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PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post) - Page 23

post #661 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Also, by this logic, we would have seen a new Xbox years ago because it's been selling for $199 since 2009.
Quote:

I did say $199 or less . If were talking about the Xbox 360, that system should have been $149.99 years ago. The PS3 can double as the families blu ray player, the 360 cannot. The standard PS3 comes with over 100 gigs of hard drive space, the entry level 360 comes with what... 4 gigs ?
post #662 of 1994
I wasn't out to compare the systems. I was taking issue with your claim that $199 is a magical "tipping point" that signals the advent of the next generation. So I pointed out that the 360 has been at that price point for a while (3 years).

Regardless, this generation is so screwy in so many ways that we can't rely on past behavior to predict future outcomes. The cost to make consoles (and games) is still way out of proportion with what the market can sustain. Publishers and consumers want new consoles, but manufacturers definitely do not. They'll hold off on releasing/announcing new consoles for as long as they possibly can. But neither manufacturer can afford to let the other get a substantial launch-date lead.

It's a very expensive game of chicken. 2013 is sure to be an interesting year for the gaming industry. Ouya could shake things up. Or not. The next gen could launch. Or not. The Wii U could take off. Or not. Lots of changes on the horizon. Or not. wink.gif
post #663 of 1994
I wonder how much the PS2 was selling for brand new, for Xmas 2005, one year before the arrival of the PS3? What about the 360... How much was the original Xbox selling for in Xmas 2004 ? I would guess that both were $149.99 or less. I know the Xbox only got as low as $149.99, and didn't get any lower, because Microsoft was still taking a small loss when they sold it for $149.99, so they didn't bother going any lower.

Still, it just seems kinda weird that the Xbox 360 and PS3 are priced so high, after they have been on the market for such a long time. I'd imagine that there is a bunch of different factors at play here. Part of it has to be that Sony and Microsoft aren't as interested in selling below cost as they have been in the past. Microsoft probably feels they don't need to, and Sony is probably unable to deal with the financial burden of doing that. So, they are both content to leave their prices high. Also, I'm guessing neither of them see the Nintendo Wii U as a huge threat.

Another thing to consider is that Sony and Microsoft might both come in with another expensive console. $399 or more. If they price their next-gen consoles that high, then a $199 PS3 and a $149.99 Xbox 360 can easily co-exist with them, because the pricepoints would be spaced apart far enough.
post #664 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

I would guess that both were $149.99 or less.
You are correct. The other way of looking at it is that each prior system cost half its initial launch price within 3-4 years.

Currently, after 7 years on the market, the 360 still hasn't dropped that far (from $300-400 down to $200-300). But the PS3 did so within 4-5 years on the market (from $500-600 down to $250-300).

What does this mean for a next gen launch? Not a lot. It means 360 and PS3 cost about the same as one another and that both continue to sell just fine at their respective prices.
post #665 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

It means 360 and PS3 cost about the same as one another and that both continue to sell just fine at their respective prices.


the 360 sold 270,000 units in September, which isn't that great if you ask me. I don't know how many Sony sold, but I'm sure it was lame too. I honestly don't understand why they aren't trying lower prices. It would be one thing if they were selling 350K per month, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
post #666 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

the 360 sold 270,000 units in September, which isn't that great if you ask me. I don't know how many Sony sold, but I'm sure it was lame too. I honestly don't understand why they aren't trying lower prices. It would be one thing if they were selling 350K per month, but that doesn't appear to be the case.
They're heading into the holidays with consistent (though flat) sales. From their perspective, that's a good thing. We should expect price drops in early 2013.
post #667 of 1994
Thread Starter 
Shipped development kits are increasingly coming closer to the final PS4 specs, with the final version of the kits estimated to be out next summer according to the latest rumors.

Also mentioned is that the PS4 will be "affordable", RAM will be between 8 GB and 16 GB, and it will be able to handle 1080P titles in 3D at up to 60 fps, which addresses the need for 4K resolution that some people have been whining and gnashing their teeth about; it would be impossible without that rez. Here are the details:

Quote:
Developers are currently taking receipt of a new PlayStation 4 dev kit, VG247 has been told today, with a final version slated to appear in January. Yes, it’ll have Blu-ray. No, it isn’t being made in Japan.

Multiple sources have confirmed to VG247 today that a new version of the Orbis kit is now shipping to developers, and that it’s housed in a normal PC case.

There are to be four versions of the dev kit, we were told. A previous version was essentially just a graphics card. The version shipping now is a “modified PC,” and the third version, appearing in January, will be close to final spec. A final version will be delivered to developers “next summer”.

