AESpeakers TD Series group buy!!! - Page 19

My TD15Ms arrived yesterday. I haven't connected them to anything, but I unpacked one and it looks great. I am still waiting for the screw-on phase plugs, but AE explained the situation very clearly and they should arrive in the not-too-distant future.

I'm impressed with the smart box / packing materials design, too. :-)

-Max

Congrats! Have you settled on a design yet?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Is there an eta on the 4ohm version of the TD 15M, I read the 8ohms have shipped. Still waiting.

u can switch to 8 ohm if u dont want to wait.

I think only the first 30 or so has been shipped. I am still waiting for my TD15M 8ohm.

For anybody who missed out on the group buy but needs a TD10M or TD6H, I'll have a pair of each available. PM me if interested.

PM sent.

I've got SEOS-15 waveguides (fg) and DNA-360 compression drivers to pair with them. I might start with an active design to play and learn, but will likely end up with passive crossovers for simplicity.

I want to make wood slab towers for L&R, but I'm still investigating what it takes to do that properly. I'm thinking of black woofer boxes with a full-height slab plank as the baffle. The center will be in the unused fireplace, so just black plywood.

Maxcooper,

What kind of active xover do you have? I've got a Minidsp setup for those drivers if you need, I can supply a file if you need it.

I have a minidsp. I would be most grateful if you can share your file with me. Thanks!

-Max

AE thread being censored.

I was checking for any progress over on the Acoustic Elegance "Official TD Woofer Group Buy" thread early this morning. There have been posts which make specific requests for the expected completion of drivers. There have been infrequent and vague responses to our requests.

This has led some to speculation based upon the reports of completion already accomplished.

I saw the most recent post there which did a reasonable job of predicting that it could be another 5-6 months before the remaining ~180 woofers are complete. Along with that, the post alerted to the fact that there is a response from John on the site within the last week which maintains new orders will be filled in 4-6 weeks after payment.
I responded to the author of the post with my appreciation for his expressing things I feel are true. I then went back the the thread and found the post I had just commented on, along with a post from myself, had been deleted. Looking further back in that thread, there have been other posts just deleted early this morning.


It would be interesting to hear from any who have ordered from AE after the GB was closed and what assurances or experiences they have had.
Edited by bg40403 - 9/11/12 at 9:15am

For those on the group buy list waiting for their woofers to be built and shipped, John has provided an update on the status of the second batch of woofers: http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2808&start=240#p14873

For those keeping track, a timeline of builds to date:

The original post in the group buy thread (http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2808#p13167) had the group buy closing on October 22, 2011. Parts from China were to be delivered in November and all group buy woofers would "tentatively" be built by mid December, 2011. We all know the parts got delayed in production in China and John is going it alone as opposed to having someone helping him out to machine and build woofers like he suggests in that first post. But it's prudent to note that he felt he could build all woofers in a few weeks with a little help. He may not have expected nearly 250 group buy woofer orders when developing that estimate, though.

6/20/12 - Steel arrives from China (http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2808&start=195#p14544)

7/2/12 - Machining of parts is underway and John confirms the steel parts look good (http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2808&start=210#p14601)

8/15/12 - The first batch of woofers is built and ships out to customers (minus phase plugs). This first batch is 58 TD15M-8 and mention is made of some TD6M-8s shipping later in the week, but no hard numbers. (http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2808&start=225#p14743) So from parts arriving to the first batch of woofers going out the door is 56 days. 58+ woofers on the group buy are in this batch.

9/10/12 - the second batch of steel is supposed to be back from the plating facility later this week. (http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2808&start=240#p14873) John confirms ~250 woofers ordered on the group buy and that this next batch of woofers to be built would have 20-30 woofers for group buy customers on it. Figure parts arriving at the end of the week (9/14) as he suggests and then several days to build out woofers, box, and ship... so likely 9/16 - 9/20 before next round goes out the door.


So to recap, the first batch of 58+ woofers took 56 days. The second batch of woofers will be produced quicker, likely 30-35 days turnaround.... but it only has 20-30 woofers on it. I've been told I shouldn't speculate. So I won't speculate or assume why there are only 20-30 woofers on this next batch or assume why this may or may not represent true output of product from the business or speculate if all future batches of woofers will take about 30 days to turn and if those batches will have the same quantity of group buy woofers in them.

People can do their own math and draw their own conclusions. But the reality is this: In three months since the steel has arrived, ~90 group buy woofers will have gone out the door once this latest batch is completed next week.... There were close to 250 woofers on the group buy according to John's own post. That leaves at least something in the neighborhood of ~150+ left to be built. In the absence of firm assurances from AE that they are going to dramatically increase production volumes of group buy woofers on future batches, it certainly seems likely the rest of the group buy woofers won't be completed in the next batch after this based on the size of the batches so far...... or the one after that... and so on.... at least those are my own estimates based on the performance and timeliness of deliveries so far.

