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When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 5

post #121 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Sorry, Feri ... no can do.

Denon is always tight lipped around this time of year and I'm still trying to break into the "new gang" at Denon what with Jeff T. gone. Note, however, I just picked those models off of the parts distributor's website, no other inside information available on the 1723 or it's validity.

No trouble at all jd! Recently my father at 80 received his renewed plastic card driver's license extended to 2050. He said: "They trust me!"

We trust Denon!

Take care!
post #122 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Likely next week sometime which is about when the XX12 line was announced last year.

As it turns out though, one of the authorized parts distributors is already reporting parts for the new models ...

1513
1613
1713
1723
1913
2313CI
3313CI

So the 1513 replaces the 1312 and no 2112CI replacement it appears.

There definitely is a 2113CI.
post #123 of 1844
Where is the news of the new Denon Flagship?
post #124 of 1844
^^
Not scheduled to be announced until later this summer.
post #125 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Come to think of it, why are there five AVRs in the 1x13 line?

To attack different price levels at the low end where people are very sensitive to a $50 or $100 difference in price.
post #126 of 1844
That's reactive old school marketing, which results in higher inventory, marketing and product costs. In particular, that customer who will ditch you for 25 bucks is unlikely to be a loyal repeat customer - at least not at any price which makes you a reliable profit.

Better off defining the value better and stop trying to be all things to all people with a million price points and confusing product definition. That's half the reason the airlines bleed money - they are awful marketers and do everything NOT to create loyal customers.

I applaud the efforts of the likes of batpig, but when the customer needs to dissect a thread on an obscure web forum to understand what the products are and how the differ, it's the clearest sign that the brand owner has failed to deliver an understandable product lineup.
post #127 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

That's reactive old school marketing, which results in higher inventory, marketing and product costs. In particular, that customer who will ditch you for 25 bucks is unlikely to be a loyal repeat customer - at least not at any price which makes you a reliable profit.

Better off defining the value better and stop trying to be all things to all people with a million price points and confusing product definition. That's half the reason the airlines bleed money - they are awful marketers and do everything NOT to create loyal customers.

I applaud the efforts of the likes of batpig, but when the customer needs to dissect a thread on an obscure web forum to understand what the products are and how the differ, it's the clearest sign that the brand owner has failed to deliver an understandable product lineup.

Not just that - trying to maintain different AVRs at price points that are close to one another is self-defeating when EDLP (Brick and Mortar store's Everyday Low Pricing) isn't MRSP, the AVRs can be marginally discounted by promotions or short-term sales, or most importantly the customer can buy them online from vendors (even authorized ones) that will negotiate price.
post #128 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Not just that - trying to maintain different AVRs at price points that are close to one another is self-defeating when EDLP (Brick and Mortar store's Everyday Low Pricing) isn't MRSP, the AVRs can be marginally discounted by promotions or short-term sales, or most importantly the customer can buy them online from vendors (even authorized ones) that will negotiate price.

Not really..
When the Denon features and power output specs are disclosed...
One will see there is not alot of differences between models. Denon's strategy is to sell certain retailers one model and another model to another retail segment, that way all of the retailers don't carry the same model while driving the pricing down & down..
1 model can go to the Best Buys/Magnolia and another to the Internet resellers..

Over the last 18 months, Denon's biz is off by 56% and in order to regain credibility with their distribution channels they need to protect the retailer's profit margin.. If the dealers just compete on price by carrying the same model, they will drop the brand if unable to make a reasonable profit margin..

Just my $0.02...
post #129 of 1844
That sounds like a reasonable reason for so many models.
post #130 of 1844
Denon, Marantz and Boston Acoustics New Product Showcase scheduled for May 29.
post #131 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Denon, Marantz and Boston Acoustics New Product Showcase scheduled for May 29.

I'll put that on my calendar.
post #132 of 1844
Is Denon & Marantz receiver usually release about the same time or one later than the other?
post #133 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Is Denon & Marantz receiver usually release about the same time or one later than the other?

