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PlayStation Meeting 2013 (PS4 unveiling - conference replay in first post) - Page 32

post #931 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post


No console war any where on the internet has been as intense and bloody as the BluRay vs. HD-DVD wars held here at AVS. It was pretty brutal, and once they cleaned it up I'm guessing the mods used that experience as the basis for their current stance of discouraging "war" posts and topics for platforms like video games. As a result, we've seen posts deleted, temp bans and thread bans on posters who violate the rules.

Many a soul was lost. 11/01/2007 never forget...

Careful folks, the mods are XBox fanbois. Hope that helps!

I mean why else would the Warhawk AND War Bonds Lighter thread get locked?...

biggrin.gif
post #932 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I always thought so too. This place IS different. I even suggested to the mods to merge all the console forums, because everyone is playing the same games on these platforms. It just fragments the discussion and arbitrarily separates people. And you know, we're all adults.....and they seemed to think it was a really bad idea.

Ah well....I'm hoping the reveal is as epic as I'm hoping. Now I wonder how far behind MS is? Once they announce the PS4 there is going to be an absolute flood of next gen game announcements...so do they really want to maintain the facade while Sony gets all the attention?

You've been here a while, but haven't seen you posting till recently around these forums. They were pretty bad back in 07-09, and there's lots fanbois that loved to step here and troll in the PS3 forum.

Something has changed the last few years, but don't worry, new systems will bring them back.
post #933 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

What could you really do with a touchpad that small? You could barely get a cursor halfway across the screen before hitting the edge. And with it being handheld, I can't imagine it would be stable enough for something as precise as an RTS. I can't think of a good reason not to have it though. As long as they improve the triggers I'm totally fine with the dual shock design.

I'm sure the ps4 will have a real time video encoder, and I bet being able to remotely play your PS4 on a vita will be part of that. But are people really that crazy about streaming over the Internet? Wouldn't you rather be playing the game than watching someone else play?

Well, not be horribly great for gaming, but other media it would. Scrolling in a new web app, browsing media, ect...

It be 1/2 as big as the touchpad on my laptop, but you could add some nice functionality with it (scroll, pinch to zoom, ect), while also allowing it to serve as the legacy buttons in games.
post #934 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

You've been here a while, but haven't seen you posting till recently around these forums. They were pretty bad back in 07-09, and there's lots fanbois that loved to step here and troll in the PS3 forum.

Something has changed the last few years, but don't worry, new systems will bring them back.

Yeah, I used to post mostly on the A/V side and chat about gaming elsewhere. Got fed up with those places cause of the rampant immaturity, the way any discussion quickly degenerated into a personal battle, everyone trying to prove each other wrong rather than actually have a decent and civil conversation. There's still some of that but the mods seem to cut in pretty quick....as long as the mods held the same line in a universal forum, it'd probably work just as well. But that's just more work for them I guess.
post #935 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Well, not be horribly great for gaming, but other media it would. Scrolling in a new web app, browsing media, ect...

It be 1/2 as big as the touchpad on my laptop, but you could add some nice functionality with it (scroll, pinch to zoom, ect), while also allowing it to serve as the legacy buttons in games.

True....it would be a huge improvement for something like that. I'd just prefer it if it was an actual touchscreen and not just a touchpad....it would have far more potential.
post #936 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

