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Seriously... are they TRYING to kill Bluray 3D, or are they just stupid? - Page 3

post #61 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

How much did Blurays cost 16 months after BD's launch? That would be October 2007.

Yeah, they were $30 or whatever too, right? The first Blu-ray I bought was Speed, and it was $30. It didn't feel too good then either.

It just seems that realistically, the 3D disc should be on par with the extra charge for including a DVD and/or digital copy or whatever.

Like Despicable Me is $22 for the Blu-ray + DVD + digital copy combo at a popular online retailer. The same thing + the 3D disc is $36. Quite a jump there.
post #62 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by stumlad View Post

I almost wrote a post on this when I saw Transformers 3 wasn't getting a 3D release day and date with the 2D. I decided to hold off on watch/purchasing because of this too...

I am doing this too. As consumers, the only real way we have to voice our opinions that the studios might listen to is with our wallets...

Movies that are 3D and released to Blu-Ray in 3D (Thank You Disney) I buy, studio gets my money and they get me to buy their 4 pack of discs even though I really only want one. Example: Pirates of the Carribean: Stranger Tides

Movies released to Blu-Ray without 3D but have an announced date of a future 3D release, I will not buy or rent it until it comes out in 3D. I will buy and watch it then and the studio gets my money but not from a double dip. Example: Transformers 3

Movies made in 3D then not released to Blu-Ray on 3D with no announcement that they will be in 3D. This movie I rent. I do not buy and I likely do not buy it on 3D if it ever goes to 3D. Example: Jackass 3D

So if the studios think it isn't worth their time or they will not make enough off the "gimmick" then they just lost a sale. By the time they might decide to release it in 3D I will be way past being interested in it or rental services will have 3D and I will rent it.

It's their choice. I really don't get that upset about it. they are the losers. So I watched Jackass 3 in 2D and rented it. They got virtually nothing, while a crappy movie like Drive Crazy got $40 out of me. Winner.
post #63 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

I am doing this too. As consumers, the only real way we have to voice our opinions that the studios might listen to is with our wallets...

This isn't really true. Even a vocal minority can get traction through online activism. All companies now track "the buzz" from various social media sites.
post #64 of 137
I had no idea what the wall st protesters were upset about. Now I know: 3D blu-ray prices.
post #65 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

This isn't really true. Even a vocal minority can get traction through online activism. All companies now track "the buzz" from various social media sites.

Not trying to diss you, but what makes you think companies track the buzz? If they track the buzz, it is an effort to learn how to better separate you and your cash. The best system for tracking is already in place, sales indices.
post #66 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

This isn't really true. Even a vocal minority can get traction through online activism. All companies now track "the buzz" from various social media sites.

Sorry, but I think you are dilusional if you believe that complaints from vocal minority weigh in at senior level board meetings. Just ask Netflix.
post #67 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

Sorry, but I think you are dilusional if you believe that complaints from vocal minority weigh in at senior level board meetings. Just ask Netflix.

Dilusional ? Isn't that too strong a word to use - given that you don't know who I am ?

Forget board meetings - vocal minorities have influence at all levels everywhere. Yes, they might be talking about vocal minorities (like journalists, for eg.) even in cabinet meetings.

As for Netflix, there are various theories. The one I think is most plausible is that Hollywood forced the decision on Netflix - because they have all the pricing power and Netflix holds no cards when it comes to streaming. Hollywood wants per user charges (just like a TV channel, whether all of them watch the channel or not) - so, Netflix had to split streaming & DVD rental business to bring down the streaming numbers.

BTW, do you really think Netflix doesn't notice all the -ve reaction to it's restructuring by the vocal minority ? It might be entirely a different question as to whether they can do much about it.
post #68 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferl View Post

Not trying to diss you, but what makes you think companies track the buzz?

Not just track the buzz - some marketing/pr people's performance reviews might be based on that buzz.
post #69 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

Sorry, but I think you are dilusional if you believe that complaints from vocal minority weigh in at senior level board meetings. Just ask Netflix.

