CES 2012 - what to expect? - Page 2

More about the upcomming OLED-TV´s by LG and Samsung:


http://www.oled-display.net/samsung-...v-at-ces-2012/

technology background:

http://oled-a.org/news_details.cfm?ID=744

The new XXL LCD panels from Sharp using also the new oxide TFT technology.

Costco had the 85" Panasonic Plasma for about $9000 earlier this year. *Almost* affordable.

A few facts:

1. Energy Star 4 is no longer applicable. It is now Energy Star 5.3 as of October 2011 and that has a maximum of 108 watts when tested in the Energy Star method.
a. http://downloads.energystar.gov/bi/q..._prod_list.pdf
b. There are two PDFs at this location. One is the list of TV that qualify under 5.3 (see the top of the first page) and the other is a summary of the requirements.
2. Energy Star is a voluntary program so no TV is required to be Energy Star qualified, but it does make for good marketing if they are.
3. California has not yet changed their laws. The California laws on maximum power consumption apply to TVs under 58. The law does not apply to TVs 58 and over and the law does not make TVs over 58 illegal either.

I csan not believe that a 85" plasma would use 12 times more power dueing normal viewing than a 50" set.

The California mandatory rules that go into effect next year are less restrctive then the Federal Energy Star 4 Guidelines.

LG specifically avoided committing to mass producing the OLED TV. They did, however, made some vague statements suggesting they could actually build them and intended to do so. Forgive the skepticism as we've heard this before. I'd like to see a prototype at CES, of course.

As for plasmas and the new Energy Star, it's not going to happen for the larger ones anytime soon. What does that mean? I dunno. It'll hurt a bit in the marketplace, but not a ton. If I was Panasonic, I'd probably actually up my overall brightness since I can't even comply anymore. Not sure what that means for the California rules and at what size they might get in trouble there. Absent a lumens/watt breakthrough reaching the market sometime soon, however, plasmas will seem very gluttonous.

I think we'll see incremental improvements to the current models.

If we see 4K, I think it will be in prototype form only - nothing for sale in 2012. Because without a 4K content source, what's the point anyway?

Between the economy, the earthquake in Japan, the flooding in Thailand, Apple tying up a lot of manufacturing resources in China, the only recent release of the Sharp Elites and the fact that Sony is only now getting around to releasing the 65" 929, I don't expect a lot of big changes at this CES. Yes, they'll be 2012 models with new model numbers, but it will be more like the car industry between big model upgrades.

(While not the same market, I attended the Audio Engineering Society convention last weekend and it was (to my perception) the smallest show in many years. I think that's a reflection of the economy. For example, Dolby usually takes a large booth at the show - usually at least a 30' x 20'. This year they came only with a 3' backdrop and a computer. No equipment on display, no literature, etc. )

What I'd really like to see at CES is some traction on the receiver and TV manufacturers tackling the user interface and configuration issues. But I don't think we're going to see anything major in that regard. I don't even think Pioneer will do overlay yet in next year's models. I don't know whether OPPO goes to CES, but I'd love to be surprised by upgrades/replacements to the 93/95, if they can find something substantial to add or improve.

IIRC, CES used to be held twice a year: Winter in Vegas and Summer in Chicago. Although I understand why they cut back to an annual show, it's too bad it's still not twice a year because I could see a lot more progress being demonstrated if the show were held in June.

Spring CES was last held in 1997. Talk about misplaced nostalgia.

IFA Berlin handles the fall announcement calendar just fine, not sure what you think would occur with more shows. Technology development is not a function of trade shows.

