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The Official VEFXi 3D-Bee Owners' Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I've been testing the Trainer model. When I input Blu-ray at 1080p24, I get terrible tearing artifacts through the center of the screen, separating the top half of the picture from the bottom. These recur regularly and make the content basically unwatchable. Switching my Blu-ray player to 1080p60 seems to resolve it. But I don't want to leave the Blu-ray player at 60 Hz if I don't have to.

Has anyone else had this problem?

Hi Josh, what type of player and what type of TV are you using? We're working with our engineers to see if we can reproduce what you are describing but have not been able to replicate it.
post #122 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D-Bee View Post

Hi Josh, what type of player and what type of TV are you using? We're working with our engineers to see if we can reproduce what you are describing but have not been able to replicate it.

The Blu-ray player is an OPPO BDP-93. The tearing was seen on a Vizio E3D320VX. The TV is a 60HZ model that will accept a 24 fps input signal, but does not display at 24 fps. It applies 3:2 Pulldown to any 24 fps input.

It's possible that this tearing is occuring as a result of the 3:2 Pulldown. However, I've never experienced this on any other Blu-ray 24 fps signal, whether 2D or 3D.
post #123 of 291
In have one on the way to me and I will test 24hz withit. However I am in Canada so it maybe a few weeks.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The Blu-ray player is an OPPO BDP-93. The tearing was seen on a Vizio E3D320VX. The TV is a 60HZ model that will accept a 24 fps input signal, but does not display at 24 fps. It applies 3:2 Pulldown to any 24 fps input.

It's possible that this tearing is occuring as a result of the 3:2 Pulldown. However, I've never experienced this on any other Blu-ray 24 fps signal, whether 2D or 3D.
post #124 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildchild22 View Post

In have one on the way to me and I will test 24hz withit. However I am in Canada so it maybe a few weeks.

let me know how you like your set up.i live in canada also and would like to know how happy you are with the converter.i am going to order one also if the reviews are good.we have a samsung dlp 3d tv with mits converter.
post #125 of 291
Thread Starter 
I use almost exclusively 24p ( Bluray) and haven't had any issue with tearing. Possible it is your display chain?
post #126 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I use almost exclusively 24p ( Bluray) and haven't had any issue with tearing. Possible it is your display chain?

It's possible. I won't rule it out. As I mentioned, the set converts everything to 60 Hz. It's also a passive 3D model, so the vertical resolution gets halved in 3D mode. Those could contribute to the tearing, though I don't get this problem on any other source. Of course, I also don't have any other 1080p24 side-by-side 3D sources to test.

Finally tested some video games through the Bee conversion this weekend. I was pretty impressed. I compared Killzone 3 (first person shooter) and Motorstorm Apocalypse (racing) in native 3D versus 2D converted to 3D. The native 3D version of Killzone was definitely more complex and had a better sense of object layering, but the conversion was respectable. The conversion on Motorstorm was really good and damn close to the native 3D. It even got the water splashes on the "camera" effect right.
post #127 of 291
Is any one using one of this company's 2-D to 3-D converters with
an Optoma GT-750 3-D projector? If so, I would very much like
to hear about your results. I am using one of these DLP projectors
for my 3-D viewing only.
post #128 of 291
Just received my 3d bee (trainer), had a few config issues but its running now, really cool. Here is my setup. Optoma HD66 to a Monoprice 4x2 matrix, ps3 with 3dxl, xbox 360, cablevision cable box. I also have a sharp 2d tv on channel (a) on the matrix. Optoma is on (b). The Ps3 worked right away with the bee if I put the bee between the ps3 and the 3dxl. But I could not get the cablevision box to come up with the bee even if I went direct from the cablebox to the bee to the projector. It seems like the bee was working but the projector would not switch into 3d mode or the bee was not telling it to. it was showing 2 pictures side by side. To fix it I put the bee last on the chain to the projector then the 3dxl then to the matrix in channel (b the optoma projector) now everything works, 3D on demand watched wipeout last night in 3d very cool, rangers were on msg in crystal clear huge 3d. Even watched a little of bones in 3d, The ps3 still works just like it did when the 3dxl was chained after it. My kid played the xbox Ncaa very cool 3d. One more note I noticed that with the bee there is no sync invert issues you can flip the glasses and it works both ways very cool. I dont understand any of this on the tech level but I did enjoy getting it to work.