Good point with Netflix. They took a lot of heat and lost good percentage of their subscriber base. Will they reverse or amend their decision? NOPE.
Time will pass, people will forget and they will continue to make money.
post #70 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferl View Post

Good point with Netflix. They took a lot of heat and lost good percentage of their subscriber base. Will they reverse or amend their decision? NOPE.
Time will pass, people will forget and they will continue to make money.

If they don't improve their streaming library, I don't see how they can sustain the numbers they are getting now. Renewal of the contract with Starz is in jeopardy. I am about done with them.
post #71 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

If they don't improve their streaming library, I don't see how they can sustain the numbers they are getting now. Renewal of the contract with Starz is in jeopardy. I am about done with them.

Well, this last month they've added Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, The original Law and Order, Deadliest catch and more. All of which are great additions, in my opinion.
post #72 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

If they don't improve their streaming library, I don't see how they can sustain the numbers they are getting now. Renewal of the contract with Starz is in jeopardy. I am about done with them.

I already dropped them when they doubled their fee.
post #73 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferl View Post

Good point with Netflix. They took a lot of heat and lost good percentage of their subscriber base. Will they reverse or amend their decision? NOPE.

The decision was forced upon them by Hollywood per user charges. Netflix has zero flexibility in this - so they can't reverse the changes.
post #74 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnow View Post

The decision was forced upon them by Hollywood per user charges. Netflix has zero flexibility in this - so they can't reverse the changes.

Where did that information come from? I'll let this drop since this is a 3D thread, but I think this is an accurate assessment
http://www.mimiran.com/customer-segm...eir-prices-60/
post #75 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferl View Post

I already dropped them when they doubled their fee.

It was a 60% price increase - not 100%

Still a great deal - less then $20 a month to get both unlimited streaming and 1 OD at a time
post #76 of 137
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferl View Post


I already dropped them when they doubled their fee.

Yep, it wasn't just raising their fee that did it for me - it was the fact that they were now going to send me the movies a month later. As you can tell, that didn't sit well with me..

But as a cheap streaming model, which they have now boxed themselves into, getting the movies later might suit some of their subscribers, as it is cheaper that way.. BUT... This will not suit Bluray 3D buyers, since they are paying a premium price for a premium product, even above regular Bluray. It is just beyond insulting to start to play games with later release windows on Bluray 3D...
post #77 of 137
2D BD releases months before the 3D BD releases: They're just milking it, plain and simple. They don't release the 3D versions at the same time as the 2D versions, because the 3D versions also contain the 2D version. They want to sell both. If they released the 3D version right off the bat, there would be no selling a 2D only version, becasue people can get that in the 3D version. They want two sell two SKUs, this is how they do it.
post #78 of 137
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post

2D BD releases months before the 3D BD releases: They're just milking it, plain and simple. They don't release the 3D versions at the same time as the 2D versions, because the 3D versions also contain the 2D version. They want to sell both. If they released the 3D version right off the bat, there would be no selling a 2D only version, becasue people can get that in the 3D version. They want two sell two SKUs, this is how they do it.

Most people WOULD already buy the 2D version, because a minority of BD owners are equipped with 3D. And the VHS and DVD versions of movies were separate SKUs also - that has NOTHNG to do with them having different release dates.

Further, it is NOT ok for us to accept that 3D is just another version that can be saved for later release as a double dip, like a directors cut. Fundamentally that is totally wrong and few people would buy into the format on that basis.

It is NOT the same as getting a later version with some extras. BD 3D is a format in it's own right, and to withhold a 3D movie in it's native 3D presentation, just to milk BD 3D adopters is patently wrong, is a total anti-sell, and would absolutely anger adopters of the format.

I believe that most BD 3D owners are in agreement with my complaint.

Seems to me the only folks that would say that this practice is ok are those who are not invested in BD 3D.
post #79 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Daddicted View Post

Well, this last month they've added Breaking Bad, Walking Dead, The original Law and Order, Deadliest catch and more. All of which are great additions, in my opinion.

