PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post) - Page 12

No, but I'd be interested to see a chart showing how big Gamestop's slice of the pie for game sales is, compared to other physical/online outlets. They are the largest dedicated game retailer in North America, correct? I can't imagine Gamestop refusing to carry next gen systems because they can't make money off the used market, being a good thing for any of the stakeholders.

What makes you think you won't be in the same boat...unless you want to use cracked copies of the software.

Why are the consoles "DOOMED" if they adopt the same style of DRM that PC games have? I like my games on disc and I have close to 30 for my PS3, yet I'm wondering why this rumor is such a problem.

If it does become reality then games on console (disc and DD) will be run just like they are from Steam. Everyone loves Steam, yet Steam locks its games to one user, requires an online activation, requires broadband, and there's no way to sell your games when you're done. Not sure why folks say their gonna jump to PC gaming, when PC gaming already has the exact same system in place.

Because this rumored DRM on consoles will extend to discs is where folks get upset and I'm with them. If this happens, if everyone copies the Steam system, and if the packages are clearly marked as to what's going on, then the consoles would be fine implementing this. Like anything else the execution is important, and a slow and buggy registration system will make it hard for people to accept. If it runs smoothly then I honestly think many will never notice the difference.

I think the main difference with the two systems is that Steam actually has sales. If you look at the price for the downloadable full games on either XBL or PSN, the prices are extremely high and almost never come down except for a small sale here or there.

There are also console gamers who 'don't' game on PC expressly because of the kind of DRM control that PC gamers face. I'd imagine people in that boat would be less than thrilled to see that kind of control take place on the console side. Though I suppose it was inevitable, we could clearly see the signs this current gen.

It's all speculation though, so best to not put too much stock in it at present. If I recall, prior to PS3 launch some 6 years ago the 'no used games' rumor showed up back then and was proven to be false. I guess 'we'll see'......

Look at the prices on Steam for games that just released and you pay about the same as everywhere else. Those killer sales are, in most cases, on titles that have been out for quite a while. Good deals but usually not brand new software. If PSN/XBL becomes the main way to get games the sales and discounts will come.

I thought DRM was the problem rather than price.

Yep, same thing all over again rumor-wise. We'll know it when it happens, but there's plenty of folks already up in arms.

The outrage is what killed it before it took off, but with the massive publisher outcry, you can bet that they will strongly consider it no matter how bad the fan outcry is. The question is if the new Kickstarter will put even more pressure onto the publishers.


Steam sales occur often and prices drop faster than disc based console titles, then you have the fact that almost all games will hit $5 within 2-3 years of their release during some kind of sale. PSN and Live don't do those kind of sales and odds are they won't do it ANY time soon, why should they? The best sale I have seen on there was the recent Final Fantasy sale for the Spring Fever, I got FF7 for under $5 since I am a PS+ member, I can't buy the game new anymore and lost my old copy and wanted to play it and that was the cheapest way to get it. ($25 + used since it is now considered "Rare and Collectable")

Steam sales are to combat piracy, and encourage games that are old and would normally only be availible used on consoles from still providing devs with an income, but it can also backfire. Several devs have regretted some of their sales because it actually hurt their bottom line and killed a lot of potential income because of just how well it sold during the sale.

My biggest issue with steam is what happens if they kill my account somehow (say it got hacked and they couldn't recover it) I have then lost everything and there is nothing I can do about it. (at least if I lost a physical copy to theft ofrfire my house insurance would offer me something, but what if it happens to my digital copy?) This is the biggest issue with Steam like services, you don't own the game, you are just leasing it to your account. With piracy you have no strings attached, you have the code, no DRM, no killswitch, nothing. It is sad, but Pirates have far more options than legit customers and far more options with what they can do with the game.

I just need to figure out if I want a laptop for portability or a desktop for raw power...