I don't know maybe I am reading it wrong or is has the wrong specs, but it says near the bottom of the TH-85PF12U fact sheet:

Power Requirements: 120 V AC, 50 Hz/60 Hz
Power Consumption: 1250 W
Power off condition: 0.2 W
Stand-by condition: Save OFF: 1.0 W, Save ON: 0.5 W

http://www.panasonic.com/business/pl...inch/index.asp

The Toshiba ZL2 55" 4K/Glasses free 3D set is supposed to be release in the next few months. It also up converts all 1080p signals to its native 4K resolution. While it is true there is not a lot of native 4K material, the main push of 4k resolution will be to push passive 3D. With passive, glasses free 3D, you lose half the resolution. So by going 4k you finally get true 1080p passive HD 3D. Also, the new standard Intel graphic processor coming in all new desktops, laptops and tablets will be capable of smooth 4K playback. It is also going to be used in some upcoming video game releases. With Sharp pushing these larger 80-90-100" screen sizes it will start to become necessary. Some movies are already shot in digital 4K resolution, so transfers would be easy. George Lucas can't wait to release the 4K 3D blu-ray of Star Wars so he can make more money from the fans. Most likely it will be a few years until it really takes off, but it will probably get here before large size, affordable OLED vaporware.

8K already? I guess this is why Apple is getting into the TV business. They can sell you a 4K Apple TV set next year and then in 2 years sell you an Apple TV2 at 8K resolution. They will probably even have a trade in program like they do with the iPhone. They are trying to copy the certified used car business model. Make the product once. In 2 years when the new one comes out, they take the trade in, clean it up and sell it at a reduced priced to the people who could not afford it originally.

If you have any questions about 2012 CES, we're happy to help.

Thank you and welcome to AVS!

In todays Korea Times on line it was mentioned that Samsung will show a 55" OLED TV at the show:

"Samsung plans to exhibit a 55-inch OLED TV in the upcoming International Consumer Electronics Show (ICES) in Las Vegas in January next year, and it will heavily promote them ahead of the London Olympics the same year."

Any truth to that? Somehow, I expected LG would be the one.

We have updates on our Facebook page, and will make announcements as information is available. That's the best we can provide in relation to up and coming details about 2012 CES. As for what companies are doing what, you may want to reach out to them directly.

Not sure what to expect for 2012 but I hope for larger screen sizes for PDPs (PN64D8000 here)as well as a brighter 3D image. I've had friends over recently and they think the 64 inch set is huge while for me every time l'm watching something on it, my mind is on a larger screen. I'd also like a large passive LED/LCD with no blurring and full resolution to each eye. Sharp is on the right track for my money with that 80 inch set.

LG partnership with Sony for OLED-TV´s and passive 3D-TV´s by Sony with LG FPR technology?


http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...129_97705.html

Just pointing out that everything in the Korea Times article is "stuff LG wants to happen". It might all happen, but basically it's LG's PR people trying to drum up the idea that Sony has all sorts of interest in what they are doing.

We'll see.

I'm excited for the OLED days to be here, but I still think they are a couple of years away from a truly affordable (sub $3K), mass market OLED in a large size. Though I hope they produce one that gets people excited this year.

All I would really like is a passive 3D, matte screen, with a full array, local dimming. Having now been through 4-tv's in the past two years, I have to say that this edge lit garbage is exactly that, garbage. My 6-year old Sharp has better uniformity. The TV world appears to have taken a step backwards in PQ in the name of thinness.

I agree! I'm tired of the mirrors that they are manufacturing at the moment. Improved glass would be a very positive step in the right direction.

A couple of years? It will be more years than that.

A less reflective screen is always welcome...and even incremental improvements are better than none. The above picture is a little misleading as it has the advantage of the angle and less can lights in the reflection. Look at the rectangular shadow that straddles the inside of each piece of glass, not much difference. AR filters are like viewing angles, every year a manufacturer claims something ground breaking and the reality is, ahh not so much.

Of the 2 panels in that picture, I'll take the one on the right. I think this is a better picture.



You can barely make out the edges of the Nippon glass. It is a 30 nanometer coating they apply to the front and the back. I don't see it being that hard to implement into the production facility or really adding a significant cost to the panel, so hopefully it will start being used soon.

I am very intrested in a 70 or 75 Panny. Do have a reason to believe they are coming in 2012?

- Rich

Somehow, I do not find an article claiming "almost no size limit" comforting

- Rich

The AR coating we see above is cool, I doubt very much it's production ready for 2012 however.

As for Rich's link, my concern is the much smaller Panasonic TV division might cut back on being aggressive product-wise as well. It'd be short sighted, but who knows. We'll learn more soon.