OWNERS Thread for the Panasonic PT-AE7000U 3D Projector - Page 65

pop out has nothing to do with the PJ. It has to do how the film was meant to look

Can anyone comment on input lag for gaming on the Panasonic. I was all set to pick up the Epson 5010, and I hearing some issues with lag may be a problem. So I am looking at the Panasonic right now. Anyone use game mode, does it make a difference?

I haven't had any issues with lag on my xbox. Been playing MW3 with no issues. I haven't tried game mode because I do not like the over saturated picture.

thanks for that, my calculations had bought me to some where between that range.

What are you using for the 3D Blu-ray player?

wgf,

Can you share those calculations. I will also be using a 2:35 screen...

I received my 7000 yesterday. It's a nice improvement over my AX100U. I watched a little bit of Avatar 2D and Cars 2 and Pirates of the Caribbean in 3D. Using Epson 3D glasses since that was all that was available from VA until after the New Year. I asked the sales person how the Epson glasses compared to the Panasonic glasses. She had to talk to their senior tech., because she hadn't used both herself. The tech told her that there is a tint difference to the lenses otherwise they are the same functionally. He also said that the Panasonic glasses they will be receiving in January will be a newer model than what they had currently been shipping. Since they had currently been shipping 3rd generation glasses, it sounds like a 4th generation will be coming in January. Hopefully early next year I will be able to get a real screen and stop projecting on the wall. I'm trying to decide now if I want to go with a 2.35 screen or a 16:9 screen. I mostly use my projector for movie watching, so need to see what format the majority of my movies are in. I have an Elite Screens Spectrum Electric Budget Projection Screen, 16:9 Aspect Ratio-125in. (Max White) stored at my house in Michigan, so I am leaning toward a fixed frame approx 130" 2.35 screen to mount on the wall behind the electric drop down screen when I get moved up there. In the mean time I'll use the fixed frame screen here in Texas.

PS3 and also tried Popcorn hour with Half SBS's. DO the Half SBS files diminish the 3D at all?

But I bought Drive Angry and Under the Sea and played them on my PS3. Under the Sea has the one scene where the fish comes out at you, that looked pretty good. But other than that I haven't seen much pop out. People are always saying Drive Angry has a ton of pop out.

As dave1969 pointed out earlier, the projector doesn't control the "pop out". This is controlled by the differences in the 2 images projected, which in turn is controlled by the who made the 3D movie. You should see identical pop out on different types of projectors, e.g. LCD vs DLP, if they project onto the same screen and you're seated in the same location.

As far as ghosting...
The reason why I ask what you're using for the player is because I'm wondering if there's driver issues with equipment that doesn't use dedicated hardware rendering. The PS3 requires software drives and I think Popcorn hour does too. A stand alone 3D Blu-ray player would have dedicated hardware.

I've seen a lot of driver issues with playback on HTPCs even when doing 2D. A perfect example is if the source is interlaced and the playback shows tearing. This is not a fault of the source material being interlaced but rather the driver not working correctly. Before we had digital TV everything was analog interlaced but you NEVER saw tearing. Why? Because everything used dedicated hardware to render images. Another example is when you see frame skipping because the driver can't render fast enough so now and then it has to toss a frame. Again the issue isn't the source material but rather the software driver.

Now that we have 3D source material some of these drivers are getting even more overloaded because they have twice the images to process. Any form of frame skipping on a 3D driver can result in massive ghosting artifacts, similar to the way interlaced contend shows as tearing with poor drivers.

I don't have a PS3 or Popcorn hour so I can't test them to compare with my Panasonic 3D player. Do you have a friend that has a dedicated 3D Blu-ray player that you could borrow for one evening to see if there's a difference? Or perhaps you could buy one from a local Best Buy that comes with a guarantee so you could bring it back after you do a test.

It would be nice to pin down the cause of your ghosting. I don't think it's because your more sensitive than other people. I've had several people view mine and there was no ghosting, unless were looking very hard for it. I have Monsters vs Aliens and the classic place where you see ghosting is in the telephone lines - thin black lines on a white background. Yes you can see some ghosting but it's so little you have to be looking for it. It's easier to see it if you pause playback, but during normal viewing it's not distracting enough to even notice it's presence.

It sounds like you really do have a ghosting problem, but I wonder if it's being caused by your player and not the projector.

In the operators manual starting on page 22 there are 3 tables titled:
"16:9 size"
"2.35:1 size"
"16:9 in 2.35:1 size"

The tables assume you aren't using an A lens.

If you have a 2.35:1 screen and plan to view both 2.35:1 and 16:9 content then use the Minimum distance (LW) from the "2.35:1 size" table, and the Maximum distance (LT) from the "16:9 in 2.35:1 size" table. If the screen size you have isn't listed in the tables then you'll need to do some math and unfortunately the equations they give after the tables don't have "16:9 in 2.35:1 size".

Note that when changing between 2.35:1 and 16:9 viewing you'll need to change the zoom but the projector has memory for this so it makes it easy.

wgf_bean, that is a good question. I actually just ordered a Sony 3D blu-ray player for my parents for Xmas. Maybe I'll open it before I wrap it and give it a try lol. I'll let you know my results.

Do you think it would matter having a 1.4 HDMI cable vs 1.3?