^^^ We're awake - that info was already added 15 posts above. smile.gif

~~~

No console war any where on the internet has been as intense and bloody as the BluRay vs. HD-DVD wars held here at AVS. It was pretty brutal, and once they cleaned it up I'm guessing the mods used that experience as the basis for their current stance of discouraging "war" posts and topics for platforms like video games. As a result, we've seen posts deleted, temp bans and thread bans on posters who violate the rules.

Besides, because cross platform wars are allowed at varous sites, it's pretty cool to have options where the main focus is solely on the platform itself.

Oh yes and AVS and the mods were heavily entrenched in the HD-DVD side (not sure why). What ever happened to that Amir dude who blatantly lied about blu-ray (against)and HD-DVD (in favor)?
post #937 of 1994
Just look at the Wii U topic to see that the mods are still watching these topics for any sign that it is getting out of hand. Even sales posts aren't allowed right now due to the potential of a flame war breaking out.
post #938 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

True....it would be a huge improvement for something like that. I'd just prefer it if it was an actual touchscreen and not just a touchpad....it would have far more potential.

I'm not a big fan of touch screens on my console gaming. I mean, I have a 70" HDTV... why should I be forced to look as a sub-par res touchscreen in my hands to do things? Nintendo's vision seems gimmicky and useless to me, harming gaming.

Now, having the option to pair the PSV to you PS3 if you want, using it as 2nd screen so someone else can do something else on the TV, adding optional additional functionality when using a PSV ect. Sure. But not for my core gaming experience please... I don't want to look down at my hands, taking my eye off the TV to see how many bullets I have left or what the mini map looks like.

I'm pretty glad Sony is FINALLY realizing how essential muliplayer and web 2.0 is. But, do they understand it? Stay tuned... They better have invited some American Developers and American Sony reps for a better perspective. Because let's face it, Japanese conglomerates not directly tied into burning new tech are stuck in a 1990's version of the web as far as I can tell.
post #939 of 1994
But I don't want my PS4 to be a glorified Facebook machine. If it turns out to be just that...no thanks. It's scary. Why the hell do I want Facebook/[insert generic social media platform here] tied to my gaming machine? So I can show my high school pals I never really talked to in HS that I'm playing COD:MW23? I don't get it. I just wish they'd focus on the games and everything else should be secondary. If I want to browse the internet, I'll use my PC, laptop, HTPC, iPad, or smartphone. Will anyone really rely on their console for their primary browsing needs? I'm sure a small minority would, but this isn't Nintendo. Playstations and Xboxs aren't chump change. They're likely being set up in homes with other devices that can do these ancillary things far better. Don't try to do everything...just do a few things really well.
post #940 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

But I don't want my PS4 to be a glorified Facebook machine. If it turns out to be just that...no thanks. It's scary. Why the hell do I want Facebook/[insert generic social media platform here] tied to my gaming machine? So I can show my high school pals I never really talked to in HS that I'm playing COD:MW23? I don't get it. I just wish they'd focus on the games and everything else should be secondary. If I want to browse the internet, I'll use my PC, laptop, HTPC, iPad, or smartphone. Will anyone really rely on their console for their primary browsing needs? I'm sure a small minority would, but this isn't Nintendo. Playstations and Xboxs aren't chump change. They're likely being set up in homes with other devices that can do these ancillary things far better. Don't try to do everything...just do a few things really well.

Yup. zero interest in a facebook, ultra social network gaming nonsense. I just want top quality games, free online play (please don't go MS's route of charging for everything, 2nd charge for Netflix, etc). Just top end gaming like this gen.
post #941 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemeat View Post

Yup. zero interest in a facebook, ultra social network gaming nonsense. I just want top quality games, free online play (please don't go MS's route of charging for everything, 2nd charge for Netflix, etc). Just top end gaming like this gen.
+1!!!
post #942 of 1994
This is the interesting part of the article:
Quote:
We have confirmed with sources that recently leaked tech specs are accurate. Though Durango devkits offer 8GB of DDR3 RAM, compared to Orbis’s 4GB, Sony’s GDDR5 solution is capable of moving data at 176 gigabytes per second, which should eliminate the sort of bottlenecks that hampered PS3 game performance. Importantly, we’ve learned that Sony has told developers that it is pushing for the final PS4 RAM to match up to Microsoft’s 8GB.

