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Chinadog's Tennessee Theater! - Page 17

post #481 of 683
1/28/13 at 8:00am
Excellent. So how does the angled piece of crown meet the rounded edge? Did you have to make a special cut into the crown?
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post #482 of 683
1/28/13 at 5:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkjack View Post

Excellent. So how does the angled piece of crown meet the rounded edge? Did you have to make a special cut into the crown?

Hey Dude.

Two 22.5 degree cuts versus one 45 degree cut (on the small piece). Width at the base has to span the radius of the curve, like 1.5 inches. Other boards adjacent require 22.5 degree cuts to match it. Fortunately my chop saw has this as a standard quick cut. Then you caulk the crap out of it. smile.gif

Hey, we need to talke about you building me a HTPC. We can spec it out then I can ship the parts to you for you to assemble. How's that sound? Let me know when you want to start. We'll have to figure out the remote integration though, I want to be able to control it with an ipad mini (likely) with the rest of my stuff. Still working through the Creston integration. Then, when thats done, we can start on the mame machine. smile.gif

Bud
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post #483 of 683
1/28/13 at 6:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinadog View Post

We'll have to figure out the remote integration though, I want to be able to control it with an ipad mini (likely) with the rest of my stuff. Still working through the Creston integration.

Are you integrating XBMC with Crestron? The new 3-series supports something called S# (essentially C#) and that makes doing stuff like XML parsing WAYYYYY easier. I wouldn't even bother trying to integrate XBMC with the 2-series anymore.

Or you could do what I did and simply give in. I used a poorly documented feature in the Crestron Mobile app that launches XBMC Commander right from my own GUI! How cool is that?! You simply assign a launch function to the digital press that sends "xbmc-commander:\\" into iOS (or, presumably, Android) and blammo: native app control.
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post #484 of 683
1/29/13 at 4:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdanforth View Post

Are you integrating XBMC with Crestron? The new 3-series supports something called S# (essentially C#) and that makes doing stuff like XML parsing WAYYYYY easier. I wouldn't even bother trying to integrate XBMC with the 2-series anymore.

Or you could do what I did and simply give in. I used a poorly documented feature in the Crestron Mobile app that launches XBMC Commander right from my own GUI! How cool is that?! You simply assign a launch function to the digital press that sends "xbmc-commander:\\" into iOS (or, presumably, Android) and blammo: native app control.

I don't know what XBMC is. I haven't done anything yet, except purchase the Crestron lighting control unit. I know you can integrate Creston with iOS devices, but haven't gotten that far yet. Need me some learnin'.

Bud
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post #485 of 683
1/29/13 at 6:27am
HERE is some information about XBMC, but basically it is an open-source program (meaning any developer can contribute code) with a robust interface that can organize, catalog and provide interactive access to virtually any type of stored media files while allowing outside control devices such as iPad, URC, Pronto, Crestron, etc. actually control the software interface and obviating the need for keyboard and mouse in most cases.

Jon has it right on the money in his system: A full-on Mac mini with the higher-end video and audio output capabilities running XBMC and controlled by his iPad. The Mac Mini is connected to a NAS array for ALL media storage. THIS is the Synology NAS that Jon has and I will be ordering the same in just a few months when I am ready. So the whole system is simple, easy, reliable and native to the Apple devices which alleviates many of the normal control issues from PC-based devices. I haven't finalized things yet, but this is probably the exact route I intend to go with my streaming media system.
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post #486 of 683
1/29/13 at 8:56am
Cool. Sounds good. Let me know when you have some free time and we can talk about the system and I can send you a link to buy all the parts from New Egg. I am controlling my HTPC with the URC remote. I am sure we can make the HTPC controllable from you iPad. I will start searching around for some information about that. I still have the template for the GoldenTee machine just FYI. Look around the Arcade Controls Forum and send me some links to pics you like there for a Mame machine. Eventually, I am going to build a little Mame Bar top using an old laptop.

Did you ever decide if you are going to DIY your next screen? I am seriously considering another screen wall upgrade to a DIY perf screen with motorized horizontal masking.
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post #487 of 683
1/29/13 at 9:01am
Having a Mame to go along with the theater would be awesome! That's definitely on my list of projects for post HT. I'm expecting lots of pics of that build, too smile.gif
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post #488 of 683
1/30/13 at 4:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

HERE is some information about XBMC, but basically it is an open-source program (meaning any developer can contribute code) with a robust interface that can organize, catalog and provide interactive access to virtually any type of stored media files while allowing outside control devices such as iPad, URC, Pronto, Crestron, etc. actually control the software interface and obviating the need for keyboard and mouse in most cases.

