OWNERS Thread for the Panasonic PT-AE7000U 3D Projector - Page 46

Question about the 7000 lens memory, and being told what I wanted wasn't possible with the 4000.

I have a height limited front wall. I've built a custom screen to show 2.4 movies at the best size possible and I would align the 2.4 movies to the width of my custom screen, but the top most edge. So I would just have a gray bar on the bottom, and the top bar would be off the top of the screen. Now for 16x9, I would want lens memory to zoom so that my 16x9 now fills the full height of the screen. So basically the center of my 16x9 is slightly below my 2.4. This way I can still display the best size screen for either mode. I will be mounting the projector with the lens just beneath the top most edge of the screen.

Without lens shift, will the 7000 handle this? I'm on the waiting list for an RS45 but really don't care which one I get, but should the RS45 shipments drag out, get delayed or some special winter 7000 deal pops up, I want to be ready and know that a 7000 is doable.

I'll just have to figure out how to deal with the off center lens.

Also, anybody getting Uncharted 3? Let me know if it's worth it to play in 3D.

Can't comment on the lens stuff as I have a 16:9 screen and do not play around with those settings other than initial config.

But I can tell you Uncharted is the second best looking games in 3d I have played yet (super stardust being the best by far)

There is actually a lot of added depth of field, and feels very movie like for lack of a better term.

Very impressed.

Thus far on the gaming side I am a little disappointed, Resistance 3, Killzone and Batman have all been let downs in terms of 3d. I find the quality and brightness suffer WAY to much in those titles.

Batman was damn near unplayable in dark scenes. Res 3 and KZ3 were both visually underwhelming in 3d, you could see jagged edges everywhere, not good.

That being said aiming down a scope in 3d is pretty damn cool. Give you a real sense of depth, but the trade off is simply not worth it.

I don't think so because we never got enough info from TKNice, specifically where the center of his lense is in relation to the scree. For all we know it is 2 feet above the screen.

So I can understand this... "the lens at the top of the screen" refers to the 16:9 image at the 16:9 setting or the 16:9 image when the lens is zoomed at 2.35:1?

Neither. The lense on the projector can't phisically be any higher then the top of the scree. So if the top of the screen is 6' off the floor the center of the lense can't be any higher then 6' off the floor. This is if you want to use the 16:9 to 2.40 zoom. This is the way the 4000 was any way, their is some info that maybe the 7000 can be slightly higher then the top of the screen.

The physical center of the lens must be no higher than the physical top of the screen in order to be able to use lens memory to switch back and forth between 16:9 and 2.35:1 content without any manual tweaking. (This is assuming a ceiling mount -- the same applies in reverse regarding the bottom of the screen if the pj is table mounted low.)

For the AE4000, this restriction was hard and fast. For the 7000 there is a bit more leeway and I am told that the lens can be a little higher (a few inches?) than the top of the screen. I have not tested this personally, as mine is a few inches below the top of my screen and CIH works great.

Could you explain what you mean here?

I can kind of tell 1) you are trying to project both a scope and 16:9 image on a 2.40:1 screen, 2) your projector lens is right below the top edge of your screen, 3) you intend to zoom to switch aspect ratio. Are three points correct?


I figure you meant lens memory here, correct? You will have to use vertical lens shift if you are mounting your projector higher than the dead center of your screen.

Just to clarify: you need to use the V-AREA POSITION setting in the Lens Control menu. Do not use the V-POSITION setting in the Position menu.

This just happened to me last night as well while I was playing Uncharted 3 in 3D. I had been playing Batman in 3D for a few weeks previous to this and never had this happen. Power cycling the projector fixed it so not a huge deal, but kind of a pain since you have to wait for the projector to go through its standby mode before it turns the lamp back on.

Uncharted 3 is incredible by the way.

But it still does not answer the question (not that I can see it) if that is on the 16:9 pre-zoom or 16:9 after zoom.

Example:

A CIH of 49" height image equals to 100" for 16:9 and 125" for 2.35:1. if the bottom of that screen sits at 24" then the top of the screen is at 73".

But at the 125" scope zoomed setting the actual 16:9 image size is 132" with a total image height of 65"...so keeping the same bottom height of the screen at 24" the top of that 16:9 is now at 89".

So do we measure the "top of screen" at the 73" or the 89"? This makes a huge difference for some people.

Good to know. Thanks. That would explain why I've seen people asking if the 7000 has more lens shift range, etc.

On the other hand, I have definitely seen people with the 4000 got away with a couple of inches higher. It was just not talked about often. So I wonder if this is the case: When people noticed the 7000 model allowing some leeway, they believe this is something that came with the new model. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter.


