

So it seems like they won't acknowledge the issue nor fix it. I guess because they are not in the tv business anymore, they don't feel a need to support them. Then again most of the talented engineers for the Kuro line are probably long gone by now.

So is everyone going to just deal with it and keep their set? My friend is still in warranty and I think he is leaning towards selling it after he heard my conversation. I can't blame him for being angry but it's not very obvious in all of the content he watches so I told him to really think about it. After all you can't just go buy another Kuro.
post #667 of 2557
YOTR,

I don't think Pioneer really cares much about their tv's and monitors anymore, since they don't make them. Sounds like they have come up with the standard corporate response that it is normal. For us that have the problem and don't have a warranty anymore, our only choices are to live with it, attempt the mods or pay for expensive repairs, which by Pioneer's own admission, is normal. Like the rep said, going into SM and making the changes will ultimately be detrimental, but will that be 500, 5000 or 20,000 hours down the road, nobody knows. I highly doubt Pioneer is having any engineers looking into this, so don't expect any solution.
post #668 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

YOTR,

I don't think Pioneer really cares much about their tv's and monitors anymore, since they don't make them. Sounds like they have come up with the standard corporate response that it is normal. For us that have the problem and don't have a warranty anymore, our only choices are to live with it, attempt the mods or pay for expensive repairs, which by Pioneer's own admission, is normal. Like the rep said, going into SM and making the changes will ultimately be detrimental, but will that be 500, 5000 or 20,000 hours down the road, nobody knows. I highly doubt Pioneer is having any engineers looking into this, so don't expect any solution.

I agree but it's still frustrating. I could probably live with it if I had to but it would still bug me. He still is under warranty but Pioneer won't do anything to fix it. So what can you do? Live with it or move on to something else.
post #669 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

YOTR,

I don't think Pioneer really cares much about their tv's and monitors anymore, since they don't make them. Sounds like they have come up with the standard corporate response that it is normal. For us that have the problem and don't have a warranty anymore, our only choices are to live with it, attempt the mods or pay for expensive repairs, which by Pioneer's own admission, is normal. Like the rep said, going into SM and making the changes will ultimately be detrimental, but will that be 500, 5000 or 20,000 hours down the road, nobody knows. I highly doubt Pioneer is having any engineers looking into this, so don't expect any solution.

They don't support the products they still make either. I have a 4 month old 1121 receiver that keeps losing audio on HDMI ports...a full reset fixes it, but then it has to have the auto speaker calibration run again, and passwords for XM radio etc re-entered. They basically told me tough..it must be my cable box causing the ports to go bonkers. (in the very unlikely case this is true I got a new cable box today, used a different HDMI cable, and plugged the receiver into a different surge protector..any bets on this fixing the issue?) Also they said if a reset fixes it that is all they will do for me...and there is a 3 week wait to even look at it! This is not acceptable..it is happening every 2 months or so! Also the power cord fits so bad it's about to fall out. They said 'customer service' would call me later that day about a new one..of course 2 days later no call.
post #670 of 2557
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

I agree but it's still frustrating. I could probably live with it if I had to but it would still bug me. He still is under warranty but Pioneer won't do anything to fix it. So what can you do? Live with it or move on to something else.

I will be moving on next year. I want a larger display anyways and I am hoping we see some significant improvements from the top of the line Panasonic and Samsung plasmas. I was about to buy one this year but decided to wait one more year for several reasons.

I am going back and forth on whether I want to make some of these SM tweaks to help with the red tint on my 500M. The repair place that Pioneer set up to come out and install my new "firmware" is supposed to be coming by next Monday. I am not sure what I want the guy to do and if I want to try and get him to make some of these tweaks for me as Mascior's tech did for him. If I knew that making these tweaks wouldn't affect the panel for another10000+ hrs then I would probably go ahead and do the adjustments since I am planning on getting a larger TV next year anyways which will replace the 500M and become my main display.
post #671 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

I will be moving on next year. I want a larger display anyways and I am hoping we see some significant improvements from the top of the line Panasonic and Samsung plasmas. I was about to buy one this year but decided to wait one more year for several reasons.

I am going back and forth on whether I want to make some of these SM tweaks to help with the red tint on my 500M. The repair place that Pioneer set up to come out and install my new "firmware" is supposed to be coming by next Monday. I am not sure what I want the guy to do and if I want to try and get him to make some of these tweaks for me as Mascior's tech did for him. If I knew that making these tweaks wouldn't affect the panel for another10000+ hrs then I would probably go ahead and do the adjustments since I am planning on getting a larger TV next year anyways which will replace the 500M and become my main display.

