Dayton / Lima, OH - HDTV - Page 148

I think this is TWC's move to compete with D* and put some action behind their reasoning to block D*'s BTTF "More HD than cable" ad. So, I would expect these channels to stay along with some other additions like the ESPN2HD that's already in the works.

Any word on TWC offering Fox Sports HD for Reds games? Wishful thinking I presume... I cannot WAIT to get satellite.

Don't jump on the satellite band wagon just yet. None of the Reds games have been on the traditional HD channels. There was a claim made that the Wednesday game was available from the spot beam on the regular channel for FSN-Cinci SD. I will try and confirm that claim on Saturday night, but until then don't assume D* has the games until the new satellites go up (some time LATE summer).

Hartsock even promoted it earlier this week during newscast - even though the graphic shown only mentioned "707"/TW channel, Hartsock mentioned it was available OTA as well ....

What is the Best antenna? and where is the best place to get it.... I live on a Hill in Middletown, Ohio and have a Olevia LT32HV 32" HD-Ready Flat-Panel LCD TV.... Thank you.... You can contact me by messenger or e-mail... I use Time Warner Cable and sick of the High Price for it.... Thinking about switching to satellite either Dish or Directv is it worth it...
Thanks, Robert

Over the past 1-2 weeks I have noticed a significant increase in artifacting/pixilating on TWC digital channels. It started up at 114-1 (DiscoveryHD) and 114-2 (TNTHD) and has been "going down hill" from there. (I have a Toshiba with QAM tuner, so I am just getting the unencrypted digital channels.) Today, the pixilating was really bad on 22-1 and and 16-2. If I do OTA, things are fine, so I am thinking (hoping!) it is not my tuner.

Anyone know what might be causing this? Has TWC done any signficant system changes over the past couple of weeks? (I am in the Beavercreek area.) For the most part, I am getting a very strong signal with occasional drop outs, so it seems that it is something with the cable system

Any thoughts will be appreciated!

Thanks!

Don

DiscoveryHD was very pixelated for me at one point last week. The next day UHD was added, so who knows maybe they are adding more HD stuff (ESPN2HD, VersusHD maybe )

So are you saying they are now compressing the HD signals, browerjs?

I have no idea, I noticed no difference between DiscoveryHD before/after UHD was added. Just that there was some problems with DiscoveryHD the day/morning before UHD showed up.

I actually think it's more of a coincedence that this happened, but don't really know.

Remember the discussions about WDTN on TWC-Dayton ?? At one time I was told they didn't have the capacity to add WDTN, besides the fact about the negotiations going nowhere. They aren't doing digital simulcasting nor switched digital video, so where is the add'l capacity for UHD (and ESPN2-HD later) coming from ??

They may not be compressing the channels but are simply over-capacity. They can get away with it most of the time, I'm sure. When the channels need a reasonable amount of bandwidth, things are fine but if they get some fast-action stuff timed together, they could max out and things will pixellate. It will get better, errr, worse, when ESPN2-HD comes online.

Did Time Warner Dayton add UniversalHD? If they did, where is it, and what package do you have to have to get it?

D

I want to redefine the "pixelation" i was seeing on DiscoveryHD. It wasn't fast action pixelation like you may see on CBS-HD during a basketball game, but it was more of a video stream breakup with mass pixelation. (the audio may have even been dropping, i don't really remember).

Like I said this may have nothing to do with TWC dayton, and may have even been DiscoveryHD themselves (this was at 7:00 AM on last tues. and the only reason i even noticed it was because I was running Discovery HD 24-7 to break in my new plasma).

And i was only seeing this through my SA8300HD box, when i checked my LCD and it's QAM tuner nothing was coming through on 114-1. So what I'm seeing may or may not be realated to what the OP is seeing.

It was added last Wed. in the HDTV tier (channel 761). You should have it if you have the package that includes ESPNHD, etc.

I'm assuming it's still there, but I never looked last night to see if they kept it around post-Masters.

The whole we are completely out of room for WDTN was total BS. Back when INHD2 was on, TWC managed to have both WDTN and WBTD available through the diagnostic menu (and presumably QAM). At one point UHD had been added as well.

Each analog channel can reportedly support two or three HD stations at full or nearly full bitrate (I believe 45 mbps total per channel). I haven't checked for awhile, but at one time ABC and FOX/MYNTV shared the equivalent of one analog channel. The same was true with respect to DiscoveryHD and TNTHD. The addition of another HD station, such as ESPN2HD, on a separate analog channel wouldn't change things. It would change things if it were the third or fourth HD station occupying the same channel as DiscoveryHD and TNTHD.

UHD replaced INHD2 so nothing has changed as far as that addition.
No one has the answer on exactly what is available. However, mere observation tells me that space is available. UPN was dropped just this January -- thats space for two or three new HD stations -- hopefully ESPN2HD, BIG10-HD and FSN-Ohio-HD.

