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post #361 of 388
That happens to the best of us but that is a new one on me, the software must be selling like hot cakes.
post #362 of 388
I finally got my Powerdirector. Long story but includes raising two tickets, one at cyberlink and one at digitalriver. Not able to download the product and then purchasing extended download service and found it still not working. Then canceled the entire order. Ordered again and finally downloaded. pffff

However in the full version the import of SBS FULL using mainconcept works. It asks you to activite the H264 plugin for 30 days. The trial verion couldn't import.
post #363 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by chang69 View Post

Not sure why but when I render Mainconcept AVC(1920x2160) using TB full then mp4 produced is not playable. PD10 doesn't recognize it and Windows media player cannot play it by default. I can only get the files playing when I install k-lite codec. However when I render 1920x1080 then the mp4 file is fine.

Despite installing k-lite PD10 doesn't see any content in the mp4 file?
It does import it, but the movie is black.

Anyone of you know why?


Current GPUs using DXVA (hardware acceleration) can't playback anything larger than 1920x1080. There's one nvidia GPU which can and that's the 520GT which is a low end card (supports 4K resolutions). Perhaps the new Radeon 7900 (the high end parts that is) can also play that back.

Windows Media Player and MPC-HC use hardware acceleration which is why the video doesn't play back. k-lite probably uses software decoding which is why it works.

If you disable HW acceleration in MPC-HC software decoding should be able to play it back.

The next gen Geforce cards (due out in April/May) should also be able to playback 4k (i.e. larger than 1920x1080) video.
post #364 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharangad View Post


Current GPUs using DXVA (hardware acceleration) can't playback anything larger than 1920x1080. There's one nvidia GPU which can and that's the 520GT which is a low end card (supports 4K resolutions). Perhaps the new Radeon 7900 (the high end parts that is) can also play that back.

Windows Media Player and MPC-HC use hardware acceleration which is why the video doesn't play back. k-lite probably uses software decoding which is why it works.

If you disable HW acceleration in MPC-HC software decoding should be able to play it back.

The next gen Geforce cards (due out in April/May) should also be able to playback 4k (i.e. larger than 1920x1080) video.

Thanks for the info. This is very helpfull.
post #365 of 388
Can PD10 use intel quicksync also when rendering 3D Bluray format?
If yes, is it faster than with CUDA?
post #366 of 388
I just got notified to upgrade to PowerDirector 12. Is there an advantage for 3D? I just bought 10 and haven't had a chance to use it yet.
post #367 of 388
PowerDVD 12 is what's new..
post #368 of 388
I think you're seeing PowerDVD 12. AFAIK, there's no PowerDirector 12 yet.
post #369 of 388
Doh! You're right. That said, will PowerDVD 12 play AVCHD 2.0?
post #370 of 388
I don't see anything about it on their site, so I'm guessing no. Don't know for sure, though. It says MVC 3D is supported. That alone would be worth the price of upgrade for me, but I'll wait to see if it's true. I'd love simply to click on the MP4 files from my JVC TD1 3D camcorder and have them play back in 3D on my displays.
post #371 of 388
Stereoscopic player cannot do this?
post #372 of 388
I think it can, but apparently there are issues getting it to play back smoothly with the JVC files.
post #373 of 388
Have been playing with PD 10 for 3D blu-ray production and have found it to be very limiting. First of all it does not produce a profile 5 blu-ray disc. It does infact produce an AVCHD version 2 3d disc. I have not found much info on this format other than not all 3D blu-ray players will play these discs so you need to check before you buy. Because this format is very simple it will not support such high bitrates as a profile 5 disc. The big difference with profile 5 is that it uses a ssif file which interleaves the base and dependent view with a maximum total bitrate of 60 Mb/s. Normally the dependent bitrate will be 50% of that of the base view.

This brings us to another limitation of PD10 in that the difference in bitrate of the Base and Dependent streams are very similar. This means that the quality achieved will be less than opimal.

Vegas produces a bitrate ratio of about 70% which is about the same as the TD10 produces. However vegas does produce Profile 5 discs but without menues.

PD 10 produces 3D discs with very low bitrates (about 15.5 Mb/s combined). One of my clips produces an increadable amount of blocking at this bitrate. There is a trick using SVRT for making 2D blu-ray discs with a custom bitrate but I have been unable to get this to work with 3D.

I suspect that Cyberlink did not go with profile 5 because of the licencing costs.

