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What features would you like in your next Oppo BR - e.g. Oppo BDP-113 and BDP-115. - Page 8

post #211 of 560
2/5/12 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

While digital audio players have been suggested (no video), the concept of what you are asking is shown in the just released Pioneer N-50 ($699). Click on this large view of the N50 to see the display.

Certainly a small video screen is very appealing when you don't want to have a HDTV powered or use a small external display for this purpose.

Just clicked on it, you're right that is the idea. Too bad the Pioneer it just a file player and not capable of disc play. Take the current high end Oppo and add the video screen and I am sold....
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post #212 of 560
2/6/12 at 3:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoChe View Post

Exactly. I hate it when companies make compromises and reduce the quality of their products to try and satisfy the Walmart crowd. If you think Oppo players are too expensive at $500, go buy something else. I'd rather Oppo produce the best possible products they can at the $500 price point. And quite honestly, at $500, I think the Oppo 93 is a pretty dang good deal.

I dont feel like "the Walmart crowd", but I feel that my requests and needs are just as valid as yours. I unwrapped my new OPPO 93 this weekend.

I like products that dont try to be a swiss army knife, but do one or a few related things very well. I now have web-browsers in just about every box in my rack and none will ever be used, except that in my HTPC. I think that high-quality optical disk audio/video playback and streaming of audio/video from a local server/NAS are sufficiently related that it makes sense to do them in one gadget. Especially by folks that seem to be able to treat 24p, BT601, DSD and other subtleties in a technically sound fashion. I think that people having analog CRT-based displays and analog input-only amplifiers are increasingly rare, and that it would make sense to cut on those features in a mainstream product.

If those things can be done at a $300 price point, I would rather see the product at $300, than trying to solve every problem in the world at $500. If there is enough of a market, I would be okay with splitting the product line, but hoping that the $300 product would still have the excellent audio/video quality.

-k
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post #213 of 560
2/6/12 at 9:33am
Improvements are desperately needed to the RS-232 protocol:


1 - There should be a command to force a status update. Currently, the status updates are all unsolicited.

2 - Discrete RS-232 functions to control the streaming services. This is currently DOA - completely.

3 - More discrete RS-232 codes for functions such as display intensity. Currently, the font panel display intensity can be cycled through, but a specific intensity (ie. medium illumination) cannot be selected through RS-232. This is important if you track your equipment illumination with room lighting.

4 - As the 93/95 evolved and features were added (see #2), the RS-232 protocol was untouched. The protocol should have tracked the current state of the software.

5 - IP control. The 93/95 has an Ethernet port, why can't I use this for control?
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post #214 of 560
2/6/12 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by knutinh View Post

I think that people having analog CRT-based displays and analog input-only amplifiers are increasingly rare, and that it would make sense to cut on those features in a mainstream product.

While CRT based displays are increasing rare, the market place for analog input only amplifiers is still quite healthy, with stores that cater to this part of the market all over. If it wasn't do you think that Oppo would still be selling the BDP-95?
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post #215 of 560
2/6/12 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Looking back at what consumers demanded the BDP-80 did not sell as well as the BDP-83 and the BDP-83SE did. The BDP-83 was replaced with the BDP-93 for the same $499 which offered a lot of new abilities. While the $899 BDP-83SE was replaced with clearly superior $999 BDP-95. As rdgrimes pointed out even though the BDP-80 was a cheaper model, that's not what customers wanted from Oppo.

Given that people now expect even more features from future Oppo players, limiting a vendor to design a player for a set price range is not a good idea.

So what happened to all those people who bought the $150-200 Oppo DVD players? They probably either:
a) changed to a different manufacture
b) are still waiting for a $150-200 Oppo BD player
c) bought the $500+ Oppo BD players
d) skipped BD and went straight to media streaming
e) stayed with DVD
Oppo loses in 4 out of the above 5 scenarios.

I suspect that the BDP-80 did not sell well because it was still too expensive (at $300) for the crowd that bought into the $150-200 Oppo DVD players. At the same time, its feature set didn't appeal to the early adapters who were the main market when the BDP-80 was released.

