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Vegas Pro 11 released - Page 2

post #31 of 564
10/23/11 at 12:40pm
Still looking to get all my hardware to cooperate to tell my story...

This is both a Pro11 and TD10 question, but I think better here.

Process 1- Import a 3d vid via Picture Motion Browser - (PMB) from my TD10 and import it in to Pro. I click File>Properties>Stereoscopic 3D mode>Difference. The display area just gives me a blank grey display.

Process 2- Import the same vid via Sony Content Management Utility Tool- (CMU) program (thanks for the previous tip/link!) and do the exact same thing, the "grey" display area clearly shows me the differences between the l/r frames of the video. Kinda nice to see where the convergence is and distance from the camera in different focal lengths.

Shouldn't the file from PMB show the differences between the l/r frames?

Should I now use CMU to extract the vids?

Some guidance and understanding of what is happening would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan

P.S. I did a complete reinstall of my Operating System and still can't get the secondary monitor to display 3D. I get the black screen with "hit esc" and the green Nvidia dialogue at the bottom right, and my IR emitter lights up. I have a job ticket in with Sony and will let you know what i learn. I honestly think I'll learn that Sony and Nvidia are working on it.

EDIT-Just saw the posts in TD10 thread of yesterday regarding importing via Pro11. Traveling now so look forward to trying that.
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post #32 of 564
10/23/11 at 1:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Did you mean you can disable only GPU cuda cores in the nvidia card but not the video card's processor?

I think what happens is that the software does not utilize CUDA - but you do not diable the GPU cores.
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post #33 of 564
10/23/11 at 4:08pm
Dan- you don't need to be worrying over the Difference mode. Difference mode is a diagnostic tool for calibrating the vertical disparity in twin camera systems. If you are using a conventional 2D computer monitor use anaglyph red/cyan to view the preview screen in anaglyph. If you use a 3D monitor in addition to your computer monitor I'm sure you have plenty. It will use SBS Half. The display for preview has no restriction on your final output resolution and format.
Quote:


Should I now use CMU to extract the vids?

I don't even know what CMU is! You either use PMB that came with your camcorder or you can use Device Explorer in Vegas Pro v11. It is accessed inside Vegas under "View"
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post #34 of 564
10/23/11 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Dan- you don't need to be worrying over the Difference mode.

I don't even know what CMU is! You either use PMB that came with your camcorder or you can use Device Explorer in Vegas Pro v11. It is accessed inside Vegas under "View"

Sorry Don shouldn't have used abbreviations. Content Management Utility. In the HDR-TD10 Thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1031

Back to the HDR-TD10 thread for more reading...

thanks,
Dan
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post #35 of 564
10/23/11 at 10:48pm
Thanks for the link- Obviously nobody is reading what Sony says- This CMU is not supported for the TD10. I suppose you can risk using it but why, when there are much easier ways to bring your video in correctly to Vegas Pro that Sony offers? Just know that with CMU you are using a procedure that is not supported by your camcorder model.

For the record, I don't have a problem with anyone experimenting as long as when trouble strikes they don't go blaming others for things being buggy if you understand where I'm going. However, IMO, one needs to stick with the established proven work flow first, and after everything's working perfectly, then go and begin to deviate from supported procedure.
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post #36 of 564
10/24/11 at 5:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Thanks for the link- This CMU is not supported for the TD10. .

Dom:

I downloaded the CMU and before I installed it, noted that TD-10 is not mentioned and presumably and as you say not supported. Sony's professional line, the HXR-NX3d is supported. This is a professional camera which is above my pay grade. There seems to be no need to install the CMU since the Device Explorer does the job nicely.

I did import some short clips using the Device Explorer and was amazed at how quickly they inported. Do you know if the DV will support import of clips larger than 2G?

When importing via PMB, three files are created for each clip:

.M2TS
.M2TS.MODD
.M2TS.MOFF

When importing vis the Device Explorer, two two files are created for each clip:

.MTS
.MTS.SFK

I can't figure out the difference or impact on editing the clips since I only use either the .M2TS or .MTS. In your research, did you find any differences in the import method or potential impact on quality.

