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Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! - Page 45

post #1321 of 1408
Another 'tease' on the capabilities of the new card for the RS20i - I just wish Datasat would hurry up and release it to put owners out of their 'misery' (albeit I know some delays relate Dolby licencing). I could live with an annoucement on what it delivers however so I hope that occurs in the next day or two.
post #1322 of 1408
Thread Starter 
I do so hate being a "tease" , but I have been sworn to secrecy regarding that card and its specific details. One can hope there is an announcement of some sort, but I'll say that it was not part of the conversation I had recently. I promise, once they give me the green light, I'll open my big mouth about it....but until then...

The best I can say is that once that card is finally released; the RS20i is worth every penny of $18,500 USD because there isn't another processor that offers the same or similar feature set until the $40,000 USD Cinema Reference.

Dan
post #1323 of 1408
The cards are no longer with Dolby, it wont be long folks. The reason they have been delayed is due to Datasat listening to our requirments and adding as many features to the dsp card as possible.

Like Dan, I am not allowed to tell you more. I would get shot. But it has been fully worth the wait.
post #1324 of 1408
Dan/Nick - Don't want either of you to get shot and understand that you have 'in confidence' information from Datasat. Pateince is just not one of my strengths!
post #1325 of 1408
Hi All:

Anyone attending CES? Get in touch! We have four opportunities to hear Trinnov based systems:

http://www.trinnov.com/tri_news/ces-2013/

* Audio Design Associates – Venetian Suite 30-311 - ADA Reference driving a 7.3 channel RBH Sound speaker system

* ADA/DBox/Kscape/Triad – Venetian Bassano 2710 on Level 2 - ADA TEQ w Triad 5.4 System

* DTS, Central Hall, 9839. Trinnov MC-2 driving 6BE Focal Loudspeakers 11.2 (primarily a Headphone X demo)

* Audio Plus Services – Venetian Tower – Suite 30-117 - Trinnov ST2-HiFi driving Focal Diablo Utopias with a Utopia EM Passive Sub

Cheers,
post #1326 of 1408
Curt, can you tell us if some of the Trinnov units are connected digitally with a processor/ player? If you can be more specific, will be appreciated.
post #1327 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post

Curt, can you tell us if some of the Trinnov units are connected digitally with a processor/ player? If you can be more specific, will be appreciated.

For CES, both the Reference and ST2HiFi have digital sources. The Reference a Blu Ray player via HDMI and the ST2HiFi using a music server via SPDIF....

Cheers,
post #1328 of 1408
Guys, if someone is interested on my thoughts of Trinnov MC8, you can read them here: http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?s=c7f05e09a549a6c264893817f77630c7&showtopic=111033&st=25
post #1329 of 1408
Dan, I see that in the comparison ADA-TEQ and DATASAT you used multiple subs. I was wondering how did you connect ADA with the TEQ when ADA is designed for 7.1 system. Did you use some Y splitters to get more LFE channels from the ADA? Thank you in advance.
post #1330 of 1408
Thread Starter 
I used the signal routing matrix in the TEQ to "create" multiple subwoofer channels.

Rhapsody to TEQ was a standard 8 channel connection.

Dan
post #1331 of 1408
Anyone has had trouble with the hdmi board not displaying?

Upgrading prometheus and cannot get bdp-95 to show 2d on barco . They said to update firmware.
post #1332 of 1408
Peter, you have to use output 2 of the oppo. The mds boards don't play nice with out put 1 for some reason.
post #1333 of 1408
Yes that is what I ended up doing setting o1 to video only.

