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Help please, can't hook up pc to Philips 47" HDTV

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
I'd appreciate any help that users can give me on this issue.

It's a long story, unfortunately.

I bought a Philips 47" HDTV, specifically for use with a pc as a display. I was attracted to the Philips by virtue of the large range of screen resolutions quoted in the spec when used with a pc.

I didn't realise that the TV did not have a VGA input, but since the video card on my pc had a DVI output, I figured I could use a DVI to HDMI adaptor and hook up the pc to the TV with an HDMI cable.

My pc is an old Pentium 4c unit, an HP A350N, into which I had fitted a Radeon 1650 Pro video card.

I was unable to get any picture on the TV with the pc hooked up, no matter what resolution I tried, nor which of the four HDMI inputs I hooked the pc up to.

I was able to use the S-Video output of the 1650 to get a picture on the TV, using the S-Video input, but the picture was awful - really fuzzy, and unusable.

I decided to install a new video card, with an HDMI output on it. The card is a bit of an oddity, since it uses an AGP interface, but I figured it would give me better graphics performance than the old 1650.

After installing the card and Catalyst Control Center and drivers, and checking that everything was working with a 22" LCD monitor connected by DVI cable, I tried the pc hooked up to the HDTV with an HDMI cable.

Upon starting to boot up, the TV showed a 1920 x 1080 60Hz image (that information showed at the top of the TV screen) - but just for the 256 colour bios and initial phase of XP booting up. At the point where the blue XP welcome screen appears, the HDTV screen went blank.

I tried hooking the pc up to a relative's Vizio 42" HDTV - and there were no problems whatsoever! I could get a full 1920 x 1080 picture, using a refresh rate of 60Hz. Initially, I noticed that the screen picture had a black border around it, about 1" or so wide. When I checked in the Catalyst Control Center, it seems that there is a default underscan setting of about 7%. When I reset that to 0%, the picture filled the HDTV screen, with no border.

At that point, I thought I was onto something - perhaps the Philips HDTV couldn't cope with that default underscan, so I thought there was a chance that it would now work with the underscan set to 0%.

Unfortunately, it was not to be.

I next tried uninstalling all of the display drivers. When I booted up the pc, with the Philips HDTV connected, I got a picture, and Windows XP booted up successfully. But the image was only 1024 x 768, scaled to fill the whole TV screen.

After XP had booted up, it detected new hardware - a VGA controller, and prompted for installing software. When I allow it to install the software (HD4650 drivers) and then go into display settings to change the display resolution to any of the resolutions listed in the Philips HDTV manual, I lose the picture, and return to a situation where I get a picture on the TV only for the initial phase of the pc boot up.

It seems like no matter what I do, the Philips TV will not work with the plug and play display drivers, or any of the AMD drivers.

Can anybody help me sort this out? Upon calling Philips support, they simply state that there's no guarantee of the TV working with all pc's, and that it's a pc problem not a problem with their TV.

From this experience, I can only deduce that Philips TV's have far worse pc connectivity than other TV's - and that's ironic, since I specifically chose this TV to work as a display for my pc.
post #2 of 30
I had a problem similar to this with my LG plasma and an HD5670 card. It says in the TV's manual it supports 60Hz but what it really supports is 59.94Hz. Setting any resolution at 60Hz causes "No Signal". Unfortunately, the driver either detected 59.94 and set it to 60 or detected the refresh rate wrong hence a blank screen. Setting the resolution to 59Hz made it show up fine.

This issue didn't happen when I swapped out my system to use the Intel iGPU in the i3-2100. The driver got it right and set to 59.94Hz instead of 60Hz.

Are you able to see the PC's desktop if you boot into Safe Mode?
post #3 of 30
Thread Starter 
Hi there StardogChampion, and thanks for responding!

In answer to your question - and I should have included this in my story - yes, I do get a picture on the TV in Safe mode - but I think it's also 1024 x 768 scaled to fit the screen.

It's funny - I thought AMD video cards had the frame rates all correct, in contrast to some Intel IGP's.

