My Epson 3010 projector just arrived! - Page 48

Via fw update tool, for me its best seting... and did you try batman style of Monsters? Its goo too

Sorry, I could not follow your post. But thanks for input. You have been away for long time, if i am not wrong. Yes, I have updated FW and what i need to know that at fine tuning stage, what is the best settings when i move the joystick right or left (delay setting)? as i am unable to completely remove the ghosting and the maximum I could get is as good as equal to Epson glasses or may be my Epson glasses are very good though. Also by moving joystick up and down affects only 3D brightness and i keep that when my first 3 LED are red/green, whatever. More then 3 or 3 and half i start getting crosstalk but at 3 they work fine. Also when i move joystick right or left to set delay i see the best image when only3 and 4th LED is slightly lit. What i can do or where am i doing wrong.

You need D-Box.

Couple of questions I need help with.

I have a 120" gray screen; it has issues so the material is being replaced. Should I stick with gray? ive always had gray screens or is the contrast ratio for the 3010 good enough on a white screen?

I have two pairs of monster glasses but where on earth do you people mount the IR receiver? often it shows green but the glasses turn off.

White would be fine as contrast ration of 3010 40000:1 is quite good. I placed IR receiver between the lens and body of projector, you can put it their using transparent tape.

cant afford Dbox and its not even universally used for most movies On the contrary for just $360 you get most bang for the buck and Subwoofer channels is universal

Xhonzi how are you ? You are awfully quite since you got 3010 wither you are floating on cloud 9 or you lost all interest in 3D projection

1. D-Box supports what I would call most "movies you'd want it to support". Sure, Driving Ms. Daisy and The Bridges of Madison County are not supported directly... Do I care? Not really.

2. In the absense of movie specific code, D-Box can do the same thing buttkickers do- use the bass signal to rumble the chair. I use this mode for games or Bridges of Madison County.

But you are right, it is expensive and for $300-$400 you can have a lot of fun with transducers like buttkickers. I have them on the rest of my furniture and have installed them in the homes of several friends.

I have mostly just been enjoying my 3010. I had severe ghosting with what I thought was going to be my final unit. Having seen 2 that had "minimal" ghosting, this one was really bad- probably like the first one you had, falafala. I worked with Epson and they replaced it.

I've been watching a lot of 3D BD, and playing a lot of 3D Xbox/PS3. A lot of natively supported 3D, and some MicroCenter 2D->3D converted stuff. It does a pretty mean job with games, as long as they don't feature a lot of rich yellow- which the converter seems to have trouble with.

I've also been following the recent developments in the dual projection world. Seems like a very good solution has been developed, but it costs about 2x the cost of a 3010+glasses. And 2x the hassel and whatnot. I'm a little jealous, but not really. Call me lazy, but the plug-and-play nature of the 3010 (not to mention the price) is hard to beat.

I know this projector has been around a while, and I've tried to read as much as this thread as I could. Just looking for some opinions and guidance.

I've never owned or dealt with a projector before. The house my wife and I just moved into has a nice finished basement. I would like to create a home theater down there. The basement living area is fairly large, so a projector seems ideal. There is minimal window exposure (which would be on the complete opposite side of the room from where we would put the screen), but I think we would mostly be down there at night, so outside light shouldn't really be an issue.

Most of our viewing will probably be cable HDTV and movies. I have a PS3 I use for Blu-rays and DVDs. Would probably do some gaming down there on the PS3 and Wii. Is the lag that bad and really a concern? 3D is cool, but not really a concern for us right now.

I've seen 120" screens are pretty affordable these days. How far would the seating have to be from the screen to be ideal? The room can be configured a couple different ways.

Also, is this basically the best sub-$1500 projector right now, or are there other options I should consider? Would like to spend no more than about $2000 for the projector and screen, though can stretch that budget if needed.

Sorry for all the basic questions, but I really need some guidance on this. Thanks!

As the king (or perhaps the Court Jester) of complaining about the lag, let me say this:

There's a good chance you'll never notice it. It's below the threshold for many (perhaps most) of the casual gamers here. After I decided to throw down with the 3010, even though I hated the lag, I've done my best to ignore it or learn to live with it. I die every so often and blame the lag. Or fail to make a turn or something... but 95% of the time everything is extremely playable.

I have my image projecting on a white wall. The size is pretty close to 120" diagonal. I sit about 9' back from the image, and it's clear, crisp and there is virtually no sign of any "screen door" (pixels) showing.

