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Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! - Page 35

post #1021 of 1408
Stephen and Michel -- So the Ploytec did the trick?
post #1022 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

Stephen and Michel -- So the Ploytec did the trick?

Yep - that was the source of the problem (actually solution) for me.
post #1023 of 1408
Awesome -- glad it worked out and was just software instead of a bad piece of hardware
post #1024 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post

I was looking through the Datasat specifications and I was wondering how the Digital outputs could be used? Are there any power amplifiers with digital ins?
Yes, and there are also digital active speakers you can attach directly as I do (brands like Genelec, Klein und Hummel, KS Digital etc.).
post #1025 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

Stephen and Michel -- So the Ploytec did the trick?
The Asio driver from the USB Pre 2 site (http://www.sounddevices.com/download/usbpre2-asio.htm) worked for me.
post #1026 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

  • All share same Trinnov proprietary hardware components, which are modular.
  • MC2 (pro) has up to 16 channels I/O, Magnitude 32 has up to 32 channels.
  • Both units use a combination of XLR and Tascam Standard DB25 connectors (DB25-XLR cables are plentiful, available at all price points)
  • MC2 has 8 XLR outs, Magnitude 32 has both 8 XLR out and 8 XLR in
  • Both units share software features*. This means all 2D/3D, EQ, xovers, are common features amoung all machines.(* pro units offer optional software monitoring functions unique to pro applications-see Trinnov.com for details)
  • Sample rates in all Trinnov units are a function of the channel count and processing power available
    (A doubling of sample rate (ie 48k to 96k) requires a quadrupling (4x) of processing power required. Sample rates possible are a function of channels processed. Hardware is designed for a max sample rate of 24/192k. Current software impose limitation is 24/96k. Planned future development will allow for a 24/192k functionality (within the CPU limitations of the given platform))
The ADA TEQ and Reference share hardware and software components with various Trinnov branded units. ADA also has added the following premium upgrades to make the system easily integrated into typical HT:
  • TEQ adds both balanced and unbalanced I/O,
  • TEQ has Software selectable hardware I/O gain (On Trinnov units, must move board jumpers),
  • TEQ has Front panel functions: Power, Mic input, 5 Trinnov function switches, and Rotary Level Knob (Trinnov has on/off power)
  • Reference has touchscreen display
  • All ADA units include ADAnet Bus for inter connectivity (Trinnov has RS232)
  • All ADA units have built in mic power/preamp (Trinnov mic requires a battery)
As we move forward to CEDIA, I look forward to sharing more details as they become available.
.
Cheers,
Curt Hoyt
Trinnov Audio USA

So can the MC essentially act as a TEQ or Magnitude in the 16 channel configuration BUT has a multichannel digital input? With 3D remapping, etc?? TRying to figure out the differences... Thanks!
post #1027 of 1408
Yes, you can get the optional digital input card for the MC but not for the Magnitude...but Magnitude can do 32 out and MC is limited to 16.
post #1028 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

Yes, you can get the optional digital input card for the MC but not for the Magnitude...but Magnitude can do 32 out and MC is limited to 16.

Sounds like the MC might be a great all digital solution for ht.

1 What type of digital input connector and would you need a HDFury to strip out the HDCP?
2 Same DACs as TEQ/Magnitude?
post #1029 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Sounds like the MC might be a great all digital solution for ht.
1 What type of digital input connector and would you need a HDFury to strip out the HDCP?
2 Same DACs as TEQ/Magnitude?
DB25 not sure about the HDfury question. I beleive the DAC's in the mag and MC are the same. Not sure about the TEQ..
post #1030 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

DB25 not sure about the HDfury question. I beleive the DAC's in the mag and MC are the same. Not sure about the TEQ..

What does a 12 ch MC sell for?

TEQ ans Magnitude are essentially the same...
post #1031 of 1408
I would refer you to Curt. He answers emails very quickly and will let you know the current price. It does depend somewhat on exchange rates.
post #1032 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

What does a 12 ch MC sell for?
TEQ ans Magnitude are essentially the same...

