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PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post) - Page 42

post #1231 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I actually think that the low sales numbers has a lot to do with the upcoming announcements and true next gen hardware. Most people that know about the WiiU, know that it is really only catching up the the 360 and PS3, so why spend $350 on that console when you can wait and see what the big boys say.
I hope you're right. But common sense tells me otherwise.

The Wii did just fine against its HD counterparts. And even accounting for Nintendo's relatively poor marketing campaign and slim release slate, those are still really low numbers. This is about something else. What that "something else" is remains to be seen. I just hope that Sony doesn't make the same error by chasing the same incredibly fickle casual market.

The rumors look very encouraging for Sony. It looks like MS is chasing hard after the Wii's casuals (media and Kinect are large focuses). Sony, on the other hand, looks to be hedging its bets and only doing a mild push after media and Move. But we won't know for sure until Wednesday.

The lesson learned from Wii U: it's all about the games.
post #1232 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I hope you're right. But common sense tells me otherwise.

The Wii did just fine against its HD counterparts. And even accounting for Nintendo's relatively poor marketing campaign and slim release slate, those are still really low numbers. This is about something else. What that "something else" is remains to be seen. I just hope that Sony doesn't make the same error by chasing the same incredibly fickle casual market.
It did well, but how many people let it collect dust shortly after getting it? I think that a lot of the "casual" people that picked it up thinking it was going to be so much fun moved on to the next thing, so the sales numbers are so low because you are only getting the real hard core nintendo fans buying the console right now.
post #1233 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

Controller pic from another angle:



Sticks a little further apart, extensions have more thickness and are longer. Hope these trends make it past prototype stage.

Also I notice that the angle between the extensions and the sticks is less severe. So when you hold the controller at rest your thumbs would point almost straight up, rather than towards each other, which would be another improvement imo.
Looks much slimmer in that pic. Supposedly these images are fairly recent and from a near-final build. Besides, those controllers look way too finished to be all that early. Wouldn't be surprised if we see Kaz hold up a controller that looks exactly like that on Wednesday.
post #1234 of 1994
Yeah Wii was more like a fad. I had one for under a month before returning it. Childish, simplistic, terrible graphics... but for a moment there was nothing else like it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

It did well, but how many people let it collect dust shortly after getting it? I think that a lot of the "casual" people that picked it up thinking it was going to be so much fun moved on to the next thing, so the sales numbers are so low because you are only getting the real hard core nintendo fans buying the console right now.
post #1235 of 1994
I had a Wii just as they started to become easily found at big box stores. Sold it after 6 months. Picked up another one 2 years later b/c I thought my kids would like to play Mario and what not. Sold it after 6 months.

Kids DO like those 3DS's though ... and it pisses me off that I can't play w/ them w/o spending more $$.
post #1236 of 1994
I like the 5 cords coming out the back. It means my dream has come true...multiplayer all by myself! smile.gif
post #1237 of 1994
Not much here that hasn't already talked about. But it will be very interesting next week to see whether this stuff is lemon or lemonade. How both companies deploy the assets against gaming in the way I want it will make or break it for me. I won't just buy a name or franchise for the sake of it, next time around.

http://gamingbolt.com/durango-vs-orbis-head-to-head-analysis-of-the-pros-and-cons

"The gaming industry is literally at an all time high with insane amounts of anticipation as well as suspicion as to what the next generation consoles will bring about. With only a few days to go before Sony reveals the PlayStation 4 to the entire world, we thought it will be interesting to see where the two next generation consoles i.e. Orbis and Durango stand head to head.
In this analysis we take a deep look in to the rumored specifications of both the consoles and decide what it will eventually mean for game developers and most importantly, for the gamers themselves.
Let us first take a look at the rumored specs of Orbis and Durango."

Orbis Specifications
8 core CPU: 1.6 GHz AMD Jaguar
18 core GPU, design based on AMD’s Radeon HD 7000 Series
4GB of GDDR5 RAM
3.5 GB data to be available to games
50 GB Blu Ray Disc, X6 Speed

Durango Specifications
8 core CPU: 1.6 GHz AMD Jaguar
12 core GPU, design based on AMD’s Radeon HD 7000 Series
8GB of DDR3 RAM
6.5 GB data to be available to games
50 GB Blu Ray Disc, X6 Speed

CPU:

Both, the Orbis and Durango are rumored to run on an 8 core CPU at 1.6 Ghz. They will be grouped in to two clusters. In majority of the cases processor speed is all that matters. In extremely rare cases, the game’s performance will be dependent on the on-board cache. The Orbis is rumored to be shipping with a shared 512MB L2 cache and on the other hand the Durango will have 4MB L2 cache. Now on paper, Orbis seems to have the upper hand, but according to us cache memory does not matter since data is mostly processed by the CPU on the fly.