I would be gateful for other peoples views of all this.
post #374 of 388
trevor- It's the old pet peeve of mine that professional videographers in desire of professional features are desiring capability of pro products but feel they can't afford to pay the cost of a professional tool.

I believe Cyberlink made PD10 for consumers giving them the most important tools at a very low affordable consumer level price. It includes tools to build a nice menu structure that can be sold in the wedding and event markets, but not for major Hollywood productions. So what's the difference? I'd say the distribution volume. How many wedding 3D videos would be sold? 5? 10? maybe 20 in a very few productions. How about a basic documentary for national and world wide distribution? Can we estimate these numbers at 10,000 minimum? There is an economy of sales scale that justify the cost of the more sophisticated tool.
Sure PD10 is limited, but in it's environment of the consumer and limited market professionally, it is probably the best bang for the buck in existence and may be that for quite some time forward.

So how to get more quality and features? Given the price point of PD10 being the lowest and Blu-Print as one of the higher priced tools, I'm sure we have room for a competitive 3D authoring tool in the $1000 range, maybe as low as $500. Probably a better question to ask would be- would you pay that for a tool that offered more than PD10 but still limited from the BluPrint level? Then if you would what would you like to see in that product that would be possible and not encroach on the licen$e limits for a $1000 product? I'll give my answer now. No. I am quite satisfied with the limited menu features and bandwidth of my tools now. But remember, I am doing 3D as an amateur not intending to market world wide productions. If a mid level tool comes along such as DVD Architect for 3D I'll consider it too but only if it offers real advantage over PD10.

I found your compatibility statement interesting. I have several 3D players here and all of them handle the PD10 menu 3D productions just fine. Do you know for a fact which player can't play PD10 rendered disks?
post #375 of 388
Hi Don

I was not expecting miracles but the printing on the box say's it supports "industry standard 3D blu-ray" which I read to be profile 5. I do have an old sony blu-ray player which does not play very well. It judders.

From what I understand from Cyberlink the custom bitrate trick should work with 3D so it may be a bug.

The dependent stream should be a normal h264 stream with no I frames. The I frames from the base stream are used. This is what should reduce the dependent bitrate. The fact that the dependent bitrate is about the same as the base seems to suggest that the I frames are being included dependent stream so this could be a bug too.

As you say I look forward to more professional software. I use Adobe Production CS5. Unfortunatly I think encore is becoming long in the tooth but is very flexable. Someone has hinted that the next version of DVD Architect Pro will include 3D authoring. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I have always considered PD 10 as an interim solution.
post #376 of 388
I'm anxious to see what bitrate limits, if any, Grass Valley places on Edius 3D when it's released from beta (June 12 is the projected date). It's possible right now to output at very high data rates. What isn't clear about Edius is whether it will allow users to burn to Blu-ray 3D, with or without menus. The 2D version allows for burning to Blu-ray with menus, but we'll have to wait and see if there are any built-in 3D authoring capabilities.
post #377 of 388
Joe- I'm getting out of my element here but when I last spoke to Sony on this the problem was both technical development ( at that time) and license issues. The PD10 and other menu systems are not fully licensed java script and therefore license free. To build out a menu based on Java is beyond the technical capabilities of these small programs we've all been using. Edius, may offer some rendering capability that Power Director does not yet support because it will be supporting editing from broadcast level cameras right? Same goes for Sony Vegas Pro. With a company like Grass Valley, I would expect they will have a separate authoring "upgrade" or plugin at a price for the authoring similar to the way Sony Vegas works with DVD Architecture.
From all these possibilities, I suspect this year's NAB should be a very exciting in the area of 3D and BD burning software announcements from Sony, Adobe and GV. Wouldn't be surprised if we see something from Newtek or any of the older editing crowd. 3D is becoming a mature choice in the industry these days so competition should be heating up. "We're not in Kansas anymore" At CES editing software was next to non existent. Sony rep said SCS will only be represented at NAB now and Power Director was on display at the DTS both as an example of how they are expanding to licenses for more products in the future. When I asked the DTS guy about Vegas getting DTS license he just smiled and said they are talking.
post #378 of 388
Don,

Edius 3D has an MVC encoder built in, but I haven't been able to get satisfactory results using it. (On the Grass Valley 3D forum, a GV rep got a little upset with people who were complaining about the MVC encoder. He said it wasn't "a $40,000 piece of software.") All my renders have had noticeable artifacts, even though I can set high bitrates. That's why I create very high bitrate MPEG2 renders (left/right streams) from Edius. I usually skip PD10 because of less than stellar video quality. I import the dual MPEG2 streams from Edius into Vegas and create Blu-ray 3D iso files - no menus that way, but the video quality is far better.