Totally understand. I think my friend is also moving on. His set is really not that bad but I admit his black levels are also elevated, just with a red tint. I could definitely see red (albeit faintly) in the top right corner while watching the Phantom Menace at his house tonight). Of course I was focusing on it. Honestly it was okay for most of the scenes we watched and I think you could learn to forget about it.

He has a really good offer from a person he knows to buy the set so I think he is going to take it. I don't blame him honestly because if he passes on this, he won't get this offer again down the road. He might buy a cheap tv just to get by with for now and see what CES holds. If nothing changes, I think he is going to try and swing an Elite LCD.
post #672 of 2557
Thread Starter 
So the question is....does the guy that has made the great offer for the TV know about the red tint? If I sold my TV I almost feel obligated to tell the person. Guess it is a moral decision lol
post #673 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac13 View Post

So the question is....does the guy that has made the great offer for the TV know about the red tint? If I sold my TV I almost feel obligated to tell the person. Guess it is a moral decision lol

Yes he does. He doesn't think it's a big issue. My friend is torn because he knows only the Elite LCD is close to what he has now. He was looking at the 70" Sharp 732 LCD but is sensitive to clouding/flashlights like I am. He doesn't want to spend that much money on the Elite if he can avoid it (even if he sold it, he would still have to come up with a decent amount to get the Elite).

He just called me a few minutes ago because he doesn't like the red tint but isn't sure if he should sell it. I know if he just holds onto it and upgrades next fall, he won't get much for it then. At the same time, all sets will have issues I guess. I almost sold mine about a year ago but backed out even though I got offered a lot for it (it was at the height of people paying absurd prices just to have a kuro before they were gone). I thought at the time my ex wife had done permanent damage to mine. Even after I thought that, I still couldn't sell it because there was nothing better out there (I turned down one heck of an offer and still wonder at times if I should have taken it, lol). It turns out the set was fine though so it worked out for me in the end.
post #674 of 2557
I would rather Pioneer tell me this is a problem than to lie and say its normal. I have owned this set for close to 3 years now and this is happening. This is hard to accept when you have seen what it is capable of.
post #675 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingd View Post

I would rather Pioneer tell me this is a problem than to lie and say its normal. I have owned this set for close to 3 years now and this is happening. This is hard to accept when you have seen what it is capable of.

I totally agree. I just don't think Pioneer will ever admit that.
post #676 of 2557
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingd View Post

I would rather Pioneer tell me this is a problem than to lie and say its normal. I have owned this set for close to 3 years now and this is happening. This is hard to accept when you have seen what it is capable of.

Yep they are losing some business from us kuro owners. This will make me think twice before buying any of their other products. I'm glad I got a Denon receiver instead of Pioneer now. I know they aren't in the TV business anymore but if there is a problem with one of their products they should back it up
post #677 of 2557
So are there two different red tint issues being discussed here? One that happens over time (phosphor age?) on a fair percentage of sets, and one that is a factory (software?) error on a very small percentage of sets?
post #678 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestyk View Post

So are there two different red tint issues being discussed here? One that happens over time (phosphor age?) on a fair percentage of sets, and one that is a factory (software?) error on a very small percentage of sets?

No.
post #679 of 2557
I agree. Pioneer is not the same company they use to be. As of now, I would not spend a dime on any of their current products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

I don't think Pioneer really cares much about their tv's and monitors anymore, since they don't make them.
post #680 of 2557
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-nice View Post

as of now, i would not spend a dime on any of their current products.

zing!
post #681 of 2557
Well the engineer has been and gone.....

I showed him what the issue was which he acknowledged. He got on the phone to a contact that he has at Pioneer. He began to explain the issue to him, and the guy on the other end of the phone pretty much finished the conversation off for him without any prompting. This makes me think that he has had this conversation before. The guy at Pioneer even said that the red tint would be more noticeable in the corners of the screen.

The answer that I got back was that the Kuro cannot produce absolute black and if you watch in a room with no lights on, the risidual glow will show a hint of red in certain condition. This ties in with what D-Nice explained to me before.

That has kind of ended it for me. Pioneer may well have given me the standard response but at least I tried.

The engineer who visited had a service remote which instantly accessed my TV's service menu. My set had about 2800 hrs on it.

Perhaps I am seeing something that isn't there. D-Nice has said previously that 95% of people complaining about this issue have sets that behave normally and it is only a very small % of people that have a genuine problem.

I'll be holding on to my Kuro until OLED is available at a sensible price.

Hope everyone gets their issues sorted and enjoys their Kuro's for the outstanding TV sets that they are
post #682 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I agree. Pioneer is not the same company they use to be. As of now, I would not spend a dime on any of their current products.