Floating Point Operations Per Second:

For this you need to understand the meaning behind FLOPS. Floating Point Operations Per Second basically means: “a method of encoding real numbers within the limits of finite precision available on computers.” Or in another words, the ease with which computers can calculate a large range of numbers quickly. So basically the more FLOPS your computer can perform, the more quickly it can process data.
Orbis is capable of doing 1.843 TeraFLOPS in the GPU department whereas the Durango can do 1.23. So all your game related operations like pixel drawing and other complex calculations will be faster on the Orbis. But since we are dealing with Tflops, people using both the Durango and Orbis will see next to no difference.

GPU and RAM:

The GPU of the Orbis is based on AMD’s “R10XX” (Southern Islands) architecture and has a DirectX 11.1 feature set. Most games will still be made on OpenGL, but the feature set is good to have which suggests that the Liverpool GPU is an enhanced version of the architecture. It also contains 18 Compute Units. The main clock runs at 800mhz and it is capable of 1.843 Tflops.
The Durango GPU, meanwhile, is said to be a slower than the Orbis with a total output of 1.23 Tflops. This isn’t a bad thing however, since we don’t have proper documentation for it. The GPU’s main memory runs at 800mhz, just like the one in the Orbis, and features 12 shader cores providing a total of 768 threads.

Orbis’ RAM is said to be GDDR5, which is a RAM with a higher bandwidth speed, and also quite expensive. It’s a miracle Sony have gone with such an exotic configuration as they feel they didn’t do enough justice to the PS3, where many developers complained about the less amount of RAM. The system has given 500MB to the OS, which leaves us with a decent amount of memory, which can last an entire generation without causing bottlenecks.

The Durango is said to have 8GB DDR3 RAM, which you can normally find in desktop PCs, however, the thing with Durango is that it also has a 32MB eSRAM to complement it. The eSRAM provides very high bandwidth and also takes a lot of space on the die, but it sort of nullifies the slower DDR3 memory the system has.

However, considering the Orbis has a non-split memory structure and a RAM that will not need a lot of optimization from developers, we could see games running better on the system until developers can learn how to take advantage of the Durango RAM structure properly.
We can say that both the systems have an advantage and can result in great games if they are developed with each system’s strengths in mind.

Applications:

Microsoft are clearly going to provide a more application based product with the Durango. Out of the 8GB they are allocating 1.5 GB to the OS. So one can expect more social applications on the Durango during it’s life time, something which we have already seen on the Xbox 360. Expect a lot of Kinect 2 support too.

Sony on the other hand will be allocating 0.5 GB to the OS, which should run a decent number of applications. I am sure Gaikai will be one of the applications that will be shipped along with the PS4.
What It Means For The Game Developers And Gamers:

On paper, the Orbis clearly has a better hardware with a better graphic card and a powerful RAM. But will developers use them to the fullest? That remains to be seen. Judging by the current generation and the advent of multiplatform games, very few developers will be using the full resources of the Orbis.

With development costs going high and next gen consoles following a PC like development module, expect the current trend to continue on the Orbis with better first party and multiplatform games that will perform similar to the Durango.
One thing’s for sure, Orbis unlike the PlayStation 3 should not be getting any flak from the developers regarding it’s architecture.
Both the Orbis and Durango will have something unique to offer. The Durango will be offering a totally new set of social media features, coupled with Kinect functionality. Whereas, Sony will pushing cloud based gaming with Gaikai.

Conclusion:

Sony are indeed putting their best foot forward. But does a powerful hardware mean better games?
Games is where it all matters. Right now there are more questions that answers. Hopefully we will get them answered in the coming days and weeks.
Stay tuned for more news and updates.
post #1238 of 1994
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I don't understand the point of the speaker on the controller. I don't see what good it will do. If I am chatting, I will have a headset on, and I either play with the tv turned up or my turtle beaches on, so I don't see why I would ever use it. On a good note, I like this controller the more I look at it. I am not for the gimmicky motion stuff, so seeing the move possibly being on it does nothing for me, and I am skeptical of the touch pad, but give me a bigger controller with what looks like better tips to the sticks and I am a happy camper.
The purpose of it is to provide voice audio a place to go when separated from game audio. This is especially true if the controller has some mic abilities. Not everyone wants to use a headset, and having a mini speaker on the DS4 allows this to happen.
post #1239 of 1994
So everyone in my living room will get to hear people talking trash? That doesn't sound like a great idea. I just wish it was next Wednesday already. Hopefully they will talk about a lot of details about the PS4.
post #1240 of 1994
I can count on one hand how many times I've played with friends online. This is mostly b/c we like different games. I like FPSs but only with someone else as I'm not good enough at them solo to buy a game. As far as playing online solo it's usually not a lot of fun because all the 12 yr olds out there destroy me since I don't have the kind of time to be as good as they are. I'm a grown up and have a life with school, work, bills etc. So the cross chat holds no interest to me. Don't care to hear little punks talking trash after they've capped me for the tenth time as I materialize back into a game.
post #1241 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

