HiMedia HD900B Full 3D Media Streamer (Realtek 1186-based) - Page 38

HokeySmoke, thanks for posting those timing tests. This is troubling, and I have noticed this stuttering with everything I play. Very disappointing.

is this problem your having with an external or internal hard drive connected via usb or streaming from your PC via the network?

My drive was connected via USB, but this is clearly a frame rate conversion problem. Movies are 23.976 fps, and the HD900 is sending out 24 fps. Therefore every 1000 frames (42 seconds) you will get a dropped frame.

If it's happening in my 900 b I don't notice it. I've played several movies now and everything seems normal to me. I have played from both the internal and external drives. I'm also running into the vip displayer and h5630 PJ.

Here is a ink to a recent post the reset / power issues of the Himedia 900B reported by denass
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post21658206

Here is a link to another thread for the power up issue reported recently for the Micca 950 version of the player, reported by eagle_2
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21660502

There are two issues that are different problems that act together to give a compound increase in frustration.

Also, some users report that they do not have the power up problem at all.

First problem - The unit locks up during playback. This is not unique to these realtek 1186 based players. Other players I've used also lock up occasionally. If this happened once in a while, say once a week, it might be okay.

I get the impression that it happens often for some users of these realtek 1186 based players. From a user's perspective, any lockup at all is not enjoyed, and indicates a product with less then optimum robustness.

On the painfully humorous side, I remember back to Windows lockups and reboots needed starting at Windows 3.1, and didn't get fixed for over 10 years until there was Win XP. Hopefully competition will produce something better sooner for 3D iso playback.

Second problem - The unit doesn't always power up correctly when the power button on the remote is pressed.

The first and second problems compound. The unit locks and you have to re-power it, but then it doesn't always turn on when re-powered. Frustrating indeed.

It seems that there are no exceptions to the first problem above. However, some users of these boxes claim that they never experience the second problem.

Perhaps there are differences in how they are being used, or the ability of the unit it respond to on / off cycles. For example, if these player units require an extended time after power is applied (or after being turned off) before they are "ready" to power up, it could be that this is considered a malfunction when it is actually simply not waiting long enough for the unit to become ready to power up. I have seen this with numerous electronic devices.

What is helpful is to write exactly what happened before the problem occurred, and the exact sequence of what was done to make the problem go away.

By being methodical, the user may discover that if they do some particular steps the same way each time, the units always responds in a predictable manner that can be tolerated. This often works with people, and even more often works with electronic machines.

Although the realtek 1186 based box is common to users reporting these stutters in playback, there are other factors besides the realtek box that can help to produce or mask the issue.

Most likely, the test conditions are not the same. One user has one kind of monitor, another user has another brand. One user is playing one title of content. Another has different content, or the same content that was ripped or converted in a different manner.

To focus on where the problem is and where the problem isn't, there should be a common 3D media file used, or set of test files. There should be reporting of the firmware version used in the 1186 box. There should be reporting of the monitor make and model connected, and how the media was streamed into the player.

Too many variable and there's not enough consistency for the vendors to make firmware updates. It's like trying to build a house by throwing different sized stones into a mud puddle.

I have never found a media player that played everything perfectly right "out of the box". If you want to achieve progress, be diligent in reporting what was wrong.

Anyone can make an immature self serving snide remark, and typically those doing so do not seek to improve things.

I've posted several new issues and other problems I've run into starting on page 8 of the Micca EP950 thread. I am currently still using the latest HiMedia firmware beta 1.0.3.5 so anybody interested can take a look there.

Bottom line: Lots of stuttering even now that I have an internal HDD installed. As mentioned above, it seems to be a timing thing, happening at specific intervals like mentioned above.

I think HokeySmoke is onto something here when he said "this is clearly a frame rate conversion problem. Movies are 23.976 fps, and the HD900 is sending out 24 fps. Therefore every 1000 frames (42 seconds) you will get a dropped frame."

As I talk about in the Micca thread, all my playback issues seem to be when I play any files at 1080p@24. When in 1080p@60 or 720p@60 I don't seem to notice any stutter.

And the power on/off issue is out of conteol. It took 7 tries yesterday for me to get the player to turn on. It took 5 today a couple times.

When trying to get the unit to turn on and it fails, does it turn itself off each time, or just not turn on at all? How long do you wait before trying to turn it on again? Does waiting make a difference?

It turns off virtually instantly. The red power light illuminates white for a fraction of a second, the screen begins to come up, then the screen goes blank again and the white power light goes red. All this happens in less than a second.

