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OWNERS Thread for the Panasonic PT-AE7000U 3D Projector - Page 17

post #481 of 4428
I'm looking forward to hearing Thrangs impressions comparing the Panasonic to his RS50 in 2D as well.

From what I've read I'm gathering that 3D and motion is better than on the JVCs. I have a Pioneer FPJ1 (RS2 clone) and my biggest concern about the Panasonic is the on/off contrast (and if there is potential dust blobs). I'm a black level nut and thus far it's the RS45 for me but I am a bit concerned about all the issues others are having with bulbs and many others are saying that the JVCs having noticeable crosstalk issues with 3D after they get 300-400 hours on the bulb.
post #482 of 4428
Can you guys share which mount you are using. I have heard that the joystick is aweful but is there a mount that has helped avoid using the joystick?
post #483 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

7000 was delivered a few hours back, still in the box...went to purchase the new 3gen glasses and a few new titles

Will set up later this afternoon and try and post some feedback here later today or tomorrow - likely will open a new thread with my thoughts comparing the 7000 to my existing RS50...

Sweet. Please post a link.
post #484 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I'm looking forward to hearing Thrangs impressions comparing the Panasonic to his RS50 in 2D as well.

From what I've read I'm gathering that 3D and motion is better than on the JVCs. I have a Pioneer FPJ1 (RS2 clone) and my biggest concern about the Panasonic is the on/off contrast (and if there is potential dust blobs). I'm a black level nut and thus far it's the RS45 for me but I am a bit concerned about all the issues others are having with bulbs and many others are saying that the JVCs having noticeable crosstalk issues with 3D after they get 300-400 hours on the bulb.

I have those same concerns!!!! I am going for the RS45 though unless it evident that the panny's black level/contrast and overall 2D picture quality is equal or better than the JVC.
post #485 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post

I have those same concerns!!!! I am going for the RS45 though unless it evident that the panny's black level/contrast and overall 2D picture quality is equal or better than the JVC.

My assumption is that the RS40 is at least as good or better than my RS2 and if the Panny is about the same I can live with that if every thing else is as good as it says. AVForums gives the Panasonic a 4/5 with black levels (Excellent) and the RS40 a 5/5 (Reference). However, they also state in their review that most of their review time they turn off dynamic iris' which should have a huge impact. Zombie10k stated he has the Sony and it's not too far off from his RS50 and from the reviews I've seen so far rate the Panasonic better than the Sony AES30. I also saw the Sony at BB and it did look good but it was projecting onto a 92" Black Diamond screen whereas my screen is a 106" Dalite HP so it's hard to make a comparison.
post #486 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

My assumption is that the RS40 is at least as good or better than my RS2 and if the Panny is about the same I can live with that if every thing else is as good as it says. AVForums gives the Panasonic a 4/5 with black levels (Excellent) and the RS40 a 5/5 (Reference). However, they also state in their review that most of their review time they turn off dynamic iris' which should have a huge impact. Zombie10k stated he has the Sony and it's not too far off from his RS50 and from the reviews I've seen so far rate the Panasonic better than the Sony AES30. I also saw the Sony at BB and it did look good but it was projecting onto a 92" Black Diamond screen whereas my screen is a 106" Dalite HP so it's hard to make a comparison.

I saw the panny last night at a store in Toronto, but it was shown in really awful conditions (12 other panels on at the same time with a lot of ambient light in the room.) The image looked washed out and the 3D wasn't working for some strange reason. I wonder just how much an improvement (if any) is the RS45 over the RS40 in terms of 2D. For 3D, I pretty much expect the Panny to be better but who knows, the the RS45 might just surprise us. BTW, I have a 128" Dalite HP. I can't wait for a professional review of the RS45 so that we can have a better guage on these two PJs (RS45 vs PT7000)
post #487 of 4428
Maybe it was just the material I was watching, but curious if any other 7000 owners have noticed subtle and rare fluctuation of the image brightness? Thought it might be related to the dynamic iris, but turning it off doesn't impact the condition.