Hi, JamesN: I believe you upgraded from 4000. Where are the biggest improvements?

Thanks.

Hi, James: I was talking about neither settings. I was referring to the dial (on the 4000) and the stick (on the 7000) to adjust lens shift before reaching to any of the stuff on the electronic menu.

If I understand you correctly ( and I'm not sure I do...sorry, it may just be me) it is on the 16:9 "pre-zoomed" image, which should take up the full height of the physical 2.35:1 screen but not the full width.

After zooming, the projected image should take the full width of the 2.35:1 screen, but the height of the projected image will spill off the top and bottom of the physical screen (but this spill should be the black letterboxed areas of the scope image.)

Again, sorry if I'm not fully understanding the question.

The 73".

As JamesN highlighted the keyword "physical", that's where your real movie images (excluding the top letter box in scope mode) land.

Thanks.

Gotcha.

It doesn't help that Panasonic uses similar names for all these parameters:

• Lens Shift = physical (joystick control)
• V-AREA POSITION = electronic image shift; can be saved locally with other Lens Memory settings; useful for CIH
• V-POSITION = electronic image shift; global setting; not useful for much of anything

Pros

• 3-D
• Lens memory changes much faster (seems like 2x).
• Focus is more granular.
• The 7000 is really bright. Most folks love this. I'm still trying to get used to it and have even contemplated moving from 1.4 to 1.0 gain screen. Then again, I have a pretty short throw.

Cons

• Offset lens.
• Fan noise > 4000.

I am not going for a CIH setup. I'm shooting for a 120 2.4 screen in my room based on my first row seating distance. But then that was only like a 95" 16x9 screen and I really also wanted a 110 or maybe even 120 16x9 screen. So I'm building a screen that can display both those sizes for those ratios. The 16x9 is going to use the full height and it will be centered horz. The 2.4 will use the full width, but I didn't want it centered vertically since my screen is low on the front wall (attic truss roof and the roof slopes down on the front wall) and I wanted to display the 2.4 to the top edge of the screen. The top edge of the screen in both modes would be the same.

Yup, that is what I was looking for.

Thanks guys.

But now that brings a huge problem for me... my mounting spot is way too high for my desired screen position. RATS!!!

I completely agree. They confused the heck of me when I was trying to set up my 4K. I never figured out what V-Position does or is supposed to do.

Thanks.

Thanks, man. This projector is becoming really tempting to me. Would love to have faster lens memory loading, finer focus, and mostly the extra brightness. As I mentioend earlier, I may need to replace the lamp on my 4000 soon.

I think I can live with or get around those minor cons.

Thanks again.

The way I understand it with cih, both ratios will have the exact same height, both the same distance from the top and the bottom.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here.

In CIH, the physical screen is always the same height.

If ones uses an anamorphic lens for CIH, then the projected image changes width, but not height when displaying "scope" content. Scope images must first be scaled (stretched vertically) to eliminate the black bars, and then stretched horizontally by the lens.

If one uses the zoom method for CIH, then the projected image changes in both width and height when displaying "scope" content. The difference is, there is no scaling/stretching. The entire image is zoomed so that it fills the screen horizontally, and the black bars simply spill off the top and bottom of the screen and are (hopefully) invisible (or at the very least, not distracting).

Wow, glad I tried to clarify. So you are trying to achieve a wider scope image and a taller 16:9 image, with them sharing the screen top edge. It's bascially a Constant Image Area setup. I used the 4000 model to implement the same concept in my HT area, except that I use two screens and they are roughly aligned at the center. My use of two screens vs. your plan of using just one makes absolutely no difference. And since you are mounting the projector within the top edge of your screen, both the 4000 and 7000 can defnitely handle this with no problem.

However, may I ask why you don't want to also vertically center the scope picture? Are you trying to have sharp edges on 3 sides, instead of 2, for a scope move? The reason I'm asking is so you are aware that aligning them at the center will allow you to mount the projector very high above the screen top, if that's desirable for you.

What's the aspect ratio of you custom built screen? Slightly over 2.0?


Thanks.

Mudder,

That's what I was thinking too. We need some nice owner to test this for us.

My current project is a AX100 and it's lens is maybe an 1" to 2" above the top of my screen. I currently use an anamorphic lens and love scope. I just don't love the manual change of the lens from pass through to stretch. It's not a big deal for me, but the rest of the family can't handle it.

I guess we'll see sooner or later.

I have two rows of seating. I'm also height limited at the front and back due to how the roof slopes down because of the trusses. The front and rear walls are only about 6' tall, then they slope up 12"run/6" rise towards the center that is 8' tall.

