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Vegas Pro 11 released - Page 6

post #151 of 564
Ok, thanks for the advice.
I just test the same clip with an i7 2600K CPU only : 30% faster.
So I doubt that a GTX 580 with my QX9650 will deliver more than 30%. And As you said, the preview is not accelerated much.
I think to reserve my money for an i7 3930K.
post #152 of 564
I'm still having a bit of trouble with Vegas 11, so let me do my very best to describe my workflow. Shooting with my JVC at the highest quality, then using the Edius trial I use Josephs settings which seem to get rid of the judder. The settings are,

Choose the "HD 1920x1080 59.94 16:9 8 bit" preset when you start a new project.

Click the "Advanced" box and "Enable" Stereoscopic Editing.


Go to File>Export>Print to file...

Select the H.264/AVC Exporter Plug-in.

Double click it in the right panel.

Set my preferred data rate and other parameters under "Basic Settings." I used VBR, average bitrate of 34 mbps and max bitrate of 40 mbps
Then I render either a Top/bottom or left/right .mp4 with these settings. (No matter which render I use I still get the problem in Vegas.

Alright, so once I get the .mp4 file I open Vegas 11. I click on File, Properties and make a Custom template using 3840x1080 for SBS Full or 2160x1920 Top/Bottom full. This makes the preview window kinda long and skinny looking when I use top bottom.

I then Import the .mp4 into Vegas and right click it then click on properties and choose Side by Side full or Top/Bottom Full. If I choose SBS full using a side by side .mp4 it makes the preview window super long and skinny with 2 pictures of my video far apart.
If I choose Top/Bottom it makes the preview window long and narrow.

Now, if I render a full sbs .mp4 I click on render as, then choose Main Concept AVC/AAC.mp4 then I choose internet HD 1080p and click customize template. I make the width 3840 and the height 1080 under frame size and under Project I choose side by side full. Then I render.. This gives me a widescreen file with black bars on top and bottom, not full screen like I want.

If I render as a full top bottom I do the same thing but type the width 2160 and height as 1920 and choose Top/Bottom full under project then render. This results kinda the same way. I am not getting full screen like I wish. Sometimes I get weird looking ones that are half my video.

I know I must be doing something wrong but can't seem to figure it out?!

All I'd like is to take the .mp4 files from Edius and edit them in Vegas and render to top/bottom or SBS full and put into Power Director 10.

The only reason I wanna edit in Vegas is because I know it a bit better and color corrections work so much better on it then Edius or PD10.
post #153 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

John- been pretty busy today as I became a grandfather for the second time. 9 lbs but grandson has some problems at birth with pneumothorax and fortunately is recovering fine. My daughter is doing fine but Daddy is a nervous wreck.

Anyway, I believe you may be using an internet rendering template. I don't know why but yes this template series will produce half NTSC frame rate which in the "old days" was called internet video frame rate. In early versions of MP4 rendering, the default was to half the frame rate for internet bandwidth speed. In the 'old days" when the pioneers were first doing video clips for internet distribution, the SOP was to render at this reduced rate of 15 fps (nominal). You may not be a newbie to video but I believe you may not have worked in the early days of the mid 90's when we were developing ways to do video and 15fps was a common practice regardless of what codec we used.

Anyway, you should not be using this collection of codecs unless you are trying to render for slow internet connect speeds or other low bandwidth applications. Frankly I don't know why Vegas is still including this template format ion the 21st century. It is not a bug. It is a legacy antique render format. If it makes you feel any better, I will confirm that every render template I tested in this collection will automatically half the frame rate. On the last tab for project please select Top Bottom FULL and use Best as render quality. You can turn on the audio track too if you need to use it for program or just for syncing to a PCM 5.1 track. More to follow...

What I was concerned with was I thought you were complaining that the proper render templates for blue ray or MVC were not able to render at full frame rate selected.

Here is a template I use for transport of the video in Full HD to PD10 for generating 1080 24p x 1920 3D Blu Ray with menus. This produces very smooth 24p equal to that I get with commercial disks. No, it is not as smooth on high motion as 720 60P but for the best overall quality, I don't think I can ask for more than equal to commercial quality.

