This has now gotten out of hand.
1.) my bass management crossover is set to somewhere between 75hz and 125 hz depending on the speaker and its location. Every speaker is receiving FULL OPTIMIZATION with either Dirac (when the RS20i is in the system) or Trinnov (when the ADA/TEQ is active). I have optimized the room, including all 8 subs utilizing the tools provided to me in the TEQ-12 or the RS20i and Dirac Live! software (the Rhapsody when engaged acts like a decoding pass-through with volume control).
How many filters do you think are being applied per-subwoofer below 125hz?
That's 2 independent 18"s and 3 groups of 2x12" in-wall: 5 channels total.
2.) How many out there have used an electric screw-gun? How many have used a screw-driver? Is the screw-gun always equal or better to use than the screwdriver? Ever have a situation where you KNEW the screwdriver was the necessary tool? Well, let's just say that I have pretty extensive experience with numerous kinds of screwdrivers and screw-guns (both literally and figuratively). MY PERSONAL CHOICE FOR ANY GIVEN SITUATION IS BASED ON MY PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE. When I say that currenty, I prefer to manually eq/balance subwoofers over using Trinnov or Dirac- that is because of my experience. I have used Symetrix, Biamp, Lake, BSS, QSC, Trinnov, ADA, Datasat, BBE, Alesis, Lexicon,Theta, B&K, Alto, d&b audiotechnik , etc to setup systems both commercial and home theater. I'm faster
doing the subs manually ( R I G H T - N O W ).
It takes practice to get good at anything, well, knowing that it took me days to get the subs close to where I know they can be using the tools in Trinnov, and that I had to use the tools in the Datasat to get the subs close with Dirac- on a system I've been working on for 4 years..tells me that I'm better off at the moment using my own skills. BELOW 125 hz!!!!
Every single trace that I have posted in this thread has been either correction from Trinnov (completely) or correction from Dirac with balancing by Datasat .
My very first post for this thread states that I will do a COMPARISON of the 2 most often talked-of room eq technologies (here on AVS), and that I will CONTRAST the two. Both of these I have done. I never said there was a quest to find the best, because I'm not naive enough to think there is ONE best- that's like saying there is one design of speaker that's the best.
Definition of COMPARISON
: the act or process of comparing: as
a : the representing of one thing or person as similar to or like another
b : an examination of two or more items to establish similarities and dissimilarities
efinition of CONTRAST
: to set off in contrast : compare or appraise in respect to differences
I'm pretty sure I've done that in this thread.
What anyone thinks a room eq system should
do, is irrelevant to this. The only question at hand is: did the systems do what they say they do?
Yes, both improved the sound in the system, both in different ways.
So, why is there such uproar when I tell you (big surprise) that the process I've been using for 10 years is faster than the process I've been using for a month? Why is it so outside comprehension that it's possible for me to be more efficient using a parametric eq or DSP for SUBWOOFERS ONLY than Trinnov or Dirac? They are new tools that I'm still getting used-to. You see what Trinnov gives me, you see what Dirac gave me.
Whether you want to believe it or not, every now and then, the machine doesn't know what it's looking at. That slows the calibrator down. In THIS ROOM, I know more than the machine- I know what works and what doesn't with these subwoofers, the box doesn't because neither box listened to what happens when all are excited at the same time.Also, how does a computer determine a metric for how articulate a sub is? What do you adjust to make an array of subs more articulate? What do you think multiple subs in a room is? one channel split x-ways all playing at the same level?
That works when they are all identical. What if you have 3 12" subs and 1 18" sub? What if you have 2 horn-subs that crap-out at 30 hz? What do you do then to blend-in something below 30? Does ARCOS or SFM or Audyssey know how to do that? How about 4 22" woofers for LFE only, another 4x12"s for front LR full-range signals, and another 8x12"s in the ceiling to tame room modes? Can Trinnov figure that out? Arcos, SFM, how about a guy with a decade of experience doing systems like that with a BSS Soundweb London Blu 160 (that's what the SDEC is, only the SDEC is pre-programmed- the BSS is a blank-slate).
Now one final time let me state clearly:
BOTH DIRAC AND TRINNOV CAN OPTIMIZE THE ENTIRE THEATER. BOTH MACHINES DID A GREAT JOB WITH THE EQ OF THE SUBS, BUT RELATIVE LEVELS REQUIRED WORK. considering we're talking what's essentially a first-time usage for both machines, I'd say that's pretty good.
As of 12/24/11 I am faster at optimizing multiple (4+) subwoofers manually, than I
am at optimizing multiple (4+) subwoofers with either Trinnov or Dirac, and therefore PREFER to do that manually. ME, NOT THE PROGRAMS!!!
Satisfactory results? to whom? what's satisfactory to you might not be satisfactory to me. What if satisfactory to the person that programmed your optimization system is not satisfactory to you? That's a slippery slope.