or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Gaming & Content Streaming › Home Theater Gaming › PlayStation Area › PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post) - Page 21

post #601 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

I already told you what i label as obvious conjecture, and brakel already told you his reason. Why are you asking us to repeat ourselves? Or are you just not paying attention?
I am not asking you repeat yourself. Or are you not paying attention? I am asking you to go into specifics about what parts you disagree with. If you can't do that then you have nothing to offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

Prove it. If you can't then you're guessing, hence the term "conjecture".
Yes, I read your paragraph about the PS3 being capable of displaying a 4k still image. Means absolutely nothing.

On the contrary, it means everything. Unless you are suggesting that PS4 will be equally powerful as PS3, or less so, then it is absolutely guaranteed that it will be capable of driving a 4k dispay with native 4k signal.

The proof will come when it is launched, which is why I want you guys to go on record and tell me specifically what you disagree with. So can I take it that you are specifically stating it will not output a native 4k signal?
post #602 of 1994
Elario's right. It will be capable of outputting native 4K. You see receiver's from Onkyo that can already output a 4K signal upscaled from 1080P, do you really think a processing powerhouse like the PS4 won't be able to do that? Just like 1080P gaming, it will be a selling point, but irrelevant. Let's face it, most people have no idea that COD is at less than 720p, they think it's HD. It will be capable of outputting games at 4K, but the reality is that none of the serious games will actually be at 4K, instead most of the games should finally be playable at 1080p/60. None of the publishers are going to waste the resources to develop games at 4K for all of the 4 people that will have a 4K display in the next 4 years. It will provide upscaling to 4K for Blu-rays, just like new receivers and BD players too. To assume they won't go after the low-hanging fruit to have more feature boxes to check off is just silly. They have the processing power, and features sell hardware, even if people never use them, it's just the way things are. Sony is already offering Blu-ray players with 4k upscaling, and from a June 6th Sony announcement:

Molyneux said he could not yet reveal Sony's plans for bringing native 4K content to consumers or say what method of delivery (optical disc, streaming video, multichannel video distribution) would likely be employed.

But, he added, "I don't think we are looking at a very lengthy horizon" before such announcements are made.

"Sony is leading the 4K revolution. We are pushing it forward," Molyneux said. "We are committed to that direction, and that is part of the reason we are educating the industry around content capturing, management and playback."


It won't be a feature that will matter to me, but to think that the PS4 won't do 4K is illogical and amounts to less than conjecture.
post #603 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post

I know that 4K games are not possible on next gen consoles at a reasonable price point... but what about 4K video playback?
There are shipping products that are capable of 4K output at up to 30 fps over HDMI (such as the AMD Radeon HD 7900/7800/7700 series). As such I think it is very likely that the PS4 will be capable of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post

I'm not sure, but let's say a compressed 4K movie requires a 100 GB disc.
The HEVC video codec will be finished in January of 2013. Here is a link to a short YouTube video on HEVC that was made by Motorola. If/when a 4K version of Blu-ray is released I think it could go either way when it comes to whether it will support Blu-ray discs larger than 50 GB.
Edited by Richard Paul - 6/16/12 at 3:46pm
post #604 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

There are shipping products that are capable of 4K output at up to 30 fps over HDMI (such as the AMD Radeon HD 7900/7800/7700 series). As such I think it is very likely that the PS4 will be capable of it.
The HEVC video codec will be finished in January of 2013. Here is a link to a short YouTube video on HEVC that was made by Motorola. If/when a 4K version of Blu-ray is released I think it could go either when it comes to whether it will support Blu-ray discs larger than 50 GB.

Yeah, I haven't kept up with this stuff since BD won (wasn't even aware of HEVC). Since I had to swap discs for LoTR Extended, I just assumed 50 gigs wouldn't be enough.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/blu-ray-disc/sony-s-marty-bda-s-parsons-talk-blu-ray-27515

Here's a good article on the future of BD.
post #605 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by elario View Post

I am not asking you repeat yourself. Or are you not paying attention? I am asking you to go into specifics about what parts you disagree with. If you can't do that then you have nothing to offer.
On the contrary, it means everything. Unless you are suggesting that PS4 will be equally powerful as PS3, or less so, then it is absolutely guaranteed that it will be capable of driving a 4k dispay with native 4k signal.
The proof will come when it is launched, which is why I want you guys to go on record and tell me specifically what you disagree with. So can I take it that you are specifically stating it will not output a native 4k signal?

