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Pinball Arcade - the ultimate pinball simulator! - Page 8

post #211 of 267
2/6/13 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

For $50 a year (currently $50 for 15 months), PS+ is an awesome value for the moderate to heavy gamer. It has a ton of perks, like auto patcihng, a GB of backup cloud storage on Sony's servers for your saves, access to exclusive/early betas, one hour free play on a ton of games and more.

The two main benefits however are deep discounts on a lot of titles and DLC (yours to keep even if unsubscribed), as well as free downloads to select, complete games that you can play as long as you are a member (even if you delete it from your system).

Since you say you don't buy or play too many games, an annual sub to PS+ may not be for you. But I tell you what - don't even worry about paying for a three month sub right now. I'll PM you one of my left over one-month PS+ codes for you to use at any time for Pinball Arcade DLC discounts when they come, or anything else you want to get from the PS+ service should you decide to skip the game.

I got your PM Joe and just wanted to send a HUGE THANKS! smile.gif That was really cool of you and I will put it to good use! Just noticed that Pinball Arcade is 50% off for PS+ members which will save me $5 right off the bat. cool.gif Thanks again though Joe, much appreciated.
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post #212 of 267
2/6/13 at 3:24pm
Aw man, I hate when my long posts go to the page before frown.gif
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post #213 of 267
2/6/13 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Aw man, I hate when my long posts go to the page before frown.gif

Don't worry, I read it. lol

And I agree that TPA flippers on some tables felt like they are moving through molasses, though I have yet to try with the latest patch (I have a plasma as well and have no issue with Zen tables or HoFP). I lost interest a couple weeks after after the core game came out partly for this reason, though I might be interested in some DLC if the Plus sales price is right or they offer a good bundle.
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post #214 of 267
2/6/13 at 4:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

I just played Black Hole, Arabian Nights and Funhouse. Maybe it's not lag, maybe it's just the flippers do not feel responsive to me, like they are moving through molasses. I'm an old-school pinball player, between 1976 to the release of High Speed, I played pinball for several hours a day, several hours a week. My parents owned a roller rink when I was a kid. One of the things I loved about Williams pinball machines were how QUICK they were. None of the other machines (Bally, Gottlieb, etc.) were as quick as Williams machines. So when I play the Williams table, I expect them to feel like the real thing.

I have attached a video of one of my favorite old-school Williams tables, Space Shuttle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkBirOBvi98

Here's another one we had back in the day, Big Ben, going back to the 70s here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NANexdy0VTU

You can see how quick the flippers are. Pull up a Ballys machine from the same era, how about Supersonic, another machine I played a lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDkWusJtGVU

I don't know if you can tell the difference in the flipper "feel", but it's not the same. You might or should see the flipper speed is slower on the Bally's machine. In fact, typically all the Bally's machines had a more laid back feel than the Williams tables.

I realize these difference are probably subtle when you are watching them on a video, but when you are playing the real table it's all the difference in the world. It can mean the difference between a great shot and a miss.

One of the tables I put a million hours on in 76 was Gottleib's El Dorado. It is pretty much the table I cut my teeth on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqaideeeJ9M Compare this one to the next one (by the way these guys can't play pinball )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5MEJHfe1Lo Look how much slower this table's flippers are, this is how my Pinball Arcade feels to me.

We have an arcade by my house, and we still go play the real thing. Unfortunately, they don't have any classics, just the new Stern machines. I've found them to be not as reliable and as "tactile" as the older tables. frown.gif

BTW, if you want to add me to your PSN friends list, my screen name here is my PSN name. Be sure I know who you are, because I'm EXTREMELY picky about who I have on my list. At 47, I don't want a bunch of kids. wink.gif

EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I still think it has to be lag. I see the ball coming, and I'll miss it when I should make a shot.

We don't get enough quality posts at the sub forum, so I'll bring it back here. smile.gif

When I was a lot younger I do remember noticing that pinball machines from different companies had different mechanics like you describe. I didn't focus it all into detail like you did, but varying flipper physics does change the experience.

Regarding your recent TPA attempts, maybe the ball doesn't go where you want becaus you aren't used to the new physics patch, I dunno. As for me, I am happy that I was able to obliterate some of my high scores since it came out.