Don you litterly helped and saved my frustration. I was trying to render 24p this evening and got only half the frame rate. Only till I read your response on the internet framerate, it suddenly made sense to me. Thanks.
post #154 of 564
Quote:


Alright, so once I get the .mp4 file I open Vegas 11. I click on File, Properties and make a Custom template using 3840x1080 for SBS Full or 2160x1920 Top/Bottom full. This makes the preview window kinda long and skinny looking when I use top bottom.

You may have the pixel count backwards. For top bottom the preview should look nearly square.
post #155 of 564
I am choosing 1.0000 (Square) under pixel aspect ratio when using top and bottom full. This causes the preview window to be long and narrow... Either one I choose causes the preview to look weird. Rendering results are the same, widescreen with black bars above and below. Never full screen. Pixel count is not backwards.

What should the pixel aspect ratio be set as? I am wondering why my preview looks strange yet when I render it comes out widescreen...
Its driving me insane, I am trying to get some work done and Vegas is not doing full screen like I want.... And Vegas is the only program that allows me to fix color corrections and not give me any distortion, PD10 and Edius are giving me a bit of distortion when correcting the colors.
post #156 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravia3D View Post

I am choosing 1.0000 (Square) under pixel aspect ratio when using top and bottom full. This causes the preview window to be long and narrow... Either one I choose causes the preview to look weird. Rendering results are the same, widescreen with black bars above and below. Never full screen. Pixel count is not backwards.

What should the pixel aspect ratio be set as? I am wondering why my preview looks strange yet when I render it comes out widescreen...
Its driving me insane, I am trying to get some work done and Vegas is not doing full screen like I want.... And Vegas is the only program that allows me to fix color corrections and not give me any distortion, PD10 and Edius are giving me a bit of distortion when correcting the colors.

What happens when you choose Left only as project properties? What do you see in the preview?
post #157 of 564
The preview window shows a perfect square with my video in the middle very thin and not full screen or even widescreen, it's quite thin and long in the square.
post #158 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravia3D View Post

The preview window shows a perfect square with my video in the middle very thin and not full screen or even widescreen, it's quite thin and long in the square.

Does it have black bars around the video?
post #159 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravia3D View Post

The preview window shows a perfect square with my video in the middle very thin and not full screen or even widescreen, it's quite thin and long in the square.

Can you mail 1 min. of your footage? I can try in my vegas.
post #160 of 564
Pixel AR should be 1.0 Your height of the full frame (in your preview) should be 2 x 1080 or 2160 and the width should be 1 x 1920 or 1920. That would make a rectangle that is 1920 units wide by 2160 tall. The two images need to be one above the other.
But do not change the Project properties as your output frame in the final viewing is still 1080 x 1920 PAR is still 1.0

It appears to me you do not fully understand what the edit software is doing in your setup. You do not understand what each setting is doing for preview and what it does and is needed for output. What you see in your preview window is NOT what you will get in output. What you set in the project Properties is the pixels you get in your output. The stereoscopic 3D setting is the 3D format. Still confused?

You set the 3D stereoscopic to Top Bottom Full in the File/ Properties and then in the Preview window, right click and select video preview and set that to top / bottom full just to show the size of the frame as it is saved in the file.

Further to clarify- when I said the frame size will be 2160 x 1920, I did not mean to imply you change the project to that pixel ratio, just that is what you will get when you select Top Bottom Full.

However, in the render as, you do select a frame size as 2160 vertical by 1920 horizontal Top Bottom Full 1.0 PAR. This will not change the preview window.
LL
LL
post #161 of 564
Alrighty, I now understand what I was doing wrong. I was changing the Project properties as the output frame which caused my problems.
This is my first time trying to work with top/bottom full and learning as I go. I usually use sbs half in Vegas. I realize the preview window is not what I will get in the output, but because of my error I was getting different views.
Now I am getting a full screen file like I wanted to import to PD10

Thanks Don You are a Vegas master!
post #162 of 564
Glad you got it figured out. It works the same as for SBS too so I don't know why you thought that needed changing for TB.