I need to correct the order the 3dxl is last on the chain to the projector then the 3d bee then to the matrix,
my post above has the wrong order.
post #129 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer16 View Post

But I could not get the cablevision box to come up with the bee even if I went direct from the cablebox to the bee to the projector. It seems like the bee was working but the projector would not switch into 3d mode or the bee was not telling it to. it was showing 2 pictures side by side.

Depending on the source, the Bee does not always pass a 3D flag to the display. You may have to manually turn on 3D at the screen.
post #130 of 291
Problem is on the Optoma 66 if it does not detect a 3d signal it greys out the 3d option
post #131 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I use almost exclusively 24p ( Bluray) and haven't had any issue with tearing. Possible it is your display chain?

Hi rdjam
Since you have had your 3D-Bee setup almost the longest, and certainly the most involved setup with dual units and projectors, I'm wondering about your opinion after my initial reaction to the Trainer, picked up with their $100 discount, yesterday afternoon for a couple hours with my RS50. 8.5' wide 16x9 image on a Hi Power in light controlled room.

I just plunked it between my Denon DVP-602CI processor hub putting out (only 1080 60P tested so far) and the projector. No handshake problems other than it took a long time with the one button on remote it needed pushed to get it to register I accepted their terms of use in the initial setup.

It seems to me when I would change source feeding the Denon feeding the 3D-Bee it started off in pass through mode. That is actually pretty cool if it's intentional. Then you can decide to kick in the 3D processing if desired. I would prefer the levels of effect were simply numbered 1, 2, 3, etc rather than the odd graphics they give you which I would forget which I liked best while cycling through them. I guess it stays the same every time you turn on the process unless you change it?

Anyway....I started off feeding it some still test photos I just took around my house and neighborhood with a new Sony A77 camera in 16x9 mode and some nice vintage Minolta glass. Once I found the 3D-Bee's best setting that looked the most natural, it was really impressive with the depth added and clarity of detail, and even appeared to have a bit of imaging pop in front of the screen plane. Or maybe I imagined that part? Do you ever see in front of plane imaging with the 2 projector setup?

And I could run my Charter Cable from a Tivo unit through it no problem. Have not yet tried an actual Bluray movie at 24P from my PS3.

BUT, there are always "decisions" it has to make on the fly with its hard wired code about what is in front and what is behind. Too often even at my best setting for the box, those decisions yielded some unnatural protrusions or "extent" of the natural protrusion within the overall scene. To the point of wow that is pretty distracting.

Does it seem with all your 2 projector, actual Bluray 24P movie watching that you get many of those moments? I found myself thinking it's cool, it's amazing when it's right how good it looks.....but of course the picture is dimmer and the colors and IQ even having been set up by UMR to work best for the 3D setting, just aren't up to what he gave me of course for the 2D settings.

And since the vast majority of the effect is "depth" into the screen....I'm thinking won't the Darbee Visual Presence (from what I have seen in person) yield ultimately a better experience without all the drawbacks of glasses, loss of light, color, etc. I know you're eagerly waiting on that too. There are also "wow" look at that moments with it, but if not a "wow" moment it just kind of sits there not adding anything beyond a pleasing subtle effect. Wasn't really able to play with the level of settings much when I saw it at E3 in June and that was only on 50" LCD set with mostly IMAX Under The Sea. And likely it has been improved further since then prior to actual product launch.
post #132 of 291
Ron, your impressions pretty much match mine. There are moments when the effect is really impressive, but other distracting moments (on just about all content) with visual errors where the unit can't decide what to pull forward and what to push backward. This gives the image sort of a wavy effect. And there's plenty of content where it doesn't seem to do anything at all.

