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Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! - Page 14

post #391 of 1408
Wow, this looks hot.
post #392 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

ADA Cinema Reference has been announced:

http://www.ada.net/press/index.php?view=134

That's an impressive unit - addresses any 'D to A' and 'A to D' conversion concerns. I wonder how much it will be?

Just lacks the supermodel looks of the Datasat!
post #393 of 1408
Holy mackeral, talk about the Death Star of audio processors! 16 channels of Trinnov built-in (no A/D-D/A).

Cut Sheet
post #394 of 1408
We also have a Rhapsody and an RS20 at our demo facility in the UK. Richard is bringing a reference over for ISE at the end of the month so I know that I wll be very keen to find out how well it can perform.
post #395 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post

We also have a Rhapsody and an RS20 at our demo facility in the UK. Richard is bringing a reference over for ISE at the end of the month so I know that I wll be very keen to find out how well it can perform.

Neil - I saw the avforums video of your excellent demo facilities - I expect they would sound fantastic. Have you established a preference/assessment between the ADA and the Datasat?
post #396 of 1408
Thread Starter 
Well, I'm glad that cat is out of the bag. Do you now how hard it's been to keep quiet about that thing?

Dan
post #397 of 1408
OMG ! Wow just wow. I really wish you guys hadn't made my pre/pro choice so difficult
post #398 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Holy mackeral, talk about the Death Star of audio processors! 16 channels of Trinnov built-in (no A/D-D/A).

Plus you can expand it to 32 ch by adding a TEQ-16 slave (which I assume does require A/D-D/A, but that could be applied to lesser channels, e.g. subs, surrounds, etc). (this forum needs a homer drooling smiley).
post #399 of 1408
Thread Starter 
I believe MSRP will be in the $30k range.

remember; Rhapsody+TEQ-12 = $24k

Dan
post #400 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

Plus you can expand it to 32 ch by adding a TEQ-16 slave (which I assume does require A/D-D/A, but that could be applied to lesser channels, e.g. subs, surrounds, etc). (this forum needs a homer drooling smiley).

I see there is a separate ethernet connection on the TEQ section, so I'm thinking that perhaps the slave would run off the ethernet connection. Otherwise, I don't follow how you would get 32 distinct channels out from two boxes, if the 16 analog out from one box went into the 16 analog in on the second box.

If so, having 32 channels of digital processing with no extra ADA conversions is quite the feature set!
post #401 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

I believe MSRP will be in the $30k range.

remember; Rhapsody+TEQ-12 = $24k

Dan

+TEQ-4 to match the 16 channels = $32K. So this is actually cheaper for 16 channels, plus has no extra ADA conversion and the front planel display.
post #402 of 1408
I see that the cat is out of the bag.

Yes, we are launching the Cinema Reference Mach IV at CES and for anyone interested in seeing her, please stop by Suite 30-311 at the Venetian.

As for the 16 channel expansion, that will be via a FireWire connection that has yet to make it onto the prototype. By the time we begin shipping units in Q2, it will be there.

The price is not yet set in stone (but we are taking orders. That said, expect it to be north of the numbers mentioned here most likely close to $40k. Unfortunately, you can't simply add up TEQ versions to arrive at a price. There is much more involved in order to handle potentially 32 channels.

Wishing everyone a healthy and happy 2012.

Richard
post #403 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

Plus you can expand it to 32 ch by adding a TEQ-16 slave (which I assume does require A/D-D/A, but that could be applied to lesser channels, e.g. subs, surrounds, etc).

Considering the back panel of the TEQ-12 is has no room left, the TEQ-16 would have to be a new unit. In which case, I'm surprised they didn't announce it along with the Reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

I believe MSRP will be in the $30k range.

Mama mia, that's a spicy meat-a-ball.
post #404 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

I see that the cat is out of the bag.

Yes, we are launching the Cinema Reference Mach IV at CES and for anyone interested in seeing her, please stop by Suite 30-311 at the Venetian.

As for the 16 channel expansion, that will be via a FireWire connection that has yet to make it onto the prototype. By the time we begin shipping units in Q2, it will be there.

The price is not yet set in stone (but we are taking orders. That said, expect it to be north of the numbers mentioned here most likely close to $40k. Unfortunately, you can't simply add up TEQ versions to arrive at a price. There is much more involved in order to handle potentially 32 channels.

Wishing everyone a healthy and happy 2012.

Richard

Thanks for clarifying, again, 32 channels of processing with no extra ADA conversions is quite an accomplishment! Since there is such an abundance of channels, will this have all the latest decoding such as Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo X too? Or are all those channels meant for bi, tri, or even quad amping?
post #405 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

As for the 16 channel expansion, that will be via a FireWire connection

That's nice, so no further A/D-D/A conversion is required for any of 32 channels being processed

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Considering the back panel of the TEQ-12 is has no room left, the TEQ-16 would have to be a new unit. In which case, I'm surprised they didn't announce it along with the Reference.

They mentioned it in the link you provided.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Mama mia, that's a spicy meat-a-ball.