Breaking Bad? Why not watch that when it is originally aired, it's not on a premium channel. I don't see that as being an addition that's going to sway me. Anyway, I was talking movies, not TV shows.
post #80 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Most people WOULD already buy the 2D version, because a minority of BD owners are equipped with 3D. And the VHS and DVD versions of movies were separate SKUs also - that has NOTHNG to do with them having different release dates.

Further, it is NOT ok for us to accept that 3D is just another version that can be saved for later release as a double dip, like a directors cut. Fundamentally that is totally wrong and few people would buy into the format on that basis.

It is NOT the same as getting a later version with some extras. BD 3D is a format in it's own right, and to withhold a 3D movie in it's native 3D presentation, just to milk BD 3D adopters is patently wrong, is a total anti-sell, and would absolutely anger adopters of the format.

I believe that most BD 3D owners are in agreement with my complaint.

Seems to me the only folks that would say that this practice is ok are those who are not invested in BD 3D.

You sound like a guy that waits in line for hours to be the first to see a movie. I'm not aware of a single instance in which a movie has changed once it went into general distribution. What difference does it make when you see it?
post #81 of 137
On another note, I was just watching the local news, and they announced a Disney 3D conversion release schedule. 2 in 2012, and 2 more in 2013. I'm wondering why they are spreading them out so much...are they simply waiting for results before committing to a new conversion?
post #82 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

Breaking Bad? Why not watch that when it is originally aired, it's not on a premium channel. I don't see that as being an addition that's going to sway me. Anyway, I was talking movies, not TV shows.

Not everyone wastes money on cable. But nice presumption.
post #83 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Daddicted View Post

Not everyone wastes money on cable. But nice presumption.

Watching a show from beginning to end is also a nice feature. My cable watching accounts for maybe 5% of my total experience. If it wasn't part of my hoa fees I would not have it at all.
post #84 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferl View Post

Where did that information come from? I'll let this drop since this is a 3D thread, but I think this is an accurate assessment
http://www.mimiran.com/customer-segm...eir-prices-60/

I've linked the analysis in this thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21054834

We can discuss the issue further in that netflix thread.
post #85 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

On another note, I was just watching the local news, and they announced a Disney 3D conversion release schedule. 2 in 2012, and 2 more in 2013. I'm wondering why they are spreading them out so much...are they simply waiting for results before committing to a new conversion?

One of the movies - Monsters Inc will have it's part 2 (Monsters University) debut in 2013 so you can see why the original will be released in 2013 and not 2012.

Quote:
· Disney-Pixar’s Monsters, Inc. – January 18, 2013 (Monsters University, a prequel to the original film, arrives in theaters in Disney Digital 3D on June 21, 2013)

Disney likes to pace out their special releases. You can already see that with their vault edition animation titles on Bluray.
post #86 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

On another note, I was just watching the local news, and they announced a Disney 3D conversion release schedule. 2 in 2012, and 2 more in 2013. I'm wondering why they are spreading them out so much...are they simply waiting for results before committing to a new conversion?

Probably because they have a plethora of shot/rendered 3d releases as well.
2011 had only three conversions from them that I'm aware of (Lion King, Beauty, Nightmare Before Christmas) (and the conversion on NBC was already done), but something like fifteen 3d releases overall.
post #87 of 137
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post

You sound like a guy that waits in line for hours to be the first to see a movie.

Far from it, in most instances, I'll wait for a movie to hit Bluray, so that I can watch it at home, exceptions being something I really want to see so badly that I head to the theater. I still head to the theater once or twice a month, as a social thing with friends - but I also look forward to the home release to watch with friends in the home theater as well - it makes a big difference when we anticipate watching a new home release in 3D, only to find it has been "waylaid" by some marketing types somewhere...

As an FYI - I don't buy DVDs anymore. I mostly rent Blurays, and only buy Bluray releases when they are big 2D hits which I'll want to have available for anytime use at home, such as "Inception". I buy almost all Bluray 3D titles released, but will NEVER buy a 2D Bluray of a 3D movie - so the effort to get a double-sale by withholding the BD 3D release is not only FUTILE, but EXTREMELY annoying.