Mass market BD players are hitting the $100-150 price range now. Putting a product at twice the mass market price ($200-300) while maintain the high quality that Oppo is known for is not an unreasonable ask. The numerous requests for the lower cost players in this thread indicate that there are interests. And as I stated previously, it's up to Oppo whether they want to do this. They certainly did it in the DVD days. The 983 was the 1st player sold at $400 price range and was the last DVD model introduced.
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post #216 of 560
2/6/12 at 9:52am
Quote:


d) skipped BD and went straight to media streaming

Is this even feasible?

In the US at least streaming services can't even begin to touch the quality of BR.
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post #217 of 560
2/6/12 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

While CRT based displays are increasing rare, the market place for analog input only amplifiers is still quite healthy, with stores that cater to this part of the market all over. If it wasn't do you think that Oppo would still be selling the BDP-95?

When I said "mainstream" I thought more about a future OPPO 93 than a future OPPO 95. Where I live an OPPO 93 costs about $1100 with bluray zone unlocked. That is a considerable sum, and more than mid-range Japanese ones. If a future model could deliver the same Bluray/DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-A audio/video quality over HDMI for $600-$700, it would open up to many users that will not consider it due to price today. Most of those users have only HDMI cables connecting BD-source, game console and cable/sat connected directly to their flatscreen or their receiver.

My guess is that the 95 does not sell a lot compared to the big ones out there. That is ok, OPPO fills a niche that Sony and friends seems to have neglected for years (good engineering spec, wide format support, good customer support, long life-span via software updates, not too much audiophile nonsense like carbon fibre nano particle chassis).

What I am suggesting is merely that OPPO take what they are doing today one step further: a 93+ for the average videophile, a 95+ for the analog-connected audio/video-phile.

-k
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post #218 of 560
2/6/12 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eecubed View Post

So what happened to all those people who bought the $150-200 Oppo DVD players? They probably either:
a) changed to a different manufacture
b) are still waiting for a $150-200 Oppo BD player
c) bought the $500+ Oppo BD players
d) skipped BD and went straight to media streaming
e) stayed with DVD
Oppo loses in 4 out of the above 5 scenarios.

I suspect that the BDP-80 did not sell well because it was still too expensive (at $300) for the crowd that bought into the $150-200 Oppo DVD players. At the same time, its feature set didn't appeal to the early adapters who were the main market when the BDP-80 was released.

Mass market BD players are hitting the $100-150 price range now. Putting a product at twice the mass market price ($200-300) while maintain the high quality that Oppo is known for is not an unreasonable ask. The numerous requests for the lower cost players in this thread indicate that there are interests. And as I stated previously, it's up to Oppo whether they want to do this. They certainly did it in the DVD days. The 983 was the 1st player sold at $400 price range and was the last DVD model introduced.

The BDP-80 didn't sell well because most consumers wanted the BDP-83 that offered ABT 2010 video processing with additional picture adjustment capabilities over the MKT SOC based BDP-80. The earlier DV-983 used the same ABT2010 video processor and cost $399 versus the cheaper $169 MKT SOC DV-980. In both cases the MKT SOC based models lost to the player using high quality video processing. When Oppo came out with the BDP-93 they literally incorporated a wish list of everything people asked for the same selling price, which I think is amazing, considering how future proof the player is.

a) consumers buy what they perceive is good value, not necessary going with same vendor.
b) I strongly doubt it
c) A lot did
d) A lot of people use streaming to suppliment their video habits, or to save money. Streaming was never competition to BD's, only SD's.
e) Highly doubtful, BD is mainstream now, considering how cheap you can buy a BD player.
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post #219 of 560
2/6/12 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

While CRT based displays are increasing rare, the market place for analog input only amplifiers is still quite healthy, with stores that cater to this part of the market all over. If it wasn't do you think that Oppo would still be selling the BDP-95?

Completely agreed. One could make the case that those who listen to (analog) vinyl LP and tape are the top of the market. For CD listening (except SACD), I find I prefer the analog outputs. I would be mighty upset if OPPO eliminated them on a future model. Personally, I only need the stereo analog, not the multichannel analog, but I understand the people who would want to keep those as well.

