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What features would you like in your next Oppo BR - e.g. Oppo BDP-113 and BDP-115. - Page 20

post #571 of 910
^ That's going to be a tough sell, since the inherent quantization noise in DSD -- pushed up above 20KHz *AND MAGNIFIED* by "noise shaping" in the format -- is patently obvious if you scope the outputs. The bottom line is that DSD as used on SACD is not really a good format for reproducing frequencies that high up. Giving people an option to produce output OPPO can measure as worse would be a pretty sad, marketing "check off" item.
--Bob
post #572 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ That's going to be a tough sell, since the inherent quantization noise in DSD -- pushed up above 20KHz *AND MAGNIFIED* by "noise shaping" in the format -- is patently obvious if you scope the outputs. The bottom line is that DSD as used on SACD is not really a good format for reproducing frequencies that high up. Giving people an option to produce output OPPO can measure as worse would be a pretty sad, marketing "check off" item.
--Bob

+1. A higher number doesn't always mean better.smile.gif
post #573 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ That's going to be a tough sell, since the inherent quantization noise in DSD -- pushed up above 20KHz *AND MAGNIFIED* by "noise shaping" in the format -- is patently obvious if you scope the outputs. The bottom line is that DSD as used on SACD is not really a good format for reproducing frequencies that high up. Giving people an option to produce output OPPO can measure as worse would be a pretty sad, marketing "check off" item.
--Bob

+1. A higher number doesn't always mean better.smile.gif
My concern is whether we are losing good overtones by filtering out the unwanted sound. With visual material, when we turn up noise reduction, while we might be getting rid of compression artifacts in the picture, some people believe that applying such a filter also takes away detail. Isn't this DSD filter the same when it comes to sound? Also, didn't Denon give us the option to switch the DSD filter on and off over a few generations of DVD/DVD-AUDIO/SACD players?
post #574 of 910
^ Sure, for the reason that people don't understand WHY the filter is used, and of course there's always going to be a group that assumes the higher sample rate must be better. So why not make them happy and include it even if it is not a good idea to use it? That's a classic marketing "check off" item. I.e., can't lose sales because competitor A allows 176.4KHz and we don't, even if people SHOULDN'T use it.

The hardware in the 103/105 is capable of using 176.4KHz for this, but after measuring the output, OPPO felt they could not, in good conscience, use it in the product.

Even included as an option, there's no reasonable way to make it clear in the Manual why it would be a bad idea to use it. I mean if it's so bad, why is it in there in the first place?

Hey, I certainly understand your desire to want to be able to experiment and judge for YOURSELF. And the fact that some other manufacturers have acquiesced to this just adds to that.

But OPPO decided to trust what they were seeing in their own bench tests.



Anyway, OPPO certainly understands there is interest in adding this as an option. You've also got things like DVD 24p Conversion and 2D->3D Conversion which are problematic, but now part of the players.

So maybe it WILL be included in a future player! Which after all is what this thread is about.

Just understand that there is a deliberate decision at work to not include it now -- backed up by OPPO's own bench tests. So as I said up above, it will be a tough sell.
--Bob
post #575 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Sure, for the reason that people don't understand WHY the filter is used, and of course there's always going to be a group that assumes the higher sample rate must be better. So why not make them happy and include it even if it is not a good idea to use it? That's a classic marketing "check off" item. I.e., can't lose sales because competitor A allows 176.4KHz and we don't, even if people SHOULDN'T use it.

The hardware in the 103/105 is capable of using 176.4KHz for this, but after measuring the output, OPPO felt they could not, in good conscience, use it in the product.

Even included as an option, there's no reasonable way to make it clear in the Manual why it would be a bad idea to use it. I mean if it's so bad, why is it in there in the first place?

Hey, I certainly understand your desire to want to be able to experiment and judge for YOURSELF. And the fact that some other manufacturers have acquiesced to this just adds to that.

But OPPO decided to trust what they were seeing in their own bench tests.



Anyway, OPPO certainly understands there is interest in adding this as an option. You've also got things like DVD 24p Conversion and 2D->3D Conversion which are problematic, but now part of the players.