I'll check further tomorrow, but if it persists, I wonder if I have a faulty bulb or if there's some odd process occurring.
post #488 of 4428
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Maybe it was just the material I was watching, but curious if any other 7000 owners have noticed subtle and rare fluctuation of the image brightness? Thought it might be related to the dynamic iris, but turning it off doesn't impact the condition.

I'll check further tomorrow, but if it persists, I wonder if I have a faulty bulb or if there's some odd process occurring.

So far (approx. 30 hours on lamp, all in economy mode) haven't noticed any flickering or fluctuations in brightness either in 2D or 3D.

Hope it's not a bad lamp. But at least there's the 90 day lamp warranty to fall back on.
post #489 of 4428
I own the RS25 and hate the motion blur with moving camera scenes. I want a better 2D pj but I do not want to lose any of my reference black level. What are my options?
post #490 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Maybe it was just the material I was watching, but curious if any other 7000 owners have noticed subtle and rare fluctuation of the image brightness? Thought it might be related to the dynamic iris, but turning it off doesn't impact the condition.

I'll check further tomorrow, but if it persists, I wonder if I have a faulty bulb or if there's some odd process occurring.

I have not seen that at all and I have had 2 units so far (one with a blue blog) but neither did that so I would not rule out that the unit can has an issue.

Call Panasonic tech support they can help and or where you got it from
post #491 of 4428
I will put my hands on the AE7000 in the next 3 days. I will calibrate and share the mensures here. I have two AE4000 with me now, one with 1200 lamp hours and another with 0 lamp hours, i will make some side-by-side between this projectors and the AE7000 too, but this will take more time and i will share some pictures here in the next two weeks. This week i will only take care about calibrate the AE7000 with the eye one. I foresee many hours of fun.
Clayton
post #492 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Maybe it was just the material I was watching, but curious if any other 7000 owners have noticed subtle and rare fluctuation of the image brightness? Thought it might be related to the dynamic iris, but turning it off doesn't impact the condition.

I'll check further tomorrow, but if it persists, I wonder if I have a faulty bulb or if there's some odd process occurring.

Check for a Dynamic Contrast enhancer option. My Epson had this on by default and it drove me crazy. Not sure what it's called on the Panny.

How is the comparison coming along? Need to decide on tuesday to get the Sony 95 or save a few grand and go with the ae7000.
post #493 of 4428
I will try to keep my comments here limited to the 7000 only, and post this comments with more comparative comments in a separate thread so this thread doesn't become polluted with too much OT talk.

Overall, I think the 7000 is a very good projector, and a great value for the price point. Whether its a home run, double, or deep fly out to centerfield depends on a few factors, most importantly your mix of movie/broadcast material. Assessing what is most important to you in a projector's qualities in relation to those habits will also help guide you. It is NOT the perfect projector, though none of the several I've owned over the past year could claim that title either.

Also not that my unit is not calibrated, and I have some issues that I believe will require an exchange. If the replacement addresses some of these concerns, the opinions below may deserve some updating.

My setup is a 133" 16:9 2.8 High Power, about a 14.5 throw, tabletop mounted behind my seating area (lens center is about 1/3 from the bottom the screen)

I don't have a meter, so these are comments based on observation, not measurement.

Lamp was set to ECO, and most viewing was in REC 709


Setup
Nothing much to add here except to agree that the joystick is stupid. Didn't take me very long, but if they would have put a smoother ball joint it would have been fine - this grabs and lurches.

Remote
Small, and not a lot of discrete buttons. I hope Logitech has the remote codes in their database, because there would be the desire to access some processing options directly

Fit and Finish
The unit is larger than I expected, but not cumbersome at all. Feel is very sold, matte finish looks and feels good, and care has gone into the overall construction, at least from an external perspective.