Jon has it right on the money in his system: A full-on Mac mini with the higher-end video and audio output capabilities running XBMC and controlled by his iPad. The Mac Mini is connected to a NAS array for ALL media storage. THIS is the Synology NAS that Jon has and I will be ordering the same in just a few months when I am ready. So the whole system is simple, easy, reliable and native to the Apple devices which alleviates many of the normal control issues from PC-based devices. I haven't finalized things yet, but this is probably the exact route I intend to go with my streaming media system.

Thanks for the info. I'll refer back here when I'm ready to start that part of the build.

Bud
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post #489 of 683
1/30/13 at 4:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkjack View Post

Cool. Sounds good. Let me know when you have some free time and we can talk about the system and I can send you a link to buy all the parts from New Egg. I am controlling my HTPC with the URC remote. I am sure we can make the HTPC controllable from you iPad. I will start searching around for some information about that. I still have the template for the GoldenTee machine just FYI. Look around the Arcade Controls Forum and send me some links to pics you like there for a Mame machine. Eventually, I am going to build a little Mame Bar top using an old laptop.

Did you ever decide if you are going to DIY your next screen? I am seriously considering another screen wall upgrade to a DIY perf screen with motorized horizontal masking.

Sounds good.

I have not thought of the screen yet. Was thinking store bought motorized - maybe go the SMX route if I can afford it. Maybe not be an option if its out of line. Got a link to the arcade controls forum?

heading up to the cabin the last week in March, going to have Heath replace the windows, putting in some hardware upstairs in the bedroom, loft and bathroom and upgrade the bathrooms a bit. Maybe we hook up then.

Bud
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post #490 of 683
1/30/13 at 4:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Having a Mame to go along with the theater would be awesome! That's definitely on my list of projects for post HT. I'm expecting lots of pics of that build, too smile.gif

I'm still waiting on the HVAC guy, I've been trying to find time this week to call. Once I have that, progress should pick up - as well as the pictures of course. smile.gif

Bud
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post #491 of 683
1/31/13 at 5:03am
Thread Starter 
Well, I called the HVAC guy - he's the president of the company and the guy gave me he cell number. This is the company that brought the engineer and the site manager. No answer, left a message yesterday. Guessing now that they're going to blow me off. I'll start looking for a fourth company now and see where I get. Maybe I should put in the two returns (have the two supplies already) and not put the dampers in. Getting a little annoyed. mad.gif

I reached out to Ted's company for a box of putty pads as well, going to keep moving even if it's a little bit at a time.

Bud
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post #492 of 683
1/31/13 at 4:50pm
Thread Starter 
HAVC called back, left a message. Will speak with him tomorrow.

Bud
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post #493 of 683
2/1/13 at 5:46pm
Thread Starter 
Ha! Haha! Hahaha! Hahahahahahahahhahahahahaaaaaaaaaa!

It's a joke! it must be a funny, silly joke! tongue.gif

Estimates for the HVAC guy. 12.4K if I decide to replace/upgrade my HVAC system, which includes a Lennox air cleaning system. 6.8K using the existing system and a Lennox air cleaning system. I didn't ask for an air cleaning system. I'm a little dumbfounded.

Has anyone else done a damper system for their theater room? Was it really >5K for a damper system? I'm I off base here? I had done one in a house about 15 years ago and I think it was like 1100.00. I think I'd go as high as 2500-3000 to make the change before I go in a different direction. Geez, I've got two supplies in there already, if I add two returns and froze out the rest of the basement for a month during the summer, I'd hand blankets out. Love to do this correctly, but the budget say no. 90% of the time its only me generating the body heat.

Bud
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post #494 of 683
2/1/13 at 6:15pm
Ouch. I've been dragging my feet on a split AC for over a year for that reason - and blankets have been enough, if not optimal.
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post #495 of 683
2/1/13 at 7:09pm
Sounds high to me. The HVAC in our new construction was a little over 15K. That included a 5 ton dual stage compressor (I believe that's the largest residential unit available), variable speed air handler, four zones, all the ductwork for the whole house, and thermostats. The dual stage compressor was a $2,500 up charge. There was an add-on option for an air cleaner that was another $1700 that we did not spring for. I'm not sure what you discussed with them, but it sounds like they have given you the "I don't want this job" quote. It's easy to scare off the HVAC guys when you start discussing the flow rates and heat loading with them. Did Dennis give you specific capacities and duct configurations?
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post #496 of 683
2/2/13 at 4:44am
IMHO, it's on the high side. OTOH they did bring an engineer, so you get what you pay for (I hope). Maybe they are going to re-do the trunk lines etc.?

