OWNERS Thread for the Panasonic PT-AE7000U 3D Projector - Page 103

If this has already been answered, apologies.

The 4th gen Panny glasses are NOT compatible with the AE7000.

I bought some last night from Best Buy, and they would not work. It checking online, the only hits I got on the model # was from Best Buy. It appears they only work with a small number of TVs that have RF emitters.

Yes. Glasses are Panasonic Gen 3.

You shouldn't be having problems like that. I think I would have Panasonic check it out. I won't lie to you Harry Potter does have a couple of major ghost shots, but they only last a few seconds. I don't fault the projector for a couple of ghost shots in a two hour plus movie, when the $50,000 plus projectors in the theaters can't do it either. However, I've not experienced anything like what you described. It's possible you've got some bad glasses. I have heard reports of there being some bad ones out there. Either earlier in this thread or some other thread.

Most owners however, seem to be very happy with this projector, especially for 3D. Read the professional reviews. Also read the user reviews from some of the projector dealers. I've got over 500 hours on mine now and I have not had any major problems (he says while knocking on forehead). I really love this projector and everyone who has seen it has been very impressed as well. The few problems I've encountered were either setting issues or else other equipment incompatibility.

Several people have mentioned that cross-talk could be caused by cables, receivers, or other factors apart from the projector/glasses. How is this even possible? It's all digital signals and the left/right images are completely separate pixels. I can maybe accept that some cross-talk could be in the video encoding such as Blu-ray, which stores the left channel as a normal video stream and compresses the right channel as some kind of difference, but I doubt this would cause an obvious cross-talk effect.

Am I missing something?

Your confusion is due to the misnomer that all digital is the same. With cable, especially in long runs, picture quality can suffer. Even 3D emitter (When I reviewed Sony 30ES) can send corrupted sync signal when I used 50ft CAT5 cable but work fine when I use better shielded cable of the same length.

When it comes to receiver, not all pass thru are pure. Some have been intentionally or unintentionally altered the signal.

I've posted in the past about the troubles I'm having with my 7K. To restate, on some channels (mostly ABC and ESPN) I get stuttering or slowness in the picture. For the most part, it's fine, but sometimes it worse than others (how's that for a bad description). I've even tried 3D as my receiver is not capable (at least I don't think it is, Pioneer VSX-01).

Anyway, the other night even my wife noticed it, which is not good. Because she's torture me over it. So I got to thinking about it again and my first thought was the HDMI cable to the project.

I went back through my Monoprice purchases and found the 24 AWG 25' HDMI cable I bought back in 6/2007. Monoprice describes it as a "standard speed" cable capable of 720p/1080i resolution.

I've played 1080p over this for years on my Panny AX100 with zero issues. And even with the 7K 1080p is never an issue. Is the Directv feed on certain channels.

Should I invest in a new 25' High Speed cable? Somebody else here had the idea of a HDMI extender.

What's everyone think?

Now THAT'S a bummer. I was hoping they'd have made some improvements for use with the PT-AE7000U, like letting in more light! Now I hear they don't work at all? Crazy!

The Panasonic is a good projector. Don't be put off by this thread. ALL projectors have issues. I wouldn't have the 5010 for any amount of money, and take that from someone who bought it and returned in the very next day. Far too noisy (especially the iris), far too much input lag for gaming etc etc. I had a list of major issues with it. For mostly 2D and the occasional 3D, the Panasonic is great. If 3D really isn't going to be a major thing for you, you may want to look at the JVC X30, too, though I personally picked the Panasonic over that, too. There's no perfect projector out there for this kind of money (any kind of money?), but don't get caught up in the hysteria in this thread.


Warming up the (any) projector makes a HUGE difference with regards 3D. Don't turn on your projector for a good few hours, and then turn it on and run a 3D movie immediately. It's unwatchable. I have no idea what's going on with your crosstalk amounts, but, give us some pictures! Take your cell phone and with a paused 3D movie, take a picture through the left lens of your glasses and post it here with a time-stamp. Then I, and perhaps others, can take a picture so you can see what we see.

I have Tangled 3D and Beauty and the Beast 3D of the movies you listed, so maybe use one of those. I want to help everyone in this thread, but unless I can see what you're seeing, it makes it hard to!