2D (viewed hockey and PGA golf on broadcast, and Avatar on Blu Ray)

Brightness - Excellent
Frankly, with my screen, its borderline too bright, even on eco mode and using REC 709 or the Cinema mode. This is rather unexpected, but should be a tremendous positive to many here.

Contrast - Excellent
The 7000 exhibits a tremendous sense of depth because of the perceived contrast, Turning Dynamic IRIS off didn't harm this percept much at all.

DI Operation - TBD
I don't THINK there is any pumping at all with the DI, but my unit does have a subtle fluctuation of brightness in certain scenes, seemingly repeatable, and even with the DI off. So either the DI is doing this and not disabling correctly (highly unlikely), there is a bulb issue, or there is some processing issue going on that either I don't like, can't disable, or is not functioning correctly.

Sharpness/Noise - Average to Good
While I'll see if the replacement unit helps, the lens sharpness is not super with the 7000. Center region is fairly sharp, but corners are softer, especially the two lower corners for me. There is a subtle "halo" around high contrast images when viewed up close, perhaps some attempt at pixel smoothing. It's not evident at normal viewing distance

The sharpness control is useless, Anything over 0 introduces ringing, and I almost wish it went to negative 1.

I sense a little noise in shadow areas, but nothing invasive, so far.

I've not gotten enough sense of the what the Detail Enhancer is actually doing to the image, so I've left it at default for now, as I have with noise controls (I suspect the latter is not applicable to HD sources, at least this was the case on some prior projectors I've owned)

Viewing text from a PC on the unit is very revealing, and would lead to your poorest assessment of the 7000. There seem to be subtle artifacts around lettering even with sharpness disabled. A number of these issues do not seem very apparent with typical viewing material, but one would notice some softness on text graphic overlays watching news or sports events.

Motion - Very Good to Excellent
60i
Native panel motion is very good, and the three Frame Creation modes greatly improve sports viewing. Some here know my savant-like viewing of hockey, and the 7000 with FC renders solid and clear images.

I'm rating it Very Good to Excellent since there are variable when using or not using the motion enhancement option. When not use, the native panel motion is Very Good but not the best I've seen (the Sony VPL-VW-85 still has a place in my heat for that)

24p
Superb, fluid 24p playback - best I've experienced.
Color - Very Good
(Since my unit is not calibrated, please remember that performance/assessment here may be improved.) Cinema 1 or REC 709 can get you daily close out of the box respectable color performance. Cinema 1 seems a bit over saturated, REC 709 a bit undersaturated, but either are more than watchable. A calibration would likely help, but it seems you're about 85% of the way there out of box.

Black Levels/Detail - Good
(Since my unit is not calibrated, please remember that performance/assessment here may be improved.) While the black levels are good, that are not outstanding, and there is some sense of black crush and loss of detail in very dark scenes or shadows. Fade to Blacks aren't as black as I've seen

Uniformity - Average
Perhaps this is my unit only, but white or grey screens will show areas of green and red. While endemic of the LCD world, I think mine warrants a replacement.

Fan Noise - Excellent
In ECO mode, I really can't hear anything a few feet away from my head. There is a little fan noise in Normal mode, but not noticeable when listening to content.

Corners - Excellent
No noticeable hot corners

3D Performance - Stunning

(plagiarizing my earlier post)

I've watched a portion of one title, Despicable Me, which was very problematic on my current RS50 - heavy ghosting in many scenes. With the 7000, ghosting is nearly non-existent; to find some requires the investigative patience normally applied to winning a large Where's Waldo game...

I am using the 3rd gen Panny glasses, running in Normal Brightness mode. I tried Light, and that was also superb - maybe a touch more ghosting, but still very watchable, and orders of magnitude better than what I've experienced before. Almost no sense of shutter sequencing either with the 7000 - the 50 has a subtle but noticeable flicker.