Some US developers attended a “disclosure meeting” at Sony’s offices this week, with a further meeting to take place in the coming weeks. The purpose of the meeting is for Sony to tell studios what the machine is designed to do, to detail hardware and to show a set of presentations.

Our source told us that Sony is only calling the machine Orbis, and is not using the words “PlayStation 4″ in these meetings at all.

Orbis, we were told today, is based on the AMD’s A10 APU series. An APU (Accelerated Processing Unit) is a combined CPU and GPU.

PS4′s APU was described today as a “derivative” of existing A10 hardware. The hardware is “based on A10 system and base platform”.

The “ultimate goal” for the hardware, we were told, is for it to be able to run 1080p60 games in 3D with “no problem,” to create a machine that’s powerful enough for “today and tomorrow’s market”.

The dev kits have “either 8Gb or 16Gb of RAM. Deduce from that what you will.”

The hardware is not being made in Japan, it was said.

When asked if PS4 will have an optical drive, specifically Blu-ray, our source responded: “Of course it has.” We’ve been told the hard drive will be 256Gb “as standard,” but it’s not clear if it’ll be a normal HDD or a solid state drive.

We were told that Sony’s aim with Orbis is to avoid problems involved in launching PS3 by creating something “very affordable” but that “isn’t a slouch”.

The machine has WiFi and Ethernet connectivity and HDMI out. Our source said the was “no difference” between PlayStation 3 and Orbis input/output.

The UI, however, has been revamped. It was said today that players will now be able to press the PS button mid-game and travel “anywhere” on the system. An example given was buying DLC from the PS Store mid-game then seamlessly returning to play.

“They’re trying to make it as fluid as possible,” our source said.

We were also told that the machine will be designed to accept system and product updates in the background, and that it’ll “always be standby mode”. When you set the console up, we were told, you’ll be asked if you want to allow background downloads. You can, of course, disallow them.

No details have been given on the pad as yet. Confirmation is expected this month.

Orbis is expected to be announced at an event “just before E3″ next year.

Edited by joeblow - 11/1/12 at 11:51am
post #668 of 1994
I like that they will allow background downloads. That is one thing that bugged me about the PS3. On my 360, I could set stuff to download and turn it off and it would download and night and shut itself off when it was done, but it wouldn't do that on the PS3. Plus, give us a redesigned controller and I will most likely jump in on the next generation.
post #669 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I like that they will allow background downloads. That is one thing that bugged me about the PS3. On my 360, I could set stuff to download and turn it off and it would download and night and shut itself off when it was done, but it wouldn't do that on the PS3. Plus, give us a redesigned controller and I will most likely jump in on the next generation.

PS3 has always done that, but you have to choose turn off system from the XMB. Then you'll have a checkbox for turn off after downloads are complete.
post #670 of 1994
That's news to me.
post #671 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Shipped development kits are increasingly coming closer to the final PS4 specs, with the final version of the kits estimated to be out next summer according to the latest rumors.

Also mentioned is that the PS4 will be "affordable", RAM will be between 8 GB and 16 GB, and it will be able to handle 1080P titles in 3D at up to 60 fps, which addresses the need for 4K resolution that some people have been whining and gnashing their teeth about; it would be impossible without that rez. Here are the details:

Quote:
Developers are currently taking receipt of a new PlayStation 4 dev kit, VG247 has been told today, with a final version slated to appear in January. Yes, it’ll have Blu-ray. No, it isn’t being made in Japan.

Multiple sources have confirmed to VG247 today that a new version of the Orbis kit is now shipping to developers, and that it’s housed in a normal PC case.

There are to be four versions of the dev kit, we were told. A previous version was essentially just a graphics card. The version shipping now is a “modified PC,” and the third version, appearing in January, will be close to final spec. A final version will be delivered to developers “next summer”.

Some US developers attended a “disclosure meeting” at Sony’s offices this week, with a further meeting to take place in the coming weeks. The purpose of the meeting is for Sony to tell studios what the machine is designed to do, to detail hardware and to show a set of presentations.

Our source told us that Sony is only calling the machine Orbis, and is not using the words “PlayStation 4″ in these meetings at all.

Orbis, we were told today, is based on the AMD’s A10 APU series. An APU (Accelerated Processing Unit) is a combined CPU and GPU.

PS4′s APU was described today as a “derivative” of existing A10 hardware. The hardware is “based on A10 system and base platform”.

The “ultimate goal” for the hardware, we were told, is for it to be able to run 1080p60 games in 3D with “no problem,” to create a machine that’s powerful enough for “today and tomorrow’s market”.