I was actually going to mount my screen out 1' so that I could get it another 6" higher. I wanted the scope mode to be as high as possible so that people in the 2nd row can see the full screen. For 16x9, I would probably have two presets, a smaller16x9 that's higher for when I do have guests in the 2nd row and then a larger 16x9 one just for us for more normal use when nobody is in the 2nd row.

I thought that since the panny's don't have motorized lens shift, you could not mount the projector outside the vertical bounds of the screen if you want to use lens memory.

I can mount within the bounds but then what feature am I using to shift the scope image up within that area that gets memorized?

I think my screen is around 2.2

The feature you want is called V-AREA POSITION in the Lens Control menus.

From what you described, you should be easily able to switch back and forth between 16:9 and scope content. Your challenge is going to be switching between two different 16:9 settings. The V-AREA POSITION control electronically shifts the image up or down on the panel. The actual projected image area doesn't change, just the position of the image within that projected area. For scope content this works fine, since you are just shifting the black letterbox bars out of view. But for 16:9 content, there is no vertical headroom, so shifting will cause critical image information to shift out of view.

Your only option for two different 16:9 positions would be the manual lens shift control (joystick) and this is not something you want to interact with often. It's very temperamental.

Edit: There is one other possibility that might work. In the Position menu, there is an Aspect Ratio option called S16:9 that shrinks down the image area somewhat. It's designed for displaying a 16:9 image on a 4:3 tv. However, you might be able to use this in combination with V-AREA POSITION to shrink down 16:9 content and then shift it up to the top of your screen. I haven't tried this personally, so don't know whether it would work. I think it will depend on how much letterbox area S16:9 adds to the image.

Ouch, I see your point. I can't have two different 16x9s with a different vertical position. At best, I would have my full size 16x9, and I could have a smaller one, but it will need to be centered within the primary one. And as long as the top/bottom of my scope image is within the vertical range of my largest 16x9, then I can place the scope vertically anywhere within that using the V-AREA POSITION.

When I had my AE3000 I actually used the V-Position function to cheat a little with the screen height: When you use V-Position on a 16:9 image it actually crops from either the top or the bottom of the picture, so it allowed me to trim my image to fit (I have such a long throw that the image wouldn't zoom small enough to fit 16:9 height onto my screen).

With the later AE4000 and now AE7000 I don't think this has much use as IIRC they both have a masking feature which the AE3000 didn't have. So I agree it seems of limited use thesedays.


The purpose of the S16:9 isn't so much to allow a 16:9 image on a 4:3 TV as it wouldn't be much use on a 16:9 projector. What it's for is to allow you to change from a pre zoomed 2.35:1 image to a CIH 16:9 image without having to rezoom or use the lens memory. This is what is usually called the 'shrink' method: The 2.35:1 stuff is 1:1 pixel mapped, but the 16:9 stuff (trailers and menus prior to a 2.35:1 film for example) is shown at a lower resolution (black bars on all four sides of the image if you could see this on a 16:9 screen).

It's a quicker way of changing AR without rezooming, but the AE3000 didn't allow a direct button access to the S16:9 and then 16:9 which kind of defeats the point of it. I used this technique when I first sold my AE3000 as my HD350 doesn't have lens memory (using an external VP to do the S16:9 bit) and it works really well as it's instant and looks good enough for trailers, etc even at approx 1400x 810 resolution. It kept me going until I found a good used lens.

No, it's a completely fair question.

I started out zooming (completely manual) and have been using a lens now for about two years. It's been great although I still have to make a slight lens shift adjustment and change the focus every time I switch ARs.

My thought was that if the AE7000 can retain a reasonable brightness and doesn't have much of a screen door effect because of it's smooth screen tech, that the benefits of lens memory may outweight the downsides of zooming. I also thought it may be easier for my family and others to hit a button to do this instead of everything I do for the lens. As it turns out, my projector is mounted very close to the ceiling and so full zooming using lens memory is not possible (or at least because I don't want to lower the projector).

The great news is that now the lens memory makes those small focus and shifting adjustments for me and all someone has to do is slide the lens in place and hit a button for the right aspect ratio. It's great!

btw, I'm loving this projector so far!! The 2D image exceeded my expectations! Also, I haven't seen 3D yet, but the thing I'm most suprised about / in love with / not sure about / can't stop messing with is the frame creation feature. I've never seen anything like it. Although I wouldn't use it for movies, games and 3D are bound to benefit from this. I watched Transformers Dark Side last night and I kept turning it on and off and was amazed at how smooth and clear the normal jumbled mass of metal most of the transformer fights usually are. It really is like watching through a window or maybe some kind of HD workprint.

-TK

I meant to type "...on a 4:3 screen" (not tv)

...which is what the manual says its intended use is.