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How often should I be hearing the same thing from the front L/R speakers?

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
This sounds really stupid, I know, but bear with me...I'm coming from using TV speakers all my life so I don't know any better.

In trying to figure out if my L/R speakers are the same, or if there's a problem with my receiver, room, whatever, I've come to realize that a lot, if not the vast majority of the time, I hear different stuff from my front L/R.

Is this on purpose, or should the front L/R be the same most of the time?

It's hard for me to grasp this concept since I've not had them separated like this before. This would only make sense to me if they're supposed to blend with each other, and since I'm just sitting too closely to them that I can distinctly hear different things from each speaker that WOULD blend together if I were sitting further away. It's kind of distracting IMO.

Thanks!
post #2 of 41
I'm scratching my head and chuckling.

What is your question?
What is you setup/equipment?
What are your sources?

A little more info would help.
post #3 of 41
I'm also not sure what the problem is...

Do you only have two speakers? If so, is your AVR set to provide phantom centre?

If you are watching the TV and someone on the left side of the screen is clapping his hands and someone on the right side is screaming then you would want to hear clapping only from the left speaker and screaming only from the right. So in that sense, you want to almost always hear something different in each speaker.
post #4 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

This sounds really stupid, I know, but bear with me...I'm coming from using TV speakers all my life so I don't know any better.

In trying to figure out if my L/R speakers are the same, or if there's a problem with my receiver, room, whatever, I've come to realize that a lot, if not the vast majority of the time, I hear different stuff from my front L/R.

Is this on purpose, or should the front L/R be the same most of the time?

It's hard for me to grasp this concept since I've not had them separated like this before. This would only make sense to me if they're supposed to blend with each other, and since I'm just sitting too closely to them that I can distinctly hear different things from each speaker that WOULD blend together if I were sitting further away. It's kind of distracting IMO.

Thanks!

If you were NOT hearing different things from each channel, I would think soemthing is wrong with your system somewhere.

The only time you would *not* is if you are watching a movie with a mono soundtrack, extremely common before @1970. The same for TV shows but those recorded before around 1985. Also, until Dolby Surround debuted in 1982, even movies with stereo soundtracks will produce no sound from the rear channels unless you have activated Dolby Pro-Logic II, DTS:Neo etc which can simulate rear info.
post #5 of 41
Perhaps THIS:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com...und-sound1.htm


will help you understand.


Bill C
post #6 of 41
Really?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

This sounds really stupid, I know, but bear with me...I'm coming from using TV speakers all my life so I don't know any better.

In trying to figure out if my L/R speakers are the same, or if there's a problem with my receiver, room, whatever, I've come to realize that a lot, if not the vast majority of the time, I hear different stuff from my front L/R.

Is this on purpose, or should the front L/R be the same most of the time?

It's hard for me to grasp this concept since I've not had them separated like this before. This would only make sense to me if they're supposed to blend with each other, and since I'm just sitting too closely to them that I can distinctly hear different things from each speaker that WOULD blend together if I were sitting further away. It's kind of distracting IMO.

Thanks!
post #7 of 41
Thread Starter 
I have a 7.1 system. It's kind of weird because if I put my ear up to both they may both be playing the same sounds but the right or left will be louder/more prominent (and one side or the other might have an additional beat or instrument or something). I personally find this kind of annoying.

Movies (I watch blu-rays only) have this more than tv. Occasionally they'll be the same but not a lot.
post #8 of 41
I bet you haven't read and understood the setup section of your manual(s).

Also, refer to the questions in post #2.
post #9 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

I have a 7.1 system. It's kind of weird because if I put my ear up to both they may both be playing the same sounds but the right or left will be louder/more prominent (and one side or the other might have an additional beat or instrument or something). I personally find this kind of annoying.

Movies (I watch blu-rays only) have this more than tv. Occasionally they'll be the same but not a lot.

Run your receivers Auto calibration! If that doesn't fix the problem buy your own db meter from Radio Shack and calibrate your speakers with that
post #10 of 41
Thread Starter 
I did, every time I adjust my system. It's at -8th for both l/r. I'm not a complete idiot people!

Question is: are the l/r not the same a lot of the time? Same stuff coming out of both...I don't mean directional scenes where it would obviously be different. It's getting annoying rarely hearing the same thing on either side like I feel I should.