John is welcome to help fill in the details that are missing and answer when all the group buy woofers should be completed. He knows all the details. There are no delays related to waiting on parts. At this point, its just manufacturing woofers, i.e. his business. He's the manufacturer and should know his manufacturing capacity. He's the only employee so he should know his output capability. The question has been asked by myself and others and not answered to this point. That's what started the speculation in the first place.... trying to come up with our own estimates based on what has transpired so far.

Just an FYI for folks trying to plan for when they need to have their enclosures built to house the woofers when they arrive... or are waiting for the drivers to arrive to measure and try to determine boxes that will be built to house them... the current

It is important to note that this is my speculation based on what details have been provided. I don't know how many units John is actually turning out other than what he has posted in public domain. I don't know how many OEM orders he has in backlog. I don't know how many regular orders he has from customers that came in after the group buy closed that he hasn't yet filled with locally sourced steel. I'm just one guy trying to figure out when to expect woofers to arrive and thought others might appreciate my own thought process for how I'm estimating when to expect them. I can't turn off the project manager in my head, especially these days. With a 4 month old, I find that I actually have to plan my life like a project even more than I ever did before. While we listen to music nearly 16 hours a day in my house, it's mostly background now and dedicated listening time and time to work on DIY audio projects is extremely limited. I have to plan it down to the minute practically to not get the stink eye from the better half and to work around family time with a little boy that is awake 18+ hours a day. I'm chomping at the bit to put together a couple of the speaker designs that will use these AE woofers to see if I like them or not, and so I'm especially keen to figure out when the woofers will ship to me. I'm not trying to cause any undue hardship on John. I'm trying to be realistic in my estimates based on the information that has been provided and figure out for myself when to expect things since John hasn't explicitly stated these details. I'm posting it in the public domain since I thought others either are already doing their own calculations or would appreciate the attempt to put the details that are published into some kind of sense of what to expect going forward.
Edited by hometheaterdoc - 9/11/12 at 7:29pm

If John was smart, he'd take that money from the group buy and build woofers for his OEM customers. The group guys are a one-shot deal, they can be shoved to the side, but the OEM customers need product.

HTdoc',

While I understand your drive to plan/extrapolate out future deliveries. The core fault in your hypothesizing was in accounting for the time to ramp up once steel first arrived vs. continued delivery. A shop more readily able to turn around the volume of plating was found which was also closer to AE. There is some contract help when available for the machining and some non-precision assembly steps. Given the unfortunately long time from order to delivery of the first group buy woofers, there's no way John could survive long enough to deliver the woofers if he stopped accepting all other orders at full price and from OEM's he has relationships with. With steel now starting to flow through each process, the gap between builds will continue to reduce.

Being the largest of his OEM customers, I can confirm the significant OEM customers John has all use different steel than the production TD drivers. Yes, those OEM orders (often pre-paid in full up front) will be worked into the schedule between group buy and other work, but they aren't going to eat through the steel received for the group buy. A good % of the drivers have been delivered, and I'd be surprised if all of the drivers took more than 3 more months of time to deliver, and likely less. I do know there was steel coming in from plating tomorrow for both some of my own drivers and those for the group buy. Until another batch or two run through it would be rather premature to guess at complete delivery and setting guys up for disappointment. Things are moving in the right direction, drivers are getting out the door, and the best thing John can do at this point is keep updating the current status, as we've seen that past guesstimates have not proven helpful, as wishful and hopeful as they might have been. Hopefully we'll see more positive reports by the end of next week.

Bg40403

My Name is Jason Davies, I am the president of TechRx Inc. in Green Bay, WI. While I appreciate your genuine concern regarding Acoustic Elegance, LLC, I am morose regarding your comments on the forum. The issue is your statements are bordering on intentional interference with business to Acoustic Elegance and perhaps slander.

John is a very enterprising bright individual who works diligently to ensure every single person who purchase product from him is highly satisfied with product. The issue is that John is one person, and despite a voluminous amount of planning, forecasting, management, etc. there are human factors involved. Obviously, John is making it a priority to build products and not taking time to write responses to the unpleasant diatribes people are posting on his forum.

Since my office is near Acoustic Elegance I can say for certain, John works very late hours. What I would also add is that while you are one individual who has questions and concerns, if every member of the 250+ group buy were to post similar follow up to John (at an average of 10 minutes per email.) IT WOULD equate to 41 hours a week of email. Not to mention the general ability to run a business and this would be more than any human could consider reasonable.
I have full faith you will receive your product now that John has worked through the details necessary to ensure other vendors are not messing up product. Dozens of hours go into every little part, piece, and component. In manufacturing, these problems DO happen and there are delays. John makes the finest product that is built in America. I should add while people appear to be unfairly picking on him. John is producing an AMERICAN made product, in one of the most difficult times to be a manufacture in the history of the world.
I personally walked through Acoustic Elegance myself and as much as my new words can assure you there is significant progress. While John does not have the time (obviously) to post hundreds of updates each week there is progress going on. The other part of it is when individuals commence defamatory words on John’s forum – I think it would be only correct to remove them. It is harmful and it is an attempt an intentional interference.
By supporting John you are supporting what America stands for. Product will come and Acoustic Elegance stands proud and true at 1825 Mills St. I certainly hope you would consider revising what you state and encourage others to support John and his heroic efforts. If any other person would be even willing to go into business and build a product such as his it would be one thing, but John is a one of a kind individual. Support him and don’t knock. While I personally cannot assure you that feedback will come daily – trust that he is working hard, and I will vouch for that. In conclusion, while there will be skeptics about this post, I would not go through the trouble mentioning my company, name, nor writing a multi-page letter to defend someone if I knew they were not the real deal.