Have to disagree here. They've always been primarily an high-end audio company and while they might not often release their speakers on this side of the ocean (well besides the car stereo stuff ), the high-end stuff they make is solid (headphones, receivers, speakers if you can find the euro models). I think the real issue is that they no longer have a display division so whoever is left in it are just there to handle warranty issues rather than the people you'd find there before like you might on the audio side of things where they still have employees. I think it's fair to say that it's now 4 years since they made displays so whoever cared about designing perfection in displays have since moved on to other things/companies/etc... Certainly not most of the few they've retained for repair functionality. I think it's somewhat unrealistic to expect the same level of support you'd get from a display manufacturer from one that stopped 4 years ago.

Of course it would be nice if they did, but it's understandable that they don't. Does anyone even still have a kuro w/in the manufacturer's warranty anymore?
post #683 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuroMike View Post

Well the engineer has been and gone.....

I showed him what the issue was which he acknowledged. He got on the phone to a contact that he has at Pioneer. He began to explain the issue to him, and the guy on the other end of the phone pretty much finished the conversation off for him without any prompting. This makes me think that he has had this conversation before. The guy at Pioneer even said that the red tint would be more noticeable in the corners of the screen.

The answer that I got back was that the Kuro cannot produce absolute black and if you watch in a room with no lights on, the risidual glow will show a hint of red in certain condition. This ties in with what D-Nice explained to me before.

That has kind of ended it for me. Pioneer may well have given me the standard response but at least I tried.

The engineer who visited had a service remote which instantly accessed my TV's service menu. My set had about 2800 hrs on it.

Perhaps I am seeing something that isn't there. D-Nice has said previously that 95% of people complaining about this issue have sets that behave normally and it is only a very small % of people that have a genuine problem.

I'll be holding on to my Kuro until OLED is available at a sensible price.

Hope everyone gets their issues sorted and enjoys their Kuro's for the outstanding TV sets that they are


That's pretty much the same response my friend got. My friend backed out of selling his this morning to his friend at work. He looked at all of the sets available and couldn't justify selling it even with the slight red tint. Everything else had issues he would have noticed way more (worse black levels, flashlights, clouding, etc). So he has just decided to keep it and maybe transition to OLED in a year or two. I understand his frustration about the red tint. His black levels even look a little lighter in my opinion then when he first purchased it. All in all though, nothing else beats the Kuro in my opinion right now. Even with the red tint, the set is still beautiful and the picture is still impressive (he has quite a few hours on his set). He honestly only found out about the red tint by seeing a post on the avforums website and then he started looking for it on his set.

The Elite LCD's are nice but he didn't want to spend thousands of dollars on top of what he sold it for just to get one. I don't blame him honestly. I agree Pioneer should address it but it isn't going to happen. At least he still has over a year of warranty left in case anything does happen .
post #684 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

Have to disagree here. They've always been primarily an high-end audio company and while they might not often release their speakers on this side of the ocean (well besides the car stereo stuff ), the high-end stuff they make is solid (headphones, receivers, speakers if you can find the euro models). I think the real issue is that they no longer have a display division so whoever is left in it are just there to handle warranty issues rather than the people you'd find there before like you might on the audio side of things where they still have employees. I think it's fair to say that it's now 4 years since they made displays so whoever cared about designing perfection in displays have since moved on to other things/companies/etc... Certainly not most of the few they've retained for repair functionality. I think it's somewhat unrealistic to expect the same level of support you'd get from a display manufacturer from one that stopped 4 years ago.

Of course it would be nice if they did, but it's understandable that they don't. Does anyone even still have a kuro w/in the manufacturer's warranty anymore?


My friend does. I also have a little over a year left on my extended warranty.
post #685 of 2557
I haven't looked for the red tint on mine. If I did find it though, I probably would just deal with it until something better comes out. I think Pioneer should fix it but I remember buying LCD's a few years ago and clouding/flashlights driving me crazy (and being WAY more noticeable then red tint). Even with the issues, it's hard to abandon a Kuro . Bring on OLED soon though.
post #686 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuroMike View Post

Well the engineer has been and gone.....

I showed him what the issue was which he acknowledged. He got on the phone to a contact that he has at Pioneer. He began to explain the issue to him, and the guy on the other end of the phone pretty much finished the conversation off for him without any prompting. This makes me think that he has had this conversation before. The guy at Pioneer even said that the red tint would be more noticeable in the corners of the screen.

The answer that I got back was that the Kuro cannot produce absolute black and if you watch in a room with no lights on, the risidual glow will show a hint of red in certain condition. This ties in with what D-Nice explained to me before.

That has kind of ended it for me. Pioneer may well have given me the standard response but at least I tried.

