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Dayton / Lima, OH - HDTV - Page 214

post #6391 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

Fall ratings week (can't recall what it's called now).

"Sweeps."

Quote:


Tell the average person to drop cable and use an antenna and see what response you get.

Typically, the answer I've received is that they "need" ESPN or some other cable channel, otherwise they'd be glad to save the money.

- Trip
post #6392 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

Your case is not proven. Unless we know what agreements were made between the cable/satellite companies and stations, we can only speculate.

We DO know that cable companies are paying for OTA station carriage rights. What more proof do you need?

Quote:


A couple scenarios come to mind...
  • After TW announced their plans to broadcast locals from other cities, an extension was granted... Hmmm, who "needs" that more ? TW sure doesn't.

They sure do. If they drop WKEF and WRGT, they will lose subscribers, guaranteed. Also, Time Warner can't legally broadcast locals from other cities, despite them claiming they will, and despite the fact that they might actually try to go through with it.
Quote:


  • A couple of years ago when WDTN (LIN ?) was in dispute with Time Warner, they were able to come to an agreement 1-2 weeks before the Fall ratings week (can't recall what it's called now). As I understand it, this is when the 'audience numbers' are calculated and what stations use for advertising costs. WDTN really couldn't afford to have what, 50% of their viewers MIA.

How loud would the uproar have been from TW customers that couldn't watch the fall finales of their shows, and the highest drawing specials as well as special news reports? They would have upset their customers greatly because they missed things they wanted to watch. The reason they're paying for TV is to watch what they want, right?

Quote:


For the record, I am not a TW customer.

Neither am I. On that we can agree.

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In regards to cablecos carrying local stations, I think it's a "service" they offer to customers.

That's what lifeline is for. That's the public service allowing those who for whatever reason can't receive a reliable OTA signal to receive the local stations.
Quote:


Tell the average person to drop cable and use an antenna and see what response you get.

Often, I get the response Trip mentions. But also there are a lot of people that don't even realize or think of it as an option. I've seen home inspectors tell home buyers "that antenna up there won't work anymore after the digital transition. you'll have to get cable or satellite." That ignorance bothers me a lot. Cable companies spend a lot of marketing money trying to convince people that they are a necessary utility like water, gas, or electricity but the fact is, they aren't. How much money is spent informing the public that OTA is a great option that provides generally more reliable service and as good or better picture and sound? What's wrong with me promoting that?
post #6393 of 6610
I don't have TWC's television package. Have they started broadcasting the Cincinnati locals yet?
post #6394 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

what would happen if the cablecos and satellite providers all dropped the local networks ? How long do you think the locals could survive ?

The locals may flourish since the most popular shows are on free tv. If the scenario above were to happen, pay tv customers would buy an antenna to watch American Idol, etc. and find that they can get 20, 30, 40, 50, or more ota channels. Most folks have no idea how ota has changed but they would find out real soon if the cablecos dropped those networks.

Pay tv needs to pay.
post #6395 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim58hsv View Post

The locals may flourish since the most popular shows are on free tv. If the scenario above were to happen, pay tv customers would buy an antenna to watch American Idol, etc. and find that they can get 20, 30, 40, 50, or more ota channels. Most folks have no idea how ota has changed but they would find out real soon if the cablecos dropped those networks.

Pay tv needs to pay.

I mentioned this over in the Cincy thread recently... as an OTA user I have lost all interest in sports except the NFL. Why? That's the only thing left on the networks. There were only 2 college bowl games listed for me to see and 1 was new Year's Day and the other is Friday night. I see an NBA game on a weekend here and there but when the playoffs hit I'm outta luck. It appears I am screwed with March Madness starting this year also according to a comment mentioned over there. Baseball has been off my radar for years.

Sad really. Just can't justify paying outrageous feees to watch ESPN and 1 or 2 other channels if I got a cable package.

(I do have the very basic Cincy Locals, it costs me $12/month and I need it because I live in a radio wave black hole in Fairfield where I get the Dayton locals ok but only WSTR from Cincy)
post #6396 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim58hsv View Post

The locals may flourish since the most popular shows are on free tv. If the scenario above were to happen, pay tv customers would buy an antenna to watch American Idol, etc. and find that they can get 20, 30, 40, 50, or more ota channels.

I don't believe that... And you have to remember, people who post here are NOT your typical consumer. Yes, we know that locals via antenna are available. We know that the picture quality (with the right antenna setup) is better than anything we can get from cable or satellite.

The average consumer though thinks antennas give you "snow". The average consumer has enough trouble switching inputs from cable/sat to "antenna".

Why, I'll repeat, why, is there such an uproar when cablecos drop local channels ? The average consumer isn't interested in OTA. Look at the "speak up" articles in the Dayton Daily News when they ask (10) people what they'll do if/when TW drops channel "x". The majority of them do not say "I'll put up an antenna". Most say they'll either wait it out and watch other channels. The next largest group says they'll switch (and I say 90% never do!) providers, to "the dish". The smallest number, maybe one or two, say it won't affect them because they use an antenna already.