Only time will tell how much capability they include in the retail version of Edius 3D. The software is on schedule for a June 12th release. The preview is at Build 6, good until March 26th. The June time frame puts it right around the revised release date for the new Intel Sandy Bridge e 3930 CPU. That's going to be the basis for my new video editing system. I have everything I need except for the CPU and motherboard. So far, I'm still inclined to use Edius as my everyday editor, with Vegas and PD10 as support software. If Edius allows even simple menu creation (like PD10), and the MVC encoding improves, it will be all I need for most projects. But that's a big "if."
post #379 of 388
I was not aware that you were having trouble with the MVC decoder for your JVC files in Edius. You can set very high bitrates in Vegas Pro v11 but unless you can generate image originals in the camcorder, I don't know what the point is. Your JVC works a bit higher bitrate than the TD10 but nowhere near as high as the professional camcorders. I discovered about 6 months ago that the JVC uses x.v. color or maybe it was "deep color" as always on. The TD10 is by default off for X.v. color so you have to turn it on. The highest image quality I get now is with my twin stereo rig using 24 fps, x.v. color with FX mode. This is supposed to generate a 28mbit video but it's variable. So far I see average bit rates of 18-20 Mbit on the PS3. I use your Shaw's Garden BD as my standard since the image was so good. With those settings I believe I can now match the JVC. But, shooting in 3D and xv color the image is not quite as deep as your Shaw's Garden. The average bit rates here are about 15Mbit.
post #380 of 388
Don,

The MVC decoder works fine in Edius. I get pretty clean playback from the timeline on my Core i7 system. It's when I attempt to export video as mp4 and m2ts files (using the built-in MVC encoder) that I run into problems. I've yet to get clean video, no matter the bitrate. Using MPEG2 dual stream output at 40mbps from Edius, I get great looking video, even though it has to be re-encoded to MVC by Vegas for output to Blu-ray 3D. Wolfgang has suggested that I use the Canopus encoder as an intermediate between Edius and Vegas, to keep the video even cleaner. Whichever one I use, the results are going to be better than what I get from PD10, but I lose menus.

I'm looking forward to seeing your canyon video. Sounds like you got some amazing footage.
post #381 of 388
Valley of Fire is still in progress. Two half days of shooting and I'm still missing some key shots. Going to spend another half day there in April to get those. I did the VO work this morning. I also have another fireworks show in progress. Both were shot in a maximum of 24" IA. The latest version of Illuminations: Reflections of Earth has some amazing popout. Should make many in these threads happy.
post #382 of 388
I have PowerDirector 10. I upgraded from the previous edition about a half year ago. I had used Adobe Premiere for several years. Power Director is better for my purposes. I make a lot of simple YouTube videos (classical music). I've posted more than a hundred. It's a solid product.

Now I'm planning out how to go to 3D. My 2D Blu-ray player stopped working so I'll buy a new 3D version - probably the Panasonic 210. This player converts from 2D to 3D in real time. Presumably I can watch a Netflix rented DVD in pseudo 3D. But I could also convert the whole thing in PowerDirector as a batch.

My question is - is the PowerDirector conversion going to be better? I would think that it should be because the electronics have more time and therefore can perform more operations. No?
post #383 of 388
Out of curiosity, I looked at the 2D to 3D conversion process in PD10. The objects in the scene look extruded and there is no rule on the Z depth placement. To sum it up. The process algorithm they use looks goofy, stupid. Your best bet is to get a good 3D camcorder and shoot the real thing.
post #384 of 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevorjharris View Post

Have been playing with PD 10 for 3D blu-ray production and have found it to be very limiting. First of all it does not produce a profile 5 blu-ray disc. It does infact produce an AVCHD version 2 3d disc. I have not found much info on this format other than not all 3D blu-ray players will play these discs so you need to check before you buy. Because this format is very simple it will not support such high bitrates as a profile 5 disc. The big difference with profile 5 is that it uses a ssif file which interleaves the base and dependent view with a maximum total bitrate of 60 Mb/s. Normally the dependent bitrate will be 50% of that of the base view.

This brings us to another limitation of PD10 in that the difference in bitrate of the Base and Dependent streams are very similar. This means that the quality achieved will be less than opimal.

Vegas produces a bitrate ratio of about 70% which is about the same as the TD10 produces. However vegas does produce Profile 5 discs but without menues.