So maybe it WILL be included in a future player! Which after all is what this thread is about.

Just understand that there is a deliberate decision at work to not include it now -- backed up by OPPO's own bench tests. So as I said up above, it will be a tough sell.
--Bob
OK then. Assuming this thread was created by Oppo, let me put in a feature request for their next player. For the BDP-113 and BDP-115, I would like some additional SACD playback options added. I would like an option that gives us the choice to enable or disable the DSD-to-analog 50 KHz cutoff filter. Also, I would like to have DSD-to-PCM conversion choices of 88.2 KHz and 176.4 KHz. If you do this, then your players will be as versatile for audio as they are for video. Then other manufacturers would have an even more difficult time competing against you!
post #576 of 910
Actually the thread starter is "boe". OPPO doesn't need to encourage people to give them suggestions. It just happens naturally! biggrin.gif
--Bob
post #577 of 910
Yes we just want to make the players better!
post #578 of 910
In addition to the BDP-113 and BDP-115, I think Oppo should add a BDP-110. The purpose of this model would to eliminate expensive extras such as Marvel QDEO video processing, HDMI/MHL, Coaxial, and Optical inputs, Composite Video, S-video, Component Video, stereo analog, and multi-channel analog outputs, while including the two HDMI, Coaxial, and Optical outputs, USB ports, and the rest of the features and functionality of the BDP-113 and BDP-115. If possible, please add YCbCr4:2:0 color space output. It would be cool if you obtain licenses from Denon, Pioneer, and Sony to add jitter reduction when used with respective receivers via HDMI to add features such as DenonLink, Pioneer's PQLS, and Sony's jitter reduction technology (I forget what it's called). Please consider native DSD, DSD-to-PCM at 88.2 KHz and 176.4 KHz. By omitting all extra video processing and analog circuitry, this would allow inthuziasts with excellent external audio/video preamps, processers, amplifiers, and receivers to save money on a great transport.
Edited by Big C - 7/31/13 at 7:27am
post #579 of 910
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

It would be cool if you obtain licenses from Denon, Pioneer, and Sony to add jitter reduction when used with respective receivers via HDMI to add features such as DenonLink, Pioneer's PQLS, and Sony's jitter reduction technology (I forget what it's called). By omitting all extra video processing and analog circuitry, this would allow inthuziasts with excellent external audio/video preamps, processers, amplifiers, and receivers to save money on a great transport.

Wouldn't the licensing increase the costs? In addition, I change out my BR player every couple of years and my prepro every 8-10 years - my processing on my BR player would probably be far more current than my old prepro.
post #580 of 910
Without reading this entire forum, add file management for the USB attached hard drive. Perhaps partner with JRiver and add some processing to handle it. Perhaps make 117 and 119 versions that have that server like capabilities.
post #581 of 910
Hi everbody
Does anyone have any idea when the 115 is coming out? Im thinking of getting the 105 but will wait if the 115 is coming out in the near future.

thanks

Rob
post #582 of 910
There have been no public hints from OPPO in that regard. Based on their recent life cycle for players the expectation would probably be some time next year, but whether early or late next year would be just a guess.
--Bob
post #583 of 910
Going off of Oppo's prior release schedules, probably end of 2014.

S~
post #584 of 910
Hi
Thanks for the replies! Time to research the 105!

Rob
post #585 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

In addition to the BDP-113 and BDP-115, I think Oppo should add a BDP-110. The purpose of this model would to eliminate expensive extras such as Marvel QDEO video processing, HDMI/MHL, Coaxial, and Optical inputs, Composite Video, S-video, Component Video, stereo analog, and multi-channel analog outputs, while including the two HDMI, Coaxial, and Optical outputs, USB ports, and the rest of the features and functionality of the BDP-113 and BDP-115. If possible, please add YCbCr4:2:0 color space output. It would be cool if you obtain licenses from Denon, Pioneer, and Sony to add jitter reduction when used with respective receivers via HDMI to add features such as DenonLink, Pioneer's PQLS, and Sony's jitter reduction technology (I forget what it's called). Please consider native DSD, DSD-to-PCM at 88.2 KHz and 176.4 KHz. By omitting all extra video processing and analog circuitry, this would allow inthuziasts with excellent external audio/video preamps, processers, amplifiers, and receivers to save money on a great transport.
Seems to me if you delete the high-end video processing and analog audio, you may as well buy a cheap player. I bought the 105 specifically for the analog audio.
post #586 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