My aiming is more precise now than it was in the Williams Collection. One example is that soon after the patch I was able to almost win the final Battle for the Kingdom in Medieval Madness. I had cleared all the many requirements and came a few shots short of winning the game. I never got that close in MM with the Williams Collection and no one claims that one has lag.
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post #215 of 267
2/7/13 at 7:30am
It isn't that the ball doesn't go where I want, there is a delayed action or the flipper doesn't react as expected, therefore the shot isn't made as I have planned. I will keep playing though to see if I can become used to it.
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post #216 of 267
2/7/13 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Farsight already commented on the lag - it is 1/60th of one second. As a comparison, it was recently revealed that Tekken Tag 2 had one extra frame of lag when compared to T6, and even the highest level players hadn't noticed.

It may not be best to compare pinball games from different companies because the engines and physics are just too different. Instead, compare the highly regarded Williams Collection with TPA since it is the same company. You can even test the same tables (i.e. Taxi vs Taxi). That way it is more apples to apples.

Btw, I have the Zen Marvel tables and do not feel any superior flipper control.

FarSight identified and removed some lag. They have said that they have identified 1 frame of lag as a result of lighting processing that they don't think they can remove. They have also said that they continue to work on lag issues on the ps3 version. Reading between the lines I see that as meaning that they know there is more than 1 frame of lag but they do not know yet what is causing it. However, I can assure you that it is more than one frame. I wouldn't be able to see one frame of lag. All I need to do to see it is play PHoF Williams for the ps3. I experience no lag in PHoF W. I think the lag in TPA is probably around 3 to 5 frames. It was worse before the last couple of patches. I don't notice it anymore but pinballers that I have try out the game notice it right away. Before the last couple of patches I could not make the catapult shot in MM on a regular basis. Now I can. I believe that the lag used to be as much as 10 frames.

People who are experiencing more lag than 5 frames are probably not playing in gamemode on their TV. The other culprit that I'm still trying to document is a problem with the newer controllers. It might have something to do with the new controllers and the two stage flippers.
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post #217 of 267
2/7/13 at 7:50am
I am essentially in game mode on my set. I have zero processing turned on, and being a plasma I don't have any 120hz junk either. It is possible it's a controller issue, and I considered that yesterday while I was testing the new patch. I may fire it up again today and try through the USB cable to see if the wireless is any of the problem.
Quote:
I don't notice it anymore but pinballers that I have try out the game notice it right away.

This is me. smile.gif
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post #218 of 267
2/7/13 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

I may fire it up again today and try through the USB cable to see if the wireless is any of the problem.

IIRC, the USB cable only charges the Dual Shock - it doesn't transmit controller data. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Switching between the PS3 to the 360 version of The Pinball Arcade, I can tell a little bit more flipper lag on the PS3 version. It's too bad the 360 version is in update limbo because they are changing publishers.
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post #219 of 267
2/7/13 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

IIRC, the USB cable only charges the Dual Shock - it doesn't transmit controller data. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Switching between the PS3 to the 360 version of The Pinball Arcade, I can tell a little bit more flipper lag on the PS3 version. It's too bad the 360 version is in update limbo because they are changing publishers.

It does something when you plug them in. In PHoF for the PS3 when we'd play with three players wirelessly, the controllers would lose connectivity for short periods of time. If you had the ball trapped on a flipper it would suddenly release and reapply the flipper causing the ball to shoot off in a random direction. The fix for this was to plug in all the controllers.
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post #220 of 267
2/7/13 at 11:49am
Thread Starter 
Every frame is 16.666 ms. Some of the worst gaming HDTVs on the market measure at 50-70 ms of lag which is 3-4 frames. Five frames of lag (or 1/5th of a second) would be close to unplayable. TPA was not that bad even before the first patch.

Playing on the free Vita version with its lag free display and then going to the PS3 version on one's best display is a comparable experience.

Can a advanced pinballer sense a frame or two difference? OK, I'll go with that. But it isn't nearly as dramatic as 4-5 frames would be. You may be reading too much into Farsight's 1-frame lag admission.
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post #221 of 267
2/7/13 at 12:55pm
Zen Pinball on the Vita is completely lag free. I don't recall if I've tried HoF on the Vita. I'll have to do that this weekend. My daughter took my Vita with her for a week.
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post #222 of 267
2/7/13 at 1:44pm
Thread Starter 
Have you tried TPA on it yet?
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post #223 of 267
2/7/13 at 2:11pm
Hmm I've always thought the Vita ran better than the PS3 for this pinball game.
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post #224 of 267
2/7/13 at 2:15pm
Thread Starter 
It would if only because the Vita's screen has 0 ms of lag, unlike even the best HDTVs. It then comes down to the degree of difference between the two platforms.
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post #225 of 267
2/7/13 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Have you tried TPA on it yet?