The lack of room answer came from engineering, not customer service, programming, marketing, etc, etc. To be specific, here's how it went:

Me:
Response:
I think you can trust that the response is from the technical or engineering side of TWC....

As with all digital broadcast stations, Transport stream for WDTN-DT Digital (that includes 2.1 and 2.2) is 19.38Mb/s maximum. that would fit in 3MHZ (1/2 channel ) on TW's system. Shave a few Mb/s off that for 2.1 only, shave off more if they are using Rate shaping and squeezing 3 HD into 1 QAM channel ...


I think its 38 Mb/s available payload in 6MHZ channel using QAM 256 signal modulation. It's about the same with 16VSB which can be used with cable as well, but I don't think anyone is using it, and I think they've pretty much settled on QAM for digital cable in U.S.

It's only 19.38Mb/s payload in 6MHZ channel OTA with ATSC 8VSB because the rest of the bandwidth(it's something over 30Mb/s total, I'm sure HDTVfanatic or other broadcast pro's that may be reading could give you the exact #'s, as I don't have them handy at present) is needed for Trellis coding+error correction for robust OTA transmission+reception, something that's not necessary when sending signal over a wire. The maximum datarates for other signal modulations in use for OTA DTV around the world aren't much different from that.

You hit the big number right - its 38.81Mbps on 256/QAM 6Mhz Channel.

QAM has been settled on for cable in the USA.

For ATSC 8VSB and Trellis Coding, use this handy cheat sheet near the bottom of the page:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html

The TWC technician just left and the verdict is that the main trunk line has a problem! The digital channels were anywhere from 7 to 15 db below nominal! (Why the set was saying signal strength was okay puzzles me!). Tech started at the TV and measured the signal. Said he would have to put a whole house amp on things. Told him there already was one and he immediately checked the level going into it. Needless to say, that signal was below spec. Then went out to the pedastal and checked all the outputs of the splitter on the main line; all low power. Topping things off is that the splitter that feeds my house and the 2 neighbors is at the end of that particular cable run. He said the ticket would be turned over to PM (plant maintenance, as in physical plant?)


At least it is not my set!

Don

My, I can't tell with any certianity if at least one of the WHIO-DT studio cams is HD or SD! Just nothing that pops out and gives it away for the "anchor desk" shot .. Very nice ....

I also like the 4x3 with "Wings" I saw during WHIO-DT local newscasts, today!

Update: added quotation marks to "wings" .... Or more specifically, colored pillarbars for those that don't like the term "wings", or don't think "wings" is specific enough in this case because there was no content in them besides a blue color ... LOL ..... It can really get silly can't it .......

I haven't had a chance to watch it much in the last week, but what I saw near end of 5:30 newscasts today seemed to indicate they are perhaps moving more to 4x3 with "wings" for 4x3 content(what little of it there has been, which is also very nice). I hope so, I like it so much better than the alternatives .....

I don't think the "expanded 4x3"-* was working too well, especially given they are doing center cut of it for the analog broadcast ....

* - Note -- I do have a hard time calling that, as it just seems to me to be be too "nice" of a name for it, given what it looks like ...

I did notice some fairly pronounced ghosts early last week during a couple of the field reports -- Not unusual for remote broadcasts in the analog world, but I wasn't quite expecting it in this case ...

Anyway --- don't want to sound too repetitive, but from what I've seen of it so far, They're really doing a fine Job with it, IMO ....



Thanks, I think that is also a pretty good ATSC DTV summary for folks who don't want to dig through the details of the ATSC white papers. I do especially like their "Guide to DTV standard" document however ...

Anyway, Here's another one that has that info also, as well as more 8VSB specific info for folks who might be interested in "how stuff works" :

http://www.broadcast.net/~sbe1/8vsb/8vsb.htm

Posted this in Cincinnati thread, but thought I'd post it here as well Since The Cincinnati stations pretty much cover Dayton area as well, and I know some of you might not read Cincinnati thread :

Cincinnati transmitters coverage maps have been added here :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&page=1&pp=30

This should be a great tool, such as for anyone looking at OTA reception possibilities/conditions for their specific location, especially perhaps when terrain obstruction may be an issue - Thanks much to Andy S. Lee for putting it together for us!

----------------

Update : Note that Longely-Rice coverage maps for all the Dayton transmitters are Included in the Current Cincinnati file as well, so this should still be useful now for Dayton metro area folks. We'll have to wait a while for Columbus/Lima/etc, and the centered on "dayton MSA" file.

Pretty cool, and looks to be pretty accurate with what I get with the exception of one or two of the analogs.

Does anyone know why the satellite view turns blurry to the west of I-75? Just a couple miles east of I-75 you can see a definite division line.