The dev kits have “either 8Gb or 16Gb of RAM. Deduce from that what you will.”

The hardware is not being made in Japan, it was said.

When asked if PS4 will have an optical drive, specifically Blu-ray, our source responded: “Of course it has.” We’ve been told the hard drive will be 256Gb “as standard,” but it’s not clear if it’ll be a normal HDD or a solid state drive.

We were told that Sony’s aim with Orbis is to avoid problems involved in launching PS3 by creating something “very affordable” but that “isn’t a slouch”.

The machine has WiFi and Ethernet connectivity and HDMI out. Our source said the was “no difference” between PlayStation 3 and Orbis input/output.

The UI, however, has been revamped. It was said today that players will now be able to press the PS button mid-game and travel “anywhere” on the system. An example given was buying DLC from the PS Store mid-game then seamlessly returning to play.

“They’re trying to make it as fluid as possible,” our source said.

We were also told that the machine will be designed to accept system and product updates in the background, and that it’ll “always be standby mode”. When you set the console up, we were told, you’ll be asked if you want to allow background downloads. You can, of course, disallow them.

No details have been given on the pad as yet. Confirmation is expected this month.

Orbis is expected to be announced at an event “just before E3″ next year.

Sounds like a true next gen system to me. I know some dev kits have more ram than the final box, so 16gb dev kits and 8gb final spec sounds right to me. Typical jump after 5 years is 8x, after 7, 16x (512mb to 8gb) isn't unreasonable at all.
post #672 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I like that they will allow background downloads. That is one thing that bugged me about the PS3. On my 360, I could set stuff to download and turn it off and it would download and night and shut itself off when it was done, but it wouldn't do that on the PS3. Plus, give us a redesigned controller and I will most likely jump in on the next generation.

My PS3 has been doing that exact thing for years. You might need to buy the newer model though wink.gif

Dev kits with 8-16GB of RAM probably means nothing when used to deduce specs on a console. I would take a PS4 with 8GB of RAM but we'll be lucky if they build it with 4GB. The combined CPU/GPU chip has been a rumor forever so it looks like that's gonna pan out. The description of how the UI functions is along the lines of what I hoped- whatever the operation it should be smooth and seamless. PS4 needs to be really slick.
post #673 of 1994
Thread Starter 
Nah, you don't need a new PS3 to download in the background. I was doing it on my launch PS3 until I traded it in a few weeks ago. It completes downloads, installs and turns off the system if you set it up, and with PS+ it will even automatically download/install patches and new free content as well.
post #674 of 1994
"wink wink, nudge nudge"
post #675 of 1994
So, I am hoping for 4 gigs of system memory as well as 2 gigs dedicated to the Graphics chip. It all depends on what kind of GPU they throw in there. This combined stuff is for bargain PC's. It needs a dedicated video card.
post #676 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaidonjin View Post

This combined stuff is for bargain PC's. It needs a dedicated video card.
Keep in mind this part of the rumor:
Quote:
We were told that Sony’s aim with Orbis is to avoid problems involved in launching PS3 by creating something “very affordable” but that “isn’t a slouch”.
They have to cut corners wherever they can. Sony has made two major pricing mistakes with its past two launches for new hardware platforms. Doing it a third time would be disastrous. Though Sony's sense of what is "very affordable" is a bit screwy, so who knows.
post #677 of 1994
Whoops, you guys will have to excuse me for being an idiot and not knowing that. I still hope for a redesign of the controller. And I wish they would just announce it already, I want to know if it is coming next year. My old PS3 crapped out on me, and I haven't bought a new one because I don't want to waste $250 on a system if a new one is coming out next year, but I need a blu-ray player and might just have to break down and buy a PS3 anyways.
post #678 of 1994
Thread Starter 
GameStop will almost assuredly have a PS3 trade in program for a PS4, even if not at launch. Last month they gave me $170 for a launch PS3 to get one of the new Super Slims (special promotion), so you can figure to get over $100 towards a trade-in for a PS4 with a newer PS3.

As for the next-gen controller, I've said since the PS2 days hat the only change I want to see is to replace the right analog stick with a thumb track ball for more accuracy with shooters. The L2/R2 buttons could use a trigger grip, and the rest is just fine.
post #679 of 1994
Quote:
The machine has WiFi and Ethernet connectivity and HDMI out. Our source said the was “no difference” between PlayStation 3 and Orbis input/output.

I hope this is not true on the release console. The WiFi needs to be upgraded to include N and 5GHz.
post #680 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

Whoops, you guys will have to excuse me for being an idiot and not knowing that. I still hope for a redesign of the controller. And I wish they would just announce it already, I want to know if it is coming next year. My old PS3 crapped out on me, and I haven't bought a new one because I don't want to waste $250 on a system if a new one is coming out next year, but I need a blu-ray player and might just have to break down and buy a PS3 anyways.

