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Transformers: Dark of the Moon (Blu-ray) Official AVSForum Review - Page 7

post #181 of 284
10/5/11 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

First off, I agree that at AVS of all places it makes perfect sense to be curious about what sort of ULF filtering goes on in a soundtrack and why it was done that way.

I can't remember ever hearing better surround effects on my system than those of Transformer 3's TrueHD 7.1 audiotrack. I kept thinking I had intruders who were attacking me from the side and rear.

+1

I was way more impressed with the immersive sound field and the spatial effects than "room rocking LFE".

The dynamics seemed better in this release, as the last movie seemed mostly just "loud".

On the video front, they toned down the solar flares this time, too. I guess Star Trek maintains that record.
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post #182 of 284
10/5/11 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

There was a lot of very fun "room shaking" bass in this. However, I thought it was a little one note oriented and seemed like the same effect over and over. The scene where the building starts to go over it dug a little deeper and was a step up, but over all the LFE was not as good as Battle LA which I AB'd to this last night. I do not own Tron but I remember some very special lfe in Tron as compared to your normal stuff. This is such a good audio track that it is natural to be compared to the best audio tracks released. I have four 18" drivers in an IB setup that is good for pure tone and handle really low stuff well. The mains are pro style 98 db with a 15" woofer and excellent above 40 herz. I am pretty sure I was getting all it had to offer and it was lacking in ULF compared to other tracks - and what was represented on screen. Doesn't mean it is not a killer track

Holy speaker setup Batman! Are your walls and windows still intact after watching TF3.
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post #183 of 284
10/5/11 at 9:53pm
I have a 5.1 setup but I ended up watching it in dts-hd 7.1 bc the bass was more satisfying and I didn't feel like changing my levels just for that movie at the time.
it made me want two surrounds.
tron legacy definitely kicked more but basswise
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post #184 of 284
10/6/11 at 6:06am
VIDEO INTERVIEW WITH Sound Mixer Greg Russell

Below is a video of Sound Mixer, Greg P. Russell you may enjoy. In the video, Greg chats about the stunning 7.1 surround mix and the explosive special effects Transformers: Dark of the Moon unleashes on Blu-ray in Dolby TrueHD 7.1. Dolby provided us with this for our readers. Thanks Dolby.

Direct Link... http://vimeo.com/29745810

Dolby TrueHD 7.1 Interview with Transformers: Dark of the Moon re-recording mixer, Greg Russell from Michael Coleman on Vimeo.

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post #185 of 284
10/6/11 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elbrunoloco View Post

I have a 5.1 setup but I ended up watching it in dts-hd 7.1 bc the bass was more satisfying and I didn't feel like changing my levels just for that movie at the time.
it made me want two surrounds.
tron legacy definitely kicked more but basswise

I also have a 5.1 setup. So the 7.1 sounded better? That makes sense but it makes me wonder why they even included the 5.1 soundtrack? I guess my question is what would be the advantage of using the 5.1 soundtrack if the sound is better on the 7.1? (forgive me if this is a stupid question, I'm kinda learning about audio on the fly)
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post #186 of 284
10/6/11 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmathers View Post


I also have a 5.1 setup. So the 7.1 sounded better? That makes sense but it makes me wonder why they even included the 5.1 soundtrack? I guess my question is what would be the advantage of using the 5.1 soundtrack if the sound is better on the 7.1? (forgive me if this is a stupid question, I'm kinda learning about audio on the fly)

There is no advantage because your receiver takes it from 7.1 and converts it to 5.1. The 7.1 track is lossless while the 5.1 is Dolby digital/lossy. No advantage whatsoever.
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post #187 of 284
10/6/11 at 8:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmathers View Post

I also have a 5.1 setup. So the 7.1 sounded better? That makes sense but it makes me wonder why they even included the 5.1 soundtrack? I guess my question is what would be the advantage of using the 5.1 soundtrack if the sound is better on the 7.1? (forgive me if this is a stupid question, I'm kinda learning about audio on the fly)