Normally, I use my Vegas preview window in Left only while editing and have the secondary monitor set for SBS Half which lets me evaluate Z depth and convergence and 3D collisions. I only set up the Preview with TB Full to show you what the output would look like if we render and displayed in, say, Windows Media Player.

As a reminder- Please understand that as an intermediate format, I only use TB Full over SBS Full to go from Vegas to PD10. Wolfgang prefers SBS Full but I had trouble with big artifacts in the left eye image that I could never get rid of while TB Full was mysteriously absent of the trouble. IMO, it doesn't matter which you use, whatever works. Your final product will be a BD at full resolution in frame packing anyway from PD10.

Lately, I have been doing the output from PD10 to a hard drive folder rather than burn a costly blank disk. Then, using DVD Fab, I create an ISO file from that folder and put the ISO file on an ext hard drive and play from that using my Oppo BD-93. Now I have Blu Ray 3D with menus but avoid the cost and storage of burned media. Buying those blank BD-R was getting expensive! I still use BD-RE to do some testing.
post #163 of 564
can you guys give me instruction how to converted 3d 50gb into 3d 25gb bluray?
post #164 of 564
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Normally, I use my Vegas preview window in Left only while editing and have the secondary monitor set for SBS Half which lets me evaluate Z depth and convergence and 3D collisions. I only set up the Preview with TB Full to show you what the output would look like if we render and displayed in, say, Windows Media Player.

Don, just a hint: I use the secondary monitor for the 3D preview (sind I am a masochist with my nvidia 3D vision in full HD.... ). But the hint is following: try if it is great for you to switch the internal preview to the difference setting. It has the huge advantage that you see immediately where the parallax is zero... to my opinion faster and better then the 3D preview. I think that is a great addional advantage of the two preview sources. Works for Vegas Pro only, not for VMS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Lately, I have been doing the output from PD10 to a hard drive folder rather than burn a costly blank disk. Then, using DVD Fab, I create an ISO file from that folder and put the ISO file on an ext hard drive and play from that using my Oppo BD-93. Now I have Blu Ray 3D with menus but avoid the cost and storage of burned media. Buying those blank BD-R was getting expensive! I still use BD-RE to do some testing.

My only issue is tht the Oppo is quite expensive here, but since the Prodigy 3D was a flop I think about that.
post #165 of 564
If your workflow incl Cineform try new GoPro CineForm Studio Premiere beta or download only CineForm dll's decoders for Vegas:

http://software.gopro.com.s3.amazona...uh0Trdwz1lU%3D

Unzip and copy over the older decoders here:
C:\\Program Files (x86)\\CineForm\\Tools (64-bit systems)

or

C:\\Program Files\\CineForm\\Tools (32-bit systems.)
post #166 of 564
Thread Starter 
What would be the advantage to use Cineform within Vegas?
post #167 of 564
JVC users have no choice but to use Cineform (or Matrox or some other codec) within Vegas. Vegas won't accept the native JVC files.
post #168 of 564
Thread Starter 
Sure, I know that Joe. But beside that?
post #169 of 564
Right now I prefer using Edius to convert the JVC files. I am getting very good quality and motion flow off it.
post #170 of 564
While no one here was curious to ask, I'll volunteer that no editing applications for video had presence at CES. This is the first year I've seen a lack of editing software from any manufacturer.

Sony said editing is not something they are finding consumers are interested in doing.
Sony Creative software will continue to have large presence at NAB and will continue to offer classes and demos from the team.

I did see Power Director on display at the DTS booth but all the reps knew about it was that it licensed DTS encoder. They really didn't know that much about it.
post #171 of 564
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Sony said editing is not something they are finding consumers are interested in doing.
Sony Creative software will continue to have large presence at NAB and will continue to offer classes and demos from the team.

There was some market research published from Canopus years ago - something around 5% of the people edit their videos. The rest is unedited and maybe unviewed footage. Given the time that it take to edit a video in a really great way, and the training you need both to acquire the footage and to edit it really, I understand that.
post #172 of 564
Yes, my son in law was curious as to how to improve his editing for home videos. he uses imovie. I surprised him by telling him to do better editing, it all begins in how you shoot. I then showed him the magic of b-roll. How to shoot it and how to know what to shoot for b-roll. Then where b-roll will fit to make the editing ( story telling) superior.