Not me, keep the controller the same!

If it ain't broke...
post #681 of 1994
copy the offset thumb sticks.
post #682 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaidonjin View Post

copy the offset thumb sticks.
That only makes sense on an FPS-heavy console. The symmetrical setup works much better for PS-style action and platforming games. The offset setup works much better for 360-style FPS games. Sony should stick to its strengths.
post #683 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

That only makes sense on an FPS-heavy console. The symmetrical setup works much better for PS-style action and platforming games. The offset setup works much better for 360-style FPS games. Sony should stick to its strengths.

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you on this. This is a pretty subjective situation. I've seen people make statements like yours and I'll disagree with them 100%. Something to keep in mind is how games are designed to make use of the controller. I could see myself enjoying Uncharted just fine with a 360 pad had it been made with the 360 in mind. I personally like the offset approach as my thumbs bump together sometimes on the DS. It's not that I feel the offset design is somehow inherently superior, just that the location of the sticks are too close together in their current configuration. In fact if they would have designed the controller to where the sticks are at the d-pad and face button point and lower those two to the current stick location I think the controller would be much better. Put true triggers on it too and who knows it could be a contender. As it is Sony needs to update the design in my opinion.
post #684 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwaidonjin View Post

copy the offset thumb sticks.

Please no.. My left hand is symmetrical with my right hand and want the sticks to be symmetrical as well just as they are with the PS3 pad. The PS3 is far better for gameplay on FPS's and any game that uses dual analog control. That is one of my biggest gripes with the 360 pad, that and the horrible d-pad being the worst thing about it.
Edited by freemeat - 11/4/12 at 11:10pm
post #685 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you on this. This is a pretty subjective situation. I've seen people make statements like yours and I'll disagree with them 100%. Something to keep in mind is how games are designed to make use of the controller. I could see myself enjoying Uncharted just fine with a 360 pad had it been made with the 360 in mind. I personally like the offset approach as my thumbs bump together sometimes on the DS. It's not that I feel the offset design is somehow inherently superior, just that the location of the sticks are too close together in their current configuration. In fact if they would have designed the controller to where the sticks are at the d-pad and face button point and lower those two to the current stick location I think the controller would be much better. Put true triggers on it too and who knows it could be a contender. As it is Sony needs to update the design in my opinion.
The reason people like me say the 360 is better suited to FPS games is because of the sticks. Those are its biggest asset. But everything other than the sticks on the 360 controller is junk. The buttons are terrible, the d-pad is terrible, and the shape is terrible. Pretty much the reverse applies to the DS3. The convex and symmetrical sticks are awful, but the buttons, d-pad, and shape are fantastic. Which is why it's more suited to action and platformer games (which need the precise d-pad and button inputs).

Each controller has its advantages. But I wouldn't want to see one controller overtake the role of the other. Hell, I still think the Gamecube controller is the best console controller we've had (if only it had one more shoulder button).
post #686 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

The reason people like me say the 360 is better suited to FPS games is because of the sticks. Those are its biggest asset. But everything other than the sticks on the 360 controller is junk. The buttons are terrible, the d-pad is terrible, and the shape is terrible. Pretty much the reverse applies to the DS3. The convex and symmetrical sticks are awful, but the buttons, d-pad, and shape are fantastic. Which is why it's more suited to action and platformer games (which need the precise d-pad and button inputs).
Each controller has its advantages. But I wouldn't want to see one controller overtake the role of the other. Hell, I still think the Gamecube controller is the best console controller we've had (if only it had one more shoulder button).

I do agree with you that from an overall build quality standpoint the DS3 is better than the 360 pad. I like the button sensitivity, the actual feel of the buttons, and the d-pad. All superior to what MS offers. I think the 360 has superior triggers but I don't like the top shoulder buttons. I think they're poorly designed. The actual feel and layout of the controller though, yeah I guess I just like it more. The sticks on the 360 pad are better. I've always felt the DS sticks are too mushy. Short too. I'd like a tiny bit taller design. A lot of that can be alleviated via some aftermarket stick grips. I use some and they've helped tremendously. Still, saying all this I just wish Sony would consider a redesign. Something tells me though any redesign we might get will be minimal at best. I agree also that I like variety in controller designs. That's why I don't necessarily want a 360 copy design. Keep the classic DS shape but modernize it a bit. Funny though I'm a bit like you in that I think a Nintendo controller is the best design ever. For me though, and yes this is a bit silly, but I prefer the N64 controller. Just something about it that I've always liked.
post #687 of 1994
Well, the real problem here is patent law. It's the bane of innovation. And it's what stands in the way of ideal controller design. Each of the Big Three manufacturers owns patents on various controller technologies and designs that the others can't incorporate. It's why the 360's d-pad sucks. It's why the DS3's sticks aren't as good as they could be. It's why the DS3 didn't even have rumble for, what, a year? It's also why most third-party controllers suck. And it's why no third party has stepped in to offer a better design.