For short runs it shouldn't matter. I believe there's a whole topic for this somewhere on AVS Forums. Version 1.4 adds Ethernet and audio return channels but the 7000 doesn't use these. Version 1.4 is spec'ed at a higher bandwidth for increased pixel resolution and full 1080P in 3D, however that spec is for the HDMI signal (as generated by the device it's connected to) no so much the cable. A 1.3 cable can typically still carry the higher bandwidth. There's no electronics in the cable. A 1.4 cable might have slightly less attenuation but this only comes into play as the cable gets very long.

I use a 1.3 cable and have no problem but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a problem for others. How long is your cable?

It's a long one 50ft from monoprice, but I haven't had any issues with it

Imo it's really a stretch to suspect the drivers - as long as your playback device doesn't output BLENDED images to the projector, the projectors only job is to make sure that when 1 frame is displayed the IR should tell the glasses to open 1 lens and close the other - the HDMI standard should ensure that there can be no L/R image switches. that's it. I can't see how the playback unit can interfere with the 3d sync mechanics.

It doesn't have to interfere with sync to have a problem. If the playback device doesn't output all the frames this is not a fault of the projector, or the HDMI standard. This is fault of the driver. And yes, there are drivers that can't keep up with the frame rate.

If you have a short cable you could temporarily move the playback device to be closer to the projector just to rule out the cable. If moving it doesn't allow you to connect the audio because you're too far away, don't worry about it. Just test the video to see if it matters.

If the device doesn't output all the images, then all is well in terms of sync - you don't lose the 3D effect. Left and right image is sent frame packed (SBS, TD or whatever) to the projector - there can be no MOMENTARY mess up unless the device sends messed up frames (blended).

Thanks for the info. I skimmed thru the manual last month and didn't see the aspect ratio tables. Due to curtain stackback I only have room for a 110" diagonal setup via 2:35. As you stated, they don't have all screen sizes listed but the min.(2:35) and max. (16:9/2:35) seems to be in my range using the SD of 100" as a guide.

Question: When projecting a 16:9 image on a 2:35, does this projector stretch the image so no black bars are created or does it zoom the image making the black bars spill into the screen borders?...

It does not stretch the image. It will have black bars left and right because you change the zoom to view 16:9 (reducing the image size) so the projector won't even reach those areas.

It can vertically stretch the picture so there are no black bars top and bottom, but then you would need a lens to perform the horizontal stretch to make it look right. If you are zooming the 2.35:1 image to fill the screen, light will spill above and below but panasonic has included a internal masking feature where you can mask the left, right, upper, and lower areas to however much you need. These settings are save-able as part of the lens memory and will remove the light spillage. This masking also squares the image nicely if you do use an anamorphic lens.

Hope the helps.

I'm not sure how the sync mechanism is designed in the 7000. I have't taken a peek at the IR signal from the projector. There are different ways to do it. If the playback device outputs the stream of L / R images and drops one, then you could potentially have 2 images in a row for the same eye. One would hope they would drop both L and R, but maybe not. Don't know. So if they do have 2 in a row of say L then depending on how the sync is implemented this could be problem.

It's easy to sit back and say it simply switches back and forth but what if the system is simply a low frequency square wave at the frame rate? Then that signal would have to stretch one alternation and if the glasses use a phase lock loop to avoid drop out issues from IR then it would indeed get confused.

I'd have read up or get my scope out to determine the method used. Now I'm getting curious.

Why stretch the image and distort the properties when you can zoom and focus the image to the proper AR with a single touch of a button on the remote? (Whew, gotta catch my breath )

Wolfie

Maybe I read HT_SoulMan post wrong but I think he was asking about viewing 16:9 on the 2:35.1 screen, not viewing 2:35.1. You don't need to vertically stretch a 16:9 image.

Is your image filling the screen completely with no black bars on the proper AR?.

Ya, I wasn't sure either. Like you said, 16:9 on a 2.35:1 screen doesn't require anything but you will have the unused screen areas in the right and left. If I would stop doing other upgrades, I'd have curtains up that would close to cover those areas.

Our setups are never done--isn't that what they say. lol

What AR screen do you have soulman? I think the bottom line is if you have a 2.35 or 2.40:1 screen, then you will have unused screen area to the left and right when watching 16:9 but 2.35:1 will fill the screen. If you have a 16:9 screen then you'll have bars on the top and bottom for 2.35:1 but 16:9 will fill the screen. The projector doesn't factor into this.

Thanks for answering. I will be using a 2:35 screen which will produce bars on the sides when projecting a 16:9 image. I was thinking along the lines of this projector filling in the whole screen when a 16:9 image is projected on a 2:35 screen by zooming and/or stretching. Either making the bars spill into the side borders or having the image fit directly on screen (like 2:35).

If this was the case, I could bypass curtain masking but it looks like I still will need to do it...

Yes... 16:9 on a 2:35 screen.

Yes. lol
I have this crazy idea of having the screen sides move in and out so the screen can physically change between aspect ratios. I need to redo my screen anyway. Currently it's a 122" 16:9 with the fabric stretched on a frame made with 1x3's. Over the years the frame has twisted a little and I'd like a cinemascope. I think I'll use aluminum channel.

Not crazy at all. I love my adjustable screen size, the only way to go...