There might be one or two other projectors to look at in this price category that are contenders, but since this projector has so much going for it, I didn't like anything over and above the 3010. Here is why, for me, I think the 3010 is the best choice (at its low price).

1. I don't like the rainbow effect of DLP projectors, so I wanted LCD. This fills the bill with LCD.

2. The 3010 has lots of user controls over the image with lots of choices for adjusting gamma and color. More, it seems, than what a lot of the competition offer at a similar price point.

3. The brightness out of this thing is something you've got to see to believe. If you have come from other projectors, as I have, then you really can appreciate what Epson is offering at the price.

4. The bulb has a longer rated life than a lot of other projectors - and a cheaper replacement cost than others too. This is a BIG plus.

5, The warranty and customer service are second to none. I haven't needed their servicing . . . but I have spoken with their agents and it's top flight customer service. I'm impressed that Epson cares about keeping their customers happy with way better any average client care.

6. The image is awesome!

7. The 3D from this unit is jaw-dropping. Better than from my 64" Samsung plasma.

I know that there is a slight lag, when gaming, that others notice, but I'm not such a huge gamer that it's a deal breaker in my case . . . some may have a problem with the lag, while others won't notice so much.

Ian

what is microcenter ?

BTW what happened to the OFSO ?

Hi guys, I'm hoping some of you may have seen this before or at least know if I'm crazy or really have an issue on my hands...

I recently received a replacement 3010 from Epson after the iris on previous unit died. I had absolutely no issues with that first unit other than the iris. During setup all I did was plug it in and ran through the WoW calibration disc, worked like a charm everytime after.

With this new unit it's constantly forgetting settings between powering it off and back on. The biggest pain of which are the keystones. I have it setup in my basement and due to a low hanging column and where I had to place the screen, the projector is at a slight angle. No problem, with the first unit the auto v-keystone had a slight pitch and I also had a minor horizontal keystone. I never noticed any picture degredation and since we just moved here a couple months ago I really couldn't buy a 2nd house just because I couldn't get perfect projector placement.

Anyway, every time I power this new unit back on, I have to go back in and re-set the keystones manually, and the vertical keystone is greyed out at all times. I then had to create some memory settings which I manually have to reload each time. Not once did I have to do this with the original projector, and it's turning into a giant pain. Anyone know if the projector is faulty and I need yet another replacement from Epson, or is there something I need to enable that I just haven't found yet?

I really don't want to have to call Epson back for a 3rd projector but will if I have to (it bums me out they don't have a 1-800 number, the last time I dealt with them I paid $25 for the long distance just to speak with them multiple times).

Is there a "display mode" or a "store mode" thats enabled? I don't have that one but usually with a problem like not saving settings its something simple like that. Happened to me on my flatscreen tv and I called the company and they told me how to get it into "home mode". Something to check, because I know a lot of companies offer this feature so people can play around with settings at the store and all the salesperson has to do to reset it is power off.

I think their toll free numbers are written on the bottom of the projector. Mine does. If you need i can check and post here.

Sorry, meant MonoPrice. MicroCenter is store/site that sells computers and whatnot- like CompUSA used to be.

Here's a link to the MonoPrice 2D->3D thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1339157

I posted my OFSO conclusions in this thread (or one like it) somewhere. I can't really use a 1 ft cable in my installation, and the 5 ms or so that it seemed to speed things up weren't worth the trouble.

Can anyone who has this projector please take a minute and help him confirm he is in "store mode" and how to correct this please.

Just an update, I gave Epson a call and the customer rep was simply not that helpful.
I did manage to get the horizontal keystone worked out (if you use the manual control it sticks), however I was informed it's normal behaviour for the projector to forget its keystone settings in between powering it off/on if done through the settings menu. Sounds like baloney to me, as the previous projector worked fine.

Anyway, the guy wouldn't listen to the real problem but kept reading through some info he had in case the focus kept going out, which isn't my problem, so I thanked him for helping with the horizontal keystone and left it at that. Still the issue of the vertical keystone not sticking, auto keystone greyed out, and image settings not being retained.

If there is a store mode, and someone can point me to get to that option and disable it, I would be eternally grateful. I did some searching around and can't seem to find anything on it.

I fixed mine by setting the keystone correctly, then saving the setup in memory. User setting....Haven't had a problem since.

Dang... Just watched the blu ray "Chronicle" on my 3010 and it was Awesome! I'll post my calibration settings tomorrow, I've been crazy busy the last week. Also, the calibration disk came with my 3010, I bought a package (projector, screen, mount, 35ft hdmi and a couple blu rays). That calibration disk was one of the blu rays that came with it.