The engineer who visited had a service remote which instantly accessed my TV's service menu. My set had about 2800 hrs on it.

Perhaps I am seeing something that isn't there. D-Nice has said previously that 95% of people complaining about this issue have sets that behave normally and it is only a very small % of people that have a genuine problem.

I'll be holding on to my Kuro until OLED is available at a sensible price.

Hope everyone gets their issues sorted and enjoys their Kuro's for the outstanding TV sets that they are

Do you have the KRP500A or KRP500M
post #687 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover View Post

Have to disagree here. They've always been primarily an high-end audio company and while they might not often release their speakers on this side of the ocean (well besides the car stereo stuff ), the high-end stuff they make is solid (headphones, receivers, speakers if you can find the euro models). I think the real issue is that they no longer have a display division so whoever is left in it are just there to handle warranty issues rather than the people you'd find there before like you might on the audio side of things where they still have employees. I think it's fair to say that it's now 4 years since they made displays so whoever cared about designing perfection in displays have since moved on to other things/companies/etc... Certainly not most of the few they've retained for repair functionality. I think it's somewhat unrealistic to expect the same level of support you'd get from a display manufacturer from one that stopped 4 years ago.

Of course it would be nice if they did, but it's understandable that they don't. Does anyone even still have a kuro w/in the manufacturer's warranty anymore?

My warranty expires in May 2012 on my PRO-111
post #688 of 2557
I have an opportunity to purchase a KRP500M with under 50 hours on it, original box included for just over half of what the fire sale was on these.

so are these red tint issues and a bit of black level rise happening with just this model and after many hours of use? I
have a pro-111 warranty from factory expires may 2012 and then I have an extended warranty through B.B. for 2 mores years after that. I also have a pdp-5010 which is a great display but not as good as the pro-111. So since I dont know much about the krp500m is there a big picture/performance difference between the 500 and the 111? I understand no speakers or tuner on the 500m.

If the 500m is a buggy display I am wondering if it is worth having it around just for a spare in case one of my other displays goes out even for the cost that I described above.
post #689 of 2557
Quote:
Originally Posted by baron2 View Post

I have an opportunity to purchase a KRP500M with under 50 hours on it, original box included for just over half of what the fire sale was on these.

so are these red tint issues and a bit of black level rise happening with just this model and after many hours of use? I
have a pro-111 warranty from factory expires may 2012 and then I have an extended warranty through B.B. for 2 mores years after that. I also have a pdp-5010 which is a great display but not as good as the pro-111. So since I dont know much about the krp500m is there a big picture/performance difference between the 500 and the 111? I understand no speakers or tuner on the 500m.

KRP-500 is overall a touch better than 111 since it is 9.5G, where 111 is 9G panel. Slightly better black level, less DSE typically, etc.. etc.. but no tuner because it's considered a monitor where 111 is a tv.

Quote:


If the 500m is a buggy display I am wondering if it is worth having it around just for a spare in case one of my other displays goes out even for the cost that I described above.

From my experience, it's a rock solid display. Black levels on mine are perfectly neutral even w/lights off. Yes, they are not perfectly black in a totally dark room, but closest you can get. With a small amount of light in the room, perceived black drops to 0 though. I have not noticed the set get any brighter/darker over time or develop any kind of tint. Pretty much darkest you can get without sacrificing shadow detail.

I still have an extended warranty on mine (not through Pio), but I would check the set out in person and make sure there's nothing wrong with it. Even if it's under warranty from Pio direct, it sounds like there's a good chance they wouldn't cover red tint or similar defects that don't prevent the set from working. And my general impression is that people looking to sell probably are people who've got some defect that developed since it'd be kind of irrational to sell one unless you really wanted a 3D display badly, needed money, or similar considerations. For instance, I see one listed on fleabay right now, but it has an annoying hot pixel that the seller is likely downplaying (assuming it's the only thing slightly off).

If you do buy the one you found, make sure to check thoroughly for IR (kuros tend to be quite resistant, but again be careful so you don't get had) and also make sure they can provide a copy of the original receipt. Buying a stolen set is never a good idea (not to mention immoral) and I think there's a number of kuro owners who might take the effort to hunt down their set to reclaim so it's a good idea to make sure you're getting legit used rather than hot merchandise.
post #690 of 2557
I would still consider buying a new Pioneer receiver (my SC-05 is still afloat), DJ'ing equipment and possibly even their mobile electronics if I was in the market. I've already sworn against Sony (but broke my word and bought their boombox) and Samdung (but picked up a couple of their washer/dryer appliances). Panasonique isn't really looking attractive at the moment, and I am neutral on LG.
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