Sorry, I meant TPA. I don't recall if I have or not. Now I'm excited to try. Pinball is TINY on that screen! smile.gif
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post #226 of 267
2/7/13 at 2:39pm
The PS3 has the fancy/excessive lighting feature which makes things runs slower...
Edited by defdog99 - 2/7/13 at 3:14pm
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post #227 of 267
2/8/13 at 8:14am
DL the game and have only played TOTAN so far, but am having a blast. Looks and plays great. I am having a bitch of a time hitting those far left and right passages as you really have to catch the ball perfectly on the very low part of the flipper, but I am sure this is due to my lack of skill at this point mostly. Was able to muster up 120mil last night which I thought might be respectable, but then I looked at the leaderboard........ eek.gifeek.gif My mind was blown seeing the top scores top out at well over 8 billion?!?!

Looking forward to checking out the other tables though and very glad I grabbed this! smile.gif
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post #228 of 267
2/8/13 at 10:32am
Thread Starter 
^^^ TotAN is an excellent game. Concentrate on saving the princess by completing all of the trials and defeating the genie to see your scores skyrocket.

Theater of Magic is my current focus right now. It is a ton of fun and is my favorite of the four launch tables. My only complaint is that the magnet saves near both out lanes are not consistent enough at saving my ball (especially the right one). That could have been an issue with the real table though; I don't know.
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post #229 of 267
2/8/13 at 10:33am
Thread Starter 
Two days ago Farsight sent me my kickstarter code for the Twilight Zone table that has received so many raves over the years. They also threw in a free custom TZ ball (very nice with B&W stripes), and the table's Pro Mode, which gives tips on how to play it and allows us to free look around the table.

I have to admit that I had never played it, and don't think I saw one in my arcade stomping grounds. I avoiding watching videos of it when announced as I wanted my first impression of it to be my first play through upon release.

One thing I'll add before commenting on the table is that the Twilight Zone is my all time favorite TV show. I used to skip algebra class in middle school to watch reruns at my friend's house across the street from school. To this day I still love that show, and have a teen daughter who is into it almost as much as I am. So coming into playing the table in TPA I could not have been more excited, especially since it was made by the maker of my all-time favorite pinball machine, The Addams Family. The translation from movie to game was absolutely perfect for that one.

I start up my shiny, new Twilight Zone table and smile at the catchy light-techno remix of the immortal theme song. It could use more bass, but this was made in the 90s when maybe the machine tech wasn't all that hot for sound. I jump in for three play-throughs of TZ pinball, I have never felt so sad about a video game in my life. To this hardcore TZ fan, the pinball machine is terrible as an homage to the show. Keep in mind I am not talking about the game aspects since I don't even know all of the dozens of rules it has - just the aesthetics.

For one, there is a gumball machine in the upper right, a ramp that must be targeted several times to spell gumball, and the most prominent thing displayed on the attract board besides Rod Serling himself is a gumball machine. What does a gumball machine have to do with the Twilight Zone?!?!?! There aren't any in even one episode of the show! I mean, the entire concept of a gumball machine doesn't even fit with the show's vibe at all. How random can you get with something stupid like that. It would be like if the designer screwed up The Addams Family by adding something random all over the table like a pink unicorn.

Also, the music playing in the background is atrocious. Whatever possessed them to create that upbeat, generic garbage for the main score, I do not know. Did they once sit down and discuss trying to replicate something close to Bernard Herrmann's immortal productions? He was a composer for the supporting music in a lot of the show's episode, but is more greatly known as the composer for many of Hitchcock's most memorable films (like Psycho's crazy string screeching during the shower scene). The music for the machine should be eerie and unsettling. It should be constantly increasing anxiousness and anticipation as you progressed through the goals.

The last thing that offended me is that there seems to be a boss monster in the TZ table call The Power. It taunts you with audio clips like "Are you ready to battle?" and wild laughter and the like. It is as if the makers of this table tried to personify all of the the weirdness and chaos that is evident in every episode into one source being. That is not what the show was about.

The game itself could be fun to play when viewed purely as a pinball machine; I dunno. I was so turned off by it that I haven't fired it up since. Maybe if in the future I can detach the table from the show to be able to enjoy it. Next time I'll read through the rules to focus on game play and see if that helps.
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post #230 of 267
2/8/13 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Also, the music playing in the background is atrocious. Whatever possessed them to create that upbeat, generic garbage for the main score, I do not know.

The music used for this table is a version of Golden Earring's "Twilight Zone", a hit in the 80s.