The most frustrating thing is that it's almost impossible to predict on what sorts of content it will do best. I ran through a whole bunch of movie demo scenes where I thought, "I bet this will look great in 3D." Some looked amazing (cafe explosion in Inception), some were meh (zero-g hallway fight in the same movie), some look terrible (space station scenes in Star Trek: The Motion Picture), and some are completely flat 2D with no depth effect at all (the entirety of Starship Troopers).

The Pixar 'Cars' Blu-ray converted by the Bee looks fantastic, indistinguishable from the native 3D 'Cars 2' disc. Yet converting the 'Cars 2' 2D disc is curiously flat. These movies have an almost identical visual style. I have no idea why one would convert better than the other.

This isn't to say that my feelings about the unit are negative. Any real-time conversion algorithm is going to have limitations. Also, it seems that people's results on any particular piece of content vary from display to display. What looks poor on my screen may look better on someone else's.
post #133 of 291
OK I got a chance to try it out with some Bluray. But 24P for me with the JVC RS50 was not happening. It put up 2 images side by side. Not a huge deal to me as the Denon DVP-602CI gives a great 1080 60P and the 3D-Bee likes that just fine as does the JVC with what it gets from the Bee.

For the first disc in my limited time, I had to put the 2D director's cut of Avatar in my PS3 as it is a benchmark of a quality release both for 3D and 2D transfer and I am very familiar with it. Holy shiznit!! What a great job it does with that. Aside from some ghosting here and there that I write off to the JVC now with about 500 hours on this particular lamp and LCOS technology, the 3D imaging given to the 2D source was I'd have to say good to amazing.

I figured out what's going on with the graphics denoting 3 settings for depth into the image and 3 as well for enhancing more toward the front and even a bit beyond. Surprisingly to me (in this short viewing test) I was torn between the max settings both back into and also toward the front with some actual pop out. (I may have to re-examine and check for ghosting at those levels, though I was so taken with the effect I didn't notice or care at the time) With this type of high quality footage and an actual Bluray movie I was rarely aware of or annoyed by "odd protrusions or the extent of protrusions" that I mentioned above with my still photographs.

Definitely, at least with Avatar, I would choose to watch it with the simulated 3D now over 2D, if not the production 3D from the 3D disc. The depth in some scenes was freaking amazing and even in complex scenes I couldn't believe how much of it...it got right. I haven't seen with my projector any other simulated 3D other than my Panasonic 3D player's version, and it flat out smokes that.

Then I tried a little Casino Royale with Daniel Craig version and the ghosting was worse and the results not as sterling, but I still might pick a setting and choose to watch it simulated rather than in 2D.

So yes, Josh like you said I guess some releases just look better. Now I want to go buy Cars 1 again. I had it and lost it somewhere or loaned it out.

My first impression prior to Bluray was....Well for the $299 with the discount for the trainer (which I LIKE having the different choices for different programs) was that OK, I got it, I tried it and it was worth it for that. But likely not much use going forward. What I saw with Avatar just changed all of that for sure. I am very glad I have this unit now and the options it provides.

EDIT:
And I checked out some some football on ESPN last night with the setting on minimum back-into-the-picture-depth-setting as any stronger either way forward or back ghosts pretty bad for me with the JVC off cable feed. Honestly I was prepared to find no way this unit was really going to be effective in that kind of situation. And in actuality once again I was pretty amazed at how well the BEE did with the football footage on the low setting. Minimal ghosting and it was again very impressive. Fun to watch! I imagine it will vary by program as well. NBA basketball? Coming up.......
post #134 of 291
Thread Starter 
Hi Ron - glad to hear it's growing on you!

Yes, when you switch sources it goes back to 2D mode by default. I think this is a good feature, as it let's you press the 3D button when you are ready, and can help you sort out other settings. I do agree with you tho, that that graphic codes, instead of simple numbers for the mode you are in, is a pain. But once you find you favourite, you can just leave it there - the Bee will always use your last setting by default when you enable 3D mode.

I still use the "-" setting mostly. The unit does sometimes guess some of the depths wrong, and it's less distracting when you are in one of the more subtle modes, I feel.