Sources are BR movies in a ps3. Equipment is an onkyo SR607 receiver and two monitor70 speakers and a cs2 center, 4 crappy surrounds, and an outlaw LFM-1 EX subwoofer.
post #11 of 41
Each channel should have its own information. You could say that often the L and R channels have similar but not necessarily the same information, unless the sound is supposed to be off to one side. With a surround sound track most of the information (vocals, on screen action etc) is going to come out of the center channel. The Left and Right will support the on screen action (just like good stereo speakers would create an image that sounds like it is coming from anywhere from beyond the speakers to directly between the two speakers)

Movement of sounds from one speaker to the next should be seamless as it passes from one speaker to the next if you have matching speakers that are all configured the same way.
post #12 of 41
It is called Stereo, left and right channel. In movies left and right are different and off alot of the time. It creates a "soundstage" so sound can come from more than one spot.

Does 2 channel music sound ok on the system?

Do your center channel and mains sound very different? -8db makes me think you have an interesting setup.

Good luck
post #13 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

I did, every time I adjust my system. It's at -8th for both l/r. I'm not a complete idiot people!

And??? That means what? (not the "complete" part)

Quote:


Question is: are the l/r not the same a lot of the time? Same stuff coming out of both...I don't mean directional scenes where it would obviously be different. It's getting annoying rarely hearing the same thing on either side like I feel I should.

Correct! The L/R may not be or could be the "same" all of the time. I truly think you need to revisit the manual or understand what 7.1 (5.1) surround sound really does or is intended.

Quote:


Sources are BR movies in a ps3. Equipment is an onkyo SR607 receiver and two monitor70 speakers and a cs2 center, 4 crappy surrounds, and an outlaw LFM-1 EX subwoofer.

Maybe you need to check the audio setup of your PS3. Also, if you have/use a cable/FiOS/satellite box, check them too.

It may be worthwhile to pay someone to setup your system for you.
post #14 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

I did, every time I adjust my system. It's at -8th for both l/r. I'm not a complete idiot people!

Have you run test tones and other audio tests? Do these all sound correct? If not you may have a receiver problem.

Quote:


Question is: are the l/r not the same a lot of the time? Same stuff coming out of both...I don't mean directional scenes where it would obviously be different. It's getting annoying rarely hearing the same thing on either side like I feel I should.

All scenes are directional.

The only time you should be hearing the "same" thing from both speakers is scenes where the entity creating the most sound is far off in the distance so as to make L/R/C all "hear" the same.

Otherwise, the main sound entity will be biased to a side and so the sound should be as well.

Quote:


Sources are BR movies in a ps3. Equipment is an onkyo SR607 receiver and two monitor70 speakers and a cs2 center, 4 crappy surrounds, and an outlaw LFM-1 EX subwoofer.

If setup properly, all should work fine - unless, as I said above your AVR is broken.

Otherwise, it's not clear why you expect to hear the same thing at the same volume in both mains most of the time
post #15 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

Question is: are the l/r not the same a lot of the time?

Yes, they can produce the same sounds but depending on the scene being shown at the time they *usually* are slightly different, and many times MUCH different. This all depends on what the director wanted you to hear. Stereo music is recorded mostly the same way, though the lowest bass notes are usually shared by both channels. This all assumes there are no special DSP modes activated that can "mess with" the signal from your various sources.

Quote:
It's getting annoying rarely hearing the same thing on either side like I feel I should.

I think this may be a remnant from your time spent with TV speakers that are located almost right next to each other. I think now you are finally hearing what a movie soundtrack *really* sounds like!
post #16 of 41
If you got a good setup, you don't hear anything from the speakers at all. you hear the sounds from the stage/studio/set, which is magically transported into your living room.
post #17 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

I have a 7.1 system. It's kind of weird because if I put my ear up to both they may both be playing the same sounds but the right or left will be louder/more prominent (and one side or the other might have an additional beat or instrument or something). I personally find this kind of annoying.

That is no way to assess anything.
post #18 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

This sounds really stupid, I know, but bear with me...I'm coming from using TV speakers all my life so I don't know any better.

In trying to figure out if my L/R speakers are the same, or if there's a problem with my receiver, room, whatever, I've come to realize that a lot, if not the vast majority of the time, I hear different stuff from my front L/R.

Is this on purpose, or should the front L/R be the same most of the time?

It's hard for me to grasp this concept since I've not had them separated like this before. This would only make sense to me if they're supposed to blend with each other, and since I'm just sitting too closely to them that I can distinctly hear different things from each speaker that WOULD blend together if I were sitting further away. It's kind of distracting IMO.

Thanks!

You obviously don't like stereo or multichannel sound. Your receiver probably has a mode where you can switch the signal to mono. And if you can find a copy, go out and buy the CD or Vinyl boxed set of Phil Spector's productions called "Back to Mono". It comes with a button that you could wear that says "Back to Mono". And when in your car, only listen to AM radio.