All I'm saying is that you're guessing, hoping, and betting that these features will be in the PS4. Keep the post for posterity in case it all comes to pass, but nobody knows what will be included with the new machine. Talking about it like it already happened is silly.

I remember when the PS3 was going to have 2 HDMI ports so you could dual-screen GT5 when it came out. I even saw a video demo of the thing. Glad I deleted all my posts about that one wink.gif
post #606 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post

Yeah, I haven't kept up with this stuff since BD won (wasn't even aware of HEVC). Since I had to swap discs for LoTR Extended, I just assumed 50 gigs wouldn't be enough.
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/blu-ray-disc/sony-s-marty-bda-s-parsons-talk-blu-ray-27515
Here's a good article on the future of BD.
From what Andy Parsons (spokesman for the BDA) said in that article he thinks that if a 4K version of Blu-ray is released it will stick with 25/50 GB Blu-ray discs. Only time will tell what will happen but it wouldn't surprise me if the BDA did that.
post #607 of 1994
I was looking around at budget PC parts and came across AMD APUs, a quick youtube search found several videos of games running above console levels (including MW3 running at 1600p on high settings (no aa or vsync) and maintaining 30fps+

If a $120 APU can do this, I have high hopes for next gen systems even if they use underpowered pc hardware.
post #608 of 1994
There are XBox 720 threads saying the 2 cpu unit (one power pc to be backwards compatible, one being an ARM) , bluray, and a kinect 2 (that can follow 4 people this time around) is going to sell for $299.

If that's the truth, PS4 has its hands full.
post #609 of 1994
That leaked microsoft document also states that Microsoft thought the PS4 would probably have full GoogleTV functionality built-in. Considering Sony just launched a stand-alone GoogleTV box, that does seem likely.
post #610 of 1994
GoogleTV is awful, though.
post #611 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

GoogleTV is awful, though.

Therefore, it could never possibly improve into a good product...by fall 2013...everything is static...now I'm just being a dick... but anyway, I haven't tried it, but there's no reason to think it doesn't have potential.
post #612 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

Therefore, it could never possibly improve into a good product...by fall 2013...everything is static...now I'm just being a dick... but anyway, I haven't tried it, but there's no reason to think it doesn't have potential.

Well, GoogleTV launched in 2010 and, quite frankly - calling it awful would've been nice. They re-released it late last year and it was pretty bad. Now I just think it is irrelevant. Logitech had to write-off $100 million because of unsold boxes.

I see no indication that GoogleTV has any clue how the TV market works or how to improve it. They just wanted another outlet to sell ads.

That's the thing with Google - you can tell, pretty quickly, that they either get it or they don't. What they did with maps and email was superb. Their plan with phones has done well. But all their social stuff has been a flop. Their shopping system went nowhere. Same with GoogleTV.
post #613 of 1994
True enough. But having more media options through a console isn't a bad thing. As long as it doesn't get in the way of other possible features, I see no issue.

Because this leaked document is a couple years old, it was right at the beginning of the console race for media deals. Netflix was just taking off on consoles, and over the next two years, we've seen more streaming options added. MS might have thought there'd be more of an "arms race," but it ended up being a pretty even match. Content providers--just like game publishers--can't afford to make exclusive deals. Everyone has to go multiplatform these days.
post #614 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by number1laing View Post

Well, GoogleTV launched in 2010 and, quite frankly - calling it awful would've been nice. They re-released it late last year and it was pretty bad. Now I just think it is irrelevant. Logitech had to write-off $100 million because of unsold boxes.
I see no indication that GoogleTV has any clue how the TV market works or how to improve it. They just wanted another outlet to sell ads.
That's the thing with Google - you can tell, pretty quickly, that they either get it or they don't. What they did with maps and email was superb. Their plan with phones has done well. But all their social stuff has been a flop. Their shopping system went nowhere. Same with GoogleTV.

