Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! - Page 30

You obviously you don't mind complexity. But I'm looking for simplicity. One box solution is what I'm looking for.

Now, while I still don't know the exact cost of the Datasat, but I have an idea of what it coud, I'm also looking Tact tcs mkiii. However it concerned me the lack of information on their website. That page must have been under construction forever! And if I click on more general info about the product I have to login!!?
So, back to datasat. Can you please Carl pm me detailed price information?
Thank you

I don't think this is true. You can still season to taste after doing a calibration.

According to the manual and my experience the digital output trim (level, balance, calibration for Digital Out 1-8, 9-16) cannot be adjusted up or down using the Audio Level control. The Audio Level control is actually labeled "Analog."

Dirac Live will match the level of each channel including analog and digital, assuming the speakers/amps are close enough in sensitivity/gain.

The overall Master Volume Control controls both the digital and analog outputs simultaneously.

One can add gain or cut of the digital (and analog) outputs (Digital 1-8, 9-16) using the graphic and parametric equalizers. One has to be careful as one can cause digital clipping with too much gain.

The Dirac works the same way; i.e. it calibrates the channel levels (digital and analog) during calibration.

Here is what one of the field engineers from Datasat had to say about this:

"...Changes can be made to the Dirac curve in the program and then sent to the RS20i (all 16 channels). When using the analog output, individual channel levels can be adjusted in the RS20i software menu. If using the Digital Output, all channels are at 100% digital output, so individual channels can not be adjusted. Using the Digital Volume feature it is possible to lower the output using the fader knob (all channels). If you are using Analog Out, you have full control over setting individual output channel levels; Digital Output the fader can be used to lower the overall output of all channels. If you have a need to adjust individual channel outputs on Digital, you may be able to attenuate using the component you are connecting."

Excellent and clear summary. They should put that in the manual. Thanks for getting the information.

I don't think there is anything that contradicts what I said. You cannot adjust the level of a digital out channel using the Audio Levels control.

Nice, I should have the rs20i soon. Looking forward to getting in use.

JapanDave - hope you can share your thoughts on if you notice any differences (particularly audio) between the AP20 and the RS20i.
Edited by stephenbr - 8/17/12 at 2:10pm

Yes , certainly.
I did solve the problem. It turns out I can't be in the same room with high powered amps. So I have all my amps outside the room now and I have to run very long speaker cables, but well worth it to stop the pain I was getting.

Hey Dave,
Followed all your steps, what a struggle that was. I'm glad you determined what component was causing it. Are you familiar with the physiology behind the issue?

I have no idea why I can't be in the same room as high powered amp's. I don't even need one to be hooked up to a speaker and I start getting pain in my ears, as long as it is turned on.

Wow Dave,...I remember you saying just that.

Bottom line being, you recognized the issue, and at least you can move forward from here. Those were truly some agonizing posts when you were going through it. Clearly you were uncomfortable.

Best of luck

Can the Dirac kit be bought by end users and the Dirac measurements and calibration done by end users as well or is this strictly dealer territory (as another site than this one suggests)?

The dirac installer kit, here in uk, can only be purchased by a dealer for the sum of £2500 inclusive of a 2 day training course.

It is not intended for the end user. Both the kit and procedure are certainly not like that of audyssey, for eg.

I have digital active speakers. The RS20i has digital outputs. Is it correct that all sound from HDMI inputs of the RS20i will be downsampled to 16 Bit/48 Khz so the full quality of many Blu Ray soundtracks will never reach my speakers in an all digital chain? If so, can this be avoided by using another digital input into the RS20i?

What does the kit involve? I have a Audix mic with a sound devices preamp and used with my laptop I can make all the measurements I need.

There is nothing hard about configuring Dirac Live on the RS20i. I invite JapanDave and others to describe their experience.
____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Unfortunately the HDMI license that all hardware vendors have to sign dictates that anything coming in on HDMI cannot leave the box in digital form at a rate higher than 48/16 bit. However in the case of the RS20i any non HDMI signal coming into the box can leave at rates up to and including 192/24 bit.
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff

Sounds to me like you will be wanting an oppo 93 with the vanity 8 channel spdif output. Down sampling problem solved.