Incidentally, I have been lurking here for a while and thank all the contributors for making the 3D editing process the fun I was looking for when I bought the TD10, SV10and 11 and PD10.

You guys are a great source of information.

Marty
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post #37 of 564
10/24/11 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post

Dom:

I downloaded the CMU and before I installed it, noted that TD-10 is not mentioned and presumably and as you say not supported.

I have an older computer that I use for "experimentation with new and unknown programs and used it to find out about whether CMU could be a useful tool. During the installation process, the installer asked for connection of a supported device. I connected the TD10 and received a message that the connected camera is not supported. End of story. This utility will not work with the TD10 as Don pointed out and I confirmed this morning.
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post #38 of 564
10/24/11 at 11:14am
Those additional files are for the meta data that is separated for the application to use. I don't worry about it as they are automatically extracted and created for the application's use. There are other temp files that also get built to make the Vegas system run faster. You'll see these referenced briefly as "proxy" files and some temp stuff too. They can be deleted and will just be recreated when needed. There is no transcoding that I know of when the m2ts is set up by PMB and therefore no quality loss. I could be wrong on this but I doubt it as the process is pretty fast. What is important is the file name change and the creation of the thumbnails making the use of the clips in Vegas easier. Oh, yes, the stitching together of the files is pretty slick and this too I don't understand what they are doing technically but don't worry over it. As long as it works, I'm happy.
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post #39 of 564
10/25/11 at 1:27pm
I installed Vegas Pro 11 64-bit and a new GTX550Ti graphics card. I used the GPU to render. A 4:20 min video, with transitions between every clip and fades in audio and video and volume envelopes, took 6:24 min to render (Sony AVC, 108030p, CABAC, 1/2-frame sbs from the 3D Bloggie). That's less than 1.5X real time rendering.
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post #40 of 564
10/25/11 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I installed Vegas Pro 11 64-bit and a new GTX550Ti graphics card. I used the GPU to render. A 4:20 min video, with transitions between every clip and fades in audio and video and volume envelopes, took 6:24 min to render (Sony AVC, 108030p, CABAC, 1/2-frame sbs from the 3D Bloggie). That's less than 1.5X real time rendering.

Nice. I also have a GTX550Ti. What CPU / motherboard / memory are you using with that? Is this the standard 550Ti clock speed with 1GB memory? Is the playback within Vegas improved by the 550Ti ?
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post #41 of 564
10/25/11 at 3:20pm
The standard clock-speed 1GB GTX550Ti. Processor is i5-2300, with 6GB of memory. I buy computers, not motherbaords. The cheapest Gateway, so I can turn over computers faster.

I get real-time playback with no pauses of the 108030p Bloggie files in my preview window, which was never possible before. When I preview in anaglyph, real time within clips, but pauses at dissolve transitions. Much better preview performance than before GPU-acceleration.
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post #42 of 564
10/28/11 at 11:34am
finally found this thread, didn't think it would be under components hehe.

is it possible to take a left eye and a right eye and burn a 1080p24 3d blu-ray with this. is there any tutorials or is someone can walk me through it. Thanks.
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post #43 of 564
10/28/11 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

finally found this thread, didn't think it would be under components hehe.

is it possible to take a left eye and a right eye and burn a 1080p24 3d blu-ray with this. is there any tutorials or is someone can walk me through it. Thanks.

Vegas has this capability. The process is called 3D Stereoscopic pairing

Once you pair your two video files, you can then burn the result to a Blu Ray. right in Vegas. The procedure is well defined in the Vegas help section. Vegas is the only software editing package that has these capabilities. Go Pro also has a pairing software, but I don't believe it can handle the blu Ray part. You can download Sony Vegas and try it before you buy it.
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post #44 of 564
10/28/11 at 12:37pm
Thanks Don,

Can you take side by side and convert that to frame packed.
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post #45 of 564
10/28/11 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Thanks Don,

Can you take side by side and convert that to frame packed.