I don't know why you bothered to invest in a multichannel setup if you don't like stereo.
post #19 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by pistonengine View Post

If you got a good setup, you don't hear anything from the speakers at all. you hear the sounds from the stage/studio/set, which is magically transported into your living room.

I think this is actually a pretty good answer.

If you can sit, watching a movie, and are annoyed by differences in sound between the front speakers, you have something in need of improvement imo. When I intently listen to a movie (instead of just watching or immersing myself into it), I can tell this is the case - but - when watching a movie, I don't ever notice this, save obvious sound effects. I just feel like the movie is happening in front of and around me

If you are bothered by this in watching movies, my guess is you have your front speakers really far apart and/or are sitting really close so you literally are getting no soundstage from the mains. Otherwise I'm really confused...
post #20 of 41
Guys. I think he's talking about stereo imaging.

Sound it suppose to sound like it's locked between the L and R speakers. With bad imaging sound will mostly seem like it's mostly coming from the L or R channels.

OP. Set your receiver to stereo mode and see how it sounds.
post #21 of 41
You know this sounds all too familiar to me. My father-in-law had/has a Sony speaker system with large 3 way tower speakers and 2 small bookshelf surrounds. This was from back in the day when quadraphonic sound was popular. I hooked him up with a Sony center, Sony sub (just cuz it was an extra that I had laying around), and an Onkyo 5.1 receiver.

My father-in-law infact hates true surround sound. He hates the fact that the center channel carries the voices and stuff. He likes the old quadraphonic or even just 2 ch stereo better.
post #22 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post


My father-in-law infact hates true surround sound. He hates the fact that the center channel carries the voices and stuff. He likes the old quadraphonic or even just 2 ch stereo better.

Probably because the tower speakers sounded so much better then everything else. I find it super annoying to be able to tell which speaker sound came out of which is the case with so many center channels I have been around. If the center sounds different from the Left Right I would much rather roll with just the Left Right.

Have Fun!
post #23 of 41
I sold a customer some surround speakers for their computer once. They complained that not all speakers produced the same sound. I tried to explain how "surround sound" works, that all channels are discrete and won't reproduce the same sounds, but all they could think about is having their 2CH music playing from all 5 speakers....


As for the OP's situation - Could one of the speakers be up against a side wall of the room? That can alter the sound coming from the general direction of that speaker. Room accoustics play a good part in how you hear a speaker.

Use the test tone on the receiver to play the pink noise through the speakers - the noise should sound the same from the two front channels.

There isn't enough information here to figure out what's going on. Are you hearing different instruments, sound effects, etc... from different speakers? That's normal. Is one particular sound/frequency reproduced differently from one speaker than the other (ie, the pink noise test tone)? If so, that's not normal.

Comparing it to a TV doesn't help much. The sound from a TV isn't typically very good, and the stereo seperation from TV speakers is even worse. Sometimes TV speakers point down, sometimes they point backwards, etc..

I suspect what you're hearing isn't abnormal, it's just not what you've become accustomed to.
post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

You know this sounds all too familiar to me. My father-in-law had/has a Sony speaker system with large 3 way tower speakers and 2 small bookshelf surrounds. This was from back in the day when quadraphonic sound was popular. I hooked him up with a Sony center, Sony sub (just cuz it was an extra that I had laying around), and an Onkyo 5.1 receiver.

My father-in-law infact hates true surround sound. He hates the fact that the center channel carries the voices and stuff. He likes the old quadraphonic or even just 2 ch stereo better.

Two-channel stereo also creates a center -- it's just a phantom center that's not as "hard" as having the true center channel. Anything that's in mono (usually vocals except for the stereo echo return as well as low frequencies like kick drum and bass) is usually recorded mono and will go to the center.

Even with 5.1 or 7.1 discrete, the classic view of multichannel systems is that they should be creating a sound field. This is especially true for surrounds, which is the reason why many are dipole. One can read up on the work of Tomlinson Holman (THX) for more details on this. For years, the "rule" for mixing was not to put anything in the surrounds that would distract the audience and take their attention away from the screen.

One instance that did this was when the alien spaceship makes a horn sound in Close Encounters that blows out the glass window in the viewing tower. In the original 70mm mag mix that came primarily from the surrounds. Surrounds were mono in those days (before Apocalypse Now) but you could still "steer" the effect by placing it in the mono surround + 1 front channel. That effect was placed (IIRC) in front right and surround, but appeared to be coming from the right surround. When it appeared, everyone in the audience turned their heads to the right. That was supposed to be a "no-no". Audiences have become much more used to stereo surround sound, so mixers can get away with it more today.