It would be cool if you obtain licenses from Denon, Pioneer, and Sony to add jitter reduction when used with respective receivers via HDMI to add features such as DenonLink, Pioneer's PQLS, and Sony's jitter reduction technology (I forget what it's called).
Even if Oppo wanted to do this, I think it's extremely unlikely that those companies would even consider licensing those jitter reduction features to any other company as that would take away their exclusive features and eat into their sales.
post #587 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

It would be cool if you obtain licenses from Denon, Pioneer, and Sony to add jitter reduction when used with respective receivers via HDMI to add features such as DenonLink, Pioneer's PQLS, and Sony's jitter reduction technology (I forget what it's called). By omitting all extra video processing and analog circuitry, this would allow inthuziasts with excellent external audio/video preamps, processers, amplifiers, and receivers to save money on a great transport.

Wouldn't the licensing increase the costs? In addition, I change out my BR player every couple of years and my prepro every 8-10 years - my processing on my BR player would probably be far more current than my old prepro.
So are you saying that you'd pay between $500-$1,000 every year or two on a player? To me, as long as your preamp, video processor, or receiver has all the good stuff, such as Marvell QDEO, ESS DACs, and can accept at least PCM, and DSD if possible, I can't see a need. In fact, if you have an HDMI 1.0 or 1.1 receiver, bitstreaming isn't necessary if you let the player decode all the HD codecs. Yamaha even mensions low-jitter in their receivers. Do they mean only when using a Yamaha player? If not, then Yamaha's exclusive built-in jitter-reduction technology wouldn't require a player to have it.
post #588 of 910
I wonder how many people could actually hear the jitter if they were not allowed to see the equipment or how its connected sometimes specs can lead us on and make us think we hear a difference good or bad I have been guilty but try to be more honest with myself here lately.
post #589 of 910
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

So are you saying that you'd pay between $500-$1,000 every year or two on a player? To me, as long as your preamp, video processor, or receiver has all the good stuff, such as Marvell QDEO, ESS DACs, and can accept at least PCM, and DSD if possible, I can't see a need. In fact, if you have an HDMI 1.0 or 1.1 receiver, bitstreaming isn't necessary if you let the player decode all the HD codecs. Yamaha even mensions low-jitter in their receivers. Do they mean only when using a Yamaha player? If not, then Yamaha's exclusive built-in jitter-reduction technology wouldn't require a player to have it.

Hello,

Yes, I buy a new BR player every couple of years if there is enough to justify it. My prepro has good stuff in it and I'd prefer not to spend $4000 every 2 years to keep it up to date. A BR player updated every couple of years is a much cheaper solution. I had a Yamaha receiver - worst financial mistake I made in MANY years - what a complete POS. I gave it away to a friend who needed a prepro. I couldn't even charge him for it as 1 he a was a friend and 2 IMHO it wasn't worth ANYTHING.
post #590 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Hello, Yes, I buy a new BR player every couple of years if there is enough to justify it. My prepro has good stuff in it and I'd prefer not to spend $4000 every 2 years to keep it up to date. A BR player updated every couple of years is a much cheaper solution. I had a Yamaha receiver - worst financial mistake I made in MANY years - what a complete POS. I gave it away to a friend who needed a prepro. I couldn't even charge him for it as 1 he a was a friend and 2 IMHO it wasn't worth ANYTHING.

I agree I do the same replace the Oppo every two years and keep the Classe Pre/Pro for at least 7 - 10 years:)
post #591 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

So are you saying that you'd pay between $500-$1,000 every year or two on a player? To me, as long as your preamp, video processor, or receiver has all the good stuff, such as Marvell QDEO, ESS DACs, and can accept at least PCM, and DSD if possible, I can't see a need. In fact, if you have an HDMI 1.0 or 1.1 receiver, bitstreaming isn't necessary if you let the player decode all the HD codecs. Yamaha even mensions low-jitter in their receivers. Do they mean only when using a Yamaha player? If not, then Yamaha's exclusive built-in jitter-reduction technology wouldn't require a player to have it.