Going forward...
The basic AVR platforms of Denon & Marantz will be shared, there will be different ID for each brand but the electrical platform will be common....
Both Denon & Marantz have lost significant $ during the last 3 years, and have now consolidated their development efforts...

Just my $0.02..
post #134 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Not really..
When the Denon features and power output specs are disclosed...
One will see there is not alot of differences between models. Denon's strategy is to sell certain retailers one model and another model to another retail segment, that way all of the retailers don't carry the same model while driving the pricing down & down..
1 model can go to the Best Buys/Magnolia and another to the Internet resellers..

Over the last 18 months, Denon's biz is off by 56% and in order to regain credibility with their distribution channels they need to protect the retailer's profit margin.. If the dealers just compete on price by carrying the same model, they will drop the brand if unable to make a reasonable profit margin..

Just my $0.02...

Its not 1972 - it's 2012. There is free flow of information and customers can not only price compare on their phone, they can even do a search and in one minute determine what models are bing disguised as what. That game is old and done. If you are unable to clarify for the customer what value your product provides, then you've got no margin and neither will your dealer. In fact its not you depending ont he dealer - the dealer is depening on you to create a product that has actual differentiable value delivered, which is what drives margin, not kids games with changing model numbers.
post #135 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7channelfreak View Post

I'll put that on my calendar.

Just watch the internet. There will be blogs (but not from me).
post #136 of 1844
Looking at Denon's competition, the recent announced Onkyo TX-NR818 model for $1199 updates Audyssey to MultEQ XT32/SubEQ HT room correction which makes the previous AVR-4311 model going for $2099 list, discounted as low as $1299 a tough sell to follow.

Expect the AVR-3313 to have XT32/SubEQ HT, as well as being slightly more powerful amp. Might even be a 9.2 model rather then a 7.2 is my guess? Assume upcoming 3313 will say it certified for 4 ohm operation also, even though current 3312 easily drives 4 ohm speakers.

So will the 4313 offer even more watts or be a 9.3 unit?

Its probably a given these new Denon xx13 will incorporate AirPlay support, rather then marketed as Airplay ready.

Expect them to advertise video processing up to 4K as this is the next trend to scale 1080P content to 4k.
post #137 of 1844
So if they're having a big launch on May 29th, will that mean products will be available in retail outlets closest to June 1st, July 1st or december 1st?
post #138 of 1844
looking low end - mid level see hdmi with 1-2 composites/components

my opinion is is this: 33xx is going to be the highend model, 4xxx, 5xxx being fazed out..

denon seems to be getting out of the pre/pro business since they have yet to release a replacement for the avpa1, and that is still stuck in 9.x domain..

so there's going to be alot more zone 2/3 avr's foating around within the nect few seasons..
post #139 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

looking low end - mid level see hdmi with 1-2 composites/components

my opinion is is this: 33xx is going to be the highend model, 4xxx, 5xxx being fazed out..

denon seems to be getting out of the pre/pro business since they have yet to release a replacement for the avpa1, and that is still stuck in 9.x domain..

so there's going to be alot more zone 2/3 avr's foating around within the nect few seasons..

Denon has a factory upgrade for this unit for 1k that gives you all the latest features including 3D passthrough..........
post #140 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamede View Post

That's reactive old school marketing, which results in higher inventory, marketing and product costs. In particular, that customer who will ditch you for 25 bucks is unlikely to be a loyal repeat customer - at least not at any price which makes you a reliable profit.

Better off defining the value better and stop trying to be all things to all people with a million price points and confusing product definition. That's half the reason the airlines bleed money - they are awful marketers and do everything NOT to create loyal customers.

I applaud the efforts of the likes of batpig, but when the customer needs to dissect a thread on an obscure web forum to understand what the products are and how the differ, it's the clearest sign that the brand owner has failed to deliver an understandable product lineup.

I wish someone would inscribe the above on a baseball bat and beat it into marketing morons until they get a clue.

E.g. Apple has three iPhone models and they sold 37 million units for $25 billion in just the last quarter.