BD specifications and legacy support are the reasons. TrueHD is an optional codec while Dolby is mandatory. Not everyone has TrueHD decoding and the BD spec requires at lest 1 mandatory track be included. So a Dolby (or another mandatory codec) track must be included.
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post #188 of 284
10/6/11 at 8:15am
Thanks a lot mpray & william. Isn't lossless audio better than lossy? Mpray I believe you mentioned that the 5.1 was lossy while the 7.1 was lossless. Wouldn't the lossless track be most desired of the two? Thanks again
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post #189 of 284
10/6/11 at 8:18am
My understanding is that an appropriate receiver can downmix the DD THD 7.1 to DD THD 5.1, so that it will remain lossless ?
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post #190 of 284
10/6/11 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcaster View Post

My understanding is that an appropriate receiver can downmix the DD THD 7.1 to DD THD 5.1, so that it will remain lossless ?

I see. I'll try that and see If there is a difference for me. Thank you
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post #191 of 284
10/6/11 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elbrunoloco View Post

I have a 5.1 setup but I ended up watching it in dts-hd 7.1 bc the bass was more satisfying and I didn't feel like changing my levels just for that movie at the time.

?? did you mean DD THD??....there is no DTS-MA on Transformers 3
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post #192 of 284
10/6/11 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowcaster View Post

My understanding is that an appropriate receiver can downmix the DD THD 7.1 to DD THD 5.1, so that it will remain lossless ?

Yes the 7.1 to 5.1 will remain lossless as long as you have the Dolby true hd selected. When you choose the Dolby dig 5.1 you are in lossy territory.
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post #193 of 284
10/6/11 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpray1983 View Post

Yes the 7.1 to 5.1 will remain lossless as long as you have the Dolby true hd selected. When you choose the Dolby dig 5.1 you are in lossy territory.

...add to this TrueHD has metadata for down mixing (as does DTS MA too). So 7.1 to 5.1 support is "built in" and no problem.
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post #194 of 284
10/6/11 at 9:56am
Wow all good info! Thanks
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post #195 of 284
10/6/11 at 5:13pm
It seemed like I really had to crank it up a few notches... the audio seemed to be quiet in this movie compared to Thor where I was satisfied at -20db compared to the -12 to -10 for transformers.. anyone else have this problem?
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post #196 of 284
10/6/11 at 6:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzack02 View Post

It seemed like I really had to crank it up a few notches... the audio seemed to be quiet in this movie compared to Thor where I was satisfied at -20db compared to the -12 to -10 for transformers.. anyone else have this problem?

Not sure that indicates a problem, just a number on the dial.
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post #197 of 284
10/6/11 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Htdude14 View Post


Not sure that indicates a problem, just a number on the dial.

The bass just isn't there like it is in Thor or even Tron for that matter even when turned up....
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post #198 of 284
10/7/11 at 12:45am
oops ur right shadowcaster.
also lossless is preferable
I didn't know true HD would downmix good to know. I usually end up preferring a true HD mix even though I only have 5.1 and I end up wondering if I'm missing some parts of the audio field
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post #199 of 284
10/7/11 at 5:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzack02 View Post

The bass just isn't there like it is in Thor or even Tron for that matter even when turned up....

Now that indicates a problem, the bass is reference and as many others have suggested. Try exchanging discs since your system is seems fine with other movies.
cheers,
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post #200 of 284
10/7/11 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzack02 View Post

The bass just isn't there like it is in Thor or even Tron for that matter even when turned up....

Have you checked if DRC/Night mode is engaging for some reason? Overall the LFE/bass on this disc is fantastic.
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post #201 of 284
10/7/11 at 6:48am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Have you checked if DRC/Night mode is engaging for some reason? Overall the LFE/bass on this disc is fantastic.

Greetings,

I would agree. Double check to ensure that the dynamic range compression circuitry isn't being automatically engaged by the Dolby audio stream.