I don't think Vegas can do that but I have done it in PD10. SBS is a 2D image but PD10 has a special menu that allows to to tell the software to recognize the SBS 2D frame is 3D and when you render and burn to BD-R it will be in frame packed standard.
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post #46 of 564
10/28/11 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Thanks Don,

Can you take side by side and convert that to frame packed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

I don't think Vegas can do that but I have done it in PD10. SBS is a 2D image but PD10 has a special menu that allows to to tell the software to recognize the SBS 2D frame is 3D and when you render and burn to BD-R it will be in frame packed standard.

This is non-sense, frame packing is NOT a storage format. h.264 MVC encoded video gets transmited from a Blu-ray player to a display over an HDMI cable via frame-packing.

The question and answer are both wrong. The question should be can Vegas 11 take SBS video and encode it as h.264 MVC? As far as I know the answer to that is yes.
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post #47 of 564
10/28/11 at 8:28pm
Quote:


The question should be can Vegas 11 take SBS video and encode it as h.264 MVC? As far as I know the answer to that is yes.

No problem with that part, but if you didn't understand the question don't change the question to something you do understand.

space2001 asked a valid question. He has a SBS video and wants to get that on a Bluray disk in 3D which is frame packed, not SBS. I gave him an honest answer from personal experience. Unless you have some way to tell Vegas the 2D SBS video on the timeline is a SBS 3D it has no way of determining that on it's own. PD10 has this capability built in although finding the menu to select it is a bit hidden. If you put an SBS video on the timeline in vegas and render it to the 3D BluRay burned disk you will end up with a mess because the split screen side by side will remain plus the Blue ray will be a 3DBD that will tell the 3D display monitor to go into 3D frame packed mode. You may be able to shut off the 3D output in the player and force the player into 2D mode ignoring the frame packed format but this would be player dependent. You could also play the disk in a 2D player but I'm not sure how that will work. It may not recognize the disk. Either way all this is silly because if you have a SBS video and wish to put it on a blu-ray just burn it as a 2D disk and put your monitor in SBS mode. That I know works. Again, that was not what space2001 asked. My original answer stands. Use PD10 and select timeline as SBS and then burn to a Blu Ray that will be 3D frame packed.
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post #48 of 564
10/29/11 at 12:01am
It's a simple (if tedious) matter in Vegas to identify each clip as SbS. Once Vegas knows it's SbS, it should render it to a regular Blu-ray 3D disc, like other content. (I haven't created an iso this way, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.) I plan to do this in a project that's otherwise all MVC files. I shot a few scenes in SbS mode when I first got my camcorder. I drag the clips from my JVC onto the timeline, tag them as SbS and edit normally. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a way to do that for a batch of files - only one at a time.
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post #49 of 564
10/29/11 at 2:44am
Thread Starter 
Yes, for sure that works - you can render sbs footage to mvc and burn 3D Blu rays with that.

Joe, the JVC will create sbs half, as far as I know. Do you see here a quality loss, compared with MVC shoot in the JVC? Should be theoretically, but what is your real world experience?
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post #50 of 564
10/29/11 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I shot a few scenes in SbS mode when I first got my camcorder. I drag the clips from my JVC onto the timeline, tag them as SbS and edit normally.

Joe:

I have watched the ISOs you created of the garden and flower closeups. The work is brilliant. Which camera did you use and what were the settings? Many thanks.

Marty
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post #51 of 564
10/29/11 at 8:01am
Well I stand corrected on what Vegas can do. And, learned something new today. Thanks, Joe and Wolfgang

In the past I had used SBS video clips that were already tagged as SBS half and did render the output to a BD-RE (Bloggie 3D) but what I thought was not possible was to have a video that was rendered to SBS, yet not tagged as such and have it changed to SBS. Decided to check for one more location in the properties / media and there is the place to tag the clip. I ran a quick test of some wmv files I had rendered to SBS half made the properties / media switch to SBS Half and burned it to a BD-RE and it played fine. Chalk another feature up to Sony Vegas. I could not do a selection of many clips and change them all at once, however. Only one at a time on the timeline.
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post #52 of 564
10/29/11 at 8:25am
Thread Starter 
Sorry Don, I forgot to mention that you have to switch the media properties to sbs - and then the clip it is taken as 3D clip in a 3D project. But you have detected that by yourself, fine.