Yeah, but now Sony's involved, so how could it possibly fail? cool.gif

I'm not saying it will be good, just that it does seem to be a likely feature for inclusion.
post #615 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

There are XBox 720 threads saying the 2 cpu unit (one power pc to be backwards compatible, one being an ARM) , bluray, and a kinect 2 (that can follow 4 people this time around) is going to sell for $299.
If that's the truth, PS4 has its hands full.
The Xbox 720 document that was on Scribd.com (before it was taken down due to a request from Microsoft's law firm) stated that the system power would be 120 watts. Though that document was made back in 2010 if Microsoft has decided to aim for a moderate game console with the next Xbox than Sony could easily have the more graphically powerful game console if they wanted to. There aren't many rumor sites I trust but SemiAccurate is one of them and here is a link to an article they did several months ago on the PS4. Based on the current rumors it looks like the PS4 will be more graphically powerful than the next Xbox.
post #616 of 1994
Looking up PC parts I stumbled onto AMD's 2012 APU line, the a10 5800k caught my eye. A quad core 3.8ghz cpu and a 800mhz 6900 gpu (with a few tricks from the 7000 line thrown in) and it only uses 100w of power. Based on the current top apu pricing ($120) that is a lot of power for a low price. If the rumors of Sony using AMD for the PS4 a custom apu based on this design is a very real possibility, and it would be very powerful and very energy efficient, and very cheap, an all around win for Sony. A PS4 built around this apu could easily sell at $300 for a profit.
post #617 of 1994
That pretty much implies no PS3 backwards compatibility... unless they throw a Cell chip on there.
post #618 of 1994
Not just Cell, Cell + RSX. Cell is a dead-end tech and Sony has changed directions, so the next CPU won't be Cell-based. And RSX is a POS and I am sure Sony doesn't want to do business with Nvidia anymore.

I wonder if this has anything to do with that patent that came out a few months ago about BC through an add-on board. Maybe Sony plans to sell a PS3 compatibility add-on board?
post #619 of 1994
Maybe it'll be like the Atari 2600 compatibility plug-in for the Colecovision. It cost more than a 2600.
post #620 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

That pretty much implies no PS3 backwards compatibility... unless they throw a Cell chip on there.

Depends. They might be able to run it in emulation cross the X86 cores.

Sonys insistence on weird memory allocation is more of an issue then the cell processor, which is basically just a different kind of multicore processor. A lot of the new lineups from Intel and AMD look awfully like cell architecture, only being much easier to program with because of choices made.
post #621 of 1994
I don't think they could run PS3 emulation without major issues. Just like Xbox 1 emulation this gen and the limited software-based PS2 emulation this gen.
post #622 of 1994
Just depends on how much effort they want to put into developing the emulation.
post #623 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Depends. They might be able to run it in emulation cross the X86 cores.
Sonys insistence on weird memory allocation is more of an issue then the cell processor, which is basically just a different kind of multicore processor. A lot of the new lineups from Intel and AMD look awfully like cell architecture, only being much easier to program with because of choices made.

They used split memory, the same model every PC with a discrete GPU has ever used. How is it weird?
post #624 of 1994
A PS3 attachment that plugs into the back of the system (like the old N64 Power Supply did) would be smart way to provide PS3 backwards compatability for those that want it. Price it at $130 at launch and with the PS4 at $300 in 2013 and drop the PS3 to $200 a few months before launch. Keep Move separate to keep costs down and push it as a hardcore gaming system first.