Yes it's a comparison between apples and denons. But the point is still valid. You need to have easily understood products at a few key price points. Definitely not something where the customer needs to dissect a thread on an obscure web forum to understand what the products are and how they differ.

P.S.: to make it worse, why exactly do I need to go to a third party web site to find something like batpig's outstanding FAQ about the differences? Why doesn't Denon themselves make it clearer? Definitely reactive old school marketing.
post #141 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

looking low end - mid level see hdmi with 1-2 composites/components

my opinion is is this: 33xx is going to be the highend model, 4xxx, 5xxx being fazed out..

denon seems to be getting out of the pre/pro business since they have yet to release a replacement for the avpa1, and that is still stuck in 9.x domain..

so there's going to be alot more zone 2/3 avr's foating around within the nect few seasons..

Denon has previously reported that the 5308 and AVP are being discontinued while the 4XXX series will become the new flagship model.
post #142 of 1844
where I was comign from with avpa1 was this, it is still a 9.x processor, not 11.x


yes I know about the last upgade, for video, though I still haven't seen the 11.x upgrade have you??


the 4xxx series will eventually retired..
post #143 of 1844
I have only two questions about future Denon AVRs ...

... which model(s) will support DSD over HDMI?

... when will they decode video?
post #144 of 1844
Looks like the first vendor has posted regarding the new models ...

http://www.big-georges.com/avr2313ci.aspx

1513 ----> Picks up front HDMI
1613 ----> Picks up networking/Airplay
1713 ----> Drops back to 5.1, Zone 2 preouts
2113CI --> 4K video
2313CI --> Picks up a 2nd HDMI Out and Audyssey DSX
3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link
4520CI --> ????
post #145 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link

The Big George's page for the 3313CI references "Denon Link HD." Do we presume that this is referring to Denon Link 4th Edition? Or could it be yet another iteration of Denon Link (though, what more could it add)?

AJ
post #146 of 1844
^^
Likely just Denon Link 4th as that added the HD codec capability.
post #147 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link

that's intriguing... if it also gets xt32, the 4xxx replacement becomes a very hard sell....

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

The Big George's page for the 3313CI references "Denon Link HD." Do we presume that this is referring to Denon Link 4th Edition? Or could it be yet another iteration of Denon Link (though, what more could it add)?

AJ

hmmm... maybe it transfers at faster than the speed of light, putting the jitter issue to bed once and for all...

howaya aj? long time no post...
post #148 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Looks like the first vendor has posted regarding the new models ...

http://www.big-georges.com/avr2313ci.aspx

1513 ----> Picks up front HDMI
1613 ----> Picks up networking/Airplay
1713 ----> Drops back to 5.1, Zone 2 preouts
2313CI --> Picks up a 2nd HDMI Out and Audyssey DSX
3313CI --> Picks up a 3rd HDMI Out and Denon Link

Not much of a difference/upgrade from my 2312 and 3312.
post #149 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Likely just Denon Link 4th as that added the HD codec capability.

If Denon were to update Denon Link again, especially as a trickle down feature to lesser models, the one alteration that comes to mind would be to drop the separate RJ-45 connection and instead to carry both audio and clock over HDMI (a la Pioneer's PQLS and Sony's HATS). However, that would break backward compatibility with all existing Denon Link sources.

AJ
post #150 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

howaya aj? long time no post...

Chris, I am well, thanks.

Last fall, I had a family member disappear for 36 hours -- on my birthday, no less. While all was right in the end, the experience kept me away from the forums for a few weeks. And, after that, I just could not get back into the thick of things.

But, in the past week or so, I have been getting up to speed again, have started following the forums once more. And I am glad that I have, as I caught wind of an interesting deal. Today or tomorrow, I expect delivery of a Sherwood Newcastle R-972, a closeout from Accessories4less. I absolutely DO NOT need another AVR or pre/pro; however, for $600, I could hardly pass up the opportunity to sample Trinnov. And that is how I know that my AV enthusiasm has returned -- I jump at the chance to buy a three model year old, quasi glitchy, new but closeout AVR for its rare digital room correction system and think $600 quite the bargain.

AJ
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