PD 10 produces 3D discs with very low bitrates (about 15.5 Mb/s combined). One of my clips produces an increadable amount of blocking at this bitrate. There is a trick using SVRT for making 2D blu-ray discs with a custom bitrate but I have been unable to get this to work with 3D.

I suspect that Cyberlink did not go with profile 5 because of the licencing costs.

I would be gateful for other peoples views of all this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post


I found your compatibility statement interesting. I have several 3D players here and all of them handle the PD10 menu 3D productions just fine. Do you know for a fact which player can't play PD10 rendered disks?

The AVCHD 2.0 disks trevorjharris mentioned are particular camcorder originated formats, namely 1080p60-2D and 1080i60-3D. Said another way AVCHD 2.0 is 60fps progressive 2D, or it can be 30fps interlaced 3D. That is 30 frames per second for 3D is 60 fields per second interlaced 3D.
See the specific addendum for AVCHD 2.0 at the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#S...28AVCHD_2.0.29

When trevorjharris wrote that, "not all 3D blu-ray players will play these discs so you need to check before you buy," that is absolutely correct for these p60 and i60 formats that are AVCHD 2.0 compliant. So far I have only seen Sony BDPS480 BDPS580 and BDPS780 players that will play these disks. A firmware download to these player from Sony may be needed to play AVCHD 2.0.

Do you know of any other bluray players that will support playing AVCHD 2.0?

The question of profile 5 refers to bluray players that play 3D disks. "BLURAY" 3D is an older, widely supported format, while AVCHD 2.0 is newer and far more limited in its support.

The specification for "BLURAY 3D" is either 720p60-3D or 1080p24-3D. This is what Don was talking about for PD10 rendered disks. Yes indeed they are compatible with 3D bluray players as long as they are one of the two picture format / frame rates listed in this paragraph.

REFERENCE CHART

BLURAY 3D = 1080p24-3D
BLURAY 3D = 720p60-3D
AVCHD 2.0 3D = 1080i60-3D
AVCHD 2.0 2D = 1080p60-2D

Note: Both BLURAY 3D and AVCHD 2.0 3D use the "interleaved" method for coding the two eyes. This is accomplished using what is known as MVC, or Multi View Coding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiview_Video_Coding

How did you determine what the output bit rate on the resulting 3D disk was from PD10?

What Bit rate output does Don achieve from PD10 for 3D, and where are these settings made?
post #385 of 388
I did my bitrate estimates by demultiplexing the base stream and measuing its bitrate and derived the dependent bitrate by subtraction. This is not exact but does give some indication of what is going on. There is a fundemental difference between profile 5 and AVCHD discs. Profile 5 useses a ssif file which interleaves the base and dependent streams on alternate disc blocks. This is to minimise disc access time. There are also 2 m2ts files which actualy are software links to the ssif streams. One looks like the base stream and the other the dependant one. This is to make the disc look like a 2D disc to a 2d player.

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/Do...per_110712.pdf

The AVCHD just multiplexes the 2 streams into one m2ts file. This is not so optimal for disc access times and so will only support lower bitrates.

My hope is that PD will at sometime support Profile 5 like Vegas pro.
post #386 of 388
Asking for help with 5.1 Dolby sounding very distorted and scratchy when rendered or previewed in PowerDirector 10, but it sounds fine in PowerDirector's Edit Audio window. Nowhere can PowerDirector draw a graph of the waves, though. Anybody have any ideas, or any experience with a similar problem?

I imported the 5.1 into PowerDirector 10 as a PCM wave 48,000 file created in Sony Acid.
post #387 of 388
How does the PCM play in Vegas Pro? Normally, I render the audio tracks to PCM for import to PD10 and never had an issue.

I always select the DTS 5.1 output. Once when I first got PD10 I tested the Dolby 5.1 output and DTS for comparison and been using DTS every since. Both were clean but the DTS just had wider dynamic range.
post #388 of 388
Thank you, Don.

I put the 5.1 wave into Vegas and it played fine from the timeline. So, catching your suggestion, I rendered it as a 5.1 wave again from Vegas. Importing that into PowerDirector gave a fine sounding result. Apparently the Sony Acid 5.1 wave is different from the Sony Vegas 5.1 wave.

I'm in the final stages of producing a 3D video of trees through the four seasons, put to Vivaldi's Four Seasons music. It has been two years in the making so far, and it hurt to get stuck at this point so close to completion.

Thanks again.
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