The + modes do provide some pop in front of the screen, but on an 11 foot screen objects in front of the screen can really strain your eyes - this is more a factor of 3D in general, nothing to do with the Bee. I keep meaning to sit down and calibrate the conversion settings for my setup to account for the large screen, but have not gotten around to it yet (like so many other things, LOL).

Tricky scenes for the Bee include scenes where there is, for instance, rough ocean - as in Master and Commander, and Pirates. I think if the Bee doesn't have enough depth cues in the scene it has a tough time of it. You can notice that the ocean doesn't "flow" smoothly into the distance, but instead can look unnaturally bumpy. But overall I'm extremely happy with the job it does.

As you noted, ghosting etc are artifacts of the display chain, not the 3D source.

As to the difference with my dual projector setup, these mostly relate to perceived smoothness and naturalness - with each eye getting 96 or 120 images per second, depending on content. Each eye also gets the full benefit of creative frame interpolation in the dual projector system. Seeing Avatar 3D on the dual setup has to be seen to be believed - FAR better than ANY cinema projection system you have ever seen.

By the way - you've just got to try Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions with the 3D Bee. Amazing. It just totally nails it. And for some reason, they convert much better than the first Matrix film.

I'm still waiting for the gosh-darned Darbee vision to come out. Darbee will not, of course, actually create 3D - but it does significantly enhance the visual pop of any 2D content.

I am convinced that Darbee can radically enhance the depth effect and clarity of 3D content, and may even help to reduce some of the FI errors that the JVC is prone to, by delineating the edges of moving objects better.

I theorize that the 3D Bee also does a better job of creating 3D from 2D sources that are sharper and clearer. Muddy 2D sources do not seem to convert with as much pop. I think the Darbee will make 2D sources work better with the Bee, by the way it sharpens the image, removing a lot of the "noise" that tends to desharpen some film content.

I plan to incorporate the Darbee into my "ultimate" system abd will experiment with using it both "in front of" and "after" the 3D Bee, to see which works best. Now... If only they'd hurry up and get the thing on the market!

Inception was also really excellent on the Bee.
post #135 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Hi Ron - glad to hear it's growing on you!

Yes, when you switch sources it goes back to 2D mode by default. I think this is a good feature, as it let's you press the 3D button when you are ready, and can help you sort out other settings. I do agree with you tho, that that graphic codes, instead of simple numbers for the mode you are in, is a pain. But once you find you favourite, you can just leave it there - the Bee will always use your last setting by default when you enable 3D mode.

I still use the "-" setting mostly. The unit does sometimes guess some of the depths wrong, and it's less distracting when you are in one of the more subtle modes, I feel.

The + modes do provide some pop in front of the screen, but on an 11 foot screen objects in front of the screen can really strain your eyes - this is more a factor of 3D in general, nothing to do with the Bee. I keep meaning to sit down and calibrate the conversion settings for my setup to account for the large screen, but have not gotten around to it yet (like so many other things, LOL).

Tricky scenes for the Bee include scenes where there is, for instance, rough ocean - as in Master and Commander, and Pirates. I think if the Bee doesn't have enough depth cues in the scene it has a tough time of it. You can notice that the ocean doesn't "flow" smoothly into the distance, but instead can look unnaturally bumpy. But overall I'm extremely happy with the job it does.

As you noted, ghosting etc are artifacts of the display chain, not the 3D source.

As to the difference with my dual projector setup, these mostly relate to perceived smoothness and naturalness - with each eye getting 96 or 120 images per second, depending on content. Each eye also gets the full benefit of creative frame interpolation in the dual projector system. Seeing Avatar 3D on the dual setup has to be seen to be believed - FAR better than ANY cinema projection system you have ever seen.

By the way - you've just got to try Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions with the 3D Bee. Amazing. It just totally nails it. And for some reason, they convert much better than the first Matrix film.

I'm still waiting for the gosh-darned Darbee vision to come out. Darbee will not, of course, actually create 3D - but it does significantly enhance the visual pop of any 2D content.

I am convinced that Darbee can radically enhance the depth effect and clarity of 3D content, and may even help to reduce some of the FI errors that the JVC is prone to, by delineating the edges of moving objects better.