I then try again, maybe a second or two between tries, and repeat until it decides to stay on. Sometimes it starts right up on the first try, but most times it takes 2 -7 times before it starts up properly. It happens both when I use the remote and when I use the button on the front of the unit. And I removed the protective film over the front panel.

I'm not sure from your response if you tried the following. After the unit turns off, wait two minutes before trying to turn it back on. See if it comes on first try after waiting two minutes.

Also, after the unit power adapter is first plugged in, wait two minutes before attempting to turn the unit on.

Not sure of the two minute wait time I mentioned. I am applying an educated guess that maybe the unit needs more time before it is ready to turn back on.

If "waiting two minutes before attempting to turn the unit back on," makes a difference in that the unit always powers up correctly, then reduce the two minute interval to shorter times, in order to determine how long the unit needs to be off, before it is ready to be turned back on.

If "waiting two minutes before attempting to turn the unit back on," does not make a difference, and you still have to try five or seven times, then we learned that "waiting" makes no difference.

Well, maybe this will answer that right away. The player can sit there for hours unused, and then when I go to turn it on for the first time of the day, it will do the on/off thing immediately. That's after the unit has sat there all night.

In fact I just tried now to turn it on, and I haven't had it on for over an hour, and right away it turned right back off again. I also waited 3 minutes and tried it again, still the same thing. I gave up after the second try because I just wanted to test out the theory a bit. Since I'm not watching anything else tonight I'll leave it alone since apparently that's what it wants.

I have to unplug the power from the back of mine then it seems to work.Only happens now and then but frustrating.Mine is 900b but the same basically as yours.
Mine freezes all white on the front panel.

Both of the above from eagle_2 and denass are excellent information.

Thanks for the reply.

Have you guys ruled out the power brick as a possible source of the power problems? If you're anything like me, you have enough 12vdc (2 to 4 amps) transformers around the house to choke horse. Startup is when the toughest stress is lashed out on the power supply transformer, and difficult startup is a sign of power supply troubles.

If I'm reading right, it seems that at least some people with the HiMedia/Micca x9xx aren't having this trouble. I haven't read anything similar about other 1186 models like IconBit.

When you power down are you in standby or have power completely off? Also what I do is sequence power to units in the chain. Any unit that presents a load to a preceding stage is turned on first when powering up and vise versa when powering down. Feeding a piece of unpowered equipment with powered equipment can have strange loading affects. I'm presently using hd900b.1.0.3.5.2012.2.12.op firmware for my 900b. Don't have power up problem to date.

This is more than likely due to the player playing at 24fps instead of using 23.976 fps which is what the content is encoded at.

Along those lines, I made two test files yesterday. They are linked to here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1ipofxrjnjzzmdo
Sorry about the ads - look for the "Download (8.92MB)" button. Feel free to mirror this to a better site if you like.

The files are moving bar test patterns along with a frame counter. The top bar moves at 32 pixels per frame, and each bar below moves at half of the speed of the one above it. I synthesized the pattern in AVISynth and encoded it using FFMPEG. Both files are Blu-ray compliant H.264 .m2ts files. They are both encoded at 23.976Hz (24/1.001). They play without stuttering on my Popcorn Hour A-110. They both stutter on the HD900A with 1.0.3.5 Beta from an NTFS hard drive connected through USB.

MotionBars_1080p23.976.m2ts is a 2D file.
MotionBarsSBS_1080p23.976.m2ts is a 3D side-by-side file. It does not have the 3D flag set so you will need to manually put the player into 3D mode.

These are 2-minute files. The stuttering should occur 2 times during the clip (every 42 seconds starting at a random time) You can set the title to loop using the "repeat" key to give you more time to see it.

Since both of these files have exactly the same stuttering, I have to assume that this problem is not isolated to 3D, but also affects 2D.

The monitor, in my opinion, does not matter, as long as it is faithful to the source. So, given that I can use a different media player and have no stuttering, that confirms that the monitor (in my case) is indeed irrelevant. Note also that active 3D monitors are required to be frame-locked to the source or you will lose phase to the eyes. So if you use an active 3D monitor, you should feel safe that any frame drops are not caused by it.

This problem sounds like a defective unit.

Although it works after powering up, there is something wrong, since other users do not report that problem. The problem may simply always be a pain, requiring extra time to turn it on, or it may be indicative of another problem that could get worse.

I am not giving advice, though if this was my unit, I would restore the original firmware, test and see if the problem still occurs. If still has the power up problem with original firmware, I'd arrange for an RMA.

I would contact the dealer that sold it to my, and / or my credit card company, and the original manufacturer if the dealer did not give satisfaction.

Is this an Iconbit unit? If so, is it an inherent problem in Iconbit units? If so, it should not be a detraction from those buying other units from other vendors, such as this HiMedia and the other Micca threads that are also seeing this problem report.

