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When do the 2013 Denon's come out? Any new features we should expect? - Page 42

post #1231 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post


I wonder if the Denon is including the Marvell chip, or it's something on top of their existing Anchor Bay chips.

The details of the video scaling chip in the 3313 are vague on the site. I think only Marvell provides for 4K upscaling, at this point.
post #1232 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

well, theoretically, there would still be utility if you had a 4k display. The CI models UPSCALE to 4k resolution, so in theory you don't need a 4k SOURCE to benefit, as it can take, say, a 1080p source and upscale to 4k for your fancy new 4k display.

that said, of course, the real world utility is highly questionable as it is likely that the same fancy new 4k display can just do the job itself.

Exactly. The display can handle upscaling, and probably just as good as the chips inside the receivers. It is a digital signal being passed around, after all.

Wake me up when we have a 4K source to watch.
post #1233 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

I wonder if the Denon is including the Marvell chip, or it's something on top of their existing ABT chips.

The XX11 models were the last to use the ABT chips. Denon switched over to Analog Devices last year and is using a newer AD chip in the XX13 models.
post #1234 of 1844
I don't think there is any receivers in the market using ABT (I mean new ones). are they still on business??

I don't know if anyone can comment on the differences; but is clear that Denon is going with AD all the way.
post #1235 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

I wonder if the Denon is including the Marvell chip, or it's something on top of their existing ABT chips.

note that Denon dropped the ABT chip last year with the xx12 model, they moved to a new Analog Devices video scaling chip.

the two models with video scaling last year (2312ci and 3312ci) had many users report issues with video degradation but it didn't seem to be a global problem. Home Theater Mag gave the 3312ci glowing marks for video performance, with the only "FAIL" being some high rez roll-off in Chroma Resolution (which the vast majority of receivers fail also). Notably it did fine with all deinterlacing tests so the AD chip seemed to do its job: http://www.hometheater.com/content/d...-labs-measures

I'm curious to see what chips they used in the new models. EDIT: looks like they are sticking with AD?
post #1236 of 1844
Interesting to see as well we don't have the bunch of logos showing on the front. does anyone knows the reason for this??
post #1237 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by xpidex View Post

Interesting to see as well we don't have the bunch of logos showing on the front. does anyone knows the reason for this??

Looks ugly. Yamaha at least hides theirs and im sure Denon took note of it.
post #1238 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I wouldn't be so sure yet, it still gets a checkmark for "Digital to Analog REC OUT" which implies that it can still output PCM 2.0 to analog outputs. The REC OUT usually follows the same path as ZONE 2 out. I will wait until the manual is out to confirm.

There are a number of errors on all of the various model spec pages which I have forwarded to the web manager.
post #1239 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

note that Denon dropped the ABT chip last year with the xx12 model, they moved to a new Analog Devices video scaling chip.

the two models with video scaling last year (2312ci and 3312ci) had many users report issues with video degradation but it didn't seem to be a global problem. Home Theater Mag gave the 3312ci glowing marks for video performance, with the only "FAIL" being some high rez roll-off in Chroma Resolution (which the vast majority of receivers fail also). Notably it did fine with all deinterlacing tests so the AD chip seemed to do its job: http://www.hometheater.com/content/d...-labs-measures

I'm curious to see what chips they used in the new models. EDIT: looks like they are sticking with AD?

Got it - I didn't look into the xx12 series AVRs when I switched to Denon, so I'll take your word for all of that.

Silly as it sounds, the VP is the only area where I felt I went 'backwards' by moving from last years' SC Elite to the 4311. But there's only so much you can do to clean up cable (where the ABT does a decent job on SD), and at any rate my Oppo has the Marvell QDEO to upscale DVDs, so the only loss is in cleaning up Internet streams from the Web. If you don't mind watching YouTube from the Oppo, or Web browsing from an iDevice (I stream the iPad to an ATV3 that has an A5 chip), it's no big loss ultimately.
post #1240 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The XX11 models were the last to use the ABT chips. Denon switched over to Analog Devices last year and is using a newer AD chip in the XX13 models.

Is this a good thing? EDIT: AD vs Marvell
post #1241 of 1844
^^
Didn't really see any glowing reports on last year's chips in the XX12 Owner's thread. We'll have to watch the XX13 Owner's thread to see what the "CI" model owners think of the newer AD 4K chips.
post #1242 of 1844
VHD1900 is still a hard chip to beat. Yamaha and Onkyo have had great success with it. Which version AD chip is Denon using now?
post #1243 of 1844
^^
AFAIK, last year's chips were AD's first stab at video chips used in an AVR so the newer 4K ones will be new as well.
post #1244 of 1844
4311 refurbished or 3312 new ?

upgrading from a pioneer vsx1120k
post #1245 of 1844
Found this post on Electronic House's website ...
"There are currently 2 versions of 4K, half rate and full rate. Full rate is used in Digital Theaters, while A/V products on the market that have 4K scaling' only do half rate as the current HDMI 1.4a can only pass half rate, unless you use 2 HDMI 1.4a outputs and inputs on the display. The next version of HDMI will permit full rate pass-through via a single cable."
post #1246 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Found this post on Electronic House's website ...
"There are currently 2 versions of 4K, half rate and full rate. Full rate is used in Digital Theaters, while A/V products on the market that have ‘4K scaling’ only do half rate as the current HDMI 1.4a can only pass half rate, unless you use 2 HDMI 1.4a outputs and inputs on the display. The next version of HDMI will permit full rate pass-through via a single cable."