Regards,
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post #202 of 284
10/7/11 at 7:30pm
Yea I checked the drc on my receiver and that's not it, maybe I got a bad disc or something.. pisses me off.. in the action scenes it is just missing the full range of the LFE
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post #203 of 284
10/7/11 at 8:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzack02 View Post

Yea I checked the drc on my receiver and that's not it, maybe I got a bad disc or something.. pisses me off.. in the action scenes it is just missing the full range of the LFE

Don't sweat it! the bass is good but not Tron or Thor good. The surround is of some of the best as far as pans and envelopment and dialog is good,overall 97 for the sound in my book
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post #204 of 284
10/8/11 at 5:59am
Isn't it a case where the TRUEHD carries both the separate 5.1 and 7.1 mixes in the same stream? I believe that's the advantage that TRUEHD has over DTSMA, which basically puts the back channels into the LS,RS.
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post #205 of 284
10/8/11 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davcole View Post

Isn't it a case where the TRUEHD carries both the separate 5.1 and 7.1 mixes in the same stream? I believe that's the advantage that TRUEHD has over DTSMA, which basically puts the back channels into the LS,RS.

NO it's not separate streams but they both (TrueHD and DTS MA) carry metadata to do a down mix. I guess some could argue one has better down mix algorithms than the over but I'm not sure if theres even a measurable differance.
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post #206 of 284
10/8/11 at 7:45am
Hi Ralph,
I read through your review and all the follow-up posts, but do not find the answer to the following question:

Similar to Dark Knight and Tron Legacy, does the Transformers DOTM blu-ray have any IMAX resolution shots that take up the whole screen? I watched DOTM on IMAX and was blown away.

I'm about half way into the movie at home and all screens have had the black bands (2.35:1).

The AQ has been incredible, but I feel a little let down on the scale of the PQ due to lack of the grand IMAX images.

Thanks
KS
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post #207 of 284
10/8/11 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzack02 View Post

Yea I checked the drc on my receiver and that's not it, maybe I got a bad disc or something.. pisses me off.. in the action scenes it is just missing the full range of the LFE

I don't know what Blu-ray player you own but you should also make sure that DRC is turned off in the audio options of the player. With my player these options are only available to change with a disc playing...it's a Sony.
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post #208 of 284
10/8/11 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post


I don't know what Blu-ray player you own but you should also make sure that DRC is turned off in the audio options of the player. With my player these options are only available to change with a disc playing...it's a Sony.

I have a ps3.. works fine for every other bluray I have except transformers 3, I don't think you can change things like that while watching the disc, I think it makes you go back to the power on menus. Its very disappointing because when I see the big actions scenes I know they are suppose to sound amazing but it is lacking big time!
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post #209 of 284
10/8/11 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzack02 View Post

I have a ps3.. works fine for every other bluray I have except transformers 3, I don't think you can change things like that while watching the disc, I think it makes you go back to the power on menus. Its very disappointing because when I see the big actions scenes I know they are suppose to sound amazing but it is lacking big time!

Maybe this?

Quote:


From the thread for this title in the software forum, it has been confirmed that this title is doing something peculiar that activates the Dynamic Range Control in the PS3 and in many decoding receivers, causing the audio dynamics to be reduced by an unexpected amount when the decoding happens.

The fix is to go into the BD settings in the PS3 and change the Dynamic Range Control audio feature to "OFF". DRC is set to "Automatic" by factory default in the PS3.

Turning the DRC audio setting OFF in the PS3, and leaving it OFF, is also the recommended setting in the PS3 FAQ sticky thread in the Blu-Ray player forum here.

Decoding receivers (e.g., the Onkyo receivers) likely have a similar setting that needs to be checked/changed.

---------------------------------

Now the first pressing of "Iron Man" Blu-Ray has been recalled by the studio apparently for problems playing on some players, and I don't know if the fixed pressing -- just now shipping -- includes a fix for this as well. So that may explain why some early purchasers would hear this problem and others wouldn't.

But in any event, if you turn off DRC in the PS3's BD Settings, and leave it off, this problem with Iron Man (and any other titles that might share this issue) should go away.
--Bob

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post14777283
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post #210 of 284
10/8/11 at 1:07pm
I fixed it... for some reason DRC was turned ON on my ps3.. damn now I need to watch Thor and Tron over if its going to sound even better.. thanks guys
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