Questions now are if the problem is particular to the brand purchased bought, and how the party the unit was purchase from handles the RMA, which is now much more focused to the actual brand and vendor.

Also, I might want a refund instead of a replacement, unless this stuttering issue was resolved.

My unit is the Micca EP950 with the HiMedia 1.0.3.5. firmware installed. If I flash back to the original firmware then I lose functionality, like the swap feature for 3D. I tried the Iconbit last month but returned it because of the same exact stuttering issues that this player is having.

I thought a lot of users are having power issues. So now I'm the only one having this issue?

mkoss, when I power up the player is completely off. I didn't even know there is a standby mode on the Micca/HiMedia.

I got the test files unzipped and will use them. Good work on making that.

I notice that these are both 2D files. Although one file contains SBS, they could both be played out of the HiMedia in 2D, and the one that is SBS could be selected for SBS 3D playback at the monitor instead of inside the player menu. I wonder if that makes a difference.

This could allow more concise testing by other users with other monitors, other firmware versions, and other players. Again - thanks for the test files...

There is still a possibility that the Himedia has an issue supporting some monitors and not with others, since there is two way communication over HDMI, and the player is supposed to produce a rate that is compatible with the monitor.

Have you tried other firmware versions, besides the 1.0.3.5 Beta, to see if they also stutter?

Even if other users were reporting this exact power up issue, some users aren't having that problem. If this were my unit, I'd flash to original Micca firmware and see if the power problem is still there, and if so, RMA it. If flashing firmware makes the problem go away, I'd try other versions too, and make a decision if I wanted to return it, swap it, or use it for a doorstop.

If bought through Amazon, they are superb for returns in the 1st 30 days. I see the Micca support person actively helping with RMA, though Amazon has an easy automated process.

A far as the stuttering goes, I just downloaded and played both test files posted by HokeySmoke above. As expected, playing at 1080p@24, both the 2d and 3D files stutter exactly 42 seconds apart. The first stutter seems to occur at a random time, then 42 seconds later it stutters again.

When playing at 1080p@60, the file does not stutter. I played the 2D file at 1080p@60 with no stutter, and then I played the 3D sbs file at 1080p@60 and didn't switch to 3D mode, I just let it play sbs, and it also played smoothly at 60fps, no stutter.

It's clear to me that this player will not play files without stutter in 1080p@24. The only way to get smooth playback is 1080p@60 or 720p@60, neither of which works for 3D ISOs with this player. I tried playing a 3D ISO last night while my video output was selected for 720p@60, and the screen went black when I started playback, the player froze for a full minute, and it eventually rebooted. It did that both times I tried to play the ISO at 720p@60. After I switched back to 1080p@60, it played the ISO fine, switching to 1080p@24 automatically when playback starts. So I can't even play 3D ISOs smoothly with this unit because I can't select 720p@60 as an output.

I also experienced a weird green flash a couple times while I played the files, but I played the files several times, and it didn't flash every time I played the files, only happened a couple times. Not sure what that was all about.

How do you have your unit setup? What is the output to the tv? Do you have 24p set on, on the player?

It's connected via HDMI 1.4a. As stated above, I tested the files with the output at both 1080p@60 and 1080p@24.

- I set the video output to 1080p@60 with 24fps on, and it stuttered.
- I then turned off 24fps and left it at 1080p@60, and it didn't stutter.

I can't say this for sure but I believe these problems with stutter are related to interface issues with certain displays as opposed to a defective unit . I don't see any stuttering going through the vip displayer and my projectors for either my 900B or my iconbit.

Apology if you already wrote it, but can you please say which firmware version you're using in the 900B and iconbit? Thanks

for the himedia it's hd900b.1.0.3.5.2012.2.12.op firmware
and for the iconbit is I believe XDS1003D firmware ver.7297

If this was DVI, then I would agree. But HDMI 3D is very simple. There is only one bit in the EDID of a 3D display to indicate support of all of the mandatory modes. If the bit is present, it's a 3D display. That's it for the communication. So if the bit is present then the HD900 will send 3D in whatever format it wants (which seems to be 1080p@24.00Hz frame-packed) as long as it's a mandatory mode. There is no specific 3D mode information for any of the mandatory modes that could be in error in the EDID.

Since the VIP alters frame rates, I wonder how that is interacting with this, perhaps masking an issue with these players.

Have you tried direct playback of HoleySmoke 2D and SBS files from your players to your projector without the VIP in the system, to see if there is any 24p stuttering with that setup?

Which projector make and model is used?

Thanks for considering my question.

No, I haven't.