I can count on one hand how many times I've played with friends online. This is mostly b/c we like different games. I like FPSs but only with someone else as I'm not good enough at them solo to buy a game. As far as playing online solo it's usually not a lot of fun because all the 12 yr olds out there destroy me since I don't have the kind of time to be as good as they are. I'm a grown up and have a life with school, work, bills etc. So the cross chat holds no interest to me. Don't care to hear little punks talking trash after they've capped me for the tenth time as I materialize back into a game.
I enjoy the party chat feature and even the private chat feature on the Xbox and hope they do something like this on PS4. It's nice to pop in and just chat with a friend while you guys play different games. That being said, unless I can convince a couple of my friends to jump on the ps4, I will probably be the only one I know getting one.
post #1242 of 1994
I wish thay NPD still released numbers publicly and listed all sales sources, because all of these "NPD leaks" are so fuzzy and VGchartz is worthless, we have no solid numbers other than what is included in the quarterly financial reports each company puts out.

Nintendo's Wii U sales are still higher than the 360 and PS3 November to January totals, but if those numbers are accurate, the gap has shrunk quite a bit if the 57k is accurate.
post #1243 of 1994
That built-in speaker is a mystery. I'm having a hard time imagining a use for it. The Wii remote had one, but it was pointless. Maybe it's their solution to keeping voices/chat low in the audio mix without using headphones? But why wouldn't you then just include a separate option for voice volume? Doesn't make much sense (yet).
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Nintendo's Wii U sales are still higher than the 360 and PS3 November to January totals, but if those numbers are accurate, the gap has shrunk quite a bit if the 57k is accurate.
Spin it however you like, those Wii U numbers are terrible--and that's including an extra week tacked into those January totals. We know for sure they're below 100k, and reports are saying somewhere between 40k and 60k. If sales were good, Nintendo would have reported them. But they had to make serious adjustments to their projected quarterly totals (about half of what they originally projected).

It's no wonder they're putting so much behind the 3DS now. They're going to have to come up with some major magic to start moving those Wii U consoles ahead of the big announcements from Sony and MS.
post #1244 of 1994
What if it's just ventilation?
post #1245 of 1994
The speaker is likely more of a "why not?", than a "why?". It doesn't detract in any way.
post #1246 of 1994
Because if it was it would be on the back. Who would want air blowing on their face?
post #1247 of 1994
Is it possible that that "speaker" is actually a mic and that the jack on the bottom is a headphone jack? That would allow any pair of headphones/earbuds to be used without needing to invest in a full blown gaming headset. Possible?
post #1248 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan View Post

Is it possible that that "speaker" is actually a mic and that the jack on the bottom is a headphone jack? That would allow any pair of headphones/earbuds to be used without needing to invest in a full blown gaming headset. Possible?
That would be an awesome idea if it were true. But I agree with BD, it isn't going to detract anyone from buying the system. I like to use a surround headset and will be getting one next gen too, so it is just something I wouldn't use.
post #1249 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

Because if it was it would be on the back. Who would want air blowing on their face?
Didn't say fan but whatever...
post #1250 of 1994
Well if that Move LED puts out one gorram lensflare I'm throwing mine in the trash where it belongs.
post #1251 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

Y'know, I picked up my controller while looking at the prototype pics last night, and I don't really see a front touchpad making it into the final controller. Really, hold your controller like normal, and what finger would you use with it? You would have to use your thumbs, or let go of the controller with one hand to rotate your fingers up. Meanwhile, I can easily reach the back of the controller with my fingers while holding it normally. This was just an early prototype after all. I really think the controller will resemble the Vita moreso than it does this prototype with regards to configuration, especially for the possibilities of remote play.