Nick and I have both done our own zoned systems, so we can give you an idea of the work involved and the costs. That's probably the easy part.. plotting out all your existing diffusers and ductwork.. then figuring the cooling loads for all the rooms.. would be a large chunk of the work. I would never assume the guy before me did it right.

Tim
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post #497 of 683
2/2/13 at 4:48am
It is quotes like that that motivate people to DIY. From memory CurtisG near me DIY his home theater zone using parts suggested by DE. You may want to reach out to him. I also remember the project sent him to the ER when he sliced open his hand.
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post #498 of 683
2/2/13 at 5:52am
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Here are the specifics. I met the engineer obviously and I would probably not have called him an engineer in the traditional sense. I do think they know their job and they do it well, I just don't think I can justify 6.8K or anything north of 3K to get this done, I think that's the reality. Can I put in my own zone? Not sure I want to take that on. Did the initial installer do everything correct and calculate out the correct system for the basement and install it correctly? Doubt it.

I think I'll call him and see what other options may be cheaper and see if there is anything else I can do. I'll also look around for someone else to give me another estimate so I have something to compare it to.

Option 1
Heat Pump: Lennox XP16-024 Heat Pump ( 2-Stage, 16 SEER )
• 10 Year Limited Warranty on Compressor
• 10 Year Limited Warranty on Covered Components
Coil Blower: Lennox CBX32MV-024/030 Coil Blower ( Variable Seed Blower )
• 10 Year Limited Warranty on Covered Components
Electric Heat: Lennox ECB40-9CB Electric Heat ( 9kw )
• 5 Year Limited Warranty on Covered Components
Air Cleaner: Lennox HCF-14-10 Air Cleaner
Zone System: Harmony III Zone System
Total Installed Cost = $12,442
This installation will include the following items:
• Install new digital programmable thermostat.
• Reconnect to the existing electrical wiring with modifications at the equipment necessary to make proper
connections.
• All necessary refrigerant & condensate piping to make proper connection.
• Install new aux. drain pan with overflow switch.
• Install new sheet metal transition to reconnect to the existing plenum and duct system.
• Modify existing duct system per JHCC drawing .. including specified registers.
• Remove and haul off of all equipment being replaced.
• All labor & materials needed to properly complete the job.

Option 2
Air Cleaner: Lennox HCF-14-10 Air Cleaner
Zone System: Lennox LPZ-4 Zone System
Total Installed Cost = $6,821
This installation will include the following items:
• Install new digital programmable thermostat.
• Modify existing duct system per JHCC drawing .. including specified registers.
• All labor & materials needed to properly complete the job.

I do not have the drawing mentioned above.

Bud
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post #499 of 683
2/2/13 at 6:04am
I totally understand your position on cost. I was quoted $4900-$6500 for my work and ended up doing it myself for about half the cost.. which included buying all the tools. However, I do respect that professionals deserve to be paid a fee commensurate with the expertise.

Adding a zone is really not that difficult should you wish to undertake it yourself. A few of us have been through it already, so there is help a post away.

I would say $3k is a decent budget to have somebody come in, install the dampers and zone control panel. Maybe tell them that is what you want to spend, and see if they can modify their bid to suit your budget.

Tim
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post #500 of 683
2/3/13 at 5:02pm
I think there is a zip code charge involved; I deal with that regularly. Admittedly, the HVAC guys I use most do outstanding work. Anybody can do it, but not necessarily well. I have horror stories from budget HVAC guys, but none from the ridiculously expensive ones.
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post #501 of 683
2/4/13 at 10:38am
Option 3. Bud gets a 1 year HVAC Certification for ~$6500.00 and then still has almost 6k left over for his HVAC system.biggrin.gif

http://www.myfuture.com/schools/cost/434362

Cost for Program with Highest Enrollment
Program: Heating, Air Conditioning, Ventilation and Refrigeration Maintenance Technology/Technician.
Tuition & Fees for Entire Program: $5,866
Length of Program: 900 Credit Hours
Room & Board: Not Available
Books & Supplies: $650
Other Expenses: Not Available
Total: $6,516
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post #502 of 683
2/4/13 at 12:49pm
Since you are not adding any conditioned square footage beyond what was already there with your existing system, why are they leading you into a completely new system? Is it just to get the integrated zoning capability? And $6,821 to retrofit three duct lines to the theater (two supply and one return I would assume), a new thermostat and a zone controller is downright larceny!!