The 7000's 3D performance might make 3D viewing a more important factor for you if it wasn't already - with the RS50, I sort of gave up on 3D for the most part. If more titles that I test show similar performance, it will make me look forward to viewing 3D..


Summary:

So what you do depends on, well, what you watch, and what's important qualitatviely.

My couch potato habits about 50/50 movies and sports, maybe even 60/40 broadcast when the hockey season is on. And while black levels and shadow detail are important, this only affects 40 to 50% of my viewing, and motion performance also contributes to this experience. The sharpness issues are of some concern, but a) I'd like to see how the replacement unit might address this, and b) the issues are more prevalent on static or text issues. much less so on moving images. And the overall contrast of the unit often creates such an appealing and riveting image that the lack of some black level detail may be demoted in your rank of what's important.

If I were to put all the discrete elements I've commented on in blender, mixed well, and took a gulp, I would say "this tastes really, really, surprisingly good despite a few of the slightly expired ingredients I've tossed in there..."

So if you're all (or mostly) about movie watching, and black level trumps all, I would look elsewhere. If other image factors hold similar weight, and/or you have a healthy blend of broadcast viewing where black level performance is a non-issue, the 7000 appears to be an outstanding option.

I think I will stay with the 7000 but need to replace my unit to see if the above concerns I have are addressed reasonably well. If I were all movie, the decision is a bit more murky, and frankly three hours of viewing is not enough. If I watch The Godfather, I might have some different opinions. And continue to bear in mind these are initial impressions, and subject to change or, more precisely, embarrassing backtracking...

But its a lot like evaluating the performance features of a car - some get to 60 really fast, some have ungoverned top ends well over 150 - and when you use those capabilities, it's exhilarating. The question is, how often will you use them, or does getting to 110 miles per hour with really nice acceleration more than fit the bill of your daily driving habits?
post #494 of 4428
^^^^

Thanks thrang for the informative user review. Its very much appreciated.

Regards,
post #495 of 4428
Hey folks. Brand new to forums, but hoping you good folks will point me in the right direction. I would like to know the proper etiquette / place to ask about reasonably priced, good quality 3D glasses for the PT-AE7000U I just ordered. Thanks in advance.
post #496 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by BisonStampede View Post

Hey folks. Brand new to forums, but hoping you good folks will point me in the right direction. I would like to know the proper etiquette / place to ask about reasonably priced, good quality 3D glasses for the PT-AE7000U I just ordered. Thanks in advance.

Forum rules don't allow price talk other than MSR [Sticker] Pricing.

With that said - people do it anyway.
post #497 of 4428
Thanks for taking the time to share your detailed and unbiased opinion Thrang! That was very helpful.
post #498 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by sudetta View Post

Model: TY-EW3D3M

So it's the third generation

(August 2011)
Precise Control
These active shutter rechargeable glasses from Panasonic feature highly precise control that closes the shutters for both eyes at the instant that the images change for the left and right eyes. This brings cinema-level images right into the living room, without the problems of image deterioration and blurring that were common to conventional 3D systems.

Convenient & Easy to Use
The glasses also feature a durable, adjustable resin frame, a slide switch to turn power on and off, and easy recharging via USB. Sized for ages 8 and up, they are designed for use while wearing ordinary prescription glasses.

Product Features
New, improved design
Use with any compatible Panasonic 3D TV
Weighs less than one ounce for comfortable viewing
High-precision shutter control
Easily rechargeable Lithium-ion Polymer battery; charge by connecting the included charging cable to the USB terminal of the compatible 3D TV

Cleaning & Storage
Clean using a soft, dry cloth
Do not use benzene, thinner, or wax on the 3D eyewear, as doing so may cause the paint to peel off
Do not dunk 3D eyewear in liquid such as water when cleaning
Fully charge the 3D eyewear once every six months to keep battery performance

Panasonic 3rd Generation 3D Glasses Comparison
Frame Sequential Type (Active Liquid Crystal Shutter)

3D Eyewear:
TY-EW3D3LU (Large)
TY-EW3D3MU (Medium)

TY-EW3D3SU (Small)


DC 5 V (supplied by USB terminal of a VIERA 3D TV)

Battery Duration
Approx. 25 hours operation time for a 30-minute full battery charge

Battery Type
Lithium-ion Polymer Rechargeable Battery
post #499 of 4428
I think the answer to all this is the Sony VW95. I'm hoping for $5K price on it and then I'll be getting it over both the RS45 and the 7000.