I'm aware of that option. The Oppo is not my favourite BD player, though. I find it sluggish in reacting to the remote control, it causes lengthy HDMI handshakes with my Lumagen and it has issues with playing files with high bit rates (but within BD specs).

I got my Oppo digi out board up and running on mulit channel (I did a proof of concept on 2 channel) this week end and all I can see this approach puts to shame anything else I have heard in my system. For MCH this is basically:

Oppo 93 HDMI -> ADA -> Trinnov (with A/D conversion) -> Perfectwave MKII DAC for mains, Trinnov DAC for Center, ADA Dac for surrounds
Marantz ud9004 -> Six Shooter -> Trinnov (with A/D conversion) -> Perfectwave MKII DAC for mains, Trinnov DAC for Center, Marantz Dac for surrounds

The Oppo digital into the Trinnov beats both these signal paths by a mile, for SACD this runs at 88/24 (the Trinnov does not support 176/24, although the Oppo will output it), and for BR you will get native resolution.

My only problem is I have not gotten RS232 to work on the Trinnov, and I have a four channel unit. So I run the surrounds through another DAC. To synch up volume control for now I need to operate two remote controls. One I got Trinnov RS232 sorted out this will be taken care off through a macro in iRule. Since you have plenty channels on your datasat I you will not have any of these issues, and you can just plug in the modded Oppo and you're good to go. PM me if you want more detail.

My setup is a bit more complex, but if I had 10K to spend and want to get the very best (sans EQ) 8k could buy, here is what I would do:

Get a modded Oppo ($1500)
Get 3 x wyred 4 sound DAC2 ($4500)
Get a good SSP for less critical sources (satellite TV) (Marants / Onkyo?) ($2000)
Good digital cabling (essential! $1000-$2000)

You run the Oppo into the DACs and control all three DACs with a single remote control. Alternatively, synch up control of the DACs with iRule macros.
You run the SSP into the analog bypass of the DACs

Very simple, and I promise you for 8K you will have a setup that will beat the crap out of ANYTHING south of a 20K SSP.

If you have more to spend, replace the wyred 4 sound DACs with Bel Canto DACs - get a 3.5 for mains, and a 2.5 for center/sub/surrounds and their powersupply. This would be in the 12K range and be the best money can buy, short of 40K worht of EMM labs kit for SACD. Since everything is in the digital domain, there are various options of running this signal through EQ / room corrections if you don't mind the complexity - including pro stuff like Beyer. The sky is the limit.
Edited by edorr - 8/20/12 at 8:26am

How does one instruct the Oppo to output 176 PCM from SACD? And if it is switchable, why would it not work with the HDMI output like it does in PS3?

The Oppo digi board cannot convert DSD to PCM at 176/24. It does so at 88/24 which is what you get out of your HDMI.

When the Oppo is set to DSD out, it sends a DSD signal to the custom digi out board, which does its own clocking and LPCM conversion. This can be done at 176/24 or 88/24 selectable through dipswitch. I tried both and 176/24 is better, but since the Trinnov is restricted to 96/24 I run SACD at 88/24. It it still the cusom conversion and clocking which is superior to the Oppo's though.

I would say track down your Dealer that's where the problem lies,
I have met Richard over here in the UK at CEDIA and is a very genuine guy.
Any company that acted like that would not last one year never mind over 30,
I do not know the reson for ADA not responding to you but I would contact them
explaining the situation and the lack of response from your Dealer.

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However much I sympathize with Kamenoff, can we not turn this thread into a he said she thread. This thread has a lot to offer in regards to those who are interested in both these units. Kamenoff please start another thread voicing your concerns.

Trinnov have a new baby out:

http://www.trinnov.com/tri_news/trinnov-unveils-magnitude32/

Interesting! I cant seem to figure out how this product differ from the already existing Trinnov component? Other than a new look.