Maybe they mis-typed or something, but pushing for 8GB GDDR5 RAM?? I'm not the tech guru but that type of memory is expensive to build, no? I'm all for that if they can keep the price down, yet it sounds pie in the sky. But, IF they can fly with 8GB of GDDR5, then I certainly won't complain about the performance boost to the OS, apps, and other functions. I just don't think that Sony can put that much spendy RAM into the box and sell it for $400.
post #943 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

But I don't want my PS4 to be a glorified Facebook machine. If it turns out to be just that...no thanks. It's scary. Why the hell do I want Facebook/[insert generic social media platform here] tied to my gaming machine? So I can show my high school pals I never really talked to in HS that I'm playing COD:MW23? I don't get it. I just wish they'd focus on the games and everything else should be secondary. If I want to browse the internet, I'll use my PC, laptop, HTPC, iPad, or smartphone. Will anyone really rely on their console for their primary browsing needs? I'm sure a small minority would, but this isn't Nintendo. Playstations and Xboxs aren't chump change. They're likely being set up in homes with other devices that can do these ancillary things far better. Don't try to do everything...just do a few things really well.

I agree!

Nintendo has their market- They cater to the living-room party multiplayer games as well as Nintendo exclusives we know and love. Personally, I don't have people over to play wii and I no longer have the interest in Mario carts. Also have no need for their family/kids titles. They do a great job for what they bring and I hope they stick around.

Microsoft will surely bring something impressive that will be more than a gaming machine. It will likely have some form of Windows 8, and will serve other internet/multimedia/social interaction purposes. I am interested to see where it goes as well.

But I HOPE that Sony stops worrying about those markets, and focuses more on their own market. If they want to continue the Move and party-games.. even touchscreen controllers- fine. But make it optional. I want my gaming to be done with accurate, precise controls and an ergonomic controller. Please improve on that and not force us to use gestures or gimmicks. Take the dualshock- make the R2 and L2 buttons more like triggers, and don't try to go crazy like you did with the original PS3 controller. Focus on the processing power, Frames per second, load times, tearing, graphics, etc. Make a machine that can run games that other consoles can't. It will get you more exclusives and more hard core-gamers. Yes, keep the blu-ray player and if you want to have some internet use- fine... But focus on gaming, not on gimmicks. Personally, I would like to keep my PS1, PS2, and PS3 titles and be able to use them on the PS4 (or Orbis, or Omni, or PS4K, or Playstation, or whatever the flying fruit you want to name it),, I am not one to have multiple consoles hooked up... if it can't play my old titles, I will be selling them. I understand if current technology is different and including that B.C. is too expensive-- but without B.C., I will not be all-in on the PS4 just yet.. Basically, with BC, I'm 100% buying the PS4.. without BC, will take whichever machine has more power between Sony/MS.. But that's my opinion, and fully realize you can't have it all... I've also got 5 dualshock 3's.. 1 with a keypad. I've also got 4 moves, and 4 Navigation controllers.. I SELDOM play multiplayer at home, and purchased most of the peripherals used.. but would love them to at least be compatible with the PS4.. Ideally, I would use the new version controller for myself (98% of my gaming), and my other controllers would still be compatible in case I had others over.. One can only hope, right??

Basically, I just hope Sony improves what it has going and continues catering to IT's market. I have a respect for the other consoles and am not a "fanboi" or "hater".. but do prefer the Playstation series for what it is, and would prefer to buy the next one for those same reasons.. That's my 2 cents..
post #944 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash44 View Post

This is the interesting part of the article:
Maybe they mis-typed or something, but pushing for 8GB GDDR5 RAM?? I'm not the tech guru but that type of memory is expensive to build, no? I'm all for that if they can keep the price down, yet it sounds pie in the sky. But, IF they can fly with 8GB of GDDR5, then I certainly won't complain about the performance boost to the OS, apps, and other functions. I just don't think that Sony can put that much spendy RAM into the box and sell it for $400.

What's expensive today, will no longer be in a few years. They might decide to temporarily eat the cost if it means not having inferior games.
post #945 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan View Post