From what I recall MC is cheaper than TEQ. If Magnitude is the same as TEQ, this would make Magniture more expensive than MC, which makes little sense since it has fewer inputs and is otherwise functionally the same. Thenagain, the four channel pro unit is also cheaper than the consumer version. But ask Curt for detail.

DACs in TEQ, Magniture and MC are all the same.
post #1033 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

DACs in TEQ, Magniture and MC are all the same.
And are, IMO, excellent DACs. My Berkeley Alpha was sold shortly after buying the Trinnov.
post #1034 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

And are, IMO, excellent DACs. My Berkeley Alpha was sold shortly after buying the Trinnov.

I never bothered to compare the Trinnov DACs to my PerfectWave MKII. May be I should give it a try after all beyond using them for my center channel. I'm actually heading the exact opposite direction and am looking into a DAC upgrade.
post #1035 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

From what I recall MC is cheaper than TEQ. If Magnitude is the same as TEQ, this would make Magniture more expensive than MC, which makes little sense since it has fewer inputs and is otherwise functionally the same. Thenagain, the four channel pro unit is also cheaper than the consumer version. But ask Curt for detail.
DACs in TEQ, Magniture and MC are all the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

And are, IMO, excellent DACs. My Berkeley Alpha was sold shortly after buying the Trinnov.

So, could you get a full multi-channel digital chain from the Blu Ray source to the SSP?

Blu Ray Player--> HDFURY--> HDMI/25-pin to digital input adapter -->MC--> Speakers
All other sources--> SSP--> analog input MC--> Speakers

So, one digital (Blu Ray) source into the MC's digital input (bypassing the SSP all together) and all other sources into the SSP and fed via analog XLRs into the MC for processing and then out to the speakers?

Anyone tried the HDFURY with HDMI audio? I imagine you'd need a player with HDMI outputs to do it via HDMI.

Sound do-able?
post #1036 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I never bothered to compare the Trinnov DACs to my PerfectWave MKII. May be I should give it a try after all beyond using them for my center channel. I'm actually heading the exact opposite direction and am looking into a DAC upgrade.
Eric, you should. FWIW, I've had the PWD in my system for an extended listen, so I'm not unfamiliar with it.

Better places to seek improvement, IMHO.
post #1037 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

So, could you get a full multi-channel digital chain from the Blu Ray source to the SSP?
Blu Ray Player--> HDFURY--> HDMI/25-pin to digital input adapter -->MC--> Speakers
All other sources--> SSP--> analog input MC--> Speakers
So, one digital (Blu Ray) source into the MC's digital input (bypassing the SSP all together) and all other sources into the SSP and fed via analog XLRs into the MC for processing and then out to the speakers?
Anyone tried the HDFURY with HDMI audio? I imagine you'd need a player with HDMI outputs to do it via HDMI.
Sound do-able?

Yes this should work, although I obvioulsy have no idea how the HDFURY would work. I recommended precisely this setup a few weeks ago; only I suggested the modded Oppo as digital source. I still think this would be superior to the HDFury, because the Oppo reclocks the signal and the HDFURY presumably won't.
post #1038 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

Eric, you should. FWIW, I've had the PWD in my system for an extended listen, so I'm not unfamiliar with it.
Better places to seek improvement, IMHO.

I am definitely in diminishing returns territory with a DAC upgrade, but I have completely run out of other things to upgrade, except for the PWD MKII. In fact I just got off the phone with MSB and will be trying their new analog DAC as soon as they have a unit available for demo. This is trickle down technology from their ultra expensive DAC IV series, as good as their DAC IV product line (with the exception of the 40K diamond with penta clock), for 40% of the price.
post #1039 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Yes this should work, although I obvioulsy have no idea how the HDFURY would work. I recommended precisely this setup a few weeks ago; only I suggested the modded Oppo as digital source. I still think this would be superior to the HDFury, because the Oppo reclocks the signal and the HDFURY presumably won't.

This ended up working for me. Thanks.

________
Ivy Bridge
post #1040 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Yes this should work, although I obvioulsy have no idea how the HDFURY would work. I recommended precisely this setup a few weeks ago; only I suggested the modded Oppo as digital source. I still think this would be superior to the HDFury, because the Oppo reclocks the signal and the HDFURY presumably won't.