Hello,

Yes, I buy a new BR player every couple of years if there is enough to justify it. My prepro has good stuff in it and I'd prefer not to spend $4000 every 2 years to keep it up to date. A BR player updated every couple of years is a much cheaper solution. I had a Yamaha receiver - worst financial mistake I made in MANY years - what a complete POS. I gave it away to a friend who needed a prepro. I couldn't even charge him for it as 1 he a was a friend and 2 IMHO it wasn't worth ANYTHING.
Are you saying that you'd spend between $500-$1,000 on a Blu-ray player every couple of years, or would you rather spend $150-$300 on a good digital transport?
post #592 of 910
Thread Starter 
I'd love for all my equipment to be state of the art forever and it to cost 39 cents. The reality is that a very good BR player with great video processing costs $500. They become somewhat dated every couple of years. A good prepro is about 10x the cost of a good BR player. Fortunately they don't become terribly dated as quickly as BR players. Furthermore I put my Oppo 93 on craigslist for $400 and sold it that same day. So in effect, due to logical planning, I essentially "rented" a top of the line BR player for two years at a cost of about $60 per year. I can live with that paradigm (any inference of the trademark name of Paradigm Electronics, ltd. is purely coincidental, see your doctor before purchasing any new equipment, pupil dilatation and dry mouth are known side effects).
Edited by boe - 8/2/13 at 9:19pm
post #593 of 910
Here are a few features I'd like to see on the next generation Oppo Blu-Ray player:

1. Direct digital input for iPod/iPhone/iPad
2. DTS Headphone X or some other form of surround sound through headphone processing (ideally, Oppo could license the technology used in the Smyth Realizer, but I suspect that would be prohibitively expensive)
3. Audyssey MulitEQ, Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ, so that the player can also function as a full fledged surround processor (and Oppo can introduce a compact multichannel amplifier in a matching chassis).
Edited by dolstein - 8/4/13 at 1:23am
post #594 of 910
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolstein View Post

Here are a few features I'd like to see on the next generation Oppo Blu-Ray player:

1. Direct digital input for iPod/iPhone/iPad
2. DTS Headphone X or some other form of surround sound through headphone processing (ideally, Oppo could license the technology used in the Smyth Realizer, but I suspect that would be prohibitively expensive)
3. Audyssey MulitEQ, Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ, so that the player can also function as a full fledged surround processor (and Oppo can introduce a compact multichannel amplifier in a matching chassis).

So you'd like about a dozen XLR outputs, a dozen RCA outputs, a dozen rca inputs, a nice big volume control, a more detailed display, audessey and DTS headphones making the unit cost about $2,500? (sure they could make it for less and everyone would complain about how Oppo sold its soul and put in cheap components to pander to walmart mouth breathers). Might as well have them throw in a smart remote, satellite and HD radio and a state of the art gaming HTPC with a DVR. Wouldn't you rather Oppo just make a great prepro that matches the quality of their optical player so you can upgrade your BR player every couple of years and your prepro far less often to keep costs down while affording you the opportunity to maintain a HT system with the most current technology and highest quality?
Edited by boe - 8/4/13 at 9:46am
post #595 of 910
I'll get the next BDP if it has a built-in wifi connection (right now i'm using the 93 and i love it but I don't like using a usb wifi dongle for it) and the wifi has to have dualband capabilities as well because I live in a neighborhood that has an abundance of 2.4ghz networks mainly because there are alot of university students that live around here whereas I seem to be the only one within my scanning range to have a 5ghz network. I would also love to see faster and smoother DLNA capabilities because my 93 can be pretty sluggish when I access the folders on my PC to watch movies, trailers, etc. What i mean by sluggish is that I get too much pausing when I try to scroll down the listings or even get a pausing when i attempt to select the video.
post #596 of 910
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dogg View Post

I'll get the next BDP if it has a built-in wifi connection (right now i'm using the 93 and i love it but I don't like using a usb wifi dongle for it) and the wifi has to have dualband capabilities as well because I live in a neighborhood that has an abundance of 2.4ghz networks mainly because there are alot of university students that live around here whereas I seem to be the only one within my scanning range to have a 5ghz network. I would also love to see faster and smoother DLNA capabilities because my 93 can be pretty sluggish when I access the folders on my PC to watch movies, trailers, etc. What i mean by sluggish is that I get too much pausing when I try to scroll down the listings or even get a pausing when i attempt to select the video.