But I HOPE that Sony stops worrying about those markets, and focuses more on their own market.
While that might be nice for us, Sony's "own market" is shrinking rapidly. They have to get creative and aggressive in finding new markets. They've had horrible luck with their last three hardware launches (PS3, PSPGo, and PSVita). Those were all pieces of hardware catered to their brand loyalists, and they floundered (or failed) out of the gate.

Clearly, catering to "their own market" just won't cut it. They're going to have to do something, and they're no longer fighting a war on two fronts (Nintendo and MS). They're now fighting on a dozen different fronts (Apple, PC, Android, Nintendo, Ouya, MS, Gamestick, etc., etc.). We're entering into a crazy transitional year where a lot of insanity could happen in the gaming hardware market. If Sony want to win big, they're going to have to do something drastic.
post #946 of 1994
Has the Vita flopped? If so, I wonder why. It is an amazing little piece of hardware...much more so than the PSP. I'm really enjoying it whereas my PSP was played for maybe 5 hours total and did nothing but gathered dust.
post #947 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

Has the Vita flopped? If so, I wonder why. It is an amazing little piece of hardware...much more so than the PSP. I'm really enjoying it whereas my PSP was played for maybe 5 hours total and did nothing but gathered dust.
It's a cool little device, but it's too expensive, the games are too expensive to buy and too expensive to make, and the portable market is now dominated by mobile. Even the 3DS is struggling, and that's after a major price drop.

Of course, it could still turn around. But there's just no developer/publisher interest to be had. Everyone's moving to mobile.

Anyway, I hope that Sony has learned those lessons well for its upcoming new console. But, as ever, I'm skeptical. Large businesses are dumb and slow.
post #948 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

What's expensive today, will no longer be in a few years. They might decide to temporarily eat the cost if it means not having inferior games.

Even if they don't eat the cost, I'd rather pay $50 more and have the 8GB, rather than sacrifice game quality and UI functionality for the next 6 years with only 4GB.
post #949 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

While that might be nice for us, Sony's "own market" is shrinking rapidly. They have to get creative and aggressive in finding new markets. They've had horrible luck with their last three hardware launches (PS3, PSPGo, and PSVita). Those were all pieces of hardware catered to their brand loyalists, and they floundered (or failed) out of the gate.

Clearly, catering to "their own market" just won't cut it. They're going to have to do something, and they're no longer fighting a war on two fronts (Nintendo and MS). They're now fighting on a dozen different fronts (Apple, PC, Android, Nintendo, Ouya, MS, Gamestick, etc., etc.). We're entering into a crazy transitional year where a lot of insanity could happen in the gaming hardware market. If Sony want to win big, they're going to have to do something drastic.

Well just this month Sony finally outsold the 360, by about a million units world wide. They closed the gap and went past it with a year lag. Not too shabby.

But it's true attach rates are down. But the same can be said for MS and across the industry unless your a Nintendo 1st party title. Sony also needs to aggressively reassert itself in the US, and I think a social / web 2.0 focus is that coming to fruition. It'll probably be for PS+ members, but they look to have decided they need to take their OS and background functions more seriously this time, rather than slapping in some functionality. Hopefully social aspects means cross game chat, screenshots and video, better clan support, official leader-board, stat tracking, better trophy support, ect. All on a XMB OS that doesn't chug just trying to send a text message to a friend.

They really need that all around integration, which MS can out running with in the 360.
post #950 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

It's a cool little device, but it's too expensive, the games are too expensive to buy and too expensive to make, and the portable market is now dominated by mobile. Even the 3DS is struggling, and that's after a major price drop.

Of course, it could still turn around. But there's just no developer/publisher interest to be had. Everyone's moving to mobile.

Anyway, I hope that Sony has learned those lessons well for its upcoming new console. But, as ever, I'm skeptical. Large businesses are dumb and slow.

There's enough top-shelf free games on PSPlus right now that I'm thinking about picking up a Vita, but I'm not sure if I'd ever actually use it. I don't have a lot of sitting around doing nothing time when I'm out, and if I'm at home I'd rather play on the big screen...
post #951 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

