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Dayton / Lima, OH - HDTV - Page 219

post #6541 of 6610
Thanks again, Jeff.

Nice explanation - just what I wanted to know.

I've been following the recent discussion on the subject on the DTVPal DVR forum. It is really interesting to watch you, P Smith, keyboard21 et al "zero in" on the technical causes of the timing errors!

Ken
post #6542 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzdvl View Post

Hi, All,

For the last several weeks the clock time on my DTVPal DVR has been consistently 5-7 minutes behind the correct time. This causes the first several minutes of recorded programs to be missed.

I know there have been problems reported in the past in various US regional markets (including the WHIO area ?), but I have never experienced the problem myself until recently.

I can get the DTVPal clock temporarily reset to the correct time by doing a reboot, but by the next morning the clock has drifted and settled back to 5-7 minutes slow.

I believe the problem lies with the time signal sent out by the ROVI/TVGoS encoder at WHIO, but I don't know for sure.

Anyway, I am just wondering if anyone else is presently noticing the time problem, and I would welcome any advice or suggestions.

Thanks!

Ken

Count my Sony DHG-HDD250 in on this one. This issue has been driving me nuts for the past month. I gave in and edited all my scheduled recordings to be off a few minutes but as you've stated, it varies day to day.
post #6543 of 6610
Purely out of curiosity, why don't the stations have an accurate time method ? Someone tell me if this is related or not, but I have an older DirecTV receiver that I use for OTA on occasion. When in the program guide and navigating from channel to channel, the TIME displayed in the guide (not in the guide or grid itself, but in the upper-right corner, if I recall correctly) will change. I presume it gets the "local" time from the PSIP data of the station I'm tuned to at that moment. I can vary +/- 5 minutes among stations.
post #6544 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

Someone tell me if this is related or not

It's not related to WHIO's TVGOS time issue being discussed, that's time data only present in WHIO TVGOS datastreams, only devices which utilize the TVGOS data are effected (such as the OTA DVR's previously mentioned) ...

Quote:


but I have an older DirecTV receiver that I use for OTA on occasion. When in the program guide and navigating from channel to channel, the TIME displayed in the guide (not in the guide or grid itself, but in the upper-right corner, if I recall correctly) will change. I presume it gets the "local" time from the PSIP data of the station I'm tuned to at that moment. I can vary +/- 5 minutes among stations.

Most OTA capable devices use the PSIP data (Including DTC-100 which is not being used with DirecTV if that's what you're using) .....

FCC requires time data transmited in stations PSIP STT ("PSIP clock" lets say) to be within 1 second of GPS time ..... at ALL times ...

In Dayton Market currently (as in right now), WDTN, WPTD, WKEF PSIP clock data are within a second or so of being accurate (checked with WWV+Tsreader) ....

However(again right now), WKOI is off by about 2 Minutes(fast), WHIO is about 90 seconds Slow, WRGT is a little over 2 Minutes slow, WBDT is a little less than 3 Minutes slow ....

Quote:


why don't the stations have an accurate time method ?

Speaking of the PSIP data, Some obviously do, as for why many don't, various reasons, I'd guess

If a lot of people called them about it, I'd guess they'd probably find a way ....
post #6545 of 6610
Regardless want the FCC wants no station will have the correct time. This is due to the data transmission processing time thru each encoder and and even your receiver. The processing times through every encoder is different. The time stamp SST was in sync when it left the stations. There are different delays for every station. Of course this is no excuse if the stations clock is ahead of the correct time.
post #6546 of 6610
^ Issues somewhat along the lines of what you mention involving PSIP STT Time data to an extent which might be difficult to correct by the local stations could, I'd think, potentially account for issues involving a few seconds, not a few minutes ....

Although, such errors probably wouldn't specifically involve the PSIP generator .... What might happen delay wise during Mux'ing (Although, as I understand it, that is actually probably when/where the STT time data is generated in most if not all circumstances...) + any further processing of the TS before transmission is another matter(particularly perhaps if the PSIP STT data or TS isn't generated at local studio or transmitter site), and any delay during 8VSB demod and de-muxing the TS on the receiver end should be minimal in regards to the STT data ... even if it were to be as much as the time/delay involved with the audio/Video decoding, the latter would only be no more than about a second .....

There is an interesting recent discussion (from another area)of some interest here :

http://www.broadcastengineering.info...t=3464&p=22588

Anyway, 11 out of 16 DTV Stations In Cincinnati/N KY/Dayton area show correct time in STT (as received and transport stream analyzed by TSreader /minutes seconds compared with WWV audio) within 1 second, 1 station is within 3 seconds ....

Update: The "11 out of 16" above was based on a check I did about a week or so ago, I checked again around 12 PM (EDT) 4/12 and the situation has changed a bit regarding a few stations ....

FCC Rule on this matter is taken from ATSC's PSIP Standard, it is not unreasonable ... That being said, certianly there are likely understandable circumstances when this particular rule can't easily be met ...