I agree that the wireless on the 93 and even the 103 isn't great. I ended up just putting in an airport express as a repeater and connecting it via RJ45 to my wireless repeater. While there are many excuses given why the oppo wireless is in the wrong position or blocked or something else, the airport express is in the EXACT same spot I tried the Oppo wireless dongle via usb cable and it was choppy as sin while the airport express was very smooth. Hopefully with the next version they'll select a new wifi manufacturing company and include 802.11ac.
post #597 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolstein View Post

Here are a few features I'd like to see on the next generation Oppo Blu-Ray player:

1. Direct digital input for iPod/iPhone/iPad
That would be a big plus. I currently use my IPod Classic with my 80.3 and it works quite well, all recorded in lossless.
post #598 of 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dolstein View Post

So you'd like about a dozen XLR outputs, a dozen RCA outputs, a dozen rca inputs, a nice big volume control, a more detailed display, audessey and DTS headphones making the unit cost about $2,500? (sure they could make it for less and everyone would complain about how Oppo sold its soul and put in cheap components to pander to walmart mouth breathers). Might as well have them throw in a smart remote, satellite and HD radio and a state of the art gaming HTPC with a DVR. Wouldn't you rather Oppo just make a great prepro that matches the quality of their optical player so you can upgrade your BR player every couple of years and your prepro far less often to keep costs down while affording you the opportunity to maintain a HT system with the most current technology and highest quality?

The Oppo already has all the outputs it needs. It even has a volume control. It also has digital inputs and HDMI inputs. I'm just saying that with a little more functionality, there's really no need for a separate processor. You can already hook the Oppo up to a multichannel amplifier, but adding room EQ and similar features would be a big plus.

I'm sure Oppo could come up with a great processor if they wanted to, but it would duplicate much of what the Oppo BDP already does.
post #599 of 910
OPPO already incorporate DIRAC in their phones, it could be easy for them to put in their Blu ray player, that would be fantastic

http://www.dirac.se/en/news-events/latest-news/oppo-find-5-smartphone-announced-with-dirac-hd-sound.aspx
post #600 of 910
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolstein View Post

The Oppo already has all the outputs it needs. It even has a volume control. It also has digital inputs and HDMI inputs. I'm just saying that with a little more functionality, there's really no need for a separate processor. You can already hook the Oppo up to a multichannel amplifier, but adding room EQ and similar features would be a big plus.

I'm sure Oppo could come up with a great processor if they wanted to, but it would duplicate much of what the Oppo BDP already does.

You must have a very different version of the 103 than I have. I'm having a very difficult time finding ANY XLR outputs on my 103.

This is the back of my 103


This is the back of my prepro


If you squint you might be able to make out some slight differences in the outputs of each.

This most of the info my 103 can display


This is some of the information my AVP can display


This is the volume control button on my Oppo


This is the volume control knob on my Denon


My preamp also has a switched output to allow me to control my amp power through my power conditioner.

The Denon has built in audyssey - the upgrade on that was VERY exensive for licensing so while there is a mark up, I'm sure Oppo would also mark up their Audyssey licensing so I'd like to limit the financial impact by paying for it on the item I upgrade the least frequently.

I'm all for a cheaper Preamp - trust me! I tried the Onkyo and wasted about $1000 on utter crap. The Denon is great but very expensive. I hope Oppo makes a GREAT prepro soon with HDMI 2.0 but I really don't want a $1500 BR player. I'd rather get a $500 BR player and a $1000 prepro.
Edited by boe - 8/6/13 at 9:52am
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