Quote:


I'm not aware of a single instance in which a movie has changed once it went into general distribution. What difference does it make when you see it?

Huh? What kind of question is that? If it made no difference when anyone saw it, then why not just release the DVD and Bluray versions 2 years later?

Of COURSE it matters when you see it. And the point is not that it is release 4 months after theaters, versus 5 months - the point is that in these cases they chose to hold the 3D Bluray release hostage, while releasing everything else.

I'm trying hard to understand how you could be arguing that the release date doesn't matter. Do you have a Bluray 3D setup or not?

Quote:


On another note, I was just watching the local news, and they announced a Disney 3D conversion release schedule. 2 in 2012, and 2 more in 2013. I'm wondering why they are spreading them out so much...are they simply waiting for results before committing to a new conversion?

For catalog releases like that, which they are re-rendering and re-releasing in 3D, it would seem to make sense not to release them all at once.

First, it costs time and money to re-render, and to publish to disc. Second, to release all at once would probably cost overall sales, as the customer would be unlikely to purchase all the titles at the same time, so staggering these releases would probably ensure better sales for each one, particularly if released before a new theater sequel is released.
post #88 of 137
Thread Starter 
As the premium Bluray format, if anything, they should be releasing the 3D versions FIRST.

Suppose you release the 3D Bluray 2 weeks ahead of the official release date - guess what, you'll have TONS of sales of the 3D version - in many cases by people who haven't actually bought a 3D system yet, but who are considering it.

This is VERY MUCH help with 3D Bluray growth. I can easily see cases where someone has not yet bought a 3D television, but will buy a 3D player, in the belief that this will help him watch the 3D discs - even tho he knows that he will only see it in 2D.

Being able to buy the 3D release ahead of the other formats is MUCH smarter. No one is offended, and the 3D buyers will feel that they have been rewarded for their support, not the other way around.

Furthermore, those who have not yet bought into the 3D format will see a real reason to start buying the 3D discs instead of the regular 2D version later on.

And with a library building, they will upgrade to 3D hardware much sooner than not.

PLUS, you are guaranteed that they will buy the movie, instead of renting it, while at the same time helping to ensure the penetration, and ultimately the success, of the Bluray 3D format.

Surely I'm not the only one who can see the upside of pushing your premium format out a little earlier?
post #89 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

As the premium Bluray format, if anything, they should be releasing the 3D versions FIRST.

Suppose you release the 3D Bluray 2 weeks ahead of the official release date - guess what, you'll have TONS of sales of the 3D version - in many cases by people who haven't actually bought a 3D system yet, but who are considering it.

This is VERY MUCH help with 3D Bluray growth. I can easily see cases where someone has not yet bought a 3D television, but will buy a 3D player, in the belief that this will help him watch the 3D discs - even tho he knows that he will only see it in 2D.

Being able to buy the 3D release ahead of the other formats is MUCH smarter. No one is offended, and the 3D buyers will feel that they have been rewarded for their support, not the other way around.

Furthermore, those who have not yet bought into the 3D format will see a real reason to start buying the 3D discs instead of the regular 2D version later on.

And with a library building, they will upgrade to 3D hardware much sooner than not.

PLUS, you are guaranteed that they will buy the movie, instead of renting it, while at the same time helping to ensure the penetration, and ultimately the success, of the Bluray 3D format.

Surely I'm not the only one who can see the upside of pushing your premium format out a little earlier?

You seem to forget the nature of the Hollywood studios. They think short term results. The quick buck. The adoption rate of 3DTV has not been as successful as they and the CEMs had hoped. 3D BD is a niche product today. Whether it stays that way remains to be seen.
post #90 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

You seem to forget the nature of the Hollywood studios. They think short term results. The quick buck. The adoption rate of 3DTV has not been as successful as they and the CEMs had hoped. 3D BD is a niche product today. Whether it stays that way remains to be seen.

Not sure what they expected - but it seems the hardware adoption is much faster than both HD and Blu-ray.
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