With the advent of theatrical digital projection and more consistency in the sound systems used by theatres as well as 5.1 or more in the home, mixers are now actually starting to get away from the sound field concept.

Quad sound (at least on vinyl) was a matrixed format, so there was actually very little separation between channels (which was also true for the original theatrical 35mm optical Dolby Stereo), thereby creating a sound field. And there was no center channel: it was Left, Center, Left Surround, Right Surround. I went to a demo a few years ago where they played digitally restored Quad recordings, but they were not remixed. They made a big deal out of it, but I don't think they sounded very good.

I'm of mixed mind when it comes to sound for TV. For most TV shows, I simply listen to the TV's stereo output, which I would sometimes prefer to be mono. If it's a big effects show, more like a movie, I do flip on the receiver and listen to the Dolby Digital. For BD movies, I always use the receiver, even if they're mono.

Meanwhile, the industry is trying to push more channels: 7.1 (rear surrounds), 9.1 (front wides) or even 11.1 (front heights). Tom Holman and others have been trying to push at least 10 channels for theatres for some time, but the most you'll find today is 7.1.
post #25 of 41
I think we need to know a little more about this set up. How far are you from the tv? How far apart are the speakers and where is the center channel set up. I have a feeling you are way to close so the L,R is blasting right at you.
post #26 of 41
Thread Starter 
I honestly cant figure it out. Play this in stereo and tell me if you hear it in the left speaker more prominently, the right speaker more prominently, or the center (where i'm thinking it should be):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cze-RfsOkkc

I'll provide more info about my setup once i figure out how crazy i am. For reference, i hear it in the right speaker the most, throughout pretty much the entire song.

The thing that drives me nuts is that during some scenes, clearly the same content should be playing in the left and right speakers, AND IT IS, but i hear it predominantly in the right speaker...what i cant figure out, though, is that when i crane my neck to the left or move to the left in front of that speaker, it sounds the same. BUT THE TOE-IN IS THE EXACT SAME!
post #27 of 41
Test I think this probally has a easy answer but we need more information. The fact that your speakers are being calibrated to -8 says something is not right. I listened to the track you posted and does not sound heavy to one side. Please list you AVR, All speakers, what the other speakers levels are set at when you calibrate, distance from your front speakers, and positon of front speakers relative to each other.(a picture would help)

One thing that I can think of to check is to double check that you speakers are correctly wired poisitive to positive and negative to negative on both the speakers and the avr. It is easy to get it reversed (I have done it). This can cause them to be "out of phase" which can sound like what you are describing.
post #28 of 41
Test... PLEASE BUY A SPL/db METER AND SELF CALIBRATE YOUR SYSTEM

http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

If you feel that one side is dominant how about lowering that side's level a little bit. But then again doing this with a SPL meter will make it easier than just winging it
post #29 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalgaryCowboy View Post

Test I think this probally has a easy answer but we need more information. The fact that your speakers are being calibrated to -8 says something is not right. I listened to the track you posted and does not sound heavy to one side. Please list you AVR, All speakers, what the other speakers levels are set at when you calibrate, distance from your front speakers, and positon of front speakers relative to each other.(a picture would help)

One thing that I can think of to check is to double check that you speakers are correctly wired poisitive to positive and negative to negative on both the speakers and the avr. It is easy to get it reversed (I have done it). This can cause them to be "out of phase" which can sound like what you are describing.

I think I'm about 8 feet away from the L/R speakers. I've checked a few times and the speakers are indeed wired right. Maybe i should switch it and see how that sounds? Would that damage anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

Test... PLEASE BUY A SPL/db METER AND SELF CALIBRATE YOUR SYSTEM

http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm

If you feel that one side is dominant how about lowering that side's level a little bit. But then again doing this with a SPL meter will make it easier than just winging it

They're both at -8db in the receiver, and are at the same distance as well. I have checked with an iPhone SPL meter and both speakers were the same level. I'll check it out again (i know the iPhone SPL meter is inaccurate, but we're worried about relative levels here).

The only thing I can think of is that maybe (somehow) the left speaker is somehow set narrower than the right? Although i disabled Audyssey and i got the same thing.

Everything is as symmetrical as i can get it, although the furniture is a little skewed. The speakers aren't rear ported, but are about a foot away from the wall anyway.

I switched wires and found that it follows the channel, so it MAY be the receiver, but i had a similar problem a while ago and re-ran audyssey and it became ok. I WOULD say it was the toe-in, bu the speakers' toe-in are within a few millimeters of each other.
post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

I switched wires and found that it follows the channel

When you run test tones, are the test tones louder on that one pair of wires?

If yes, and both sides are set even in the receiver, as I said a long time back, take your receiver in and get it fixed.
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