Is there a way for me to try fractional refresh rates? The Philips manual suggest 60Hz for all the supported pc resolutions.
post #4 of 30
If you go through the Control Panel in Windows, you should be able to display all the resolutions and pick 59 as the refresh rate (59 = 59.94Hz in Windows) and 1920 x 1080 as the resolution. You can then reboot into normal Windows and see if it shows up.

IIRC, that's what I had to do for my LG. It was last Christmas when I went through all this so my memory is a bit foggy.
post #5 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post

It's funny - I thought AMD video cards had the frame rates all correct, in contrast to some Intel IGP's.

Nope. Been trying to fix this myth for a while now.
post #6 of 30
I read on Tom's Hardware that Intel sucks so it must be true .

Sorry - just another Intel fanboi trolling. I'll stop.
post #7 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

If you go through the Control Panel in Windows, you should be able to display all the resolutions and pick 59 as the refresh rate (59 = 59.94Hz in Windows) and 1920 x 1080 as the resolution. You can then reboot into normal Windows and see if it shows up.

IIRC, that's what I had to do for my LG. It was last Christmas when I went through all this so my memory is a bit foggy.

Thanks again! I found some 59Hz settings when I clicked on the "list all modes" button, in the "adapter" tab of the dialog box that comes up when you click on the "advanced" button of the "Display Properties" dialog box, including one for 1920 x 1080 True Color (32 bit) I'll give that a try tomorrow, fingers crossed.

RE the frame rate thing - it's a known and widely acknowledged fact that Intel HD3000 does not handle 3:2 pull down properly whereas AMD does. It's not really a fanboy issue, and something everyone hopes will be sorted in the next iteration of Intel IGP.
post #8 of 30
Thread Starter 
Well I tried setting my display to 1920 x 1080 32 bit color 59Hz, but still no picture.

Checking the Philips manual again, my 47" HDTV is supposed to support pc input up to WUXGA.
post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post

Well I tried setting my display to 1920 x 1080 32 bit color 59Hz, but still no picture.

Checking the Philips manual again, my 47" HDTV is supposed to support pc input up to WUXGA.

You know, I've never set any of my HDTVs to PC mode in order to hook up a computer by HDMI. I just connect it as I would a blu ray player or any other HDMI device, and it's worked fine, and that includes LG, Pioneer and Panasonic LCDs and plasmas.

I'd try NOT setting it to PC mode and see if that works.

Also, have you tried using each of the HDMI inputs on the TV and see if any of them work? I can't explain why, but sometimes switching inputs seems to help.
post #10 of 30
Thread Starter 
Hi and thanks for your response!

I don't actually set the Philips specifically to pc input - in fact, in the TV menu, the pc setting only appears when the TV detects a pc.

I've tried hooking up the pc to all four of the HDMI, inputs, but unfortunately with the same result for all of them. I get an image during the early part of the Windows XP boot - presumably before the main video drivers are loaded, but then when XP goes into the welcome screen and presumably loads drivers, the TV screen goes blank.

It's very frustrating!
post #11 of 30
Thread Starter 
Just a thought - can anyone out there confirm that they're getting their comparable Philips HDTV to work with their pc? I'm hoping to borrow a friend's notebook to try with mine, since it has native HDMI out, and Intel graphics.
post #12 of 30
Thread Starter 
I managed to try out the Philips TV hooked up to an Intel notebook, with Intel GMA graphics - and it worked fine, at 1920 x 1080, 60Hz.

So there's obviously something about the AMD drivers that the TV doesn't like.
post #13 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post

I managed to try out the Philips TV hooked up to an Intel notebook, with Intel GMA graphics - and it worked fine, at 1920 x 1080, 60Hz.

So there's obviously something about the AMD drivers that the TV doesn't like.

My HDTV too. Join the club.

Switched to Intel a while back and haven't looked back.
post #14 of 30
Thread Starter 
I'm not looking to join any sort of having-to-buy-a-new-pc-club, be it Intel or AMD - all I want to do is sort out this darn problem! My pc choices are generally based on value for money, so for what I do, that currently favours AMD. The problem pc, of course, is an old Intel one, though with AMD graphics. I very much doubt any aspect of the problem relates to the CPU.