But if they wanted to eliminate the composite and component video outs, I would have no problem.
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post #220 of 560
2/6/12 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Completely agreed. One could make the case that those who listen to (analog) vinyl LP and tape are the top of the market. For CD listening (except SACD), I find I prefer the analog outputs. I would be mighty upset if OPPO eliminated them on a future model. Personally, I only need the stereo analog, not the multichannel analog, but I understand the people who would want to keep those as well.

But if they wanted to eliminate the composite and component video outs, I would have no problem.

There are quite a few large CRT-based HDTV owners out there who would strenuously disagree with you. Considering no flat panel technology in existence (with the possible exception of OLED, which hasn't shipped in reasonable screen sizes yet) can compare with the picture of a properly calibrated CRT, many serious videophiles are still waiting for something that can replace their TVs without being a downgrade, and thus still need those analog outputs.

That said, the HD Fury, which converts HDMI to Component, takes care of the worst of the issues, here.
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post #221 of 560
2/6/12 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

There are quite a few large CRT-based HDTV owners out there who would strenuously disagree with you. Considering no flat panel technology in existence (with the possible exception of OLED, which hasn't shipped in reasonable screen sizes yet) can compare with the picture of a properly calibrated CRT, many serious videophiles are still waiting for something that can replace their TVs without being a downgrade, and thus still need those analog outputs.

That said, the HD Fury, which converts HDMI to Component, takes care of the worst of the issues, here.

The new AACS licensing rules doom component video. No Blu-ray allowed in the future. A player could retain it for DVD; is it worth it?

-Bill
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post #222 of 560
2/6/12 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The new AACS licensing rules doom component video. No Blu-ray allowed in the future. A player could retain it for DVD; is it worth it?

-Bill

That's true, I guess we're talking about future models (this being the next Oppo BR player thread) which have to comply. Glad I hung onto my older BR that still does perfect 1080i out of Component!

(Although my wife is making me go flat panel regardless, so my CRT will be retired soon anyway, making it irrelevant for me anyway.)
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post #223 of 560
2/7/12 at 12:09am
I'm a CRT PJ user 100%.

That said, anyone who is really hardcore into analog video (CRT) is retaining a digital video chain until the display, and employing some type of cheater/cracker box to do the D/A (either as an internal PJ expansion card or external "black box").

Anyone NOT rolling like this is most likely NOT a person who would own a BDP-93/95 combined with a CRT PJ in the first place (the CRT owner would already have to do a format conversion and it might as well be a single D/A).

Just MHO.
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post #224 of 560
2/8/12 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eecubed View Post

Streaming media

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axatax View Post

Is this even feasible?

In the US at least streaming services can't even begin to touch the quality of BR.

You can stream HD content from the Internet. The quality won't be as good as BD.

However, if you rip your BD to your hard drives, you can stream from your local LAN and the quality can be as good as you want. There are also numerous sources for 192kHz/24 bit music if you are into that.
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post #225 of 560
2/8/12 at 3:02pm
Add the ability to play 2 blu ray movies at the same time to compare picture quality, side by side screens, top & bottom screens. Done by 2 internal blu ray trays and external blu ray players like this http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...rives/BDR-XD04 and extra usb ports to power it thanks
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post #226 of 560
2/13/12 at 12:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

Add the ability to play 2 blu ray movies at the same time to compare picture quality, side by side screens, top & bottom screens. Done by 2 internal blu ray trays and external blu ray players like this http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...rives/BDR-XD04 and extra usb ports to power it thanks

I'm thinking that would be handled by getting two BR players.
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post #227 of 560
2/13/12 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

I'm thinking that would be handled by getting two BR players.

Two Blu ray players can not show up on one display? or...
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post #228 of 560
2/13/12 at 3:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

Two Blu ray players can not show up on one display? or...

Plenty support multiple sources. I can watch a movie and a football game on my 8 year old TV.
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post #229 of 560
2/13/12 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Plenty support multiple sources. I can watch a movie and a football game on my 8 year old TV.

That's picture in picture
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post #230 of 560
2/19/12 at 10:12am
Thread Starter 
I'm going to mention one more time along with the need to improve the remote control reception they really need to improve the wifi reception on this unit. I frequently have to restart my oppo as it will hang mid playback and then can't find wireless - but my laptop, ipad, and android phone all can connect with no issue. I get better streaming on my laptop at twice the distance in another room behind a wall than I get with my oppo.