BTW- I think that number 5% is way over inflated. I would have guessed more like 0.005%! I use you tube clips as my basis. And, I don't consider cutting the head and tail off of what is shot editing.
post #173 of 564
Thread Starter 
The new update 520/521 is here:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...dates/vegaspro

Fixes a lot of bugs, especially the stabilization but but also the keyframe bug (what is important for 3D since keyframing is a major task to adjust parallaxe).
post #174 of 564
Quote:


WARNING: especially for 3D important - if you update to 510/511, you will see an issue with the key frames. They are shifted to left, also in the 3D plugin of Vegas. More important: I have not been able to adjust keyframes, generated in the earlier build of Vegas. I can generate and modfiy new one, but I cannot continue a project started in the earlier version. This keyframe bug - well, as long as that is not corrected I will stay with the earlier version of Vegas.

There is only one important issue for Z10000 user - or user who wish to edit 3D 24p. The new mvc-decoder has been introduced with Vegas 11 b510/511 only. So it is worthwile to save that encoder, if you wish to edit such a footage and wish to go back to an earlier version of Vegas 11 Pro.

To do so, perform following steps:

- install build 510/511 and go to the directory Vegas Pro 11.0/FieldOPlug-Ins/mvcplug
- save the file mvcplug.dll to an external place
- go back to the older version (deinstall 510/511 and reinstall the older one, or playback an image if you have)
- go to the same directory, make a security copy of the original file mvcplug.dll in the earlier Vegas version, and put in the newer file in that folder.

Without any guarantee!


Wolfgang- Has all this been fixed in the latest update? I never took the 510/511.
post #175 of 564
Thread Starter 
The keyframe issue seems to be solved.

The new mvc-decoder - should be solved too, since it was solved even before in 420/421.
post #176 of 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

The keyframe issue seems to be solved.

The new mvc-decoder - should be solved too, since it was solved even before in 420/421.


I did the update this morning as I had about two and a half hours of clips to pair, color correct, and keyframe the 3D stereoscopic corrections. After doing approximately 60 clips with these corrections, Vegas has begun to crash repeatedly. The timeline is about 3 hours long at this point. Decided to give it a break and reboot the computer to see if that helps stabilize the crashing.

This is the largest number of paired clips I've ever keyframed so I don't have any history to compare.
post #177 of 564
Thread Starter 
Don, how many clips do you have in the timeline? 60? That would not be much.

What is see also is that - for 3D at least - the stability is still not as good as I would like it to be. Also here I see some crashes with my 3D projects - and it seems to be not related to size or number of events in the timeline really (I see it also for smaller projects).
post #178 of 564
Right now I'm up to 110 paired clips with keyframes. The crashing began at about 50 clips. After I rebooted the computer the crashing frequency was not as often but continued. It seems to crash right after I find a new point in the clip and then place a keyframe to do an auto correct and adjust the horizontal offset The actual crash moment hits around the 15% mark during auto correct. Never crashes when setting keyframes for color or brightness and contrast correction. Hope that narrows it down for you. I added some more clips this morning and it ran perfectly.

I have all my clips paired and corrected now so I'll begin the edit process.
post #179 of 564
Thread Starter 
Do you mean with "auto correct" the auto function in the 3D plugin?

I see here crashes also with other steps, but it seems to be not quite clear when it takes place. Sometimes I see it with the undo function. Sometimes with setting keyframes with the color correction. It seems to crash at different steps, unfortunately.

That are the points that are hard to repro.
post #180 of 564
Yes, all my crashes on this project were triggered at the moment the auto correct in 3D stereoscopic adjust plugin was triggered.

Since this project uses almost all clips shot with twin cams paired clips, I have to color balance and 3D stereo correct alignment on every clip pair. When I zoom with the Lanc Shepherd the geometry changes so I have to set keyframe of auto correct at the beginning of a shot, then at the beginning of a zoom period, at the end of the zoom and at the end of that part of the clip. This allows the corrections to calibrate the clips even during the zoom.
I rarely mess with 3D Stereoscopic adjust with the TD10 as a 3D cam since physical alignment is spot on.
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