With a custom APU overclocked from the base specs of the one I posted, 4gb of System RAM (The APU GPU should have 1gb of Ram as well) a 12x Blu-ray drive, a 500gb HDD, the option to add a full GPU to work with the APU. This would be a fantastic option for Sony to go with for a profitable launch and future expansion (a firmware update to allow for faster clock speeds) This thing would blow the PS3 out of the water, with lower power consumption. I'll be surprised if Sony doesn't go this route.
post #625 of 1994
Hopefully I'm right in saying that it's a priority for Sony to have good backwards compatibility because they'd be crazy to not think of something unless they want the PS4 to get a lot of the bad publicity that both the PS3 and PS Vita got. Yes, an attachment, although it'll come with some bad publicity, if it's compatible with every game the PS3 is compatible with than then might not be a bad idea although obviously the best idea would be to combine it all in one system but theirs a price factor and that's another important thing. As for the price of the PS3, I think if possible, they'll have to drop it to $200 during the launch of the Wii U.
post #626 of 1994
Yeah, the PS3 will probably hit $200 this year with a further price drop for the ps4 launch. That would also make the PS3 add on even cheaper. By offering it seperate there will be some backlash, but it would prevent a PS2 style backlash down the road. Maybe offer a $400 version at launch with it included along with a bigger HDD to further sell it.
post #627 of 1994
PS4 will have BC in some form. It needs to - people expect to keep playing their old games, and use their old content, in a way that they just didn't before. Before it was a nice feature, now it's essential IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

This thing would blow the PS3 out of the water, with lower power consumption.

I just got one of those Alienware X51 computers - a setup that looks like a console and is about as big as an Xbox 1. At max it uses about 230 watts of power. My old launch PS3, at max, uses 200 watts. Of course the PC is like 10x more powerful than the PS3. It's amazing how this works.
post #628 of 1994
I thought the launch PS3s had a 300w PSU? The current Slims are in the 200w range (they may be lower by now)

The current hardware race is for smaller more efficient chips, drastic power increases have been an afterthought for several years now...
post #629 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

A PS3 attachment that plugs into the back of the system (like the old N64 Power Supply did) would be smart way to provide PS3 backwards compatability for those that want it. Price it at $130 at launch and with the PS4 at $300 in 2013 and drop the PS3 to $200 a few months before launch. Keep Move separate to keep costs down and push it as a hardcore gaming system first.
With a custom APU overclocked from the base specs of the one I posted, 4gb of System RAM (The APU GPU should have 1gb of Ram as well) a 12x Blu-ray drive, a 500gb HDD, the option to add a full GPU to work with the APU. This would be a fantastic option for Sony to go with for a profitable launch and future expansion (a firmware update to allow for faster clock speeds) This thing would blow the PS3 out of the water, with lower power consumption. I'll be surprised if Sony doesn't go this route.

Add-ons never work out. I could see them offering a model that did have BC, and one without, at different price points, but even then, if it costs more to get the one with BC, a lot of folks would just keep using their PS3 instead... Might be possible, but I think different SKUs rather than an add-on. It definitely couldn't offer any additional speed or processing power for PS4 games, because that would automatically fracture the market.

I do think there's an expectation that games bought on PSN should still be available. It seems like there's an unspoken assumption that items bought digitally should be available forever, since you don't get to keep them physically forever if you choose. This whole area gets messy though since they have full PS3 games available for downloadable purchase now. Perhaps they will be able to emulate. Compared to the original PS3 processing power, there should be enough speed to add that extra layer of processing without introducing lag. It's a tricky situation though, and one that could affect the whole model of digital distribution as a whole if people lose confidence in their ability to continually have access to their digital purchases. Imagine not being able to access your Kindle books if Amazon came out with a fantastic new holographic Kindle that didn't have BC? Or if Amazon went out of business? There's actually no guarantee that you will have access in perpetuity to your digital books, as you would for a physical book, but people purchase them with that assumption.
post #630 of 1994
Thread Starter 
Regarding the 4K talk, it really won't be a big whoop for Sony to include it and it has been mentioned in several different rumors over the last year or so. It isn't as if it would add any significant cost to the machine.

But as far as its purpose goes in the PS4, it will naturally synch up with the future wave of 4K HDTVs that are coming as well as higher rez Blu-ray movies (like 1080P in 3D. So, there are some benefits that are not obvious. I posted earlier in this thread how 4K allows for the ability to zoom in on hi-res textures without distortion in some applications, and that it allows for 1080P in 3D gaming.

I don't believe I've seen anyone suggesting 4K resolution games are on the way; 720P/1080P will be the target resolution of PS4 titles.
Edited by joeblow - 6/20/12 at 9:04am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PlayStation Area
AVS › AVS Forum › Gaming & Content Streaming › Home Theater Gaming › PlayStation Area › PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post)