Thanks!
post #1334 of 1408
For some time I was wondering how to use the Digital inputs on Trinnov. Modified OPPO was one of the way to go and I was strongly considering it but the Vanity board for the 103 is not ready yet. I started to think if a HTPC could do it for me and started to research Sounds cards with DB 25 connector. Apparently RME are famous with their Audio interface and I stopped my choice on RME AES 32. Apparently this card was used in the first generation of Trinnov.
I contacted Steiger Dynamics ( https://www.steigerdynamics.com/shop-leet-systems.aspx ) new company which specialises in HTPC. People there were of tremendous help, very high professionals which turned every stone to meet my requirements. They use only the best parts on the market at very reasonable price.
I had my HTPC now already for 2 months and I can simply say that is absolutely stunning. You can keep it in your living room since it looks very stylish.
I connected the HTPC with Trinnov via DB 25-DB25 cord. The setting of the RME card was a bit tricky but once you get around this the final results are stunning.
For playback I use the J River with ASIO driver. Apparently by using the ASIO driver you get the pure digital sound to Trinnov. I compared the sound from Trinnov connected to Rhapsody and from the HTPC. As we all know the rate of improvements diminish with throwing more money into the high fidelity systems. Rhapsody itself is a great processor but the digital path cleared the sound, improve the sound stage and increased the dynamics.
Now I started to realise what the people who heard the ADA Reference and use the DATASAT have in mind when they say that "there is an improvement". The difference....fraction of the price for new processor!

Now I can use my HTPC for watching DVD, BD, listening movies, even playing games. All equipment is connected via the HTPC to Trinnov. I stopped using my BD player and ripped all my CDs to FLAC and enjoying great sound from my Paradigm speakers....
Extremely happy and if someone would like to pursue this road, think about the people from Steiger Dynamics....highly recommended.
post #1335 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post

For some time I was wondering how to use the Digital inputs on Trinnov. Modified OPPO was one of the way to go and I was strongly considering it but the Vanity board for the 103 is not ready yet. I started to think if a HTPC could do it for me and started to research Sounds cards with DB 25 connector. Apparently RME are famous with their Audio interface and I stopped my choice on RME AES 32. Apparently this card was used in the first generation of Trinnov.
I contacted Steiger Dynamics ( https://www.steigerdynamics.com/shop-leet-systems.aspx ) new company which specialises in HTPC. People there were of tremendous help, very high professionals which turned every stone to meet my requirements. They use only the best parts on the market at very reasonable price.
I had my HTPC now already for 2 months and I can simply say that is absolutely stunning. You can keep it in your living room since it looks very stylish.
I connected the HTPC with Trinnov via DB 25-DB25 cord. The setting of the RME card was a bit tricky but once you get around this the final results are stunning.
For playback I use the J River with ASIO driver. Apparently by using the ASIO driver you get the pure digital sound to Trinnov. I compared the sound from Trinnov connected to Rhapsody and from the HTPC. As we all know the rate of improvements diminish with throwing more money into the high fidelity systems. Rhapsody itself is a great processor but the digital path cleared the sound, improve the sound stage and increased the dynamics.
Now I started to realise what the people who heard the ADA Reference and use the DATASAT have in mind when they say that "there is an improvement". The difference....fraction of the price for new processor!

Now I can use my HTPC for watching DVD, BD, listening movies, even playing games. All equipment is connected via the HTPC to Trinnov. I stopped using my BD player and ripped all my CDs to FLAC and enjoying great sound from my Paradigm speakers....
Extremely happy and if someone would like to pursue this road, think about the people from Steiger Dynamics....highly recommended.

If I did not have SACD to contend with I would strongly consider going down the same path. I am even toying with the idea of biting the bullet, and ripping my MCH SACDs and going the HTPC route anyway. The convenience factor alone is huge for me. Do you have a configuration spec'ed out that they build for you?

Other question. Would this machine play physical BR discs through the optical drive? I watch mostly movies rented from netflix once, with no interest in ripping. But would love to have my concers DVDs all ripped and at my fingertips.

Other question. Is there any software / hardware I can integrate in such a machine that will decode dolby digital coming in from my satellite TV receiver?
Edited by edorr - 4/2/13 at 2:34pm
post #1336 of 1408
Do you have a configuration spec'ed out that they build for you?