My question is if they do indeed break BC with PS3 games how does that affect all the games we've bought on PSN? I just can't see them doing that; the buy-in for the PS3 is too high compared to the PS2. You talk about a lot of pissed off people, tell me I can't play all those games I bought from Sony on PSN on the PS4. It's enough to make me say no thanks.

Ditto for backward compatible with all ps3 games

When I first got back into PC gaming, there was a number of things I really hated about it:

1. Couldn't rent games.

2. Couldn't really buy used games, for the most part

3. Can't sell PC games that I no longer play

4. Can't let friends or family borrow my games to check them out


The thing is, I got over all of that stuff, because of the whole 5 dollar game thing. The ONLY time I ever buy a game for PC, is when it's 5 bucks or less. I simply will not spend more than $5 for a PC game. To me, I don't own the game, so why pay a bunch for it? It's more like a long term rental, or a lease, under certain conditions and restrictions. It's not true ownership, like somebody owns a Call of Duty disk for Xbox 360.

I'm ok with all that, because I feel like 5 bucks is a decent price for a long-term rental, or a lease of a game. I don't mind it. The value proposition is there for me. Still, I can't buy PC games with great regularity. I have to sit back and just keep waiting around for the sales. They do come, but sometimes a month or two goes by without anything I'm interested in dropping down to that magical 5 dollar price. Steam has their deals, Amazon PC downloads has their deals and sometimes GamersGate has their deals. You just gotta be patient. I'm so far behind on my backlog list, that I don't feel the need to run out and buy the latest game, so I'm perfectly happy waiting for those 75 percent off sales.


The truly unfortunate thing about all of this, is the fact that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are never going to sell their AAA tentpole releases for only 5 bucks. I got Bulletstorm recently for 5 bucks. I got Crysis 2 recently for 5 bucks (after a $5 Amazon coupon I got for buying another PC game). I got Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit for 5 bucks. I got Dead Space 2 and Mass Effect 2 for 5 bucks. Do you honestly think I can go on PSN or Xbox Live Arcade and find the downloadable versions of those games for 5 bucks? Hell no. That ish ain't gonna happen. Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft will never sell the BIG games for that cheap. The cheapest you'll ever see something like that is when Sony had Infamous (the first one), for $9.99. That's about as cheap as things get with a company like Sony. They aren't going to sell games like that for $5.

Why? Two Reasons.


1. They feel like if they price AAA tentpole releases that low, even ones that are a year or more old, it just kinda undermines the whole $59.99 thing. You can make the argument that the game is a year old, or maybe 18 months old or whatever, but I think the general masses would start to consider waiting on games more.

2. They feel like they can get away with charging more, and they don't really think the bottom feeders mean that much to their bottom line. Sure, they could do Steam-like sales, and be able to sell a bunch of games, but in the long run, the customers that really go for that kind of thing, are the same customers that just aren't really contributing that much to the entire Sony ecosystem. They are more like the leeches that Sony has to deal with. They figure it's a part of doing business, to have to deal with the bottom feeders that only buy stuff on extreme discount. If they keep the prices high, yeah they loose out on these bottom feeders, but they maintain that high price for their higher income customers that really drive their profits.

I think the ps4 or new xbox could bomb big time if they put a stop to used games or digital download only. The games are ridiculously overpriced and don't get alot cheaper ,if this happens more people will go toward pc games as they can be bought dirt cheap unlike console games.

Not if Sony and MS both do it. What else are you gonna do? Play Wii?

Anyway, I'm glad it will be 2013 instead of 2014. I'm not as concerned about BC, as I expect to be more interested in playing the new games. Perhaps it would be nice if a PSN game like Zen Pinball still worked, as I've bought most of the tables. But if they came out with a new version with better graphics, 3D support, etc. I'd end up playing that one over the old version anyway.

yes I'll play pc games.. that's one reason I bought a console so I can play used games and backwards compatibility and pc games are cheap and they have better graphics anyway, so I'll probably return to pc gaming soon. The new systems will most likely be very expensive. I can build a good gaming computer for $400 to $500.