I believe the signal is sent as a raw data and clock with no error checking (but could be wrong). Understand that the world is not digital, but analog. The '1's and '0's that make up the data are analog voltage levels. This is true of both clock and data. So if the cable is too long for the signal then the data will get incorrectly clocked into the projector resulting in an incorrect picture. You could see all sorts of weird things if the voltage levels are not within the required range, including ghosting because the next image might not correctly overwrite the data from the previous image. If that happens you'll see major ghosting. Even if the data is sent with error checking, you'd still get ghosting if the next frame decides not to update because the data was wrong. Then you'd have the wrong image on that frame.

So either way (error checking or not) poor data coupling is likely to result in major ghosting.

I'm consfused about 3D with respect to the glasses that can be used with the Panny 7000. For starters, I have a 4000 and I am seriously looking at replacing it with the 7000 but I'm a little confused about the way that the glasses connect. I believe they are currently an infrared connection but bluetooth is suppose to be a better way of connecting. Will, Panasonic eventually update or release a new projector that will connect via bluetooth for the 3D glasses? What about 4th Gen glasses not compatible with the 7000? Why would newer glasses not work with a fairly new projector model?

Since my preamp won't pass 3D, I am looking at the Panasonic 310 (if I can still get one as they are no longer available) or Oppo 93. If I went with the Panasnonic, is there a connectivity advantage of some sort between the Panasonic and the Panny 7000 that would avoid the black box that sits at the front or is this black box required regardless of what Bluray player I choose from the two I listed above. Is the black box a wireless connection just for the glasses to connect or is there a wire(s) that needs to lead from it to the projector or any other equipment on my rack? Where does this black box have to sit? Should I be concerned with an infrared connection vs a bluetooth one? I believe Samsung uses bluetooth quite successfully for their 3D implementation.

Also, do you guys notice a significant improvement on 2D dark passages with the 7000 vs the 4000. I am using a Stewart Firehawk G3 with a 90 inch diagonal. Finally, what is a really good HDMI cable for 3D? I will need around a 15 foot cable to go from the Bluray player to the projector. Can I leave my current HDMI cable being used for 2D intact or do I need to upgrade it as well for the 2D part that currently connects the 4000 to my preamp?

Lots of questions but if someone could shed some light on all this it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

I will reiterate what WilliamG said. Pause the 3D movie at a bad spot, take some pictures looking through one of the glasses' lens and post here. You should not be having major problems viewing 3D. I bet your projector is OK and it's a setup issue either in it, or external equipment.

Edit: I also have Tangled 3D so that would be a good one to test on.

Although I don't want to point finger, based on spec alone, that may just be the culprit. I currently use Monster M2000HD 35ft HDMI cable with no problem. The cheaper (and as good) solution is Blue Jeans Cable BJC-1 22 AWG HDMI cable. I've used that cable for several installs at 45 ft length with no problem.

My weak link turned out to be my Belkin Pure AV Platinum Edition 3 ft HDMI that runs from my player to the switcher. When I changed that to Kimber Kable 19e, my crosstalk problem diminished very dramatically.

My rule of thumb is use what you currently have. When it fails, then change to another cable. I've used my M2000HD since my PT-AE3000 to 4000 to now 7000.

I understand the nature of analog and digital. So cable problems can lead to bit errors. But surely that would just produce random glitches rather than cross-talk which I take to mean a clean blend of left channel with right or vice versa. Frames being partially written at the pixel level sounds implausible - that's not how video processing works. And if anything, I would expect missed frames might look like an intermittent ghost.

Basically, if someone is seeing a CLEAN consistent cross-talk, my bet is that it is entirely due to limitations of the LCD panel and 3D glasses and the temperature effects already discussed. If they observe a difference when changing cable or AV set up, this could just be a coincidence with a temperature change. Evolution has hard-wired us to infer cause and effect from coincidences!

But if someone can prove me wrong, I'd be fascinated.

David, I don't see any evidence. I just googled it and found some avsforum links where people are asking whether cable can affect 3d crosstalk and the replies all say no! This is exactly as I would expect, because I see no technical reason why it should be so.

Now, just to be clear, I am talking about 3D picture crosstalk (ghosting) here. There's also electrical crosstalk, which affects all cables, and a good HDMI cable shouldn't have too much of. If it did, it could lead to signal degradation - a complete dropout, or possibly a few sparkles, but nothing like 3d picture crosstalk.