If you go on the Steiger Dynamics website you can configure the HTPC for yourself. I used as Video Card Nvidia 680 and RME the sound card. Nvidia supports 4k and can play 3D movies. I opted for the Reference model but as I said there are a lot and up to the individual options...

[IWould this machine play physical BR discs through the optical drive?[/?[/I]rive?

By all means. No troubles and for me the picture quality is better than my Panasonic BD player (mind you is 4 years old). I use J River and AnyDVD for decoding. Last night I watched Skyfall and he experience was fantastic.

Are any software / hardware I can integrate in such a machine that will decode dolby digital coming in from my satellite TV receiver?re[/B]receiver?

I am not sure where you live but there are Satelite TV PCi cards (dfferent for each country). You can use also a TV Tuner card if you have digital TV. I live in Australia and I opted not to put a TV tunner but just discuss your requirements with the guys from SD and they will turn any stone to meet your needs. The service was very personal and the best ever I have received.
post #1337 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post

Do you have a configuration spec'ed out that they build for you?

If you go on the Steiger Dynamics website you can configure the HTPC for yourself. I used as Video Card Nvidia 680 and RME the sound card. Nvidia supports 4k and can play 3D movies. I opted for the Reference model but as I said there are a lot and up to the individual options...

[IWould this machine play physical BR discs through the optical drive?[/?[/I]rive?

By all means. No troubles and for me the picture quality is better than my Panasonic BD player (mind you is 4 years old). I use J River and AnyDVD for decoding. Last night I watched Skyfall and he experience was fantastic.

Are any software / hardware I can integrate in such a machine that will decode dolby digital coming in from my satellite TV receiver?re[/B]receiver?

I am not sure where you live but there are Satelite TV PCi cards (dfferent for each country). You can use also a TV Tuner card if you have digital TV. I live in Australia and I opted not to put a TV tunner but just discuss your requirements with the guys from SD and they will turn any stone to meet your needs. The service was very personal and the best ever I have received.

Just to confirm, even if playing the Blu-Ray from the drive, you still have to have AnyDVD do the decoding, because otherwise the high-bit rate audio would not play out via the RME AES 32 (as I assume it is not HDCP compliant), is that correct?
post #1338 of 1408
For more info you can refer to RME site (http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_aes32.php#5) but I don't think the limitaion is in the card 24/192 kHz).

You need AnyDVD to remove all restrictions on the BD and the Cinovia protection. My undersanding that J River is one of the few players who hasn't sign to the Cinovia. I still to find a BD which cannot be played on my system. Just works flawlessly. J River is the Audiophiles SW and is one of the few that using ASIO drivers.
post #1339 of 1408
OK. So I finally got around to setting up Dirac live on my music server, do measurements and create some filters. I have been using Trinnov, but wanted to simplify my signal path and am running USB into the MSB DAC, rahter than doing USB to AES/EBU conversion to be able to go through the Trinnov,

Measurements went fine. Then created three filters;
Filter one: +5db to 0db in 20Hz-200Hz range, flat in 200Hz - 1Khz range and 0dB to 5db in 1Kzh to 20Khz range - this is pretty much the same target curve I am using on my Trinnov
Filter two: +5db to 0db in 20Hz-300Hz range, no correction at all on anything above 300Hz
Filter three: flat from 20Hz to 20Khz.

Then kicked back, played some music, switching filters in real time and switching filter on/off to compare DRC with no DRC.

Huge disappointement. First, I honest to God barely noticed a difference between any of the filters, and no filters at all. I am 100% sure I could not pick out a preference I was doing this blind. On Trinnov, there is always a clear difference between engaging DRC and bypassing it.

Am I doing something wrong? I'm very puzzled.