^^
Chronicals, what a movie, i wish they could have made such spectacular movie not by hand held camera, rather using professional cameras. Movie was amazing on 3010 at the setting of "living room" on 135" screen.

Please post your calibration ASAP and please state your screen size.
Thanks

Is there anyone here who is a full electronics engineer and is working in 3D technology. It is good to know that which part in a 3D system is responsible for exhibiting crosstalk. Why it is not there in DLP but in LCD it is there. Is crosstalk result of poorly made or mis-aligned LCD panels or it is the incomplete sync between display and glasses or poory manufactured glasses itself.

If someone can chime on it in simple language, would be appreciated. Why when someone buys 3010 or any other epson and sees crosstalk and when the same unit is replaced with new one the crosstalk is gone, which means that problem is not only with the glasses there is something wrong in the projector which malfunctions and creates this crosstalk.

Anyone , please.

There have been lots of posts on this, but here's a simple version:

Ghosting is when an eye sees the picture meant only for the other eye.

In 3D viewing, your right eye may see a dim version of the left eye's bright image if those same pixels are supposed to be dark in the right eye. Since you're likely seeing the same object in the left eye, but in a different location, what you end up seeing with your left eye is the bright object with a dim "ghost" of the object to one side of it. If the problem occurs in both eyes, you will see the bright object inbetween 2 dim ghosts- the left eye leaking into the right eye and the right eye leaking into the left eye.

1. LCD shutter glasses can't completely block out bright light, even when "closed". This affects LCD and DLP displays evenly. The brighter the light, the more will get through the glasses. Off angle viewing will also let more light through, and lead to ghosting. Different glasses may exhibit different capabilities of blocking bright light when closed.

2. Active glasses being out of synch with their display will definitely cause ghosting, regardless of LCD/DLP display. I don't have any data on whether LCD or DLP displays and their relative synchronization schemes are more likely to get out of synch. Having more control over the tuning of the timing is critical, and makes some combinations of displays and glasses more ghost-free than others. The more the glasses are shut, the less likely you are to catch the other eye... but the higher percentage of the time you are staring at closed lenses.


3. Pixel response time- this is where the DLP advantage comes in. Pixel response time is basically the time it takes for a pixel to stop showing the last colour it was set to. LCDs take a couple to several (depending on the to/from colour) ms more to transition than DLP. Consider that the LCD cell will "cool" as it transitions from a bright colour to a dark one, and the DLP stops showing the colour as soon as the mirror is reflected away. It takes time for the mirrors to move, but it's generally faster than the "cooldown" of the LCD cells. What this means to 3D is that a bright left-eye pixel might still be grayish after it's told to be a dark right-eye pixel. In 2D viewing, if it's slow enough, poor pixel response can lead to a smeary image in fast motion. I'm sure we've all seen it. The closer the two colours are to each other, the faster the transition is. The closer the two colours are to each other, the less likely you'd be to notice anyways.

4. Polarization- if you use polarization of any kind, understand that a polarizing filter or glass will not completely polarize the light and everything else will depolarize the light to some degree. To the degree that the light isn't polarized, and that your glasses aren't completely blocking the off-polarized light.... you will see ghosting. Screens are especially tough- especially since what makes a screen great at maintaining polarity makes it crap for short throw (i.e. home) projectors.

Great knowledge you have indeed but rather difficult to grasp easily for a person like me.
Thanks a lot for your post.

My question were:
which part in a 3D system is responsible for exhibiting crosstalk. I understand that it could be LCD panels or glasses. Right?

Is crosstalk result of poorly made or mis-aligned LCD panels or it is the incomplete sync between display and glasses or poory manufactured glasses itself. I guess from your post that every part plays its part, but what major part is there which creats crosstalk?

Why when someone buys 3010 or any other epson and sees crosstalk and when the same unit is replaced with new one the crosstalk is gone????

Which means that problem is not only with the glasses there is something wrong in the projector which malfunctions and creates this crosstalk. Which part, is it bad LCD panels? or some other part?

I believe the difference between one 3010 and the next is probably the timing of the IR emitter. So one would have better synchronization than the other.

I don't believe LCD convergance is a significant factor in ghosting/crosstalk. It leads to sharpness of either a 2D image or a 3D image, but I don't think it has anything to do with an eye seeing the other eye's picture.

so what you are saying that if some one has crosstalk and instead of replacing can try with epson's external IR emitter to see if he gets better results??