Considering the price of a stand alone Trinnov, it is not exactly surprising (particularly if it does not sacrifice any of the TEQ's processing power).
post #406 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

Thanks for clarifying, again, 32 channels of processing with no extra ADA conversions is quite an accomplishment! Since there is such an abundance of channels, will this have all the latest decoding such as Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo X too? Or are all those channels meant for bi, tri, or even quad amping?

The JBL Synthesis processor can also go that high (or higher. If I remember Amir's posts correctly, at one point he was processing 40 ch at his store). The Datasat case has room for more boards, but I doubt they are planning to add more than the current 16 ch (at least not in the near future).
post #407 of 1408
Wow, 40k puts it well above my budget. Back to the "budget" rs20i !
post #408 of 1408
"... The Datasat case has room for more boards, but I doubt they are planning to add more than the current 16 ch (at least not in the near future)."

It is practical to add active crossover outputs to the RS20i using cards plugged into the expansion slots. Each of the 16 channels of Dirac Live could service 'n' number of active crossover channels out. I don't really know what the limit on channels out would be. The RS20i was designed for such things. My question is, "Is there a need (market??) for that many channels?"
____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #409 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

Since there is such an abundance of channels, will this have all the latest decoding such as Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo X too?

Doubt it will have DSX, since it isn't using Audyssey room correcton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

Or are all those channels meant for bi, tri, or even quad amping?

Since Neo:X tops out at 11 channels, I'm guessing that 32 channels means bandpassed outputs for tweeters, mids, woofers, subs.
post #410 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_ADA View Post

That said, expect it to be north of the numbers mentioned here most likely close to $40k.

Is that ballpark just for the Reference or also including the TEQ-16 slave unit?
post #411 of 1408
Thread Starter 
Just the Cinema Reference Mach4.

Dan
post #412 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

It is practical to add active crossover outputs to the RS20i using cards plugged into the expansion slots. Each of the 16 channels of Dirac Live could service 'n' number of active crossover channels out. I don't really know what the limit on channels out would be. The RS20i was designed for such things. My question is, "Is there a need (market??) for that many channels?"

My needs seem to rarely match the market needs, so I probably am a poor barometer But each of my speakers is being biamped, so if I wanted to go 11.1 with 4 subs, that would make another 11 ch...make it 32 ch to have some spare ch for the future (you never know)
post #413 of 1408
If they are biamped why do you need more channels ? I assume you are talking about active filtering.
post #414 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFGuy View Post

If they are biamped why do you need more channels ? I assume you are talking about active filtering.

Yes, that is why Datasat was of interest to me before I even found out about Dirac Live. SSP with16 ch out (dig/analog) are not very common, and Datasat's SSP x-over tools and digital/analog outputs gave me the flexibility I was looking for (I considered Tact but they seemed to have some problem with their products becoming very expensive bricks).
post #415 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Aah, okay. That makes sense to me now. However it is unfortunate that the Trinnov signal is forced to go thru an additional 'D to A' and 'A to D' conversion when making the comparision between Dirac Live and the Trinnov IP.

Just a 'bonehead idea' but ...

You could use the RS20i as the digital source for the Trinnov box, shutting off the Dirac Live runtime and all other EQ when feeding the TEQ. That would avoid that extra conversion and better compare Dirac Live to Trinnov optimization. Doing that they would be sharing a common decoder. If you did that the differences in what you hear would only be the optimization IP and of course the 'exit end' D to A converters for the respective products.
____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Unfortunately due to the insanity of HDCP this would not be such a fair comparison either. The RS20i would be forced, after receiving a full 48/24 signal and upsampling it to 96Hz, to downrez it to 48/16. The Trinnov would be receiving a different source than in Dan's A/D/A method. One would be comparing the Trinnov with a 48/16 downrezzed source with no A/D/A against one never downrezzed but with an A/D/A.

I think the final DACs will have more influence on the sound, but the methodology would be so complex I don't know how you would ever seperate it out.
post #416 of 1408
Yea, you are right George ...

There are unfortunate compromises no matter what he does.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #417 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Holy mackeral, talk about the Death Star of audio processors! 16 channels of Trinnov built-in (no A/D-D/A).

Cut Sheet

But if I understood correctly, still no capability to adjust the target curve to taste, unless there's PEQ that wasn't mentioned in the cut sheet.
post #418 of 1408
Thread Starter 
Trinnov is built-in; that has target curve adjustment- see my screen posts from the TEQ. The user interface is the same for all Trinnov, residential or commercial.

Dan
post #419 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

But if I understood correctly, still no capability to adjust the target curve to taste, unless there's PEQ that wasn't mentioned in the cut sheet.

I thought Trinnov had a default target curve, but allowed you to edit to taste?

From the TEQ page on ADA's website:

"ADA's TEQ processes this data and while applying SMPT, RIAA or custom target curves, corrects position, elevation, phase, and amplitude among dozens of other parameters."
post #420 of 1408
And the price tag of this new processor is ?? (My guess would be well north of $20,000)
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