The way it stands right now, I'll just forgo DRC completely, at least for 2 channel. Still have my Trinnov processor for multi channel.
post #1340 of 1408
I don't know what you did, but with my theater, there is a clear difference when the filters are turned on and off and it is not subtle (Especially within the 20-200hz range). How many times did you measure?
post #1341 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I honest to God barely noticed a difference between any of the filters, and no filters at all. I am 100% sure I could not pick out a preference I was doing this blind. On Trinnov, there is always a clear difference between engaging DRC and bypassing it.

Am I doing something wrong? I'm very puzzled.
When you measure with Dirac and with Trinnov, do they both show a similar "before" curve? (I cannot remember if Trinnov shows that or not.)

Could you print the Dirac before/after curves for us to look at?

Is there a way to verify that the Dirac is actually in the active signal path? Like put in some wild target curve and hear it respond?
post #1342 of 1408
"before" curve? (I cannot remember if Trinnov shows that or not.)
Trinnov does show before, after curves and filters applied.

On Trinnov, there is always a clear difference between engaging DRC and bypassing it.

I am not sure why want to use DRC. Of course there is difference since it plays with the low and high frequencies. I found the sound with DRC engaged to be "bloated" and reduce the clarity. I don't use it for music and movies but I do use it when I watch Satellite or TV channels (with RF engaged).
post #1343 of 1408
I think edorr may be meaning Digital Room Correction, not Dynamic Range Control as the trinnov has?
post #1344 of 1408
Good point. I have noticed dramatic change if you use or not Room correction but I have my PEQ off in Rhapsody and also all levels and delays zeroed. Trinnov does excellent job in the Room correction and setting the filters based on the Target curve. However, the sound should be still optimised even after the filters are applied. I found that some frequencies did not sound right which made me modified the target curve. Small adjustments such as increasing the slope of the curve after 4kHz or flattening the curve at 100 Hz instead at 200 Hz. I think that this is a personal choice but at the same time would depend on the Room.

For me DRC means Dynamic Range Control and as I said earlier I hardly use it...I have also spoken to other Trinnov users and I understand that they don't use it as well.
post #1345 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post

"before" curve? (I cannot remember if Trinnov shows that or not.)
Trinnov does show before, after curves and filters applied.
For clarity: Trinnov "after" curves are predictions, not actual measurements.
post #1346 of 1408
Yes when I have my trinnov mc I only ever used its DRC for sky tv. Never for anything else.
post #1347 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

When you measure with Dirac and with Trinnov, do they both show a similar "before" curve? (I cannot remember if Trinnov shows that or not.)

Could you print the Dirac before/after curves for us to look at?

Is there a way to verify that the Dirac is actually in the active signal path? Like put in some wild target curve and hear it respond?

I can generate those charts. May be later today. The shape of the before curves are very similar, but the Trinnov 5dB dips at 30hz and in the high frequencies show up as 10dB in Dirac.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Is there a way to verify that the Dirac is actually in the active signal path? Like put in some wild target curve and hear it respond

I guess I can create A filter that cuts the low frequencies by 10dB and play a subwoofer testtone and see if it cuts my volume by 10dB, to check the processor is actually working....
post #1348 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

I think edorr may be meaning Digital Room Correction, not Dynamic Range Control as the trinnov has?

Correct. I mean Digital Room Correction.
post #1349 of 1408
Edorr,

Something must be buggered. In my experience you will always hear a difference 'with versus without' Dirac Live filters, especially in the region under 200Hz as Dave pointed out. I would be glad to help you debug your process. There are several skilled Dirac Live users on this forum.
__________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #1350 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Edorr,

Something must be buggered. In my experience you will always hear a difference 'with versus without' Dirac Live filters, especially in the region under 200Hz as Dave pointed out. I would be glad to help you debug your process. There are several skilled Dirac Live users on this forum.
__________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

It appears my processor is running fine:



What is strange that if I load a target curve in the calibration tool, it will show me the correct target curve, but the "after correction response curve" is not the one that corresponds with this target curve. It just shows me the response curve of the last target curve I created, in this case the "flat" curve.


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