What's expensive today, will no longer be in a few years. They might decide to temporarily eat the cost if it means not having inferior games.
I think the days of selling hardware at an initial direct loss are over. The only way that is possible is if they subsidize that loss through some sort of subscription service or 2-year contract through ISPs or something of the sort. That way they amortize the apparent "loss" through sub/service fees.

It could happen. MS has already done it successfully for the 360 (selling the console for $99 with a 2-year contract). And the mobile industry is built on that model. We'll see what Sony does.
post #952 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

It's a cool little device, but it's too expensive, the games are too expensive to buy and too expensive to make, and the portable market is now dominated by mobile. Even the 3DS is struggling, and that's after a major price drop.

Of course, it could still turn around. But there's just no developer/publisher interest to be had. Everyone's moving to mobile.

Anyway, I hope that Sony has learned those lessons well for its upcoming new console. But, as ever, I'm skeptical. Large businesses are dumb and slow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

There's enough top-shelf free games on PSPlus right now that I'm thinking about picking up a Vita, but I'm not sure if I'd ever actually use it. I don't have a lot of sitting around doing nothing time when I'm out, and if I'm at home I'd rather play on the big screen...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

There's enough top-shelf free games on PSPlus right now that I'm thinking about picking up a Vita, but I'm not sure if I'd ever actually use it. I don't have a lot of sitting around doing nothing time when I'm out, and if I'm at home I'd rather play on the big screen...

This is why I haven't bought a Vita as well- Don't see enough free time/dead time when out of the house and would prefer the big tv/console when I am gaming in the house.. I do think a power house can still work in a console- and as MS proved (and Sony with PS+ to an extent), most "hard core" gamers do not mind paying monthly fees... If it means a more powerful console without an outrageous up-front cost- I wouldn't mind paying a contract-type monthly fee for a couple years
post #953 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I think the days of selling hardware at an initial direct loss are over. The only way that is possible is if they subsidize that loss through some sort of subscription service or 2-year contract through ISPs or something of the sort. That way they amortize the apparent "loss" through sub/service fees.

It could happen. MS has already done it successfully for the 360 (selling the console for $99 with a 2-year contract). And the mobile industry is built on that model. We'll see what Sony does.
I think they can still sell at a loss, it just has to be a smaller percentage. While Sony may not be in financial heaven, it's not as bad as some like to make it. Some people make it sound like they are minutes away from having to declare bankruptcy, and that isn't the case. I would agree with bd, if they want to charge $50 more than the nextbox but you get a bad ass machine, I am down. Just don't make it a $600 machine this time and they will be fine.
post #954 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

Well just this month Sony finally outsold the 360, by about a million units world wide. They closed the gap and went past it with a year lag. Not too shabby.
Yes, that is something, and Sony has done a great job of turning around the PS3 from its first two years. Unfortunately, they're all fighting over scraps at this point. The traditional gaming industry is hurting, so there are no real "winners" among the big console manufacturers right now. Mobile is kicking their asses in terms of profit margins, growth, new investments, new products, etc., etc. Unless this next round of consoles can prove otherwise, the console market might get swallowed up by mobile platforms, mobile-console hybrids, and Steam-based console-PC hybrids. I know I wouldn't want to be in Sony's shoes right now.
Quote:
Sony also needs to aggressively reassert itself in the US, and I think a social / web 2.0 focus is that coming to fruition. It'll probably be for PS+ members, but they look to have decided they need to take their OS and background functions more seriously this time, rather than slapping in some functionality. Hopefully social aspects means cross game chat, screenshots and video, better clan support, official leader-board, stat tracking, better trophy support, ect. All on a XMB OS that doesn't chug just trying to send a text message to a friend.
Couldn't agree more. Both Steam and Game Center are better social platforms than any of the three consoles. The console platforms got stuck in a rut and stopped pushing that stuff. And in Sony's case, they ran up against hardware limitations. Hopefully, they've learned just how important it is to allow those social features to evolve and to have the hardware capacity and network infrastructure to let that happen. That was Sony's Achilles' Heel this gen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