Now, I'd love to see the numbers, but does anyone know the breakdown between cable, satellite, and OTA ? I saw numbers one time, per DMA, but the reliability or accuracy wasn't clear. A year-by-year breakdown would be nice too.
post #6397 of 6610
Maybe, but tv antenna sales are escalating as pay tv subscribers cut the cord like never before.

The word is getting out about free ota television and for the pay tv industry to drop some of their most popular networks, the ones available for free ota, will ultimately hasten their demise.

At least that's what I think.
post #6398 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim58hsv View Post

Maybe, but tv antenna sales are escalating as pay tv subscribers cut the cord like never before.

The word is getting out about free ota television and for the pay tv industry to drop some of their most popular networks, the ones available for free ota, will ultimately hasten their demise.

At least that's what I think.

I don't believe that. I find most non-technical types (the type that don't hang out here) are generally sheep when it comes to consumer type stuff. I'd give anything to see the cable cartels suffer but it ain't gonna happen.

I do my share however
post #6399 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

I don't believe that... And you have to remember, people who post here are NOT your typical consumer. Yes, we know that locals via antenna are available. We know that the picture quality (with the right antenna setup) is better than anything we can get from cable or satellite.

Yes, WE know, but average consumers do not. So why do you and others jump all over me when I try to point out the OTA option?

Quote:


The average consumer though thinks antennas give you "snow". The average consumer has enough trouble switching inputs from cable/sat to "antenna".

Exactly, and as you well know, antennas give you good if not better picture, and higher reliability. So why when I point out OTA benefits, do you say oh no one is interested in that, it's no good? The reason they are not interested, is because they don't know, and don't understand. It's ignorance.

Quote:


Why, I'll repeat, why, is there such an uproar when cablecos drop local channels ?

Because the consumers want that content!! That's why the cable company needs the OTA station.
Quote:


The average consumer isn't interested in OTA. Look at the "speak up" articles in the Dayton Daily News when they ask (10) people what they'll do if/when TW drops channel "x". The majority of them do not say "I'll put up an antenna". Most say they'll either wait it out and watch other channels. The next largest group says they'll switch (and I say 90% never do!) providers, to "the dish". The smallest number, maybe one or two, say it won't affect them because they use an antenna already.

It's not their (those "average consumers") fault, but it's ignorance. That's why.
post #6400 of 6610
Has WHIO sarted supplying the TVGOS info yet (if so mine is broke....I guess it's broke either way)?
post #6401 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon View Post

Has WHIO sarted supplying the TVGOS info yet (if so mine is broke....I guess it's broke either way)?

I emailed their chief engineer yesterday. Not sure that I'll hear anything back from him though. The only way I can get my devices to start looking for it again is to do a total reset.
post #6402 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim58hsv View Post

The locals may flourish since the most popular shows are on free tv. If the scenario above were to happen, pay tv customers would buy an antenna to watch American Idol, etc. and find that they can get 20, 30, 40, 50, or more ota channels. Most folks have no idea how ota has changed but they would find out real soon if the cablecos dropped those networks.

Pay tv needs to pay.

Do you really think that after putting up an antenna to get 20-50 extra channels that people will drop their "pay tv" service? Those who put up an antenna to get the locals dropped would more than likely keep their "pay tv" service anyway because of the content on those channels (e.g., ESPN, FSN, Discovery Channel, Fox News etc.).

Lets look at the 50 some OTA channels I get:

3 CBS
3 ABC
3 NBC
3 FOX
3 WB (1 in SD)
2 MYTV (1 in SD)
2 Cool TV
1 Retro TV
6 Religous propaganda channels
Universal Sports
WKRP
Retro TV
America One
Jewlery TV shopping channel
At least 3 different weather channels
4 PBS main channels
12 PBS subchannels (2 of which duplicate exactly in SD what is shown in HD)
2 This TV channels

I think thats 52. But first, the 52 is misleading. Unless local news is on (which I don't watch), there is unique content on about half of these channels at any one time with all of the duplicate networks/subchannels. Throw out the religous channels and its less.

I would estimate that less than 10% of our family viewing time is on these OTA stations. Why? First, other than sports and sports related programming (e.g., The Brian Gregory Show on WHIO), I don't find the vast majority of programming compelling other than a couple of sitcoms my wife likes to watch. I like PBS, but watching WPTO and WPTD is a sometimes painful experience with the lack of bandwidth.