Update: ATSC PSIP Standard (a65 rev. 2009) documents are available here :

http://www.atsc.org/cms/index.php/st...c-a65-standard

Description of STT System_time field (and the 1 second "rule") can be found on page 26, and is quoted below(portions of perhaps most interest in bold) :

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATSC A65 PSIP standard View Post

system_time — A 32-bit unsigned integer quantity representing the current system time as the
number of GPS seconds since 00:00:00 UTC, 6 January 1980. The count of GPS seconds and
leap second count shall be accurate and correct to within plus or minus one second, for a direct
main broadcast signal RF receiving device, as timed at the arrival in the decoder of the
Transport Stream packet carrying the last byte of the CRC.
The STT seconds count should be
set to the next second and sent approximately 2T milliseconds before the seconds count is due
to increment, where T represents the average number of milliseconds between TS packets
identified with the SI base_PID (0x1FFB). If one or more translators and/or repeaters are in the
RF delivery path that introduce processing delays that impact the overall STT timing accuracy,
the STT timing should be adjusted in the translated/repeated signal.

post #6547 of 6610
Anyone else not receiving some HD channels on TWC in the Dayton area?
post #6548 of 6610
Did posts get lost in the switch ? I'm 99.9% certain there were a small number of posts -- activity has really tapered off, no doubt -- during the 2nd half of April and all of May.
post #6549 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

Did posts get lost in the switch ? I'm 99.9% certain there were a small number of posts -- activity has really tapered off, no doubt -- during the 2nd half of April and all of May.

If I could see I might have an answer for you...

This change to a dark skin that cant be removed makes me realize my eyes aren't what they used to be. Speaking of that... is there a way to change to a lighter skin that I'm missing?
post #6550 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubster View Post

If I could see I might have an answer for you...
This change to a dark skin that cant be removed makes me realize my eyes aren't what they used to be. Speaking of that... is there a way to change to a lighter skin that I'm missing?

It took me so long I thought perhaps I'd save someone else plenty of irritation:
  • My Profile
  • Edit Account Details
  • Scroll to bottom
  • Visual Preferences Dropdown List

I literally felt blind with the dark theme, made it an ordeal instead of a simple adjustment.
post #6551 of 6610
I saw other posts mentioning a "dark" theme but mine didn't change to anything like that. White, light blue, light gray are the predominant colors for me.
post #6552 of 6610
2 News at 10 in HD tonight on WBDT ...

It's been several days or so since I've checked WDTN news on WDTN or WBDT, so not sure how long it has been HD ....
post #6553 of 6610
Pretty sure they went live with HD last night.
post #6554 of 6610
We should send a card welcomming them into the 21st century!!! wink.gif
post #6555 of 6610
I believe I heard a promo saying Saturday night would be the first broadcast in HD. Kinda odd being on a weekend, but then again, fewer viewers in case there are glitches to work out. Gives them a few tries before Monday when viewer numbers likely jump up.
post #6556 of 6610
Anybody have the digital frequencies for NFL Network and NFL Redzone in HD? I run everything through my WMC machine and Zap2It still has not updated their channel listings with the frequency therefore I have to use a workaround to get the channels added for viewing.

Thanks!
post #6557 of 6610
No need to double post. Your question was answered in the Cincinnati thread.wink.gif
post #6558 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

No need to double post. Your question was answered in the Cincinnati thread.wink.gif

I posted because someone may have the answer here who isn't subscribed to the Cincinnati thread. Your answer was of zero help, btw. I'm quite familiar with the setup and just need to know the frequency of which I need to tune in order to add it to my Windows Media Center guide listings through a workaround.
post #6559 of 6610
FYI - For anyone else having this issue. These channels both appear to be SDV channels and you can just tune by the digital channel number (1346/1347) thanks to your tuning adapter. Have both added to my system now. Use this tool in order to add it to your guide information manually: http://1geek1tool.com/guidetool
post #6560 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

No need to double post. Your question was answered in the Cincinnati thread.wink.gif
What Cincinnati thread ?
post #6561 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

What Cincinnati thread ?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/306883/cincinnati-oh-hdtv
post #6562 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

What Cincinnati thread ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/306883/cincinnati-oh-hdtv
I guess you didn't get the hint.... I live in Dayton as do many others who follow the "Dayton" thread. Cincinnati HD is of no interest or value to me and many others who live in this region. I can't pick up Cincy locals at all and am sure that's the case for many...
post #6563 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by hall View Post

I guess you didn't get the hint.... I live in Dayton as do many others who follow the "Dayton" thread. Cincinnati HD is of no interest or value to me and many others who live in this region. I can't pick up Cincy locals at all and am sure that's the case for many...

Many who live in Middletown, Hamilton, and the like do follow both threads.
post #6564 of 6610
What's up with all the sniping? I thought we were here to help each other.
post #6565 of 6610
Anyone know what is up with WHIO Channel 7 in Dayton, Ohio?

I have been getting no TVGOS data for over a week, and no PSIP either (all other local stations are populating the guide normally).

Thanks!

Ken
post #6566 of 6610
WHIO's signal went belly-up briefly about a week ago. Ever since there's been no PSIP.
post #6567 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzdvl View Post

Anyone know what is up with WHIO Channel 7 in Dayton, Ohio?
I have been getting no TVGOS data for over a week, and no PSIP either (all other local stations are populating the guide normally).
Thanks!
Ken

Noticed tonight that TVGOS is gone. Does anyone know who we can contact to let them know about this issue?

Thanks,
John
post #6568 of 6610
WHIO's PSIP is back as of this evening (Wednesday, Nov. 7).

Still no TVGOS, though.

I've done a factory reset this evening - maybe it will "appear" overnight?
post #6569 of 6610
No Luck - WHIO's PSIP is working again, but so far no TVGOS.
post #6570 of 6610
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzdvl View Post

No Luck - WHIO's PSIP is working again, but so far no TVGOS.

I just checked and your correct no TvGos. Is there someone we can alert? I'm sure they must know it is out.................
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