There's enough top-shelf free games on PSPlus right now that I'm thinking about picking up a Vita, but I'm not sure if I'd ever actually use it. I don't have a lot of sitting around doing nothing time when I'm out, and if I'm at home I'd rather play on the big screen...
Yup. Add in the fact that most of us already have portable gaming devices (i.e. phones) with us everywhere we go, and it's harder to justify a Vita. If they're aimed at an older crowd than the 3DS, then they've put themselves squarely in the crosshairs of Apple and Android. I had a Vita for a while, and I found that I just never used it. It just didn't fit into my life anywhere. When I'm traveling, I've got my tablet, laptop, and phone. When I'm at home, I've got consoles and a PC. Where would the Vita fit into that?

Sony really blew their shot at cross-play/cross-buy.
Edited by confidenceman - 2/1/13 at 2:24pm
post #955 of 1994
Just a quick reply in regards to Vita -


If anybody is considering getting a Vita, check your local Craiglist. Where I live, they are going as cheap as $130 for a Vita with a memory card. It's a bit shocking that they have fallen in price on the secondary market, so far, and so fast.
post #956 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mounta1n View Post

Even if they don't eat the cost, I'd rather pay $50 more and have the 8GB, rather than sacrifice game quality and UI functionality for the next 6 years with only 4GB.

Agreed. Although in most cases, I'd bet the result is that the nextbox wouldn't see its full potential being used in third party games, since they'll have to build them to th lowest common denominator.
post #957 of 1994
If Vita had and HDMI out I'd highly consider it.

Frankly, I just want to play some PSP/VIta games on my tv, so if they could be played on the PS3/PS4 I'd be happy.
post #958 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

I think they can still sell at a loss, it just has to be a smaller percentage. While Sony may not be in financial heaven, it's not as bad as some like to make it. Some people make it sound like they are minutes away from having to declare bankruptcy, and that isn't the case. I would agree with bd, if they want to charge $50 more than the nextbox but you get a bad ass machine, I am down. Just don't make it a $600 machine this time and they will be fine.

How about something like

stripped down version for $449
or $249 with $15/month 2 year contract

More powerful version with all the bells and whistles for $649
or $449 with $15/month 2 year contract

If they are paying 200-250 for a current gen model, people will pay $249 for a next gen w/ 2 yr contract... while with these ranges- they will get a fair amount to pay $649 to be contract free with a powerhouse... Obviously I pulled these numbers out of thin air, but I think they give reasonable price points that would allow most gamers to purchase a system in their budget, while still allowing sony to put out a powerful console without losing their butt.... I would think the $449 with $15/month 2 yr contract would appeal to many buyers, and Sony would ultimately get $809 over the two years- enough to make a powerful console IMO.

And I agree.. Sony has certainly had to make changes to business, but it's not like they are going belly up anytime soon.
post #959 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan View Post

How about something like

stripped down version for $449
or $249 with $15/month 2 year contract

More powerful version with all the bells and whistles for $649
or $449 with $15/month 2 year contract

If they are paying 200-250 for a current gen model, people will pay $249 for a next gen w/ 2 yr contract... while with these ranges- they will get a fair amount to pay $649 to be contract free with a powerhouse... Obviously I pulled these numbers out of thin air, but I think they give reasonable price points that would allow most gamers to purchase a system in their budget, while still allowing sony to put out a powerful console without losing their butt.... I would think the $449 with $15/month 2 yr contract would appeal to many buyers, and Sony would ultimately get $809 over the two years- enough to make a powerful console IMO.
I just don't see that happening. A lot of people are specualting that it will be $400, $450 at the most.
post #960 of 1994
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMonMan View Post

If they are paying 200-250 for a current gen model, people will pay $249 for a next gen w/ 2 yr contract...
Sounds about right. Launching a new console at what looks like $299 (really closer to $450-500 when you add in the 2-year contract and necessary accessories) would go a long way towards getting broad consumer attention.
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