I theorize that the 3D Bee also does a better job of creating 3D from 2D sources that are sharper and clearer. Muddy 2D sources do not seem to convert with as much pop. I think the Darbee will make 2D sources work better with the Bee, by the way it sharpens the image, removing a lot of the "noise" that tends to desharpen some film content.

I plan to incorporate the Darbee into my "ultimate" system abd will experiment with using it both "in front of" and "after" the 3D Bee, to see which works best. Now... If only they'd hurry up and get the thing on the market!

Inception was also really excellent on the Bee.

was hoping to order one once i got some positive reviews but looks like its a no go.by the time i received it in canada with all the costs involved it seems too hit and miss with 3d conversion.
post #136 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonF View Post

OK I got a chance to try it out with some Bluray. But 24P for me with the JVC RS50 was not happening. It put up 2 images side by side. Not a huge deal to me as the Denon DVP-602CI gives a great 1080 60P and the 3D-Bee likes that just fine as does the JVC with what it gets from the Bee.

I'm amazed that you can use the Bee at any resolution on the RS50. JVC projectors do not like side-by-side 3D. The ghosting is unwatchable on my RS40 at 450 hours, even at the Bee's minimum setting. I've had to do all my testing of the unit with my passive 3D TV.

Quote:


For the first disc in my limited time, I had to put the 2D director's cut of Avatar in my PS3 as it is a benchmark of a quality release both for 3D and 2D transfer and I am very familiar with it. Holy shiznit!! What a great job it does with that. Aside from some ghosting here and there that I write off to the JVC now with about 500 hours on this particular lamp and LCOS technology, the 3D imaging given to the 2D source was I'd have to say good to amazing.

Now see, the Avatar conversion was just "OK" for me. Some scenes look good, but others are underwhelming.

Results on this thing really do seem to vary wildly from person to person.
post #137 of 291
Hi Josh
Yeah I kind of had some vague remembrance of people saying the side by side from ESPN & TV broadcasting didn't play nice with the JVCs. Actually I didn't realize that was basically the one option from the BEE for my 1080 projector. But it does remarkably well at the least strong setting for depth back into the picture on TV shows. With good telecasts like last night's NY / Dallas game the ghosting on my 50 is entirely minimal and not an issue. I would like to use it up to the next level but there ghosting shows too much.

With Avatar from Bluray passed to the BEE at 60P from my Denon processor it was at a whole nuther level of good for me. I will have to go back though and check out what level of ghosting had to be there at the 2 stronger settings both back into the picture and forward. I am pretty amazed in hindsight being able to watch for any time at all at the stronger levels considering what happens on cable sources. But no way was it a problem for the 50 with the side by side. There was also a number of reports that the 50s and 60s ghosted less than 40s.
post #138 of 291
I'm very intrigued by this product.
I just finished reading the entire thread and ended up drafting like 4 more projects I want to do once I move into my bigger place in a year.
3D racing sim module, Dual Projectors.... etc.

I both love and loath this forum for that very reason. haha

Anyways, does anyone have any experience using one of these on a Mitsu DLP? I've got a 82738 coming on Wednesday, and this seems like a prime candidate for my christmas bonus.
Just wondering what all I would need to get in order to have my 3D set up optimal.
At the moment I plan to hook up a 360, 3d bluray player, hd media player, and cable box to my Denon 1312 via HDMI.
Would I then use the HDMI out to the BEE, and the out from that to the TV?
Where would a 3D emitter fit into the mix? I'm sorry, I'm not well versed with some of these peripherals, and have not seen them all in person to make any obvious assessments yet.

Thanks. This is very exciting. Now to go look into that Darbee thing you guys keep talking about.
post #139 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by knobby View Post

was hoping to order one once i got some positive reviews but looks like its a no go.by the time i received it in canada with all the costs involved it seems too hit and miss with 3d conversion.