You have more than enough "construction smarts" and skill to pull this retrofit off on your own. All you need is a bit of hand-holding and some good advice. When I was looking at doing the exact same thing that you are trying to do (converting single zone unit to dual zone), I ran into the same exorbitant charges you did - only my system conversion didn't include the air cleaner and was about $4500.

Not wanting to spend $4500 (or $6821 for that matter), I found this HVAC company online that can take your input data of system size, duct sizes, air exchanges, thermal heat load of a theater (extra people, air tight, extra insulation, etc.) plus your system goals and give you a very simple materials list and some technical advice on how everything can go together from a DIY basis. They officially recommend a professional installer and offer no guarantees for DIY people as a disclaimer , blah, blah, blah.....but a competent person like yourself should have no problem executing the work. My guess is everything should cost you well under $1000 in materials - a bit more if you get the pro air cleaner as part of the deal.

I think this is a significantly more viable option for you. As always, just my .02 of course.
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post #503 of 683
2/4/13 at 3:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jikkjack View Post

Option 3. Bud gets a 1 year HVAC Certification for ~$6500.00 and then still has almost 6k left over for his HVAC system.biggrin.gif

http://www.myfuture.com/schools/cost/434362

Cost for Program with Highest Enrollment
Program: Heating, Air Conditioning, Ventilation and Refrigeration Maintenance Technology/Technician.
Tuition & Fees for Entire Program: $5,866
Length of Program: 900 Credit Hours
Room & Board: Not Available
Books & Supplies: $650
Other Expenses: Not Available
Total: $6,516

Funny, if this was something I'd do a few times, I would consider it. Otherwise, no thanks.

Bud
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post #504 of 683
2/4/13 at 3:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Since you are not adding any conditioned square footage beyond what was already there with your existing system, why are they leading you into a completely new system? Is it just to get the integrated zoning capability? And $6,821 to retrofit three duct lines to the theater (two supply and one return I would assume), a new thermostat and a zone controller is downright larceny!!

You have more than enough "construction smarts" and skill to pull this retrofit off on your own. All you need is a bit of hand-holding and some good advice. When I was looking at doing the exact same thing that you are trying to do (converting single zone unit to dual zone), I ran into the same exorbitant charges you did - only my system conversion didn't include the air cleaner and was about $4500.

Not wanting to spend $4500 (or $6821 for that matter), I found this HVAC company online that can take your input data of system size, duct sizes, air exchanges, thermal heat load of a theater (extra people, air tight, extra insulation, etc.) plus your system goals and give you a very simple materials list and some technical advice on how everything can go together from a DIY basis. They officially recommend a professional installer and offer no guarantees for DIY people as a disclaimer , blah, blah, blah.....but a competent person like yourself should have no problem executing the work. My guess is everything should cost you well under $1000 in materials - a bit more if you get the pro air cleaner as part of the deal.

I think this is a significantly more viable option for you. As always, just my .02 of course.

Yeah, I was a little surprised myself obviously.

This is tempting, although I'd really prefer not to screw with it. I'll have to do a little research. I'm still going to look at some other companies this week.

Bud
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post #505 of 683
2/4/13 at 5:49pm
Perhaps you could discuss with an engineer directly?
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post #506 of 683
2/4/13 at 7:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post

Perhaps you could discuss with an engineer directly?

I do plan to call the guy back and see what drove the cost up, so maybe I can talk to the engineer.

Bud
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post #507 of 683
2/5/13 at 4:44am
I retrofitted mine with the Arzel Evergreen panel and ECM Motor and a CoolMizer. http://arzelzoning.com/products/evergreenzoning/ & http://arzelzoning.com/products/coolmizer/.
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post #508 of 683
2/5/13 at 4:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applegarth View Post

I retrofitted mine with the Arzel Evergreen panel and ECM Motor and a CoolMizer. http://arzelzoning.com/products/evergreenzoning/ & http://arzelzoning.com/products/coolmizer/.

And how do you like it? Any issues?

Bud
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post #509 of 683
2/5/13 at 11:05am
Thread Starter 
So I called the company with the large prices. I asked him why it was so expensive. He said that he planned on 5 days of labor - the costs were about 50% labor 50% material. I asked him why so many days, he said he may be off a day or so, but to reduct everything would take at least 4 days. I'm just not seeing it. I have another company coming out Thursday morning.

Bud
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post #510 of 683
2/5/13 at 11:51am
So....if it's AT LEAST 4 days and he may be off a day or TWO, it could be even MORE expensive? Something's not adding up here.
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