Stop thinking games, and start thinking applications and it makes perfect sense. Pinch to zoom, gestures for applications, maybe a swipe text input. Lot and lots of functionality a small touchpad can do, and make use of that button pressing and sticks can't. I'm pretty happy with this implementation, beats T9 text entry or a pop up, controller keyboard if they use it right!
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I don't understand the point of the speaker on the controller. I don't see what good it will do. If I am chatting, I will have a headset on, and I either play with the tv turned up or my turtle beaches on, so I don't see why I would ever use it. On a good note, I like this controller the more I look at it. I am not for the gimmicky motion stuff, so seeing the move possibly being on it does nothing for me, and I am skeptical of the touch pad, but give me a bigger controller with what looks like better tips to the sticks and I am a happy camper.

Well, if it's a mic/speaker, as long as your controller is charged, so is your Mic. Less is more, right? (less charging, less cords, less losing that damn BT earpiece). People that don't have a dedicated headseat can just plug earbuds into the port. VC dedicated to controller speaker, instead of mixed into the normal audio mix. Lots of pluses really, and it's actually pretty ingenious that no one has done this yet.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the built in move, and how it'll work. Prob won't use it much, but I'm sure it'll have it's uses for some people.
post #1252 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

I can count on one hand how many times I've played with friends online. This is mostly b/c we like different games. I like FPSs but only with someone else as I'm not good enough at them solo to buy a game. As far as playing online solo it's usually not a lot of fun because all the 12 yr olds out there destroy me since I don't have the kind of time to be as good as they are. I'm a grown up and have a life with school, work, bills etc. So the cross chat holds no interest to me. Don't care to hear little punks talking trash after they've capped me for the tenth time as I materialize back into a game.

You haven't joined a laid back beer clan of adult gamers yet?

Never play with the riffraff!
post #1253 of 1994
Ooh Swype keypad....
post #1254 of 1994
Thread Starter 
Wall Street Journal says PS3 BC will be available via Gaikai streaming:

Quote:
Sony Corp. 6758.TO -1.87% is planning to offer technology to stream games to its next videogame console, people familiar with the company's plans say, alongside other enhancements to bolster its position in the market.

The new technology, to be unveiled Wednesday along with the new console, will allow users to play games delivered over the Internet, these people said. The streaming service, they added, is designed to use current PlayStation 3 titles on the new console; the new device is also expected to play new games stored on optical discs.

Sony's plans come after it acquired Gaikai Inc. last year for $380 million. Though many companies now offer simple games over the Internet, Gaikai was one of several companies that offered online access to visually intense games, which ordinarily require specialized circuitry found on high-end personal computers and gaming consoles.

The streaming technology is one of the new features and enhancements expected to be offered with the new console, which Sony plans to unveil at an event in New York. Sony's new PlayStation, for example, may control the action with higher fidelity cameras for its "Move" motion-sensing technology and touch-sensing pads on new controllers, according to people who have seen and been briefed on the devices.

Someone tell the WSJ that streaming games still requires "specialized circuitry found on high-end personal computers and gaming consoles", except that all of that stuff originates on the server side instead of the client side.
post #1255 of 1994
So you pop in a PS3 disc and it steams the game to you via Gaikai?
post #1256 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

You haven't joined a laid back beer clan of adult gamers yet?

Never play with the riffraff!
Is that an offer?
post #1257 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

So you pop in a PS3 disc and it steams the game to you via Gaikai?

Presumably. I don't believe it though. Hiring a team of the best engineers they can find to write a solid emulator is going to be infinitely less expensive than hosting server farms to provide BC. They need to pay for those servers, the bandwidth etc. What are their options there? An army full of custom PS3s designed for streaming? An all new cell based game server? These are just ridiculous expenses to provide BC. Either its cell CPUs or its emulation, and if it's emulation, its better off done locally. If they need more than a PS4 to do it, they need to hire better people and make it work.

Also, streaming games sucks. Between the latency and the image degradation, why even bother.
post #1258 of 1994
I bet the streaming thing will be like they did for the HD versions of classic titles. A few here and there, not the entire catalog. I'm curious if you have to buy them again or be Plus member. In fact that's the one thing I most curious about, how much stuff that's free now get's moved behind Plus.
post #1259 of 1994
I just hope Uncharted 4 is a launch title. Otherwise I don't see a point in buying one when they first come out because the launch games, as always, are going to suck. But if they have a sequel to a proven franchise, I could see getting one at release.
post #1260 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by blklightning View Post

I just hope Uncharted 4 is a launch title. Otherwise I don't see a point in buying one when they first come out because the launch games, as always, are going to suck. But if they have a sequel to a proven franchise, I could see getting one at release.

I have a feeling Last Guardian is a launch title.
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