That's a problem with any form of on-the-fly 2D-3D conversion. It's just that the 'Bee, while not cheap, does a better job of it than nearly anything else out there. To improve on the 'Bee, as described in a post earlier in this thread, costs tens of thousands of dollars. When compared to THAT, the Bee is much more cost-effective! Sure, there are cheaper converters, but every single one has its own drawbacks, in input and output formats and in picture quality. You pays your money and you makes your choice...
post #140 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache137 View Post

I'm very intrigued by this product.
I just finished reading the entire thread and ended up drafting like 4 more projects I want to do once I move into my bigger place in a year.
3D racing sim module, Dual Projectors.... etc.

I both love and loath this forum for that very reason. haha

Anyways, does anyone have any experience using one of these on a Mitsu DLP? I've got a 82738 coming on Wednesday, and this seems like a prime candidate for my christmas bonus.
Just wondering what all I would need to get in order to have my 3D set up optimal.
At the moment I plan to hook up a 360, 3d bluray player, hd media player, and cable box to my Denon 1312 via HDMI.
Would I then use the HDMI out to the BEE, and the out from that to the TV?
Where would a 3D emitter fit into the mix? I'm sorry, I'm not well versed with some of these peripherals, and have not seen them all in person to make any obvious assessments yet.

Thanks. This is very exciting. Now to go look into that Darbee thing you guys keep talking about.

I'm not familiar with current Mitsubishi models, but that one probably has DLPLink built in, so an emitter in that case wouldn't be necessary unless you wanted to use something like RF glasses. Look for a VESA connector, which is similar-looking to the old AT keyboard and mouse connectors on computers, but smaller and with only 3 pins. That's what you'd need for an add-on emitter.

I just looked at the DarbeeVision website. My monitor is calibrated, but the improvement I saw in their before/after pictures was subtle at best (YMMV). I'm thinking that it would make a perfect Sharpness control, if it doesn't cost too much.
post #141 of 291
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post


That's a problem with any form of on-the-fly 2D-3D conversion. It's just that the 'Bee, while not cheap, does a better job of it than nearly anything else out there. To improve on the 'Bee, as described in a post earlier in this thread, costs tens of thousands of dollars. When compared to THAT, the Bee is much more cost-effective! Sure, there are cheaper converters, but every single one has its own drawbacks, in input and output formats and in picture quality. You pays your money and you makes your choice...

Totally agree. There is nothing that performs like this at magnitudes greater price levels. In fact there is only one product I've seen that beats it for on the fly performance, and that product prefers when the scene is moving.

Any occasional mistakes are just par for the course as far as I'm concerned.

Watching flims like the Matrix and Inception in 3D are the definition of a killer app, as far as I'm concerned.
post #142 of 291
Hi everyone,

3D-Bee is up for nominations as CES International's Last Gadget Standing. Please cast your vote for 3D-Bee today:

http://lastgadgetstanding.com/2011/12/09/3dbeetrainer/

Thanks again for all the support and feedback!
post #143 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Totally agree. There is nothing that performs like this at magnitudes greater price levels. In fact there is only one product I've seen that beats it for on the fly performance, and that product prefers when the scene is moving.

Any occasional mistakes are just par for the course as far as I'm concerned.

Watching flims like the Matrix and Inception in 3D are the definition of a killer app, as far as I'm concerned.

got the KanexPro CubeUp for a steal. Love it. If the bee was a bit cheaper they would of had me
post #144 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1969 View Post

got the KanexPro CubeUp for a steal. Love it. If the bee was a bit cheaper they would of had me

sorry but what is the KanexPro CubeUp?
post #145 of 291
sorry for not searching enough.finally found it.has anybody got a price or place for purchasing it and also getting reviews?
post #146 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by knobby View Post

sorry for not searching enough.finally found it.has anybody got a price or place for purchasing it and also getting reviews?

got mine off ebay for $110 brand new. I think they usually sell for $299. It also has a built in upscaler
post #147 of 291
Wow I want one at this price. Was it new or used? Can you pm me the seller please.
post #148 of 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8000HD View Post

Wow I want one at this price. Was it new or used? Can you pm me the seller please.

i sent you a pm
post #149 of 291
post #150 of 291
Probably picked up for the $100 off during their Black Friday special and now trying to turn the ($50) profit.
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