I agree that the convergence won't impact the crosstalk in any significant way, not unless it was Way out. What I've found and it apply's to both my 3010 and my 3D plasma I own is there are three main factors in causing/correcting cross talk. First is the blu ray player itself! You get what you pay for here, buy a low end player or a player with known faults, your going to have low end results. I own a panny 310 which has been a fantastic blu ray device for me.

Second is video brightness, its our instinct to jack this up to compensate for a dimmer picture as a result of wearing what is in all reality "sunglasses". Maybe on the more expensive PJ's you'll get away with jacking up the brightness but the 3010 isn't as forgiving. Try to lower the brightness until you find a happy medium between the crosstalk and being to dim.

Third is the phase/IR synchronization the projector has with the with the glasses. This is where the monster glasses will help out the most. the fact that you can dial them into the flicker rate that the PJ is displaying is Huge! As far as the phase goes, well... Thats pretty obvious when that's out and what do to fix it.

This is how I approach setting up my display devices to run proper 3D. It's not perfect or the end all, be all result but it works for me and that's all that matters I suppose.

Thanks for your input, appreciated. As far as brightness is concerned I have noticed that less bright scenes have more crosstalk and when i increase both brightness and contrast sufficiently, crosstalk is gone, but picture gets too bright then that i lose over all sense. But you are saying to lower the brightness and i tried that and did not have any effect on crosstalk.
Secondly I have monsters too and with my best tuning possible, i get it as close to Epson glasses. May be my Epson glasses are tuned very well so i am left with 5-8% crosstalk here and there in the movie.

Basically I am trying to know exactly where is the problem. Why 3010 customers complain about 3010 as far as crosstalk is concerned but 5010 or 6010 do not have much of this issue. this means something else, not LCD panels or 3D emitter are the culprit as I believe that both of these items are same in 3010, 5010 and 6010. What else is the difference.

I fully agree with you that 3D blu-ray player should play a great role towards crosstalk this is what once Epson technical adviser told me when i called them and talked about crosstalk.

Secondly crosstalk is also projection of your brain as well and that is why some people see little and some more like myself. I have noticed that when i am tuning Monsters i see a point when there is no any crosstalk and I stop tuning there but in 1-2 second again I see crosstalk on exact same place, which means my brain's visual department initially stop seeing crosstalk and then again started seeing crosstalk but little.

I wish I had a simple answer for you mankhan, reading throughout this thread I can see you've been having a lot of problems with crosstalk. My 3010 does display it from time to time but no more then what what my 3D plasma does. It seems like you have tried Everything to fix it also! The only thing I could possibly think of at this point and its a silly question but have you tried to reverse the phase? The glasses phase being reversed will cause the bad crosstalk you have. Worth a shot to try if you haven't already.

I just went in to make the change with the DIP switch to add the menu option for the LCD Alignment. No problem.

After I finished my adjustments, and exited the menus, I noticed that my sharpness setting now doesn't allow me to go in to the Advanced sharpening area. "Advanced" is grayed out. I wonder if changing that one DIP switch, that while allowing for alignment adjustment, does negative things to other features (which were working before)?

Also, I had one hell of a time making adjustments around the grid when trying to see the red and blue line moving up or across. How does anyone see a dark blue line against a dark background grid?

Like one other poster mentioned, it seemed at times that I couldn't see anything happening (the lines weren't moving). In fact, I had to exit the menus and come back in to get this working again . . . not sure what happened there.

At any rate, I'm not sure I did much good . . . except that I did find the red easier to adjust than the blue . . . and I noticed white text in movie end credits (white on black) don't have the very fine red outline to the right of letters anymore.

If I find I don't like my changes, I'm hoping that the default option in the LCD Adjust menu will restore my 3010 to where it was before playing around with these settings.

Any thoughts on how to best see the red and blue lines?

Thanks . . .

Ian

If I reverse the phase then i shall also have reverse phase on my player as well, right? I use HTPC using PowerDVD 12 or TMT5 so i have to go there 3D and reverse phase as well.

The bottom line is that my purpose for all this crosstalk discussion is to know how this 3D works and what are the factors/parts of 3D system are involved in this so that i can exactly figure out my issue. I think as xhonzi explained it is the Pixel response time in my case and thus BAD LCD PANELS and that is why when someone's unit gets replaced, crosstalk is gone. Probably my pixels do not get cool well in time.