Not to crap on any of your points, because you were spot-on for all of it. I'm wondering why I miss the fascination with this table, but it doesn't do all that much for me either.
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post #231 of 267
2/8/13 at 10:59am
Thread Starter 
I just listened to the song you mentioned on YouTube. Now I'm even more depressed. frown.gif

Ironically enough, I absolutely love the techno Twilight Zone song even though it also has no real connection with the show. smile.gif
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post #232 of 267
2/8/13 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

Two days ago Farsight sent me my kickstarter code for the Twilight Zone table that has received so many raves over the years. They also threw in a free custom TZ ball (very nice with B&W stripes), and the table's Pro Mode, which gives tips on how to play it and allows us to free look around the table.

I have to admit that I had never played it, and don't think I saw one in my arcade stomping grounds. I avoiding watching videos of it when announced as I wanted my first impression of it to be my first play through upon release.

One thing I'll add before commenting on the table is that the Twilight Zone is my all time favorite TV show. I used to skip algebra class in middle school to watch reruns at my friend's house across the street from school. To this day I still love that show, and have a teen daughter who is into it almost as much as I am. So coming into playing the table in TPA I could not have been more excited, especially since it was made by the maker of my all-time favorite pinball machine, The Addams Family. The translation from movie to game was absolutely perfect for that one.

I start up my shiny, new Twilight Zone table and smile at the catchy light-techno remix of the immortal theme song. It could use more bass, but this was made in the 90s when maybe the machine tech wasn't all that hot for sound. I jump in for three play-throughs of TZ pinball, I have never felt so sad about a video game in my life. To this hardcore TZ fan, the pinball machine is terrible as an homage to the show. Keep in mind I am not talking about the game aspects since I don't even know all of the dozens of rules it has - just the aesthetics.

For one, there is a gumball machine in the upper right, a ramp that must be targeted several times to spell gumball, and the most prominent thing displayed on the attract board besides Rod Serling himself is a gumball machine. What does a gumball machine have to do with the Twilight Zone?!?!?! There aren't any in even one episode of the show! I mean, the entire concept of a gumball machine doesn't even fit with the show's vibe at all. How random can you get with something stupid like that. It would be like if the designer screwed up The Addams Family by adding something random all over the table like a pink unicorn.

Also, the music playing in the background is atrocious. Whatever possessed them to create that upbeat, generic garbage for the main score, I do not know. Did they once sit down and discuss trying to replicate something close to Bernard Herrmann's immortal productions? He was a composer for the supporting music in a lot of the show's episode, but is more greatly known as the composer for many of Hitchcock's most memorable films (like Psycho's crazy string screeching during the shower scene). The music for the machine should be eerie and unsettling. It should be constantly increasing anxiousness and anticipation as you progressed through the goals.

The last thing that offended me is that there seems to be a boss monster in the TZ table call The Power. It taunts you with audio clips like "Are you ready to battle?" and wild laughter and the like. It is as if the makers of this table tried to personify all of the the weirdness and chaos that is evident in every episode into one source being. That is not what the show was about.

The game itself could be fun to play when viewed purely as a pinball machine; I dunno. I was so turned off by it that I haven't fired it up since. Maybe if in the future I can detach the table from the show to be able to enjoy it. Next time I'll read through the rules to focus on game play and see if that helps.

There are only two things on the table that aren't derived directly from the TV show and those are the gumball machine and the power. I think that Lawlor not only wanted to pay homage to the show but also create some new things that could have been in a TZ episode but weren't. I think you're missing the point of the TV show if you think that there couldn't be more stories to tell. Every show was about something new. There could have been an episode with a mysterious gum ball machine that had a special gum ball in it. There could have been an episode about a mysterious power that controls the evil and weird things in this world. There are over 50 things on the table that pay direct homage to episodes from Twilight Zone and only two things that came from Lawlor's imagination. I think that's a good ratio.

The table came out right before the implementation of their DCS sound system debuted so the sound isn't the best. But it is made worse by TPA since they seem to remove all the dynamics from the table sounds when they reproduce them.

I do agree with you on the main music theme of the table. I don't know who on the original table team wrote that but it misses the mark.

As far as FarSight's recreation of the table I think they did a good job. There are some annoying bugs that crop up (it IS a FarSight creation after all) but the table plays very much like the real thing. My only disappointment was in the lighting. The table overall is too well lit. The lights on the table as a result don't pop like they should. There is also a lack of shading and shadows. Many objects on the table that should look chrome or metal come off looking like plastic. TPA tables do look kind of cartoony but this one is more cartoony than usual.