I would welcome any further constructive suggestions. AMD have hinted at some sort of driver customisation, but it seems like a nuclear option to me, requiring me to learn far more about video drivers than I ever wanted to.
post #15 of 30
I don't think it is necessarily an Ati problem. It may just be that specific card. You can get a Ati 5450 for about $20. It might fix it.
post #16 of 30
Thread Starter 
I doubt that a 5450 would be available with an AGP interface - my HIS 4650 is something of an oddity, combining a relatively recent card with an old interface. I certainly have no intention of dropping more money on yet another card. After all, my old 1650 pro should have worked, using the DVI to HDMI adapter. Both cards work flawlessly with a Vizio TV. Whatever the problem is, it might even be the same thing that prevented the 1650 from working with the TV. I will say again that Philips Tech Support have been completely useless in this matter, and that would be enough to put me off buying anything Philips ever again. The remote control that comes with the TV has pathetic range, and is so directional that it has to be aimed like a rifle at the TV sensor. So, unless anyone can point me to the cause of this problem, I'd advise anyone to avoid buying a Philips HDTV if they intend to use it with an HTPC.
post #17 of 30
Agreed. Lost the sight that this was an agp card and that it worked on the vizio.

Can you.take the tv back and get a samsung, Sony, panasonic, etc?
post #18 of 30
I thought AMD video cards had the frame rates all correct

post #19 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by obinGilchrist View Post

I thought AMD video cards had the frame rates all correct


that may well b e true - but it's not necessarily a frame rate issue that's causing my Philips TV not to see the output from my video card. I've been an avid reader of HTPC video card reviews on the likes of Anandtech, and note that the AMD cards seem to score highest in the various video picture quality tests - but one thing the reviews never tested was the compatibility of the cards with various HDTV's. It wouldn't really matter if an AMD card had the perfect picture quality score if you couldn't get it to give a picture on your chosen HDTV display.

I've just about given up on this - I doubt I will be able to figure out the cause of my troubles. AMD have washed their hands of the matter, so my only option is to try to find a pc that I know for certain will work with my TV - and that will have to be one with Intel graphics, despite their lower scores in image quality tests.

Shame on Philips, shame on AMD. Don't buy either!
post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post

I doubt that a 5450 would be available with an AGP interface - my HIS 4650 is something of an oddity, combining a relatively recent card with an old interface.

I think a 4650 or 4670 is about the best you can do with an AGP interface.
post #21 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

I think a 4650 or 4670 is about the best you can do with an AGP interface.

Well there was a more powerful card made - an AGP 3850 - but you'd have to find a used one.
post #22 of 30
What is the model of your TV?

BTW: ignore obinGilchrist, it's a spammer that copies and pastes from a post above his so that he can build up a post count in order to post links.
post #23 of 30
Thread Starter 
usual mix of forum freaks then!

My TV is a Philips 47PFL3704D/F7
post #24 of 30
According to the manual, a PC should be connected to HDMI 3 only it seems. The PC option should appear in the TV's mode settings for any of the following resolutions:
  • 720x480p@60 Hz
  • 1280x720p@60 Hz
  • 1920x1080p@24/25/30/50/60 Hz
Have you tried all of those resolutions? Most tvs that accept 23/59 from the ATI cards will also accept 24/60.
post #25 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

According to the manual, a PC should be connected to HDMI 3 only it seems. The PC option should appear in the TV's mode settings for any of the following resolutions:
  • 720x480p@60 Hz
  • 1280x720p@60 Hz
  • 1920x1080p@24/25/30/50/60 Hz
Have you tried all of those resolutions? Most tvs that accept 23/59 from the ATI cards will also accept 24/60.

Hi vladd (not the impaler!), and thanks for taking the time to come back.

Most of my attempts have been with the pc connected to HDMI 3. In fact I'm now kicking myself for not checking the other HDMI inputs with a friend's Intel notebook pc, that worked just fine connected to HDMI 3, at both 1366 x 768 and 1920 x 1080, both 60Hz.

I must admit I have also not checked anything other than 60Hz and 59Hz refresh rates - the latter after a post by StardogChampion that got my hopes up! Thus far I have tried 1024 x 768 60Hz (since that definitely works when I'm in Safe mode), 1280 x 720, 1280 x 768, 1920 x 1080.