Uh Yeah. The Wii U is pretty Amazing and my PC will run circles around the PS4/Next Xbox. To Hell with both Sony & MSFT if they decide to try and stop Used Games, Renting Games and No BC. When Nintendo wins Next Gen with a Console for the Hardcore gamers, Dev's will come a running & Nintendo will get Great 3rd party support. Don't judge the Wii U based on the Wii of this Gen.

Things change. SEGA and Atari used to be console market leaders. Sony used to in the Americas.

Alienate your customers and anything is possible.

If locking out used games happens, it will all come down to things like pricing, DRM, transferability, and general consumer friendliness. If games are too restrictive or don't come down in (buy-in) price, it'll be the death of the high-end console industry. One would hope that Sony and MS are well aware of that, and adjust their business models accordingly. Music through iTunes works because it's cheap, easy to download, and easy to transfer.

Based on what? Almost nothing about looks amazing. A touch screen?

I seem to remember 360 & PS3 fans saying "Motion Controls are Garbage" and then guess what happened their console of choice adopted "Motion Controls".

Now you will hear "Touch Screens are garbage" and guess what, Sony & MSFT will eventually adopt Touchscreens when Nintendo is smoking them again

Watch the Zelda Wii U Demo and it is pretty Amazing. What the Hell do the PS4 & Xbox 720 have that's so Amazing. I guess time will tell. Nintendo will win Next Gen AGAIN.

Touch screen. Wii U can only do 1....

It's too bad. I feel as if this console generation, especially the PS3, has a ton of gas left in GRAPHICS. For the PS3, NaughtyDog had to singlehandedly carry the system by showcasing what it can do, so far. Everyone else has been developing for the XBOX360 and porting them to the PS3. Seems as if the PS3 got screwed this gen. I feel there's alot we stil need to know about the " CELL - PROCESSOR. " and see from it. But we might not if NaughtlyDog alone has to carry all the burden. To me, this generation has barely gotten started. Momentum is finally picking up and then, poof, here comes the next, next gen. This is bad. THERE'S STILL WAY TOO MUCH GAS LEFT IN THE CURRENT CONSOLES...!!!! They're just getting started.


Please, let the next gen consoles have no more load times. Please. Let me state this again, make a next gen console FREE OF LOAD TIMES...!!!! NO MORE LOAD SCREENS...SONY / MICROSOFT.

That's what brought me here. I just want to say to the console makers, please -- No more load times. And if possible, no more heat. Make it run cooler, huh?

The "rumors" are going mainstream. CNET posted a poll last Friday regarding whether people would get a PS4 that doesn't allow used content and isn't BC: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...4/?tag=nl.e222

Over 72% currently say "No."

For me the bigger issue is no BC. I buy all my games and now have over 75 (both on disc and digital) with more on the way. Without BC, I can continue to enjoy the titles I have, the dozens I've missed, and the many more to come in the next year or so while I wait for a significant price drop on the PS4 console and launch titles.

I don't see what their beef is with used games. All of those games were bought brand new at some point so they have already gotten the money made off its original (probably full) price. They should have no say about what people do with that game once purchased, unless copying it. It's the same as buying a car and, then, down the line, sell it (because it's not what you thought or it's having problems), and the car mfr saying I can't. I didnt sign a lifetime contract when I bought that car. I just happen to buy a lemon and then I can't sell it? I'm stuck with putting time into this car which I don't even want now b/c it's a POS? Funk dat!

If they stop the sell of used games, then they should reduce the price of DLC or make it free. That is one way they make up money for used games now.

I'm gonna disagree with you on the gas in the tank part. These consoles are old and while the actual hardware can probably eek out a few more tricks the small memory foot print and lack of real AA means it won't look good anyway. I like my PS3, I really do, but it's time to change. The load screens are a bit annoying, sure, but eh there's ways around that. The technical limitations though you can't get around and we need new hardware. Frankly though I'd be happy with a mild bump in specs if it means an actual decent amount of RAM this time and proper AA. These two things I believe would make a big difference to the games we play today.