The lighting and other art short comings do not take away from my overall enjoyment of the table. It is a solid offering in the TPA universe.
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post #233 of 267
2/8/13 at 11:23am
Thread Starter 
I would never say that more TZ stories could not be told. I hear that DiCaprio has been fielding writers to help bring the show back and I'm excited for it. I also liked the one original story in the TZ movie from the 80s. But you can not create a new, comprehensible story in a pinball game and expect people to grasp it. With no plot or characters you have no context, and therefore no connection.

Since there are also a ton of random legit TZ references throughout, one can not expect new references to stand out and hold up on their own as well as they do, especially when it is something so random as a gumball machine, which does not have a TZ vibe at all on its own. I mean, there is nothing more prominent than that thing on the entire table (besides Serling himself), and as you say it has nothing to do with the show! Add new stuff? Fine, but keep it low key and let the real TZ concepts stand out more.

Combined with the awful music and the taunting Power, it takes this TZ fan completely out of the "feel" for the show when playing. That is its major crime. The opposite should happen instead to be a successful homage.
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post #234 of 267
2/8/13 at 12:22pm
And that's that. Point. Counterpoint. I think they both have a Twilight Zone "vibe" and both fit in the game just fine.
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post #235 of 267
2/9/13 at 7:37pm
HAvent got there yet, but on the real machines, there's a gumball in it.

Its a white ball, super light, and made of ceramics so its uber fast compared to the metal balls. Cant remember if there's a magnet on this table. If you are playing the gumball it avoids the magnet, of course.
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post #236 of 267
2/11/13 at 1:38am
Thread Starter 
I still can't get enough of this game. I always think I'll only play for a half hour or so and end up playing two hours.

Slowly my scores have been improving, with Theater of Magic leading the way. I quadrupled my score in that one since I last updated after finally reaching the Grand Finale. Progress has also been made in Taxi (topping 10 million finally), and my favorite table Medieval Madness where I doubled my last score and came super close to completing Battle for the Kingdom to win the game.


Theater of Magic
4.7 billion

Bride of Pinbot
3.3 billion

Funhouse
28 million

Medieval Madness
215 million

Tales of the Arabian Night
98.7 million

Elvira and the Party Monsters
15.5 million

Taxi
10.6 million

Gorgar
1.3 million

Black Hole
1.2 million

Black Knight
534 thousand

~~~

The high score list in the game has place holder graphics for Big Shot and Elvira: Scared Stiff. Hopefully we don't see any more delays.
Edited by joeblow - 2/11/13 at 1:53am
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post #237 of 267
2/11/13 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeblow View Post

I still can't get enough of this game. I always think I'll only play for a half hour or so and end up playing two hours.

Slowly my scores have been improving, with Theater of Magic leading the way. I quadrupled my score in that one since I last updated after finally reaching the Grand Finale. Progress has also been made in Taxi (topping 10 million finally), and my favorite table Medieval Madness where I doubled my last score and came super close to completing Battle for the Kingdom to win the game.


Theater of Magic
4.7 billion

Bride of Pinbot
3.3 billion

Funhouse
28 million

Medieval Madness
215 million

Tales of the Arabian Night
98.7 million

Elvira and the Party Monsters
15.5 million

Taxi
10.6 million

Gorgar
1.3 million

Black Hole
1.2 million

Black Knight
534 thousand

~~~

The high score list in the game has place holder graphics for Big Shot and Elvira: Scared Stiff. Hopefully we don't see any more delays.

I am having a blast as well and I have only played one table so far! Looking forward to checking out the others. I got HOOKED on MM with the Williams collectuon a few years ago so am excited to revisit that machine in this version.

I even ended up getting the game on the 360 as well. I usually have one console in the HT and one upstairs so I wanted the game on both so I could play it in either setup without moving consoles around. tongue.gif Great game though and money well spent even though I have only barely scratched the surface.
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post #238 of 267
2/12/13 at 9:13am
Big Shot and Scared Stiff are supposed to hit the store today. I'm looking forward to both. Big Shot is a really good EM game and should be more fun than Jive Time. Jive Time was good for historical reference but Big Shot is actually fun. I'm not really into the Elvira thing but Scared Stiff is a good table. A bit more fun than Party Monsters in my opinion.
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post #239 of 267
2/12/13 at 9:22am
Big Shot will be a great addition. I'll buy if it is released today.
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post #240 of 267
2/12/13 at 10:14am
Thread Starter 
In what ways are EM tables different from non-EM tables?
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