One reason I'm going on about this is because I don't like to see bad information being propagated, which I feel might be happening in this case. But I have a nagging doubt that there's some crazy effect I don't know about. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of things!

Are you absolutely convinced you've seen the effect? Could you tell us more about how you proved this to yourself? Eg did you turn off the projector in between cables? Did you have exactly the same settings? Was it repeatable?

Yup. I even use a 2x2 HDMI switcher with one output using cable A and another using cable B. Each cable goes to an HDMI input into the projector. Just by changing the input on the projector me and 5 other people in the room can see the difference in crosstalk level.

PS: don't mean to sound harsh, but being an ISF/THX/CEDIA professional I should know the difference between ghosting and crosstalk.

HDMI Cables should not affect 3D crosstalk any more than any SPDIF cable should affect audio speaker separation.

It shouldn't but it does. The same goes with SPDIF affecting sound quality.

What have you done to prevent experimental bias from creeping into the experiment? The experiment that you describe sounds ripe for this sort of bias (and your experimental conclusions do defy technical logic somewhat).

uhmmm: now you see crosstalk, now you don't. As simple as that.

Whatever. I just wanted to help with the solution that helped me and more than a dozen other customers ( and no, they do NOT buy the cable from me - some of them actually just changed the cable themself). Take my solution, don't take my solution, I couldn't care less.

compare it yourself. this is a 300% enlargement of Tintin's head taken through the right lens of the Panasonic glasses. The frame was paused, camera set to manual with the same exposure time on a tripod and the glasses held by a reflector arm (just so it doesn't move). Shutter was pressed remotely with mirror lock to avoid any vibration caused by the camera itself, shutter speed at 1 second. White Balance set to "Sunny/Outdoor" using Canon 7D and Canon 50mm f/1.8Same video settings etc. The only difference is Cable A is used for the first photo, and cable B is used for the second photo.

Notice that the crosstalk is STILL there, but one cable results in far less crosstalk than the other.

WARNING: THE IMAGE I POSTED IS THE WRONG IMAGE, IT IS MEANT FOR ONE OF MY PRINTED ARTICLE (WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PANASONIC PROJECTOR OR CABLE COMPARISON) AND THE IMAGE IS SIMULATED

Refering to the pictures above(Tintin's head) I think most of the crosstalk I see is more like the image on the left, but on occasion it's more pronounced like on the right. What I subjectively experience as a result of even minor ghosting is eye strain and this is really the issue for me, I doubt my setup is worse than anyone elses.

Ah ha! This is a very important piece of info you have supplied. The image with bad ghosting looks the as if the glasses are simply not synced to the correct phase. It's almost as bad as if the glasses were off!

If you view with Cable B and then turn off the glasses what changes? If there is no change then the glasses were not synced at all.

BTW the image on the left does have some ghosting but perhaps your projector wasn't warmed up or you weren't using normal picture mode, etc.

Which movie is this from?

Edit: Can you check to see if the SIGNAL MODE changes when viewing with Cable A vs. B on this 3D movie? Press the menu button on the projector to view it on the bottom of the PICTURE menu.

Is it possible for you to post pictures before and after fixing your problem? I'm very curious to see the difference it made.

Edit: Also do you have info on the cable you were using before, e.g. length, manufacture?

If you see images like on the left then it looks similar to what WilliamG and I saw when the projector panels were not warmed up. Since you've already tried all the suggestions (high altitude mode off, picture mode normal, lamp ECO, glasses normal) we need to think of other settings/equipment issues that could be causing it. I wish I understood why the cable is making a difference for some people. Have you tried changing it to a different brand and/or connecting from the player directly to the projector?

It's normal to experience eye strain when viewing 3D even if there's zero ghosting. My eyes get tired too after watching 3D and I have no ghosting.

The Adventures of Tintin

Well, this is all very intriguing. It's odd how the ghost in the right picture is in a slightly different position to the left picture, and looks quite different in the bottom left corner too.

I have tried what you suggested a couple of times.

Eye strain may be normal after watching an entire film but I experience it almost immediately, whether that's specifically an effect of crosstalk or whether it's simply the effect of 3D, I do not know.

I'm really not that concerned about 3D anyway, the Panasonic performs well in 2D for both movies and games which is primarily what I got it for.

Has the replacement for the 7000 been announced yet?

no replacement for the the 7000 anytime soon. At least not according to Panasonic Canada. Will know for sure on March 21st (press day)