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Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! - Page 29

post #841 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

The 16 channels of the RS20i may sound like overkill. However if your system is truly SOTA you will quickly consume those channels. A typical case in point, think of a 7.4 system with 2 way active crossovers for L, C and R. Boom! You just spent 14 channels. That leaves you with a stereo pair to spend in another room.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Fair enough - this market exists, but this would still be a small niche. I think there is a much bigger market for more mainstream 5.1 and 7.1 users, that is not being served by anyone with a combo of sota DRC, DACs and post-processing / decoding.
post #842 of 1408
sorry, what do you mean for "SOTA"?redface.gif
post #843 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Most real world consumer application are 5.1 or may be 7.1. The world needs a single box processor with sota DRC (Dirac or Trinnov), full processing and decoding capabilities, sota DACs, deault 8 channel and expandable to more. IM, the ADA reference at $40K and RS20i are both overshooting the mark in hardware and probably undershooting in useability for the non-pro user. The ADA + Trinnov 2 box solution is a big architectural compromise. The CBIII HD / Dirac (with new DAC cards!) would foot the bill. Realistically, it could be a long way out.
I suspect such a package will be available at a 10-15k pricepoint in 3-4 years time. Theta may lead the way, or be leapfrogged. Who knows.

Are you serious...3 to 4 yrs? I Certainly didn't know that!
post #844 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

The 16 channels of the RS20i may sound like overkill. However if your system is truly SOTA you will quickly consume those channels. A typical case in point, think of a 7.4 system with 2 way active crossovers for L, C and R. Boom! You just spent 14 channels. That leaves you with a stereo pair to spend in another room.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Still, personally I don't need any of that. I currently don't even have subwoofers as my mains are full range and sold all the subs. I value "simplification" these days and I may not be the only one...

I repeat the datasat is very very appealing to me because of feature package, Dirac and full digital out from each channel- that's a great feature for digital active speakers. But it's too "big" of a box at the moment.
post #845 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Are you serious...3 to 4 yrs? I Certainly didn't know that!

Obviously, Theta will get there a lot sooner, but not at the $10-15K pricepoint, and some "digital age" feautures will be missing.

3-4 years is my estimate for the a processor that incorporates the latest DAC technology, does all the DRC processing (real time engine like Trinnov, not downloadable filters from a PC) inside the same box. It would also support USB inputs and host a music server with DLNA streaming support. You can build a lot of features into a very powerfull processor box. The bits and pieces are al there. Problem is integration and getting it to work seamlessly, while many standards are a moving target.
post #846 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

sorry, what do you mean for "SOTA"?redface.gif

SOTA is short for "State Of The Art"
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #847 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Still, personally I don't need any of that. I currently don't even have subwoofers as my mains are full range and sold all the subs. I value "simplification" these days and I may not be the only one...
I repeat the datasat is very very appealing to me because of feature package, Dirac and full digital out from each channel- that's a great feature for digital active speakers. But it's too "big" of a box at the moment.

Meridian is pricey, but would meet your needs. 861 v4 go for peanuts though.

Oops. What was I thinking? Unless you have meridian speakers, encrypted digital won't do the trick.
post #848 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Meridian is pricey, but would meet your needs. 861 v4 go for peanuts though.
Oops. What was I thinking? Unless you have meridian speakers, encrypted digital won't do the trick.

That's right... Encryption is a no no. I don't have meridian loudspeakers and there arent many choices for me.
post #849 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

That's right... Encryption is a no no. I don't have meridian loudspeakers and there arent many choices for me.

Do you need 5 channels digital out?
post #850 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Do you need 5 channels digital out?

just 4.. Even if the processor would allow me to do digital for the front soeakers and analog for the surrounds it would be more the
An welcome
post #851 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

just 4.. Even if the processor would allow me to do digital for the front soeakers and analog for the surrounds it would be more the
An welcome

Check PM. I have spend the last month figuring this one out and can point you in the right direction.
post #852 of 1408
SoundChex,

I appreciate your informative posts, but the many formatting variations makes them hard to read.