So you're using the player for Processing in TRUE HD or DTS MA and outputting lpcm. So, how do you solve matrixing a 5.1 track to 7.1? I doubt the Oppo gas internal PLIIX!?!
post #1041 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

So you're using the player for Processing in TRUE HD or DTS MA and outputting lpcm. So, how do you solve matrixing a 5.1 track to 7.1? I doubt the Oppo gas internal PLIIX!?!

I asked that same question, assuming you would have to map your surround channels to rear channels in the Trinnov. Apparently, the 3D remapping in the Trinnov will also generate the two channels for you on a 5.1 source. I think mapping surround to rear channels would work just fine though.
post #1042 of 1408
According to all "official" statements I have seen the HDFury4 does not remove **** from the HDMI audio signal and can also not be used in this way. The modded Oppo gives you 8 channels via SPDIF but then you can't decode anymore outside the Oppo (which degrades the RS20i to a switcher and Dirac Live box).
post #1043 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

...but then you can't decode anymore outside the Oppo (which degrades the RS20i to a switcher and Dirac Live box).
I don't understand this...
post #1044 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

...but then you can't decode anymore outside the Oppo (which degrades the RS20i to a switcher and Dirac Live box).
I don't understand this...
What I mean is the RS20i has nothing to decode, just gets PCM. One can argue that the PCM from the Oppo should be identical to the PCM the RS20i creates inside but I'm not so sure about this. The PCM from my Playstation definitely sounds different (less dynamic range, less LFE) than when the RS20i decodes. Don't know if this is simply fixed by some volume manipulations, but there are differences. Also I dislike being forced to use one specific player, which I don't like a lot anyway, just to get full sound quality in my chain.
post #1045 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

What I mean is the RS20i has nothing to decode, just gets PCM. One can argue that the PCM from the Oppo should be identical to the PCM the RS20i creates inside but I'm not so sure about this. The PCM from my Playstation definitely sounds different (less dynamic range, less LFE) than when the RS20i decodes. Don't know if this is simply fixed by some volume manipulations, but there are differences. Also I dislike being forced to use one specific player, which I don't like a lot anyway, just to get full sound quality in my chain.

That is strange. PCM is the unpacked digital stream. I can't imagine that it would be degraded. Could be volume differences as you mentioned. I'd try that theory out with a test disc and a sound pressure meter and see. If it does decrease the output.

I think I've read that there are volume differences between LPCM and bitstreamed digital (it may affect the dialnorm).

Thanks for the input.
post #1046 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

What I mean is the RS20i has nothing to decode, just gets PCM. One can argue that the PCM from the Oppo should be identical to the PCM the RS20i creates inside but I'm not so sure about this. The PCM from my Playstation definitely sounds different (less dynamic range, less LFE) than when the RS20i decodes. Don't know if this is simply fixed by some volume manipulations, but there are differences. Also I dislike being forced to use one specific player, which I don't like a lot anyway, just to get full sound quality in my chain.

This will not necessarily be the case when you use the modded Oppo. The oppo will reclock the PCM data stream.
post #1047 of 1408
I am going to use the modded Oppo at some point, but I will still use the analog inputs for some sources via the analog inputs of the Trinnov MC.
post #1048 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bessinger View Post

I am going to use the modded Oppo at some point, but I will still use the analog inputs for some sources via the analog inputs of the Trinnov MC.

That is what I recommended all along. Get a modded Oppo and run it digital into the MC8 for ciritcal sources (BR, SACD), and a mid-fi SSP for less critical sources (TV, gaming) and run this analog into the Trinnov.
post #1049 of 1408
It looks like I will be trading out my AP20 for an RS20i in the next few weeks -- I'm quite excited to hear if there are any audible differences between the two units - Really looking forward to trying out the bass management that has gotten such strong reviews
post #1050 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

That is what I recommended all along. Get a modded Oppo and run it digital into the MC8 for ciritcal sources (BR, SACD), and a mid-fi SSP for less critical sources (TV, gaming) and run this analog into the Trinnov.
I know you influenced me as well as Curt:)
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!!