I don't like spending money on equipment that isn't quite right. I'd rather spend a bit more and get something that really works well.

I think JVC sees the writing on the wall and I'm guessing there is going to be a whole new line of projectors next year. Their current line has issues, vis a vis the competition. Brightness. Motion. 3D. Lamps. Ghosting.

I don't like that the RS45 is matte instead of gloss and I don't like that it doesn't have the automatic lens cover. I don't see a lot of value in the RS55 over the RS45.

It might just be me and its maybe something I need to get over, but I haven't like the Panasonic brand for a long time.

I'm hoping the VW95 comes through with good performance across the board and that Sony prices it competitively.
post #500 of 4428
I may be wrong, but the price for the VW95 will be 2x the price for the AE7000, right ?
post #501 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post


Lamp was set to ECO, and most viewing was in REC 709


I don't THINK there is any pumping at all with the DI, but my unit does have a subtle fluctuation of brightness in certain scenes, seemingly repeatable, and even with the DI off. So either the DI is doing this and not disabling correctly (highly unlikely), there is a bulb issue, or there is some processing issue going on that either I don't like, can't disable, or is not functioning correctly.

I may be wrong, but this just sounds like the "normal" arc shifting that these mercury vapor lamps go through from time to time. I've had two Panny projectors with a total of four lamps, ran them on eco, and in all cases once or twice during the lamp life I've had to switch from eco to normal for a few days to burn through a "bad" spot on the electrodes. I've read lengthy articles by knowledgeable industry insiders explaining this as a normal operating characteristic of the types of lamps used in all our projectors. Perhaps others would like to weigh in.
post #502 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMJack View Post

I may be wrong, but this just sounds like the "normal" arc shifting that these mercury vapor lamps go through from time to time. I've had two Panny projectors with a total of four lamps, ran them on eco, and in all cases once or twice during the lamp life I've had to switch from eco to normal for a few days to burn through a "bad" spot on the electrodes. I've read lengthy articles by knowledgeable industry insiders explaining this as a normal operating characteristic of the types of lamps used in all our projectors. Perhaps others would like to weigh in.

I've had this on my rptv and my old projector as well and just switch them to high for a few hours then back and it takes care of the issue. Sort of why I'm hoping for more affordable and brighter led options while I'm working on my basement theater.
post #503 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by damelon View Post

rgrele/Thrang - Just an FYI, the 3D transfer of Despicable Me is known to be a poor master on Blu Ray. It's the material itself. For some reason this blu ray just isn't quite right. It might not be the dynamic mode at all as far as ghosting. I'd try another title with the same setup to verify if the settings you had were good or not.

Do you have a source for this information? I see nothing wrong (from a 3D perspective) with this disc. I have watched it numerous times in 3D on both a 3D DLP (RPTV) and now on the 7000. On my DLP I see absolutely zero ghosting. On the 7000 I see minor ghosting in several scenes. However I have seen minor ghosting on every 3DBD I have auditioned so far on the 7000.
post #504 of 4428
I have confirmed that there is a pumping, flashing or color changing when DI is set to ON. It is not the bulb.

This became very apparent on a DVD (not BD). I was running Cinema 2. I noticed it during a scene where there was a mosaic of colors on a white table cloth as the camera was panning down. The same color flashes occurred after rewinding the scene many times. I checked all other functions one by one to eliminate them. What I found is that it tends to happen to a different degree depending on the Mode used. It happened to a much lesser extent in Cinema 1, but it was still there on Normal. I tried adjusting each Mode's brightness and contrast settings to be similar so it would be a fair comparison. I found no other Picture setting being able to compensate for this Dynamic Iris problem.