I presume it's to convey importance/emphasis, but it's lost in the shear volume, and I have no idea of the relative rankingsof italics/bold/color.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

This somewhat-light-on-substance 8/1/2012 article in What Hi Fi com, "The ultimate home cinema processor – and how film premieres at home are on the way" (link), provides a 'quick overview' of both Datasat itself and the RS20i processor. The article's major value would seem to be that it provides a "true as of yesterday" reaffirmation of previous Datasat "statements of intent".
The mention that "as soon as certification is achieved it will be upgraded with a Dolby TrueHD decoder card" reminds me the RS20i appears capable for that TrueHD decoder card itself to be replaced by a (Home) Dolby Atmos decoder card when the time is right.
_
post #853 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

The 16 channels of the RS20i may sound like overkill. However if your system is truly SOTA you will quickly consume those channels. A typical case in point, think of a 7.4 system with 2 way active crossovers for L, C and R. Boom! You just spent 14 channels. That leaves you with a stereo pair to spend in another room.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
we are up to 14 channels using the 7.4 set up you have listed. but alsoyou can use the monitor output to run two 7.1 systems in different rooms ( cinema and bedroom ) both soon with Dirac.
post #854 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by abone View Post

we are up to 14 channels using the 7.4 set up you have listed. but alsoyou can use the monitor output to run two 7.1 systems in different rooms ( cinema and bedroom ) both soon with Dirac.

You could daisy-chain a couple of these and have whole-house 7.1 -- great for Superbowl parties
Or you could one-up your show-off neighbor with the fancy home theater by building a fancy home cineplex -- one showing G for the kiddies; another R for the adults.
post #855 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

You could daisy-chain a couple of these and have whole-house 7.1 -- great for Superbowl parties
Or you could one-up your show-off neighbor with the fancy home theater by building a fancy home cineplex -- one showing G for the kiddies; another R for the adults.

at some point it makes sense to just get superbowl tickets
post #856 of 1408
(crazy) Question for Carl:

Let's assume that a set of speakers in a system is comprised of a mix of digital-dsp type and conventional analog. I expect your datasat being very sofisticated, but would it be up to the point to be able to drive a mix of digital channels with conventional ones at the same time in the same system and have them equalized by Dirac too? I may be asking too much I realized its also a strange question.
post #857 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

(crazy) Question for Carl:
Let's assume that a set of speakers in a system is comprised of a mix of digital-dsp type and conventional analog. I expect your datasat being very sofisticated, but would it be up to the point to be able to drive a mix of digital channels with conventional ones at the same time in the same system and have them equalized by Dirac too? I may be asking too much I realized its also a strange question.

Unfortunately no, the RS20i needs to see all digital or all analog inputs.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #858 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Unfortunately no, the RS20i needs to see all digital or all analog inputs.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

I think the question is about mixing analog/digtial outputs, not inputs. This should not be a problem I would think.
post #859 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I think the question is about mixing analog/digtial outputs, not inputs. This should not be a problem I would think.

Aah! If that is the case I misunderstood and you are correct!

What appears on the digital out for each channel is identical to the analog out for that same channel.
____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #860 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl_Huff View Post

Aah! If that is the case I misunderstood and you are correct!
What appears on the digital out for each channel is identical to the analog out for that same channel.
____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Ah... I take it as a yes. So, I could have digital out to my fron speakers and analog to remanding ones. That's Really good to know.

Thanks
post #861 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Ah... I take it as a yes. So, I could have digital out to my fron speakers and analog to remanding ones. That's Really good to know.
Thanks

That is exactly what I do with my Trinnov, albeit with digi out to a DAC for front, not speakers.
post #862 of 1408
Quote:
Ah... I take it as a yes. So, I could have digital out to my fron speakers and analog to remanding ones. That's Really good to know.