In all cases, when I go into the TV menu and select "Features", "Mode Selection" only shows during the initial (pre plug and play drivers) part of the XP boot, and disappears when XP gets to the blue "Welcome" screen, at which point it has loaded the display drivers.

So the TV initially senses that it's connected to a pc, but is then incompatible with the loaded drivers.

With the pc booted up and connected, but no picture showing on the TV, it's noticeable that it takes the TV a good few seconds of "thinking time" when I switch from another input to HDMI 3, before it comes up with a blue screen and a "No Signal" message. By contrast, if I then switch to an unused input, it comes up with the "No Signal" message almost instantly. So it seems like it "knows" that there's something there but it's not quite right.

Whilst I consider myself to be fairly handy with most things, this is going beyond my knowledge of display drivers, and I'm not sure I could attempt any driver customisation as suggested by AMD.
post #26 of 30
I'm not sure if this will help but try stopping and disabling the "AMD External Events Utility" service. I did this to prevent my desktop from resizing whenever I turned off the TV.

Edit: If that doesn't work, see the thread about EDID overrides (which I assume is the customization that AMD recommends). Tulli wrote a good guide on it: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1227161

You'll need to capture and post your EDID in that thread and we can see it that is the issue.
post #27 of 30
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions - I'll give them a shot tomorrow and report back. I was slumming it tonight watching movies on a 22" monitor....
post #28 of 30
Thread Starter 
Thanks to everyone who responded to my plea with constructive suggestions!

I think it was probably vladd's advice that sorted things - but I'm not sure!

I decided to uninstall all the ATI stuff on my pc, and purged the registry to make sure I'd gotten rid of every trace.

I then rebooted the pc. In this mode, with the default non-plug and play drivers, I get a picture on the TV. Upon being prompted to install the software for the newly discovered hardware, (VGA adaptor) I let XP install the HD4600 series drivers, but then went into Services and disabled both the "ATI Hotkey Polling" and ATI Smart" services.

After that, I was able to reboot and set the TV resolution to 1920 x 1080 60Hz and it all works.

I may try re-enabling either or both of the aforementioned services to see which one is the "culprit".

Anyhow, thanks again everyone, and I hope this harrowing experience of mne might be of some help to a future frustrated Philips HDTV user!
post #29 of 30
Thread Starter 
Update

Just an update to this. I never did track down the cause of the problem, nor did I really solve it. Philips Tech Support were utterly useless throughout. Although the TV has a good bright picture, I would not choose a Philips again. The remote control has a maximum range of 12ft - which for a 47" TV is worse than pathetic. Considering the TV is not a bottom end product, I fail to understand why the remote should be so poor - it even looks and feels really cheap.

As for using the TV hooked up to my pc, it seems that it must be some sort of timing issue. once in a blue moon, I can open the display properties dialogue box and check the box to enable the TV as monitor 2 at 1920x1080, and it will work right away. Most of the time, however, the setting does not take, and I have to recheck the box and click on "apply" again - sometimes having to go thru over one hundred cycles of doing this before the TV connects to the pc. I'd say that on average, it takes maybe fifty cycles. Every now and then, the TV will connect, but default to 640x480 - which doesn't even appear as one of the resolution options in the display properties dialogue box. It will however then accept a change up to 1920 x1080.

The thing that bothered me most about this whole business was the Philips Tech Support attitude - they merely stated that there was no guarantee of a TV being able to connect to a pc. I'll be sure never to buy a Philips monitor!

It's ironic that my principal motivation for buying the Philips, over several other TV's I'd looked at, was the claimed large range of screen resolutions it could work at. In fact since the TV has no VGA connector, it is less convenient, especially when using an older pc or laptop. By contrast I can hook up my VGA equipped laptop to friends' Sony and Vizio TV's with no problems whatsoever, and set them to work at a range of different resolutions.
post #30 of 30
I didn't read through the whole thread, but wanted to let you know that I have a philips 47" HDTV using the intel i340 on a gigabyte motherboard and have had no issues with hooking my HTPC to it. It is running at 1920x1080 at 60hz.
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