I thought I noticed this happen subtly on Bluray before, but thought it was in the movie. This particular DVD was not mastered well at all, but it wasn't the DVD's fault, though it probably didn't help. I'm kinda bummed out now, because I never saw this with the AE2000U so this is all new to me. I saw people talking about this effect in the forums, but never seen for myself until now. Has Panasonic engineering degraded over the years? Other functions seem to work great, though there's something about the Frame Creation 2 setting.

If others confirm this, I suppose I'll have to live with it if all 7000's have it. If I'm just unlucky, I'd like to know if there is a fix. Now that I'm beyond 4hrs, there's not much I can do but send it in. However, I don't see how they can fix such a subtle effect unless they understand the problem before-hand.
post #505 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by claymic View Post

I may be wrong, but the price for the VW95 will be 2x the price for the AE7000, right ?

If it's $5k then it's not twice the price but it's close enough that it's definitely not the answer to all
post #506 of 4428
I will say the 7000 is a very good projector and Panasonic deserves a kudos for what they have achieved in that price bracket. Truly a score for them. However, my eyes (tastes) still favor Sony's SXRD look to the Panny's LCD. Call it whatever you like but if I had the choice between the two at the exact same price I would still take the Sony. 3D looks great on both and I promise you if the Panny were LcoS I would like it even more (and yes we have two pairs of the latest Pannys). And for the 30 I broke out the big guns (Monstervision glasses)! I helped him (my neighbor) set it up last night but planned this afternoon to do some actual playing. Ghosting on both are very good to excellent. I also am not a fan of the "joystick" they used. Panasonic should have just used buttons intead. Of course now that it is set up he won't have to touch it again for a long time (if ever). Sharpness was pretty close. I would say both had very sharp Centers with it not being as crisp the further you get out. Still for this price range I was impressed. And like Pannys before I noticed that adding just a little (sharpness) seems to add ringing or noise. I would suggest not touching it with the 7000. The last thing I want to comment on was we were able to catch the iris working/pumping on the Panny at times. Not the Sony at all. This is not a show stopper by any means and most will not notice it. Both units are very quiet.

The NFL games is where the Sony just has more "pop" which is not surprising. He made me turn mine off so he wouldn't be jealous. It was funny though but I was able to get his 7000 to "pop" some by playing with the remote. Speaking of... The remotes are not even close. The Sony's blows that little guy out of the water. If I were to keep a 7000 I would have to get an upraded Universal remote like a Harmony 1100 or a regular style.

So I plan to do a little more playing with the 7000 (this is helping me kill time before the 95ES shows up) and Blu ray 2D movies. So far black level is pretty solid though I would suspect for some crazy reason the JVC will probably beat it. Of course that is just a prediction. The Sony's is also very solid for that price range.

I think anyone who grabs either the Sony or the Panny will be winners. I can't predict the JVC 45 since we do not know if they solved their Sudden Dim Issue (SDI). As for now if you do not want to wait you can't go wrong with either or...
post #507 of 4428
Quote:
If it's $5k then it's not twice the price but it's close enough that it's definitely not the answer to all

I know that. But the price for VW95 will be more than 6.500k (2.16x), is what i have read about it, not 5k, because that i want to know the price.
post #508 of 4428
this is from page 14 of ae7000 manual regarding lamp flicker or fluctuation.



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post #509 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryep View Post

this is from page 14 of ae7000 manual regarding lamp flicker or fluctuation.

That first one is why I always worry about shipping!
post #510 of 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryep View Post

this is from page 14 of ae7000 manual regarding lamp flicker or fluctuation.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

None of this applies to my installation,though today, I've not noticed the issue, so perhaps it was just a breaking-in issue with a brand new bulb.
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