There is just too much compelling content on pay tv. Its impossible to follow any sports team on TV other than the local NFL team without pay tv. The Discovery networks put on top notch programming. The movie channels provide uncensored programming without commercial interruption. Suffice to say I have not interest in ever dropping my "pay tv" service even though I get some 50 channels free, over the air.
post #6403 of 6610
Quote:


Lets look at the 50 some OTA channels I get:

3 CBS
3 ABC
3 NBC
3 FOX
3 WB (1 in SD)
2 MYTV (1 in SD)
2 Cool TV
1 Retro TV
6 Religous propaganda channels
Universal Sports
WKRP
Retro TV
America One
Jewlery TV shopping channel
At least 3 different weather channels
4 PBS main channels
12 PBS subchannels (2 of which duplicate exactly in SD what is shown in HD)
2 This TV channels

You get 52 channels from where? I have a total of 45 channels and I am not so far away from you that you will get more channels than me. I'd really like to know what you use for an antenna and how it's mounted as well as the tuner you are using please.
post #6404 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul210 View Post

I emailed their chief engineer yesterday. Not sure that I'll hear anything back from him though. The only way I can get my devices to start looking for it again is to do a total reset.

I've emailed him several times with NO responses, good luck!
post #6405 of 6610
He seems to no longer respond to the general public... Someone get Nitewatchman to contact him!
post #6406 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon View Post

I've emailed him several times with NO responses, good luck!

I emailed Chuck as well yesterday. Glad to hear it's not my Sony DHG DVR acting up. It's been working like a champ for quite a while.
post #6407 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by skylab View Post

Do you really think that after putting up an antenna to get 20-50 extra channels that people will drop their "pay tv" service? Those who put up an antenna to get the locals dropped would more than likely keep their "pay tv" service anyway because of the content on those channels (e.g., ESPN, FSN, Discovery Channel, Fox News etc.).

If they want to pay a $100.00 every month for a handful of channels that they watch and a boatload of other channels that they don't watch, then no. The rest, I believe, would gladly give it up for a decent ota selection once they see what ota is really like nowadays.

.
post #6408 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

He seems to no longer respond to the general public... Someone get Nitewatchman to contact him!

Please help! All we want is information regarding the TVGOS situation.

John
post #6409 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon View Post

Please help! All we want is information regarding the TVGOS situation.

John

I called WHIO-TV today .TVGOS maybe back up by the end of next week.
post #6410 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon View Post

Please help! All we want is information regarding the TVGOS situation.

With the "trouble" they had with their recent move, I'm sure TVGOS fix is at or near the bottom of their list of priorities.
post #6411 of 6610
now shows a duplicate listing of 16-1 thru 16-5, 10 in all. All are functional. I got the same when rescanning on another TV. Any ideas what's happening?
post #6412 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsi87 View Post

now shows a duplicate listing of 16-1 thru 16-5, 10 in all. All are functional. I got the same when rescanning on another TV. Any ideas what's happening?

The second set of 16-1 thru 16-5 is the new translator in Celina. It is on r-f channel 32.
post #6413 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtv insider View Post
The second set of 16-1 thru 16-5 is the new translator in Celina. It is on r-f channel 32.
W63AH, I presume?
post #6414 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoraX695 View Post

W63AH, I presume?

Would it not have been the analog transmitter that was on Channel 17 in Celina ?
post #6415 of 6610
W17AA in Celina has gone silent, according to FCC filings. The former W63AH in Maplewood, now W32DS-D, is supposed to be on the air. I suspect this is the signal you are seeing.

- Trip
post #6416 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

W17AA in Celina has gone silent, according to FCC filings. The former W63AH in Maplewood, now W32DS-D, is supposed to be on the air. I suspect this is the signal you are seeing.

- Trip

According to FCC filings W32DS-D was moved from Maplewood to Celina.
post #6417 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtv insider View Post

According to FCC filings W32DS-D was moved from Maplewood to Celina.

The transmitter appears to be where W17AA has a permit, but the city of license is still Maplewood for some reason. I wonder what they intend to do with W17AA, given that the two signals are now co-located.

- Trip
post #6418 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
The transmitter appears to be where W17AA has a permit, but the city of license is still Maplewood for some reason. I wonder what they intend to do with W17AA, given that the two signals are now co-located.

- Trip
W17AA can only be used has a repeater of WPTD. It's a shame that is the rules. It would be great to use it for a repeater of WPTO in the northern part of viewing of WPTD or WCET.
post #6419 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtv insider View Post

W17AA can only be used has a repeater of WPTD. It's a shame that is the rules. It would be great to use it for a repeater of WPTO in the northern part of viewing of WPTD or WCET.

All they have to do is specify a different input channel with the FCC. It's easy to turn a translator into an LP or change the station it's translating. I've seen it done plenty of times.

- Trip
post #6420 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoraX695 View Post

W63AH, I presume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtv insider View Post

The second set of 16-1 thru 16-5 is the new translator in Celina. It is on r-f channel 32.

Rabbitears and tvfool both show the same compass headings and distance. On rare occasions I can pull Channel 14 (WPTO) from Oxford. I know their programming is different from Channel 16. It would be nice to get that in addition.

Thanks for the reply.
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