I would recommend anyone who is considering buying from Acoustic Elegance go ahead and do so and realize that the best things in life require time.


Very Best Regards. Jason.

Jason,

I know every one of those who are participating in this Group Buy want Acoustic Elegance to succeed and prosper. However, there are things over which we have no control. Many reasonable questions have been asked about progress made with no response. We have not been told enough about what or when something WILL happen.

What is the schedule for delivery of all of the remaining GB woofers? Some of us didn't order 15" or 6" drivers. No mention has been made for us.

I stand by my most recent post to this thread. I e-mailed stryke immediately upon my realization that posts to the GB thread @ AE had been deleted, with no response. I consulted with at least one other contributor who had a post deleted before posting here. Another interested party has confirmed the deletion he witnessed with his post in another location.

Evidence of a forward looking schedule is lacking. Any speculation has been invited by the lack of response to our requests.

Can you help with that?
Edited by bg40403 - 9/17/12 at 11:20am

Is that supposed to mean something to us?

I thought bg's post was impressively restrained considering his experience.

You can't expect people not to be unhappy about the delays and broken promises, whether John is responsible or not.

I am being patient here, as I know i will get my drivers eventually.

But it is ridiculous to assume most have the patience that I do. It was originally suggested we'd have our drivers by December 2011 and at this point we will be very happy to have them by December 21st 2012.

I think others have a right to voice their thoughts, though I personally will calmly and silently wait.

That said, speculation should be left off the AE website because it really isn't factual information. Even as an extrapolation, it's best done here at AVS or Diyaudio. John's decision to remove those posts I think is sensible and justified.
Edited by Eternal Velocity - 9/17/12 at 1:36pm

Here's a snippet from Mr. Davies' website:

"TechRx, Inc.
Did you know TechRx Inc. can fix your computer in hours? Why wait weeks for the Geeks? Obviously, they work on their dance moves instead of your problem."

Now, how do you think your customers would feel if they were quoted hours, not weeks, and still hadn't gotten their computer fixed in months after paying 50% up front?

Probably wouldn't be dancing.

In all fairness, you might not realize that it's been 11 months today since the group buy orders went in.

Patience. Got it.

Some good news. Perhaps we can expect TD12Ms sometimes next month.





Motors are assembled for the next TD woofers. Motors for the TD6's are all built, magnetized, and the frames and terminals are attached. I expect to get through the 30+ TD6's on the list this week and get those shipped. Phase plugs for those are currently out to be anodized and should be back any day. I will then start on TD12M's and TD10M's next.

John
*******************************************************************************
Acoustic Elegance/AE Speakers
1825 Mills St
Green Bay, WI 54302
phone: (920) 469-9198

I guess that would be for those who pre-ordered; John would fill all of those before they're available for new buyers.

A question for those who have received their woofers: When were you billed for the balance? I want to make sure my order is progressing as it should. I've only paid my 50% up front so far.

When your speakers are ready to ship, you will receive a final invoice from John.

Thanks!

New customers are being told they will get their drivers 4-6 weeks after payment.

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3048

A new customer who paid on July 3 was told they would get their order in 4 weeks. As it turned out, he was to get his tracking number for the order on Sept. 17.

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3018

I am patiently waiting for my GB woofers which I have heard nothing about since ordering. I knew this would take forever going in. However hearing that people who are not a large OEM are getting woofers that were ordered way later is really irritating. Im sure it has something to do with parts and availability of the particular woofer he ordered but still.

Same here. I too am patiently waiting.

But someone ordering a year later and get their woofers delivered before me; It just don't sit too well.

I don't know, that guy probably ordered something completely different from the TD GB woofers like 12" dipole woofers or something.

Its just been SOOOO long now. I also have a feeling that John is probably working on the woofers in batches of each model starting with the most numerous quantities first. It would be quicker and easier to get them done that way. Not to mention easier to keep track of what is done. I'm probably going to be at the very back of the line because I ordered all of my woofers at 4ohm with the Apollo motor.

After having been through a year of ordering, getting wrong parts constructed drivers, sending back, waiting, etc for a year or longer, then to have thought it was all sorted out, only to be hit with e-mails from angry guys I highly recommended AE to who never got their stuff after longer than a year...

I can't believe there are still people defending this guy's insane business model.

Just wait. That's the only choice you have if you ordered anything from AE. Pretend you never ordered anything and if and when the stuff shows up, it will be like an unexpected holiday.

After a year, the whole "bigger name on the other line..." thing or the repeated "he's only one guy..." is like drinking battery acid.

That's pretty much how I'm looking at it.