Yes they should do this

They do this now. You get the code in the new game and have to buy it if not.

I disagree with you. XBOX360 became the lead console this generation. Barely now do we start to see games like " THE LAST OF US " from NaughtyDog or Uncharted 2-3. And then, boom. Announcements of PS4 and XBOX720 arriving next year are surfacing.

From what I can see, those are just TWO or maybe THREE games that meet the minimum standards of technologically satisfying graphics I've come to expect from the PS3. From the launch years until now, we've received just those few games from NaughtyDog that meet my minimum graphical standards for this generation. AND YOU STAND THERE AND TELL ME THAT THERE'S NO MORE GAS LEFT? WE'VE JUST BARELY GOT TO " THE LAST OF US " IN 2012. WE'RE JUST GETTING STARTED. When we get four to five years of games with Uncharted 2 and The Last of Us graphics from the PS3, then I believe the PS3 can retire.


To reiterate and make this clearer, even if " The Last of Us " and " Uncharted " are the technological limits of the PS3, which I doubt. We're just getting started because, this is the first time we've seen such powerhouse graphics on a console this generation. ONE GAME out of all the games that have been released since the launch of the xbox360 and ps3. If it weren't for the xbox360 being the lead console, EVERY GAME SHOULD LOOK AS GOOD AS " THE LAST OF US" And that is what my argument is. Had every developer competed against each other developing for the PS3, every game should look as good as Uncharted 2 or the Last of US. And when you have at least FOUR YEARS of games looking that good -- AT THE MINIMUM, THEN, I WOULD AGREE THAT WE'VE MAXED OUT THE CONSOLES AT THE MINIMUM and put it through it's strides. But when 99% of all games released don't meet that minimum, the horse has barely ran one lap around the racetrack before calling it quits. It should've at least ran 10 laps around the race track first.

No one will really know for sure how far the PS3 can go because it's over. PS4 and XBOX720 are rumored to arrivenext year. That's like tomorrow to me. And everyone has been developing for the xbox360 architecture and then badly porting them over to the PS3 almost identically in graphics. Either way, what I believe should've distinguished the PS3 this generation is not RAM Textures or AA. I wanted to see the PS3 distinguish itself through the CELL PROCESSOR and PHYSICS.But who's going to spend time making games for the PS3 when everyone loves the xbox360 and the PS4 is coming out?

And I'm talking about the disntinguishing features of the untapped CELL PROCESSOR. I want to see all it can do. I could care less about AA and textures. I'm happy with them as is this generation. I'm concerened about seeing the PHYSICS -- look at the snow effects and rain effects on Unchareted and even Resistance 1 compared to the snow effects on XBXO360 games like BATMAN ARKHAM. i can tell right off the bat whether a game is a XBOX360 lead game or a PS3 game based on the snow effects alone.

So, in conclusion, considering that games like " THE LAST OF US" has barely started coming out for the PS3 now in 2012, then I disagree that the PS3 has run out of gas. When we get four to five years of games with the minimum graphics set by the standards of " The Last of Us " or Uncharted 2 and 3, then I will consider that the PS3 horse has gotten enough laps around the racetrack. But considering that the " last of us" has barely arrived and that we've been receiving nothing but XBOX360 ports, and then you're bringing in a new race horse, I'd say that we're just getting started. The new horse came in prematurely.

You're completely ignoring how expensive it is to 1) tailor development to one console--especially when it's got a lower consumer penetration, and 2) develop for a non-standard architecture.

It's not as though developers don't want to make graphically impressive games. They just can't afford it or risk it. Moving to a new piece of hardware means it would be easier and cheaper to make better looking games for more than just well-funded first-party studios like Naughty Dog. And of course, those first-party studios will still have a leg up on third parties (for many reasons), but the base level will have moved up for everyone.