But the issue in my eyes is still the same - unchanged. You still lose 50% of the possible quality if you start with sbs half footage instead of mvc. And that is something that I do not like really.

Funny, the PD10 could be used as "mvc converter" for the JVC TD1 too. Import the JVC MVC TD1 fils in the PD10, render it to sbs-full with 3840x1080 60i (for NTSC) interlaced, and import that again in Vegas. Change it in the media properties to sbs-full, and you can use the full resolution in Vegas too. One possible way.

But be aware that the playback performance will not be great in Vegas maybe. I did that with Panasonic 1080 50p footage, converted it to 3D in PD10 with 3840x1080 50p and imported that in Vegas again and used that in a multicam editing with footage from my TD10. Puhh, playback performance was weak even with a i7 2600K overclocked 4.2 Ghz - but I disabled 3D für the multicam editing and it was fine as workaround.
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post #53 of 564
10/29/11 at 3:17pm
Quote:


But the issue in my eyes is still the same - unchanged. You still lose 50% of the possible quality if you start with sbs half footage instead of mvc. And that is something that I do not like really.

Interesting you bring that up again. One observation I did make but didn't mention it before was that the SBS Half burned out to BluRay in this Vegas method was indeed lower quality than the same clip ported to PD10 and burned to BluRay. You recall I made comment in the other work flow discussion that the PQ looked quite good. But in the vegas Blu Ray burn of the SBS half file the quality was a bit muddy. Anyway, It was not my place to edit the original question. That was given SBS video source, can that be burned to 3D BD ( frame packed) and the answer is yes, for both Vegas and PD10. Plus, my answer is not just a wiki knowledge but one from actually doing it.
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post #54 of 564
10/29/11 at 6:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang S. View Post

Yes, for sure that works - you can render sbs footage to mvc and burn 3D Blu rays with that.

Joe, the JVC will create sbs half, as far as I know. Do you see here a quality loss, compared with MVC shoot in the JVC? Should be theoretically, but what is your real world experience?

There's a big loss. When I first got the camcorder, I had no frame of reference and I thought the SbS video looked pretty good. After I saw the MVC footage, though, I was kicking myself for shooting anything as SbS. MVC is far, far superior. I intend to try to salvage a few SbS shots, because I got cherry trees in blossom in SbS mode, and by the time I got back to shooting that area in MVC mode, the blossoms were gone. Pretty much the same for a lot of other flowers. I'll get them next spring, though.
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post #55 of 564
10/29/11 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Videoguy68 View Post

Joe:

I have watched the ISOs you created of the garden and flower closeups. The work is brilliant. Which camera did you use and what were the settings? Many thanks.

Marty

Thanks, I appreciate that. Those were my first day experiments with macro shots. I have a lot to learn, but I'm already getting much better results. I shoot with the JVC GS-TD1. Those were done with the Cyclopital3D 77mm adapter and a Marumi +3 macro lens. Virtually all my shooting these days is done with area touch select for exposure and focus. I have manual convergence engaged for macro shots and stereo base extender shots. I love the Cyclopital3D stereo base extender for distance shots, and it works pretty well even for some types of medium shots.

The TD1 can get pretty close without it, but for those really dramatic CUs, the macro lens is necessary. I have tons of shots of bees and other insects buzzing around and crawling inside flowers.