There are two limitations: 1) you cannot set Levels with digital outputs, so you must have an external way of setting the calibration level for the digital outputs. 2) You can use the graphic and parametric equalizers but you must be careful of clipping the signal if you apply gain.
post #863 of 1408
Quote:
we are up to 14 channels using the 7.4 set up you have listed. but also you can use the monitor output to run two 7.1 systems in different rooms ( cinema and bedroom ) both soon with Dirac.

How does the one-channel monitor output allow you to run two 7.1 systems?
post #864 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post

There are two limitations: 1) you cannot set Levels with digital outputs, so you must have an external way of setting the calibration level for the digital outputs. 2) You can use the graphic and parametric equalizers but you must be careful of clipping the signal if you apply gain.

This would be a dealbreaker. The digital speaker assume you apply volume control in the digital domain before the speaker. If you cannot do digital domain volume control for the analog and digital outputs in the Dirac simultaneously, you cannot keep the channels in synch. If the Dirac does not do digital domain volume control you cannot use the digital outputs to drive digital speakers period.
post #865 of 1408
I was specifically referring to calibration levels not volume control. With multichannel you need someway of balancing (leveling, calibrating) the channels.

The overall volume control works fine on both the digital and analog outputs.
Edited by GGA - 8/3/12 at 12:42pm
post #866 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post

I was specifically referring to calibration levels not volume control. With multichannel you need someway of balancing (leveling, calibrating) the channels.

Got it. So you can control volume but you cannot trim levels. This would still be problematic in an real world application. In the Trinnov, during calibration you go through all channels and the Trinnov measures volume (for digital and analog outputs) of the individual speakers and level matches them. However, you cannot manually adjust these trim levels afterwords, nor can you say crank up the center channel relative to other channels. This is something I like to do when listening to movies late at night when the family is asleep to hear dialogue louder than crashes / explostions.
post #867 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

This would be a dealbreaker. The digital speaker assume you apply volume control in the digital domain before the speaker. If you cannot do digital domain volume control for the analog and digital outputs in the Dirac simultaneously, you cannot keep the channels in synch. If the Dirac does not do digital domain volume control you cannot use the digital outputs to drive digital speakers period.

I was just thinking about that... it would be impossible to deal with volume control simultaneously on both digital and analog if processor doesn't deal digitally on the analog output.
How do you deal with your setup when it comes to alter the volume? I still don't understand that.
post #868 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGA View Post

I was specifically referring to calibration levels not volume control. With multichannel you need someway of balancing (leveling, calibrating) the channels.
The overall volume control works fine on both the digital and analog outputs.

Maybe I miss understood your post... Wouldnt be the same as calibrating front left and front right channels in digital domain? In my system Dirac applies the level for each of the speakers.
post #869 of 1408
You are quite right that Dirac will determine the levels. It is that you cannot modify the digital levels with the Level control in the RS20i if you wanted to fine tune or experiment.
post #870 of 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

I was just thinking about that... it would be impossible to deal with volume control simultaneously on both digital and analog if processor doesn't deal digitally on the analog output.
How do you deal with your setup when it comes to alter the volume? I still don't understand that.

If you run all channels through the Trinnov, this is not a problem, because all (digital and analog) channels are controlled with the same digital volume control in the Trinnov. Apparently this is how Dirac works as well. Difference is trim level. Trinnov calibrates the channels levels (digital and analog) during calibration, apparently the Dirac does not if you mix digital and analog outs.

Since I do not run all my 5 channels through the Trinnov, I work differently. I have digital volume in Trinnov fixed, and run all channels through my Six Shooter analog volume control. I will soon to a setup where I control 3 channels on the Trinnov and 2 on a Meridan SSP, and synch them up with a macro on iRule. Both Trinnov and Meridian has RS232 and 1 db volume increment steps, so this will be very easy to do.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) › Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!!