It's like the LCD panel refresh rate increase year after year... Does it make sense to invest this early in 4k? New tv, new transport and a new avr? Up scaling as is isn't a breath taking experience compared to say 1080p content. So with 4k content coming down the pipe 3-6 years from now, our avr's should be at a higher hdmi spec supporting full rate 4k anyways with all of the bugs worked out. So far this is starting to look a lot likethe 3D roll out.

Just found this article on 4k cinema cameras. Canon hits 4k at 2012 nam

Still looks like there is still limitations based off the lenses used Because of sensor cropping. However, I not sure if Canon has a strong footing in the cinema camera market like Sony does.
post #1247 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18 View Post

4311 refurbished or 3312 new ?

upgrading from a pioneer vsx1120k

I was in exaclty the same shoes as you do. I just order my 4311 and will replace the same Pio you have.
post #1248 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by xpidex View Post

I was in exaclty the same shoes as you do. I just order my 4311 and will replace the same Pio you have.

does the 4311 has the same gui features the 3312ci has?

I'm very interested in the overlay the 3312ci does of the volume and other features, But I'm not sure if the 4311 does.

The other issue is I don't have the money to get the 4311 new (2000$) but I found the 3312 at 777 which I do have
post #1249 of 1844
^^
The 4311CI can only overlay volume/GUI on 2D video while the 3312CI can do so over both 2D and 3D. For a better price on the 4311CI (just under 2x cost of 3312CI) pick up the phone and "call" AV Science or Electronics Expo.
post #1250 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

me too, although in a smaller room...

as aggravating as it is to pay that 5 bucks a month, the price differential between the 4311 and the 4520 more than makes up for that...

and if you wanted to watch 2 different games on the 2 tv's, you'd need 2 d* boxes anyway...

if you are only ever watching the same thing on both tv's, the simultaneous dual hdmi output on the 4311 gets you what you need...

You guys may want to look at your bills. It's $6/mo receiver....
post #1251 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18 View Post

does the 4311 has the same gui features the 3312ci has?

I'm very interested in the overlay the 3312ci does of the volume and other features, But I'm not sure if the 4311 does.

The other issue is I don't have the money to get the 4311 new (2000$) but I found the 3312 at 777 which I do have

I just order it and haven't received yet./ I can assure the GUI will be better than the Pioneer.

Your budget will always dictate what way you have to go and in that case 3312 still a good runner. I was looking to see if 3313 was going to be a major improvement and I personally don't think so.

the main 2 differences I can point out between 4311 and 3312 is XT32 and amp section.
post #1252 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The 4311CI can only overlay volume/GUI on 2D video while the 3312CI can do so over both 2D and 3D. For a better price on the 4311CI (just under 2x cost of 3312CI) pick up the phone and "call" AV Science or Electronics Expo.

I don't live in the US that might make it harder to buy from a brick and mortar store if they dont ship either way I will try and see what can I get.

I do 98% of the time 2D so that works for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpidex View Post

I just order it and haven't received yet./ I can assure the GUI will be better than the Pioneer.

Your budget will always dictate what way you have to go and in that case 3312 still a good runner. I was looking to see if 3313 was going to be a major improvement and I personally don't think so.

the main 2 differences I can point out between 4311 and 3312 is XT32 and amp section.

a 3 year old drawing will be better than the joke of gui of the pioneer.

Yeah XT32 is what motivates me to get the 4311 and the comments around here that the 4311 is amazing at sound level
post #1253 of 1844
Just a thought here, but now that Denon USA has released the information on the XX13's maybe the mods should lock this thread because speculation is over (except the 4520 which is something completel different in that it doesn't end in 13)?
post #1254 of 1844
So, is HD Radio gone from the 2013 Denons? :-(
post #1255 of 1844
^^
Nah .. still carries over from the 3312CI to the 3313CI.
post #1256 of 1844
It is getting difficult to follow two threads when the other one you and batpig created is factual. I suppose with time this one will die of natural causes.
post #1257 of 1844
^^
Really? Nah. Try doing it with 20 or more threads on a regular basis!

FYI, there's a feature that will speed things up for you if you're not already aware of it ... at the beginning of every thread that you have visited there is an icon with a down arrow just before the thread title that reads "Go to first new post" which will take you to the post just after the last you previously viewed when last in that thread.
post #1258 of 1844
Yup. It isn't coordinated with my android app, though..

So if this one were locked you'd only need to follow 19 threads.
post #1259 of 1844
(Re: HD Radio)

Ok, I'll take your word for it. I just didn't see it in the feature comparisons, the feature set, or your own list of reported features. (Will you add it to the latter?) I see it now mentioned in one of the manual downloads. It looks like it also has AM Radio.

Thanks.
post #1260 of 1844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan__ View Post

(Re: HD Radio)

Ok, I'll take your word for it. I just didn't see it in the feature comparisons, the feature set, or your own list of reported features. (Will you add it to the latter?) I see it now mentioned in one of the manual downloads. It looks like it also has AM Radio.

Thanks.

They killed the AM tuner, but the HD and FM tuner is still there.
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