The single most dramatic shift in my shooting, though, is simply not to shoot in full auto mode. I now use the touch screen to manually select the area I want the camera to focus on and use to set the exposure. Huge improvement!
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post #56 of 564
11/1/11 at 11:57am
Thread Starter 
There is a new update for Vegas Pro 11 - build 424 and 425:

Quote:


Notable fixes/changes in version 11.0 (Build 424)

Enabled GPU acceleration for NVIDIA GPUs with Compute Capability prior to 2.0 when using driver 285.62 or newer. See this Web page for a list of Compute Capability levels for various NVIDIA GPUs: http://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-gpus.
Improved performance for GPU-accelerated video processing for certain GPU and chipsets.
Improved performance for GPU-accelerated Page Loop, Page Peel, and Page Roll transitions.
Improved performance for GPU-accelerated Noise Texture generator.
Improved performance for OFX media generators that are not animated.
Added support for 422 profile in MainConcept MPEG-2 custom templates.
Changed the default field order for MainConcept MPEG-2 NTSC DVD templates to upper first (which is more common and matches more source media).
Fixed an issue reading AVI files created by Autodesk 3ds Max.
Fixed an issue that could cause silent audio on certain long MP4 files.
Fixed an issue that prevented MainConcept MPEG-2 custom templates from Vegas Pro 10 from functioning correctly.
Fixed an issue that could cause MainConcept GPU-accelerated AVC rendering to fail in some cases.
Fixed an issue where previewing Cross Effect in the Transitions window could make the preview thumbnails incorrect for subsequent previews.
Fixed a Y-axis inversion in the Mirror plug-in.
Fixed an issue with certain settings of the Cookie Cutter plug-in not matching previous version.
Fixed a freeze that could occur when rendering a 32-bit floating point project with certain FirePro GPUs.
Fixed an issue that allowed compositor plug-ins to be dragged to events.
Fixed an issue that allowed more than one compositor plug-in on a track.
Fixed an issue with Color Corrector and Color Corrector (Secondary) color wheel interpolation when crossing the zero-degree line.
Fixed an issue that could cause Media FX to be dropped when relinking media.
Fixed an issue that could produce incorrect output for the Sepia plug-in when used on images with transparency.
Fixed an issue with the Levels plug-in that could produce incorrect results in some cases if Channel was not set to All.
Fixed an issue that could cause artifacts for high settings of the Feather control when processing was not GPU accelerated.
Fixed an issue that caused Stereoscopic 3D Adjust floating windows to be transparent when processing was GPU accelerated.
Fixed an issue that could cause an error when rendering to certain MainConcept MPEG-2 templates.
Fixed Cookie Cutter plug-in shapes for projects with nonsquare pixel aspect ratios.
Fixed an issue with Defocus, Glint, Rays, Soft Contrast, and Starburst when used with images with alpha channel or transparency.
Fixed an exception error that could occur with certain editing scenarios in the ProType Titler.
Fixed a crash that could occur when using the RE:Vision Effects ClampTime plug-in.
Fixed a case where a keyframe could be created for an incorrect parameter when using the Custom view of an OFX plug-in (such as Color Corrector).
Fixed an issue that could cause Paste Event Attributes to use the wrong event's attributes when the source events were grouped.
When using the Upload to YouTube dialog, tags must be at least two characters long. The Upload button is unavailable if your tag is shorter than two characters.
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post #57 of 564
11/1/11 at 2:00pm
Fixed an issue that could cause MainConcept GPU-accelerated AVC rendering to fail in some cases.

Hmmmm... ?? What do they mean by fail?

Guess I need to update and re-render the test.
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post #58 of 564
11/2/11 at 2:10am
Thread Starter 
Maybe they mean that in the German verison the drop-down box to diable or enalbe CUDA was gone.
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post #59 of 564
11/19/11 at 8:36pm
Here's kinda where we are on the 3D viewing on Nvidia GTX cards, fwiw and any additional info to the NV guys.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=213360

Got the attention of Andrew, he's good.
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post #60 of 564
11/20/11 at 9:37am
Can't assume that GPU rendering will be better than straight CPU for speed in all cases

I just completed two renderings of the same timeline where the setting was GPU on one and CPU on the second rendering.

Results- CPU rendered this project at a rate of 11,000 frames per hour compared with the GPU which was rendering at 9200 frames per hour.

The CPU is an i7-950 with 12Gb Ram no overclocking
The GPU is the AMD radeon HD6850.
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