Which ones? Note there are a couple of the LP's in there which are using proposed facilities detailed in Application to FCC rather than their current facilities. I noted this in my corrections post in the other thread. - In Dayton, W66AQ is one of those.

As I also mentioned in another post on that thread, WRCX-LP is showing signficantly stronger(Yellowish green) at my location than I'm getting from them(which is generally a bit "snowy"/on the weak side), and WWHO looks perhaps a little on the optimistic side as well(awfully hard to say on that one though, as should be the case we're talking about purple or No shading near my location - Given what I get from them I just expected it to be "no shading" for my exact location instead of purple) ...

Another one I didn't mention in that post as I hadn't looked at it yet that is showing significantly stronger for my location than what I'm getting is WPTO 14 ... It's showing Green, but what I get from them is something just less of Grade B signal - Just a bit "snowy" so to speak when leaves are off trees, worse when leaves are on.

Looking at terrain profiles with other, Topo software, I know the path to WPTO is signficantly obstructed by terrain from my location, and the same is probably true for WRCX-LP's lower antenna height(and the same is true for WWHO as well, although it's harder to say as that one is beyond curvature of earth anyway+my software for the elevation profiles doesn't take curvature of earth into account) ...

Looking at other areas and noticing that indeed for the most part you can see where modeling seems to fit well with the terrain(where there are obstructions the colors change to indicate weaker signal/etc) looks "right", It looks like to me its possible that for some of the terrain near my specific location, it might not quite be accurate enough involving the more terrain obstructed signal paths(such as for WPTO).

What I'm seeing for the Other Stations in the area (Including weaker ones such as WKON, W20CL, W36DG, WAVE) however seem to be much more accurate - astoundingly accurate in some cases, and those are in directions where Terrain issues are generally not as severe as is the case for WPTO especially, although it is certianly not LOS, either. But, it's a bit difficult to say, as I'm using antenna (XG91 for UHF)/preamp which is 35FT above ground, whereas these maps are for "ground level"/etc. and don't take antenna gain/etc. into account .. And then, among other things there are all the nearby trees it doesn't account for either ... So, its possible it could still be showing something a little more optimistic than what is the case at my location at "ground level" with no antenna gain/etc overall ....

So, it's just a WAG(which could certianly be wrong), but I'm thinking at this point some of the terrain at my location may be such that it might need more resolution for the terrain data than is being modeled in this case, especially involving the situation for WPTO or WRCX perhaps.

I asked Andy what he thought about it on the other thread, I'll be quite interested to see his reply.



Not sure if this is what you're talking about, but if you zoom way out you'll see it looks like several "sections" of the data just East of 75 have different coloring/etc, as if this data was based on Aerial photos(or from a sat) which were taken on different days with different weather conditions and Sun angles/etc ....

It does I suppose look "blurrier" in a sense at some "zoom" levels especially where "stuff" is more "brighter"(streets/top of buildings/etc) to the West of that "dividing line" between the sections that's a couple miles east of 75.

You can find that all over Google Earth.

Different images from different times - patched together - different resolution.

The more detailed stuff cost more money as well - so they might not have purchased the higher detail images in those areas.

Or perhaps they are blurring so you wont see the aliens at the AFB In all honesty, there was a controversy several years ago as they have completely taken out the CIA Headquarters in Langley Virginia.

Could be a multitude of reasons.

I know you're joking, but the images that include the air force base are the best quality for the area. It's also east of I75, not west.

For instance, WXIX and WSTR analog are unwatchable but it appears to be a good amount of signal this way. It doesn't matter...just an observation.

Just curious, as I think I remember, more or less where you're located ...

You might want to check out a website/new tool that allows you to punch in your addrress or lat/long coordiates + receive antenna height and do the "radar plot"+chart, which also contains a detailed signal strength readout for a specific location. The terrain detail used is more detailed than that for the coverage maps. See here for info+a link, and the "signal analysis FAQ" on the site for info on how to interpet the results :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10314120

Anyone watch King of Queens last night on WHIO ?? We were getting drastic volume fluctuations with it. I literally had my finger on the volume control going up and down so that I could hear the dialog one minute and not wake the kids the next !

I get it via OTA, through a Dish 622 receiver. No Dolby Digital, just regular audio through the TV.

Just got done watching it via my SA8300HD and I had the exact same problem. This is the second time i've seen this through WHIO-DT a couple of months ago a Rules of Engagement episode had the same problem.

I looked for a King of Queens thread in the "HDTV Programming" area but saw nothing so I suspect it's a WHIO problem, not CBS (???).

I think my wife was watching last night on TW 707. She complained of lack of sound and turned to TW Ch. 12 (WKRC). Sound was fine on ch. 12 (but no HD o TWC-Dayton).