I was having wretched choppy playback today and finally just ran a long cable across my living room and voila - perfect playback. Also helps a lot with fast forward, chapter skip and most noticeably on rewind.

I love my Oppo and recommend them but they really do need to up the quality on some components - I'll gladly pay $50 more for a player that can use wifi reliably.

I'm looking into getting a solution to pull wireless from my main unit and output ethernet to the oppo to get around the issue - I guess my point is, it would be nice if Oppo used better wifi so I didn't have to implement a less elegant solution.
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post #231 of 560
2/19/12 at 1:01pm
^ What "signal strength" does the Oppo report in Setup > Network Setup > Connection Information?

Have you tried repositioning the Wifi dongle to get better signal strength? That's what the USB extension cable that comes with the 93/95 player is for.

The Oppo 93/95 uses the 2.4GHz Wifi band. Your other devices may be using 5GHz band, or you may have a nearby source of 2.4GHz interference. Poorly shielded microwave ovens are particularly notorious for this. Of course they only produce interference while they are running (e.g., making popcorn). You also may have interference from Wifi setups used by your neighbors, which may be more active during your movie watching hours.

The usual way to tackle interference is to go into your Wifi base station and change the channel it is using -- in this case for its 2.4GHz band in case you have a dual band Wifi base station. Client side devices should automatically change to track the channel being used by the base station. That's how the Oppo will do it. Your base station may be set to select a channel automatically, but that may not be the best choice for good signal level and freedom from interference to where the Oppo is located. Sometimes it is just a guessing game as to which of the 11 possible channels will work best.
--Bob
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post #232 of 560
2/19/12 at 2:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ What "signal strength" does the Oppo report in Setup > Network Setup > Connection Information?

Have you tried repositioning the Wifi dongle to get better signal strength? That's what the USB extension cable that comes with the 93/95 player is for.

The Oppo 93/95 uses the 2.4GHz Wifi band. Your other devices may be using 5GHz band, or you may have a nearby source of 2.4GHz interference. Poorly shielded microwave ovens are particularly notorious for this. Of course they only produce interference while they are running (e.g., making popcorn). You also may have interference from Wifi setups used by your neighbors, which may be more active during your movie watching hours.

The usual way to tackle interference is to go into your Wifi base station and change the channel it is using -- in this case for its 2.4GHz band in case you have a dual band Wifi base station. Client side devices should automatically change to track the channel being used by the base station. That's how the Oppo will do it. Your base station may be set to select a channel automatically, but that may not be the best choice for good signal level and freedom from interference to where the Oppo is located. Sometimes it is just a guessing game as to which of the 11 possible channels will work best.
--Bob


Thanks - I've tried changing my chanels and power levels on my wifi router - no luck. I've set them for fixed and variable no luck. I think the point is while I can do things to tweak it, I don't need to do anything for my phone, ipad and laptop don't suffer those issues and yet my Oppo does. I have put my phone right on top of my Oppo and it streams no problem - my Oppo is not encased in a lead box. My Oppo is only about 20' from my router. My bedroom is about 40' and behind a wall and yet I get perfectly good reception in there as well. If I had a laptop with an integrated wireless this bad, I'd put in a wireless card on it. I'm buying a bridge unit to get around the weakness of the Oppo and I promise you I won't have to do any tweaking so what I'm saying is that if Oppo put better wifi receivers in their players, this wouldn't be necessary.

I'm not putting Oppo down - love their BR players- I am however saying this is a significant issue for improvement on their next BR players. I know to professional AV install companies and both run network wires to the Oppos because of the weak wireless units. They said they don't run wires for the Samsung or Sony's.
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post #233 of 560
2/19/12 at 2:37pm
The thing is, I know the Wifi works in the Oppo as is. So there's something unusual about your situation. Perhaps you have a faulty Wifi dongle?

Anyway, wrong thread to diagnose this stuff.
--Bob
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post #234 of 560
2/19/12 at 3:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The thing is, I know the Wifi works in the Oppo as is. So there's something unusual about your situation. Perhaps you have a faulty Wifi dongle?