Imagine an equivalent in standard controller design to what we get with the best arcade sticks. rolleyes.gif

I could rant all day on why technology patents are the enemies of innovation and genuine market competition.
post #688 of 1994
Sad thing is... if they do going to A10 APU, the dev have to dump all their knowledge on cell processing, but also a good news. The devs don't have to relearn any new things since APU is pretty much like a PC.
post #689 of 1994
Here's some good stuff. Some we have already discussed, some is new and different. This is from PSM3 Magazine (Germany). It's a Google translation from German so grain of salt with this one:
Quote:
Forecast: Details about PS4 from PSM3 Magazine

16.11.12 - The British magazine PSM3 has published in its latest issue a report on the PS4. In it, the magazine has compiled all relevant notifications to next generation console from Sony and talked to developers and other sources.

First: The console does not mean PS4

* The PlayStation brand will be present in the device name, but not the 4th

* The number 4 in Japan is pronounced "shi". "Shi" also means death. Many hospitals in Japan have therefore no room with the number 4 or even a fourth floor - similar to a few high-rise buildings in the West no 13th Floor have.

* The code name of the console is - as reported - currently Orbis and could perhaps later be part of the final name.

Second: Games of the first generation will look like the high-end PC, demos on Watchdogs and Star Wars 1313 or Square Enix's Luminous tech demo.

* PS4 demos to be shown by Sony at E3 2013.

Third: PS4 games will not run well at 4K 'Ultra HD' resolution.

* The standard resolution of the PS4 should be at 1080p and 60 fps.

* If 4k can be used, then probably only for videos.

Fourth: Used games are not readily run on the PS4.

* Sony is planning certain protections in the PS4, including perhaps an online pass or something similar.

5th: The memory should be at 4GB to 8GB

The PS4 will probably have 4GB of memory, but in the end could have 8GB: If the Microsoft Xbox 360 successor have 8GB memory, then Sony would be put under pressure and should follow suit.

6th: 16GB flash memory are planned.

7th: The PS4 will not be backwards compatible with PS3 games.

8th: Games need to be registered to PlayStation Network account.

9th: The paid premium service PlayStation Plus will be an important pillar of the PS4.

10th: Every PS4 should be shipped with a PS Move compatible controller and camera.

11th: Classic games will be available via cloud gaming (Gaikai).

12th: "In-Game" Advertising is to keep on the PS4 collection.

13th: The console will use an AMD Accelerated Processor (4 cores). The chip carries the code name "Liverpool" and is produced in a 28-nanometer process.

14th: The PS4 will cost about EUR 400 to EUR 500 in Europe, where Sony has here probably expect to lose.

Sony has not commented or confirmed the information.

There's some sense to a few of these guesses, like 4GB minimum RAM and 4K being for video playback and not games. Also, unless there are different names for different regions, the number 4 will not be in the name.

Not sure why the "won't play used games" rumor keeps popping up. None of the big 3 has the balls to limit their consoles in such a way. I'll be shocked if any of them actually limit used game playback.

The one worry I have is the "games need to be registered to a PSN account". Could be some sort of always-on DRM a la Ubisoft? Fingers crossed this is false.
post #690 of 1994
I hope they won't even consider doing a controller layout similar to the 360's, people don't only play FPS you know and the current DS3 does Fine with that Genre, not great, but fine is good enough when the controller is pretty much perfect for everything else from RPGs to Fighters. A couple of tweaks to make the controller overall more comfortable would be perfect.

I personally have average sized hands and find the DS3 very comfortable, but some people with large hands do complain about the controller being on the small side, maybe Sony would consider releasing an official large hand friendly controller, those won't be shipped with the console but people can buy it separately if they want to, so it'll be a win-win situation unless this would be bad for their sales or something like that.


As for the PS4 specs, I feel like a lot of people are mostly focusing on the GPU, but I think we should see a real break through when it comes to the CPU, creating something that's insanely powerful but at the same time not difficult to develop for, I'm sick of seeing robot like animations, I'd kill to see fluid & smooth animations during in-game cutscenes.
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