Anyway, wrong thread to diagnose this stuff.
--Bob


So it is something to do with my Oppo and every oppo the two AV companies I work with happen to have? If it was just mine I'd say yes but considering these two comapnies have installed over 30 Oppos and always run a network cable because of the wifi the units they happen to receive is a HUGE coincidence. These companies don't work with eachother but they both follow hard wire practice for the Oppos. One company also sell Samsung equipment and they don't hardwire them, the other sells Sony and they don't hardwire them (in most cases). While I'm sure you know a great deal about AV equipment, I do know quite a bit about wireless networks. It might also interest you to know I work with a computer consulting company that specializes in AV production equipment and he has an Oppo at home and he also decided to bridge the unit because the built in wireless didn't work well.

I agree this is the wrong thread for diagnosis. I do however think this is a good thread for those wanting something improved on the next model to suggest what could be improved.
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post #235 of 560
2/19/12 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

So it is something to do with my Oppo and every oppo the two AV companies I work with happen to have? If it was just mine I'd say yes but considering these two comapnies have installed over 30 Oppos and always run a network cable because of the wifi the units they happen to receive is a HUGE coincidence.

I agree this is the wrong thread for diagnosis. I do however think this is a good thread for those wanting something improved on the next model to suggest what could be improved.

do you own a 120 refresh tv set?

Jacob
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post #236 of 560
2/19/12 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
I own a CRT RPTV on which the Oppo displays an excellent image. I don't do much in the way of set up of AV equipment. I set up networks, servers, workstations etc.
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post #237 of 560
2/19/12 at 3:26pm
I never really had a problem with the wireless internet with the oppo. I do remember having problems with the 120 refresh rate tv and the player. now I own a plasma and that problem went away.

Jacob
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post #238 of 560
2/19/12 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

So it is something to do with my Oppo and every oppo the two AV companies I work with happen to have? If it was just mine I'd say yes but considering these two comapnies have installed over 30 Oppos and always run a network cable because of the wifi the units they happen to receive is a HUGE coincidence. These companies don't work with eachother but they both follow hard wire practice for the Oppos. One company also sell Samsung equipment and they don't hardwire them, the other sells Sony and they don't hardwire them (in most cases). While I'm sure you know a great deal about AV equipment, I do know quite a bit about wireless networks. It might also interest you to know I work with a computer consulting company that specializes in AV production equipment and he has an Oppo at home and he also decided to bridge the unit because the built in wireless didn't work well.

I agree this is the wrong thread for diagnosis. I do however think this is a good thread for those wanting something improved on the next model to suggest what could be improved.

OK, I can see why you feel so strongly about this. On my side I use Wifi in my 93 all the time without problem, and I know that Wifi performance has not been an issue of concern in the Beta Test group -- not a bunch known to be particularly shy about complaining.

It would be great if we could nail down why you and the people you are working with are having this problem, if for no other reason than that it's easier for Oppo to improve it if we can tell them what's wrong.

Have you spotted any common factors other than the Oppo itself in the setups you've mentioned?

Oppo uses an off the shelf Wifi dongle just pre-configured with the driver in the player.
--Bob
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post #239 of 560
2/19/12 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

OK, I can see why you feel so strongly about this. On my side I use Wifi in my 93 all the time without problem, and I know that Wifi performance has not been an issue of concern in the Beta Test group -- not a bunch known to be particularly shy about complaining.

Well, I haven't complained because I've got mine hardwired . Since I have an iPad, I've got an Apple AirPort extreme, but it's on top of the rack the Oppo is in (4' away, tops), so I'd be shocked if I had trouble getting a reliable signal. I'm not a big fan of wireless in general because there's just too much that can go wrong. As a rule, I hardwire things whenever possible and I'm surprised to hear that some custom install companies wouldn't hardwire as the rule (except for when running wires is especially difficult) to minimize potential problems.
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post #240 of 560
2/19/12 at 4:02pm
^ Sure, hardwiring is the obvious thing to do if it is practical. Lots of things can affect Wifi, so why chance it if you have the option?

I have the option to hardware, but use Wifi instead specifically to give it a testing workout.

As I said, if there's a systemic problem with the Wifi implementation it's news to me.
--Bob
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